piratecat
Diamond
Posts: 36,022 Likes: 143,869
|
Post by piratecat on Nov 8, 2017 12:36:43 GMT -6
gimmesugar, I just bought the PLS book and joined their FB group. I am determined to figure this out.
|
|
|
Post by gimmesugar on Nov 8, 2017 13:17:42 GMT -6
gimmesugar, I just bought the PLS book and joined their FB group. I am determined to figure this out. Awesome! They are very pro-SLIP (the PLS version of CIO) with full extinction, but I think a lot of value comes from feedback and advice about scheduling, wake times, and bedtime routines. The book also has a lot of information about more gradual sleep training options called SWAPs.
|
|
|
Post by gimmesugar on Nov 8, 2017 13:56:48 GMT -6
gimmesugar, we had the four hour situation the other day and F *lost it* at night. The nanny felt so bad she offered to come over in the middle of the night to help. I'm also mostly of the opinion that it'll all work out one way or another. We are a mostly no-cry household, and that may mean training will go slowly for us *shrug* My mom didn't train at all. I'm a shit sleeper and my sister sleeps great. Both of us have full and wonderful lives. Meh. Awww! That's so sweet of her to offer! I would have been so tempted to accept 😉 Yeah, I think the bottom line is people have to do what works for them....we have friends who love bedsharing, and that's great for them but would never work for us. What sucks is when people are reactively getting into sleep situations that don't work for them or are creating unsafe situations...like moms who are afraid to drive due to lack of sleep. I'm a huge fan of using a sleep consultant like you did to help create a plan that everyone is comfortable with and can be tweaked as baby's needs change.
|
|
|
Post by marshian on Nov 8, 2017 15:23:34 GMT -6
We also struggle with daycare wake times. I remind them every few days when she goes too long. J is a chill baby so it doesn't seem to really phase her but I don't want to screw up her night sleep. On a normal day she only gets about 3-4 hours max in nap sleep so I've told them not to cap her and they don't wake her even though one teacher was tempted the day she slept 3.5 hours (the day after her 4-month vaccinations).
I'll have to start writing it on her daily intake form to not go more than 2-2.5 hours between naps.
|
|
|
Post by lastkiss on Nov 8, 2017 16:14:25 GMT -6
@uneasilyamused I think the 5 months is what is generally recommended to start CIO sleep training, which is why they recommend that using the app. I started with L around 4 months and lied about his age so it registered as 5 months.
Even at 5 months L was still only able to stay up 1-1.5 hours between naps. We're only just now transitioning to 2 hours. Again, he NEVER showed signs of being tired until it was too late so until I implemented a watch the clock schedule, he sucked. And if we miss his first window, the rest of the day sucks.
I really have to watch on the weekends because DH still likes to wait too long a d then his whole day gets thrown off.
Also, like someone else said, he usually needs a morning nap early than the rest of the day. I think right now it's about the 1.5 hour mark for his first nap.
@icedtea I'm in the no cry sleep training camp too. I wish I could but I just can't let them cry for long periods.
|
|
|
Post by lastkiss on Nov 8, 2017 16:20:49 GMT -6
piratecat when I did it I was desperate for advice. L had a couple really crappy/off days that weren't typical but I kept them in so I could see their recommendations.
|
|
cmb
Sapphire
Posts: 4,604 Likes: 9,807
|
Post by cmb on Nov 8, 2017 18:11:15 GMT -6
For those struggling to disassociate feeding from sleep- you don’t HAVE to stop feeding at bedtime. Sleep training can still work with rocking and feeding at bed time
-signed the mom who still did/does it and has sleep trained
|
|
piratecat
Diamond
Posts: 36,022 Likes: 143,869
|
Post by piratecat on Nov 8, 2017 19:21:27 GMT -6
He had a rough day at daycare with naps ranging from 20 to 40 minutes. SO MUCH CRYING at bedtime.
|
|
cmb
Sapphire
Posts: 4,604 Likes: 9,807
|
Post by cmb on Nov 8, 2017 19:48:39 GMT -6
He had a rough day at daycare with naps ranging from 20 to 40 minutes. SO MUCH CRYING at bedtime. Do you have anything that vibrates that you can hold on his back or bum? For some reason, using the massager on the back for a few minutes would calm both of mine
|
|
|
Post by gimmesugar on Nov 8, 2017 20:12:06 GMT -6
For those struggling to disassociate feeding from sleep- you don’t HAVE to stop feeding at bedtime. Sleep training can still work with rocking and feeding at bed time -signed the mom who still did/does it and has sleep trained ^^Totally true. I disassociated it just in case. Basically, you know you have a sleep association problem if the ONLY thing that gets baby back to sleep quickly in the MOTN is [insert activity here]. Some babies can be even be fed completely to sleep without any issues 🤷🏻♀️ Random note: Normal feeding times are a different thing. Night weaning is a totally separate activity from sleep training. Right now, I'm letting DS take the lead on dropping feeds. I just don't know if I'm emotionally ready to drop all night feeds because I like the cuddles.
|
|
piratecat
Diamond
Posts: 36,022 Likes: 143,869
|
Post by piratecat on Nov 8, 2017 20:17:53 GMT -6
He had a rough day at daycare with naps ranging from 20 to 40 minutes. SO MUCH CRYING at bedtime. Do you have anything that vibrates that you can hold on his back or bum? For some reason, using the massager on the back for a few minutes would calm both of mine Oh interesting! He did like the vibration on the RnP. I don't have a massager but I may need to get one! ETA: The crying mostly ends when my H takes over. Do I just let him handle bedtime?
|
|
|
Post by gimmesugar on Nov 8, 2017 20:43:06 GMT -6
piratecat That's what we did for a bit as we changed things up. Not sure why that works sometimes. After a couple of weeks H doing bedtime exclusively, we've been able to switch off again.
|
|
piratecat
Diamond
Posts: 36,022 Likes: 143,869
|
Post by piratecat on Nov 10, 2017 5:55:17 GMT -6
Holy smokes you guys. I had to put the pacifier back in a few times but he slept from 7:30 to 2:30 nursed once and is still asleep! I hope it's not a fluke...
So this pacifier, he'll be able to give it up before it's too late, right? I haven't created a monster?
|
|
cmb
Sapphire
Posts: 4,604 Likes: 9,807
|
Post by cmb on Nov 10, 2017 8:59:30 GMT -6
Holy smokes you guys. I had to put the pacifier back in a few times but he slept from 7:30 to 2:30 nursed once and is still asleep! I hope it's not a fluke... So this pacifier, he'll be able to give it up before it's too late, right? I haven't created a monster? Yes, no kids go to kindergarten with their pacifiers
|
|
|
Post by marshian on Nov 10, 2017 11:47:26 GMT -6
Holy smokes you guys. I had to put the pacifier back in a few times but he slept from 7:30 to 2:30 nursed once and is still asleep! I hope it's not a fluke... So this pacifier, he'll be able to give it up before it's too late, right? I haven't created a monster? Nice! We're keeping the pacifier for now too. She's on the young side for self-soothing so we wanted her to have a tool.
|
|
|
Post by lupincat on Nov 11, 2017 9:34:45 GMT -6
Holy smokes you guys. I had to put the pacifier back in a few times but he slept from 7:30 to 2:30 nursed once and is still asleep! I hope it's not a fluke... So this pacifier, he'll be able to give it up before it's too late, right? I haven't created a monster? Definitely not too late. The pacifier is my best friend, you can pry it out of my cold dead hands.
|
|
|
Post by lupincat on Nov 11, 2017 10:51:37 GMT -6
Definitely not too late. The pacifier is my best friend, you can pry it out of my cold dead hands. I just said the bolded recently. I agree with cmb, you'll be able to get rid of it eventually. F loves her wubba and I'm leaving it till I absolutely need to get rid of it. My sister sucked her thumb and my mom asked the doctor if that's why she was getting a bunch of sore throats or something. He said "Maybe. What do you think, should we cut it off?" Yeah I'm very 🤷🏻♀️ on the pacifier. We're just now night weaning the two year old from it. If the doctor isn't concerned then KOKO is my motto!
|
|
cmb
Sapphire
Posts: 4,604 Likes: 9,807
|
Post by cmb on Nov 11, 2017 15:07:11 GMT -6
You can take away a pacifier when it’s an issue... you can’t take away the thumb!
|
|
cmb
Sapphire
Posts: 4,604 Likes: 9,807
|
Post by cmb on Nov 11, 2017 15:08:46 GMT -6
Do you have anything that vibrates that you can hold on his back or bum? For some reason, using the massager on the back for a few minutes would calm both of mine Oh interesting! He did like the vibration on the RnP. I don't have a massager but I may need to get one! ETA: The crying mostly ends when my H takes over. Do I just let him handle bedtime? I would FWIW, other than a few times here and there, DS1 refuses to let my H put him down despite us switching back and forth when he was little. A preference is totally common
|
|
piratecat
Diamond
Posts: 36,022 Likes: 143,869
|
Post by piratecat on Nov 14, 2017 7:48:48 GMT -6
@icedtea , yay!
We are making progress!
He is doing well with bedtime. We've always rocked him to sleep so we just continued doing that to get him drowsy before laying him down but once we stopped rocking the crying stopped. We just sit him on the side sleeper and read books and play with stuffed animals before laying him down to sing a few songs and that has been going so much better. ETA: So much better as in it took all of 20 minutes for bed time and he fell asleep on his own after I left the room two nights in a row so no CIO or Ferber for us (at least for now), which makes me so happy.
We've had a bunch of nights of just one or two wake ups (although last night wasn't great) and only one feeding so that's big.
Everything we've talked about in this thread has been so helpful and I'm learning a lot from the Precious Little Sleep book. Thanks everyone!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2017 9:35:00 GMT -6
Still in sleep hell here. I've been more diligent about naps, but it hasn't helped the night sleep at all. I'm just hoping once he's out of this 4th leap, he'll be better. At least go back to how he did sleep before. It wasn't great, but it wasn't every hour wake ups.
|
|
piratecat
Diamond
Posts: 36,022 Likes: 143,869
|
Post by piratecat on Nov 14, 2017 9:43:59 GMT -6
@easilyunamused, hang in there! It's got to get better, right??
@icedtea, we had to skip or delay a few naps while we were visiting my family this weekend and while it doesn't seem to affect his night time sleep too badly, he was downright wild when he was overtired and overstimulated. We were out at a restaurant with friends (and he hadn't napped in the car on the way there like I had hoped) and he was making the weirdest loudest noises. Like he's not fussing or crying but just SO LOUD. I kept nursing him to keep him quiet and he finally passed out in my arms.
He also surprised me by napping well not in a swing at my parents' so I think we are done with swings.
|
|
|
Post by marshian on Nov 14, 2017 15:47:53 GMT -6
I never reported back. We started last Sunday with a modified Ferber. If you follow PLS, we did FIO with 5-minute checks. We'd go in if she escalated to super upset before the 5 minutes were up, though. By Night 4 she was going to sleep on her own. Just doing a weird wakeup at about an hour after bedtime where we soothed for a quick second and she was back out. Only once in the 4 nights since then has she needed checks, and it was only 3 checks (15 minutes).
She does have her pacifier but half the time it falls out after she's asleep and she seems to be fine. When it's a problem we'll wean from it.
We're very impressed with her!
Now waiting to see if she drops a MOTN feed on her own in the next few weeks. If not and she's gaining well at her 6-month appointment, I'm going to wean one because getting up every 2-2.5 hours after her 11/12am meal is brutal.
|
|
piratecat
Diamond
Posts: 36,022 Likes: 143,869
|
Post by piratecat on Nov 15, 2017 7:59:50 GMT -6
marshian, that's great! Before J started sleeping longer stretches this past week, he was waking 4-5 times a night and I was feeding him every time he woke up. Then he suddenly slept for 6+ hours and only woke up once so clearly he didn't need all of those feedings (which I had suspected). Now he either wakes up just once and I'll feed him or if he wakes up more than that he is able to fall back asleep without nursing if I give him a pacifier and pat him to help settle him down. But we had already gotten the okay from his pediatrician to wean him off of at least some of his night feedings.
|
|
|
Post by marshian on Nov 15, 2017 10:37:44 GMT -6
piratecat - Last night she fussed only 3.5 hours after bedtime so H attempted to soothe. Two tries and she slept until 1:40 (vs 11/12am)! She's gone 8 hours 3x randomly, so we know she can, I just am not comfortable holding back meals when she's still on the small side. I'm considering weighing her at the ped's office when she hits 5 months and if she's gained or stayed on her curve then trying to wean one night feed.
|
|
piratecat
Diamond
Posts: 36,022 Likes: 143,869
|
Post by piratecat on Nov 15, 2017 11:55:08 GMT -6
marshian, I miss going to the breastfeeding support group to get J weighed every week during maternity leave. I would do that instead of paying to get him weighed at the doctor's office, although it would require taking a couple hours off of work.
|
|
piratecat
Diamond
Posts: 36,022 Likes: 143,869
|
Post by piratecat on Nov 16, 2017 19:54:03 GMT -6
@icedtea I don’t pick him up but I would if he was actually crying. I just put the pacifier back in and put my hand on his chest with some pressure and that usually does the trick.
|
|
|
Post by gimmesugar on Nov 16, 2017 21:31:13 GMT -6
@icedtea Is F in the crib? My husband would jiggle the bassinet or crib, shush, put his hand on DS's chest, hold his hand, and rub his hand over his forehead to help him close his eyes. Obviously, not all at once lol. Picking up DS was always his last resort, and it usually never came to that. We also used the pacifier.
ETA: DH handled non-feeding soothing so that DS wouldn't smell me.
|
|
|
Post by gimmesugar on Nov 17, 2017 19:39:34 GMT -6
@icedtea Oh I knooooow. You're so tired and you know that feeding is the quickest way to go back to sleep. I'm always like, "Well, he seemed to eat for 2 fewer minutes before bed, so maybe he's hungry?!?!?!"
|
|
piratecat
Diamond
Posts: 36,022 Likes: 143,869
|
Post by piratecat on Nov 18, 2017 7:42:39 GMT -6
The past few nights have been rough, maybe due to teething but who knows. I put J down for a nap in the crib and am watching him on the monitor rotating himself round and round - he’s almost at 450 degrees so far.
|
|