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Post by miawallace on Jun 3, 2023 11:27:34 GMT -6
Pretty much snip I'm a 1. It still blows my mind whenever you talk about growing up like this. The first person in my life who heard my story and was like 😲 was my husband. He grew up with zero church. Some Jewish relatives but for the most part, zero church and religion. He was such a good friend to me. He sat there and listened and then he’s like, “you know none of this is normal right?” After that talk I never went back to church on any capacity. Like not even Sunday service. I was done. I think there needs to be a doc about the Hispanic side of religious and cultish behavior.
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Post by frantastic on Jun 3, 2023 12:09:27 GMT -6
This made me do a double take and I had to SS it. I’m probably reading too much into it, but a Duggar not only following Biden, but liking a post?!? Quoting myself to resurrect this post—I think their views have definitely evolved, based on this ^^^^, but Derrick has never apologized for the transphobic shit with Jazz Jennings.
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Post by frantastic on Jun 3, 2023 12:11:35 GMT -6
I watched all 4 yesterday. No major new info for me, but he fact that JB admitted to the Holts that he wasn't going to disclose the SA until after their kids had married had me like 🤬🤯
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Post by miawallace on Jun 3, 2023 12:28:39 GMT -6
I forgot to mention two things. The doc was a lot to take on so I forgot some stuff.
1. I’m glad they mention the racism behind why white evangelicals are seeking to homeschool their kids. As an aside, the pro-life movement we see today started during the school integration time of our country. So lots of this community is tied to racism.
2. It address why it’s hard and will be hard for Anna to leave. We’ve talked about it here, but yeah.
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Post by lifesaverz on Jun 3, 2023 13:43:52 GMT -6
I just finished the doc. I think I was hoping to hear a little more from Jill, but found her part pretty small overall. For example, when they were talking about the use of physical punishment in the family, Amy was the one who confirmed that happening to them, not Jill. I feel like Amy is in a better position to be able to more freely say more, where I'm guessing Jill doesn't want to go too hard directly against her family, & lose relationships potentially with her siblings. She talked mostly about the money side, of not getting paid for the show, which we already know, & she talked about some of the stuff with Josh as well, along with general IBLP dynamics. I feel like the other people in the doc were able to be a lot more specific. I already knew most of it, but it was interesting to hear from specific people who experienced it.
Some of it was hard to watch. The way the belief system was the perfect grooming in a way for predators, & how there was no way for victims to be able to speak up for themselves is so sad. The push for obedience above all else, smiling & having the meek & mild voice & behaviors, & basically don't look unhappy or disagree or speak up for yourself really lends itself to people being preyed upon with no way out. I'm proud of the people who spoke out, & so sad they had to go through that. It almost seems like the teachings erase you being yourself, & implants an obedient robot brain instead, & some of it seemed like psychological torture. I feel for all those still stuck in that, including the younger Duggar kids.
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Post by unicornofthesea on Jun 3, 2023 20:41:54 GMT -6
I'm glad they addressed Michelle's annoying voice. I knew from day one something wasn't right with how calm she seemed with all those kids... And I didn't even have kids back then.
It's sickening that JB was going to wait until marriage certs were signed before telling them about Josh's horrible stuff. I hate them.
I do love Amys husband though😂 I want him to do a tell all from what he knows... He seems like he would hold nothing back.
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armpants
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Post by armpants on Jun 3, 2023 21:39:48 GMT -6
I'm just starting episode 2. I was raised conservative Southern Baptist, but nowhere near this level.
I think it's easier for Amy to speak more openly than Jill. Amy is talking about what she saw, for Jill it is her lived experience. I'm glad Jill is speaking out at all. I hope she continues to grow and hopefully is getting therapy to help deal with all that she's been through.
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Radley
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Post by Radley on Jun 3, 2023 22:42:08 GMT -6
I was raised very conservative baptist. My parents where much more strict than the other kids parents in the baptist church. Always long skirts, lose clothing, long hair, neutral nail polish, no dating and so on. And I still can't grasp all that is the Gothard cult. The physical abuse of infants/toddlers, hiding sexual abuse, the weird Duggar women voices. Its just so much more intense, so deeply cultish. Putting one man's teaching above common decency and morality is mind boggling.
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Post by miawallace on Jun 3, 2023 23:13:11 GMT -6
I'm glad they addressed Michelle's annoying voice. I knew from day one something wasn't right with how calm she seemed with all those kids... And I didn't even have kids back then. It's sickening that JB was going to wait until marriage certs were signed before telling them about Josh's horrible stuff. I hate them. I do love Amys husband though😂 I want him to do a tell all from what he knows... He seems like he would hold nothing back. Amy’s husband got on my nerves. 🙈 I was like omg stop being annoying and interrupting your wife who knows what she’s talking about. People talk about their banter but I was annoyed by him. I kind of feel confused as to why he’s there.
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mapleme
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Post by mapleme on Jun 4, 2023 8:40:43 GMT -6
Obviously so much worse stuff was discussed, but the blanket training really got to me. Physically abusing babies for just being babies. It is totally impossible to unwind your brain and yourself from training that starts that early.
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mapleme
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Post by mapleme on Jun 4, 2023 8:44:35 GMT -6
Did Jill speak out against IBLP at all? She spoke against her family and she spoke *about* IBLP, but I don't remember her speaking against IBLP as the ex-IBLP folks did. I don't understand how someone can turn against IBLP without also turning against the Republican party. Post-Trump there really isn't much of the Republican party that isn't touched by IBLP ideas.
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claudia
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Post by claudia on Jun 4, 2023 9:52:40 GMT -6
I'm glad they addressed Michelle's annoying voice. I knew from day one something wasn't right with how calm she seemed with all those kids... And I didn't even have kids back then. It's sickening that JB was going to wait until marriage certs were signed before telling them about Josh's horrible stuff. I hate them. I do love Amys husband though😂 I want him to do a tell all from what he knows... He seems like he would hold nothing back. Amy’s husband got on my nerves. 🙈 I was like omg stop being annoying and interrupting your wife who knows what she’s talking about. People talk about their banter but I was annoyed by him. I kind of feel confused as to why he’s there. I’m only two episodes in and I’ve wanted him to shut up multiple times.
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Post by Hotcoconuts82 on Jun 4, 2023 10:18:09 GMT -6
It's clear that Jill still has a lot to work through (the Josh abuse). I wonder if she is fixated on the documents coming because it's easier than focusing the actual abuse. Her parents did her so wrong by making those girls go on record forgiving Josh.
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Post by Nonniedee on Jun 4, 2023 10:35:45 GMT -6
It's clear that Jill still has a lot to work through (the Josh abuse). I wonder if she is fixated on the documents coming because it's easier than focusing the actual abuse. Her parents did her so wrong by making those girls go on record forgiving Josh. That was the hard part, for me. It’s clear that she’s still very traumatized. I can’t help but be proud of her for going to that trial, prepared to testify, terrified and all.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jun 4, 2023 10:45:11 GMT -6
I’ve watched the first two episodes but needed some space after the second one.
I cannot stop thinking about that poor little boy, now a man, who was used for the hitting demonstration because let’s call spanking what it is - hitting. How humiliating that had to have been while the hundreds in the audience, his parents presumably included, laughed and laughed. The old guy’s hand lingering on his butt. Forced to hug him not once but twice. The woman who abused her 14 month old baby to break her will “all day long.”
I know Amy gets a bad rap on SM as Famy but I really liked her here. Her obvious heartbreak when she admitted to knowing her cousins were being hit and what “encouragement” entailed. I don’t find her husband obnoxious and I’m thinking they interrupt each other as couples do from time to time. Dillion making fun of Mechelle’s baby voice ( and that it’s not her real voice) made me like him a lot.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jun 4, 2023 11:02:40 GMT -6
It broke my heart to watch Jill, even as I was proud of her for being brave enough to participate in a documentary just as she was braved in attending the last day of the trial, prepared to take the stand against her abuser, former golden child eldest brother, whom I'm only referring to as inmate. I understand why she participated, even if she didn't want to, because she wanted to control the narrative to the extent one can, for once in her life. The documentary vs that awful MK interview where she and Jessa were paraded out to defend inmate and minimize his actions. There are just so many layers to unpack with Jill - being raised in a family like that, with parents who followed a cult and its teachings to the letter and went out to find more cult recruits. Where her main education was how to being subservient and what slut-shaming was. Where things like "blanket training" and "encouragement" beatings happened to her and her siblings on the regular. Where she was made to feel guilty and ashamed and to blame for enticing inmate and I was crying even as I was cheering her when it was revealed that she was the one to attempt to fight back and struck him and was the one to go to their parents, for all the good that did. As a fellow CSAB survivor, I could relate to so much of what she experienced in terms of the abuse and I thankfully didn't have the other layers on top of that with that nightmare of a family and cult religion. When she ended episode 2 by stressing the why of her participation, in that she wanted to ensure that this kind of thing never happens again, I was proud of her all over again, even if I have issues with her obviously problematic beliefs. I liked that Derek was there for moral support, speaking on her behalf with her permission when she was too overcome to speak. He is problematic as well, but I think theirs is the healthiest of the Duggar marriages (a very low bar, I know).
As for the Holts, given how they started (there aren't barf bags enough to contain my bile watching that), is it anyone she's got a 10-year protection order against him now?
I'll need a few days before I can finish the other two episodes.
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Post by Hotcoconuts82 on Jun 4, 2023 14:10:28 GMT -6
I find it ironic that a story about their lives is rated 16 and up.
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Post by Hotcoconuts82 on Jun 5, 2023 7:45:00 GMT -6
Did I hear right? The clip of Michelle saying the population of the world is a myth???
Wtf
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willow
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Post by willow on Jun 5, 2023 8:13:23 GMT -6
Did I hear right? The clip of Michelle saying the population of the world is a myth??? Wtf Isn't that from like a decade ago? I remember it being newsworthy then. Is it just replayed in the doc? She said something stupid like if you put all the people in the world shoulder to shoulder they would all fit in Jacksonville so the idea of overpopulation is a myth. So I don't think it was that she doesn't believe in how many people are on earth, but rather that the population size isn't a problem.
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bobyn
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Post by bobyn on Jun 5, 2023 8:42:18 GMT -6
I binged this yesterday and learned about the Joshua Generation, so that's fucking terrifying.
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Post by Hotcoconuts82 on Jun 5, 2023 8:55:43 GMT -6
Did I hear right? The clip of Michelle saying the population of the world is a myth??? Wtf Isn't that from like a decade ago? I remember it being newsworthy then. Is it just replayed in the doc? She said something stupid like if you put all the people in the world shoulder to shoulder they would all fit in Jacksonville so the idea of overpopulation is a myth. So I don't think it was that she doesn't believe in how many people are on earth, but rather that the population size isn't a problem. Yes. It was an old clip. I don't know why anything they have said still surprises me.
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Jesslfar
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Post by Jesslfar on Jun 5, 2023 10:34:56 GMT -6
Did I hear right? The clip of Michelle saying the population of the world is a myth??? Wtf Isn't that from like a decade ago? I remember it being newsworthy then. Is it just replayed in the doc? She said something stupid like if you put all the people in the world shoulder to shoulder they would all fit in Jacksonville so the idea of overpopulation is a myth. So I don't think it was that she doesn't believe in how many people are on earth, but rather that the population size isn't a problem. Yes, it is old. The entire population of the world if standing side by side can fit in Jacksonville. She’s a product of the public school system. I know she’s brain washed and says what Jb tells her too. I doubt she really believes this. Her kids and everyone else in IBLP think this is true.
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elle
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Post by elle on Jun 5, 2023 12:27:12 GMT -6
first episode down. The Holt dad is a weirdo. Some of the stuff he said on some parts has me tilting my head like bruh what? Apparently more than just a weirdo. Bobye and their youngest son have just gotten a 10 year order of protection against him. link
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Post by lifesaverz on Jun 5, 2023 13:49:14 GMT -6
Oh wow
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Post by unicornofthesea on Jun 5, 2023 19:26:49 GMT -6
It's clear that Jill still has a lot to work through (the Josh abuse). I wonder if she is fixated on the documents coming because it's easier than focusing the actual abuse. Her parents did her so wrong by making those girls go on record forgiving Josh. I can only imagine they were blamed for tempting him.. so they must forgive him
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Leaf 🌱
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Post by Leaf 🌱 on Jun 5, 2023 21:14:42 GMT -6
When Jill clarified that some public schools brain wash children, I just felt sorry for her. Ahes still got so, so much to work through and I doubt she ever will
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Post by Hotcoconuts82 on Jun 6, 2023 6:47:53 GMT -6
When Jill clarified that some public schools brain wash children, I just felt sorry for her. Ahes still got so, so much to work through and I doubt she ever will The absolutely struck me as weird. But, I'm giving her a pass. I can't imagine the verbal vomit that would come out of my awkward mouth if I were in her position. And I do think she is working on things. I do believe she is in REAL therapy.
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Post by heathen on Jun 6, 2023 7:10:59 GMT -6
I only got through ep1 but I've always questioned why Amy was 'allowed' to be around her cousins so much. I would assume JB would consider her a bad example/lead them astray to rebel
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Post by Hotcoconuts82 on Jun 6, 2023 7:43:48 GMT -6
I only got through ep1 but I've always questioned why Amy was 'allowed' to be around her cousins so much. I would assume JB would consider her a bad example/lead them astray to rebel I'm sure she was heavily "chaperoned" when around the kids.
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claudia
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Post by claudia on Jun 6, 2023 9:05:15 GMT -6
I only got through ep1 but I've always questioned why Amy was 'allowed' to be around her cousins so much. I would assume JB would consider her a bad example/lead them astray to rebel I think because her mom was a single mom and worked, the grandma helped with Amy a lot when Amy was younger. Since the grandma lived with them (and by some reports, until the TLC money started flowing, provided financial support), that led to Amy being around a lot.
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