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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jun 6, 2023 10:19:39 GMT -6
When Jill clarified that some public schools brain wash children, I just felt sorry for her. Ahes still got so, so much to work through and I doubt she ever will The absolutely struck me as weird. But, I'm giving her a pass. I can't imagine the verbal vomit that would come out of my awkward mouth if I were in her position. And I do think she is working on things. I do believe she is in REAL therapy. For someone like Jill, who was raised and (what I would consider) brainwashed for roughly two decades to believe truth = lies and lies = truth with their Church of Cult beliefs and teachings and then you add in the sexual abuse where it was her and her sisters' faults for enticing inmate in the first place, watching it get swept under the rug and inmate goes off to DC like the golden boy he was deemed to be, neither she nor her sisters get any therapy for their trauma but, instead, are made to help sweep it under the rug and when it's outed publicly, forced to minimize the truth and defend their abuser, I mean, it is any wonder she is who she is today? Experiencing CSAB alone is a lot to unpack - it took me years in therapy to even admit that it had happened as I had compartmentalized it to the extent I could make myself believe it never happened (as who wants to be someone's victim and in my case, I was abused by more than one person) let alone recognize that it had happened many times and the full extent, that it was wrong on the part of my abusers, and that I had done nothing to deserve it or cause it or feel ashamed of. Jill has only recently gotten what I would consider real therapy. Add in all of the other layers of false teachings, inclusive of slut-shaming and punishments rebranded as "encouragements" and honestly, it will take a lifetime likely for her to unpack all of that. Which is not to say she doesn't have problematic views along with her husband but the baby steps she has taken thus far, including being a participant in this documentary and upcoming book where she not only calls out Gothard/IBLP but her own family, are huge for someone like her.
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Post by unicornofthesea on Jun 6, 2023 11:09:01 GMT -6
To start my own conspiracy theory….I feel sketched out by the grandma drowning. 🙊
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willow
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Post by willow on Jun 6, 2023 11:49:23 GMT -6
MelanieCarmichael I absolutely agree with everything you've said. Especially the part about her being gaslit about the reality of her own abuse for most of her life. Hell, I grew up in a supportive, loving house and it has been 7 years since I've been in an abusive relationship and I am STILL finding myself making excuses and downplaying parts of it because of how my reality was warped by my abuser. It's so fucked. I am not at all surprised with the views that Jill might still hold. To which I say, again, let's give these women time. They're in their 20s (early 30s?) still. They have so much time to learn and continue to grow if they choose, now that they are 'out'.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jun 6, 2023 12:35:39 GMT -6
MelanieCarmichael I absolutely agree with everything you've said. Especially the part about her being gaslit about the reality of her own abuse for most of her life. Hell, I grew up in a supportive, loving house and it has been 7 years since I've been in an abusive relationship and I am STILL finding myself making excuses and downplaying parts of it because of how my reality was warped by my abuser. It's so fucked. I am not at all surprised with the views that Jill might still hold. To which I say, again, let's give these women time. They're in their 20s (early 30s?) still. They have so much time to learn and continue to grow if they choose, now that they are 'out'. Nodding to all of this emphatically. At least I, on some level, knew what was happening to me and had happened was wrong, Jill and her siblings and inmate's other victims (and I'll always believe the total, five, was just the tip of the iceberg) were made to feel they were in the wrong, that they caused it, and that "it" wasn't even that bad (the whole BS about mild touching over clothing and while they were asleep). Joy, who was five at the time, didn't even know what happened to her for certain until she attended Josh's trial last year. I can't imagine the mindfuckery of that? Having memories as a five-year-old and being told none of it was real and no choice but to believe. I want to see who Jill, Jinger, Jessa, and Joy become in the next decade or several decades if that is what it takes. I have the most hope for Jill but as long as there is life, there is hope.
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Post by miawallace on Jun 6, 2023 12:52:14 GMT -6
I wouldn’t hold my breathe for anyone straying from the conservative spectrum. Tops - I can see them maybe heading towards mega church non-denominational, but still very much politically conservative.
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Post by Nonniedee on Jun 7, 2023 4:03:06 GMT -6
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willow
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Post by willow on Jun 7, 2023 11:58:37 GMT -6
I get that editing is necessary but that was a shitty way to edit that for her. I mean it wasn't a perfect response but better than what was shown. I am catching up on the doc now. I have heard about blanket training many times and it never doesn't horrify me. There is something so sinister about that kind of abuse where it is framed as positive training vs an abusive parent who hits their kid out of anger.
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sterling
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Post by sterling on Jun 7, 2023 12:07:22 GMT -6
I get that editing is necessary but that was a shitty way to edit that for her. I mean it wasn't a perfect response but better than what was shown. I am catching up on the doc now. I have heard about blanket training many times and it never doesn't horrify me. There is something so sinister about that kind of abuse where it is framed as positive training vs an abusive parent who hits their kid out of anger. The whole fucking parenting approach to obey obey obey is just so horrifying. I want my kids to listen and man do they push it sometimes, but them asking why is an asset in the long run, not a liability. Trying to remove that from these kids who are born with curiosity and innocence is so heartbreaking.
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willow
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Post by willow on Jun 7, 2023 12:08:36 GMT -6
I'm also still waiting for at least one Duggar to identify as part of the LGBTQ+ community. Given how some of the older children are already leaving the cult, I have to believe it is coming at some point. 19 children there is no way that they are all fully cishet.
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willow
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Post by willow on Jun 7, 2023 12:11:49 GMT -6
I get that editing is necessary but that was a shitty way to edit that for her. I mean it wasn't a perfect response but better than what was shown. I am catching up on the doc now. I have heard about blanket training many times and it never doesn't horrify me. There is something so sinister about that kind of abuse where it is framed as positive training vs an abusive parent who hits their kid out of anger. The whole fucking parenting approach to obey obey obey is just so horrifying. I want my kids to listen and man do they push it sometimes, but them asking why is an asset in the long run, not a liability. Trying to remove that from these kids who are born with curiosity and innocence is so heartbreaking. It's awful. In Jinger's book she talks about how deeply fucked up her brain was and how hard it was for her to have even moderately unacceptable thoughts about things super benign because she was so terrified of disobeying the "Umbrella of authority".
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Post by miawallace on Jun 7, 2023 12:57:54 GMT -6
I'm also still waiting for at least one Duggar to identify as part of the LGBTQ+ community. Given how some of the older children are already leaving the cult, I have to believe it is coming at some point. 19 children there is no way that they are all fully cishet. Okay so the fundie and Duggar Reddit people constantly post that Josiah could be gay and Jana as well. I don’t like the who is gay who isn’t gay game so I just mostly roll my eyes. They think bc he’s got certain mannerisms. It’s stupid but he’s one of the Duggar kids that gets discussed a lot with regards to that. Jana does too. People claim upon a time josiah was sent to a “men’s mentoring” program run by Lauren’s dad (his wife). It’s like a gay conversion ministry. Her dad gets a lot of talk of being gay too. I need to spiral on this bc I don’t know just relaying what people say. It’s also believed Lauren was sent there. So they think they were both set up by her father and JB bc of their tendencies. Who knows how these people know these things.
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willow
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Post by willow on Jun 7, 2023 13:00:23 GMT -6
I'm also still waiting for at least one Duggar to identify as part of the LGBTQ+ community. Given how some of the older children are already leaving the cult, I have to believe it is coming at some point. 19 children there is no way that they are all fully cishet. Okay so the fundie and Duggar Reddit people constantly post that Josiah could be gay and Jana as well. I don’t like the who is gay who isn’t gay game so I just mostly roll my eyes. They think bc he’s got certain mannerisms. It’s stupid but it’s one of the Duggar kids that gets discussed a lot with regards to that. Jana does too. People claim upon a time josiah was sent to a “men’s mentoring” program run by Lauren’s dad (his wife). It’s like a gay conversion ministry. Her dad gets a lot of talk of being gay too. I need to spiral on this bc I don’t know just relaying what people say. It’s also believed Lauren was sent there. So they think they were both set up by her father and JB bc of their tendencies. Who knows how these people know these things. Interesting. I totally agree about not obsessing over who is gay or not etc because it's gross. I just was more speaking in general terms that I find it highly unlikely that all those kids would be fully straight. I hope whoever they might be, that some day they can feel safe enough to leave and live themselves authentically.
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Post by miawallace on Jun 7, 2023 13:07:29 GMT -6
Okay so the fundie and Duggar Reddit people constantly post that Josiah could be gay and Jana as well. I don’t like the who is gay who isn’t gay game so I just mostly roll my eyes. They think bc he’s got certain mannerisms. It’s stupid but it’s one of the Duggar kids that gets discussed a lot with regards to that. Jana does too. People claim upon a time josiah was sent to a “men’s mentoring” program run by Lauren’s dad (his wife). It’s like a gay conversion ministry. Her dad gets a lot of talk of being gay too. I need to spiral on this bc I don’t know just relaying what people say. It’s also believed Lauren was sent there. So they think they were both set up by her father and JB bc of their tendencies. Who knows how these people know these things. Interesting. I totally agree about not obsessing over who is gay or not etc because it's gross. I just was more speaking in general terms that I find it highly unlikely that all those kids would be fully straight. I hope whoever they might be, that some day they can feel safe enough to leave and live themselves authentically. I was mostly saying bc those Reddit’s can get really dumb with how they talk about alleged people’s sexuality - nothing you said. Just wanted to clear that up. People claim Jana has had 2 private courtships that may or may not have been terminated bc of JB. But she’s another one people assume is not straight. As to your last point, never. These kids have no hope of coming out. Better be married and repress than excommunicated and alone with no monies or education. I have a soft spot for Josiah bc he really seems like a sweet husband. The way he cared for Lauren at her delivery was amazing. I’m sad for him.
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claudia
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Post by claudia on Jun 8, 2023 7:09:25 GMT -6
I get that editing is necessary but that was a shitty way to edit that for her. I mean it wasn't a perfect response but better than what was shown. I am catching up on the doc now. I have heard about blanket training many times and it never doesn't horrify me. There is something so sinister about that kind of abuse where it is framed as positive training vs an abusive parent who hits their kid out of anger. The part where the one lady talked about how she had to keep spanking her one kid over and over because their behavior was a "shame to their mother" and then the next sentence revealed he was 14 months?!? I mean, not okay at any age, but seriously, they look at a 14 month who is showing natural curiosity as a "shame to his mother?" Ugh. I have relatives who aren't fundy but kinda close to it, but that still absolutely shocked me.
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Post by ♪♫choppinbroccoli♫♪ on Jun 8, 2023 8:26:28 GMT -6
I'm glad they addressed Michelle's annoying voice. I knew from day one something wasn't right with how calm she seemed with all those kids... And I didn't even have kids back then. It's sickening that JB was going to wait until marriage certs were signed before telling them about Josh's horrible stuff. I hate them. I do love Amys husband though😂 I want him to do a tell all from what he knows... He seems like he would hold nothing back. Amy’s husband got on my nerves. 🙈 I was like omg stop being annoying and interrupting your wife who knows what she’s talking about. People talk about their banter but I was annoyed by him. I kind of feel confused as to why he’s there. To show off his pocket square.
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Post by ♪♫choppinbroccoli♫♪ on Jun 8, 2023 8:43:24 GMT -6
I still have the last episode to watch, but it has felt like I am watching a variation of Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey. So many similarities.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jun 8, 2023 9:13:21 GMT -6
I get that editing is necessary but that was a shitty way to edit that for her. I mean it wasn't a perfect response but better than what was shown. I am catching up on the doc now. I have heard about blanket training many times and it never doesn't horrify me. There is something so sinister about that kind of abuse where it is framed as positive training vs an abusive parent who hits their kid out of anger. The part where the one lady talked about how she had to keep spanking her one kid over and over because their behavior was a "shame to their mother" and then the next sentence revealed he was 14 months?!? I mean, not okay at any age, but seriously, they look at a 14 month who is showing natural curiosity as a "shame to his mother?" Ugh. I have relatives who aren't fundy but kinda close to it, but that still absolutely shocked me. So effed up. Just like blanket training where they purposefully put something a baby or young child would gravitate to, just so they can hit them for attempting to move off the blanket to touch it.
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Post by Hotcoconuts82 on Jun 8, 2023 9:43:19 GMT -6
I get that editing is necessary but that was a shitty way to edit that for her. I mean it wasn't a perfect response but better than what was shown. I am catching up on the doc now. I have heard about blanket training many times and it never doesn't horrify me. There is something so sinister about that kind of abuse where it is framed as positive training vs an abusive parent who hits their kid out of anger. The part where the one lady talked about how she had to keep spanking her one kid over and over because their behavior was a "shame to their mother" and then the next sentence revealed he was 14 months?!? I mean, not okay at any age, but seriously, they look at a 14 month who is showing natural curiosity as a "shame to his mother?" Ugh. I have relatives who aren't fundy but kinda close to it, but that still absolutely shocked me. My jaw dropped. Do these people even like kids or are they just having them for the sake of having "arrows".
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willow
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Post by willow on Jun 8, 2023 10:14:58 GMT -6
Re: the comments about Jill not speaking out as much against the IBLP etc in the documentary...I also wonder if she is holding back because she wants to discuss everything in her book. Which I mean, is fair. She's done so much without getting a cent of money and this book is her opportunity to make her own payout from all of this. I mean yes the documentary paid them, but if I were her I'd want to save all that for the book.
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Post by wildflower on Jun 8, 2023 10:34:09 GMT -6
The part where the one lady talked about how she had to keep spanking her one kid over and over because their behavior was a "shame to their mother" and then the next sentence revealed he was 14 months?!? I mean, not okay at any age, but seriously, they look at a 14 month who is showing natural curiosity as a "shame to his mother?" Ugh. I have relatives who aren't fundy but kinda close to it, but that still absolutely shocked me. My jaw dropped. Do these people even like kids or are they just having them for the sake of having "arrows". Many don't like kids. But they are commanded to have them, so they do. Many do like babies but the interest stops when they get to be toddlers.
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Post by wildflower on Jun 8, 2023 10:35:12 GMT -6
Also, hi. I haven't watched Happy Shiny People and I don't think I can/will. But I'm nodding along here. While my family was not as far gone as IBLP, there are a zillion similarities.
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Post by beesquared on Jun 8, 2023 14:06:08 GMT -6
I had mostly been able to avoid the specifics of Josh Duggar's online crimes, but hearing about what they found seems so tied up into the abuse he suffered/witnessed at home. This doesn't excuse his behavior at all, but these kids have been failed at every turn when they needed help. There is so much generational abuse and dysfunction that it feels overwhelming for anyone to recover and break free.
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Dr. Cox
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Post by Dr. Cox on Jun 8, 2023 15:16:19 GMT -6
I’m glad I watched SHP, but it was triggering for sure, and I wasn’t nearly as fundie as the Duggars. Anyway, I wished I still believed in hell because Jim Bob and Michelle deserve it.
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Post by lifesaverz on Jun 8, 2023 16:57:23 GMT -6
Re: the comments about Jill not speaking out as much against the IBLP etc in the documentary...I also wonder if she is holding back because she wants to discuss everything in her book. Which I mean, is fair. She's done so much without getting a cent of money and this book is her opportunity to make her own payout from all of this. I mean yes the documentary paid them, but if I were her I'd want to save all that for the book. Yeah I wondering that too.
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Post by heathen on Jun 28, 2023 16:16:57 GMT -6
I just saw Jimbobs uncle died only 2 hours before police showed for an investigation. Why are they being investigated again? Who was it that found the grandma drowning sketchy? It's very strange unicornofthesea
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Post by donnamartingraduates on Jun 28, 2023 16:22:08 GMT -6
I just saw Jimbobs uncle died only 2 hours before police showed for an investigation. Why are they being investigated again? Who was it that found the grandma drowning sketchy? It's very strange unicornofthesea He also has a husband, I didn't know the Duggars had out relatives.
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Post by donnamartingraduates on Jun 28, 2023 18:11:04 GMT -6
Amy Duggar King said on The Today show that she learned about Josh's assaults on the news like everyone else in 2015 and that she confronted him. She claims he told her he knew better than to try to touch her inappropriately and indicated he touched the ones he did based on believing they wouldn't talk/tell.
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Post by Hotcoconuts82 on Jun 28, 2023 18:25:29 GMT -6
Amy Duggar King said on The Today show that she learned about Josh's assaults on the news like everyone else in 2015 and that she confronted him. She claims he told her he knew better than to try to touch her inappropriately and indicated he touched the ones he did based on believing they wouldn't talk/tell. Well he got Jill all wrong. Asshole.
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Post by mrsweasley on Jun 28, 2023 23:04:02 GMT -6
I just saw Jimbobs uncle died only 2 hours before police showed for an investigation. Why are they being investigated again? Who was it that found the grandma drowning sketchy? It's very strange unicornofthesea The investigation seems pretty hush hush. Allegedly this was a follow up to a previous incident, also unreported/not elaborated on
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trueblue
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Post by trueblue on Jun 29, 2023 9:33:18 GMT -6
I just saw Jimbobs uncle died only 2 hours before police showed for an investigation. Why are they being investigated again? Who was it that found the grandma drowning sketchy? It's very strange unicornofthesea He also has a husband, I didn't know the Duggars had out relatives. I caught a tiktok on this, apparently the police were there to inform the Duggars of the death (which is odd unless the Uncle and his partner never officially married making Jimbo the legal next of kin?), Ben is officiating the funeral, and apparently one of Michelle’s relatives is also out.
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