jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 15, 2021 13:16:51 GMT -6
One of the big arguments I hear about minimum wage is that it will just increase prices. Does anyone have a good response to this? The other two I hear are: -It'll lead to people working fewer hours, so therefore the same net amount -It'll lead to layoffs I don't have good responses either, though. I feel it's what we should do and will work out, but I don't have anything to point to. We need someone from Seattle to weigh in here. But it should not dramatically increase consumer goods
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Peekaru
Sapphire
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Post by Peekaru on Jan 15, 2021 13:28:55 GMT -6
The other two I hear are: -It'll lead to people working fewer hours, so therefore the same net amount -It'll lead to layoffs I don't have good responses either, though. I feel it's what we should do and will work out, but I don't have anything to point to. The fewer hours is laughable as a reason to keep wages lower. So what? If they can soul less, THAT'S ACTUALLY GOOD work should not be the most important thing. Lay offs may indeed happen, especially in companies that are set up with many low wage jobs. People much smarter than me have whole concepts of balancing this with the increase in the cost of goods, but also the plain truth is minimum wage is staggeringly low and is creating a big unstable economy.stuck in the boxThis, 1000 times, this.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 15, 2021 13:37:15 GMT -6
It depends a bit on where the supply and demand curve naturally is on labor costs and how much higher the minimum wage pushes it. I don’t know this to be true / haven’t done the research but i believe we are so out of whack and below what the market would bear that the effect on consumer prices will be minimal.
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Post by sheilathetank on Jan 15, 2021 13:43:46 GMT -6
One of the big arguments I hear about minimum wage is that it will just increase prices. Does anyone have a good response to this? CT is slowly increasing at $1 a year towards $15 (we're at $12 now and will be $13in the summer) and no one i know is complaining about lost hours, layoffs, and price increases. Do you know what did cause all three though? Covid.
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mathlete
Amethyst
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Post by mathlete on Jan 15, 2021 14:09:33 GMT -6
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dc2london
Admin
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Post by dc2london on Jan 15, 2021 14:28:45 GMT -6
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starbuck
Emerald
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Post by starbuck on Jan 15, 2021 14:43:46 GMT -6
The incompetence is staggering. There doesn't appear to be a vaccine stockpile to release. "Hopes of a surge in Covid-19 vaccine shipments under a new policy to release second doses held in reserve appear to be evaporating -- with the revelation that those doses have already been distributed, contrary to recent indications by the Trump administration." www.cnn.com/2021/01/15/politics/coronavirus-vaccine-reserve-dose/index.html
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Post by notblanche on Jan 15, 2021 14:50:32 GMT -6
I always knew Brian was the worst.
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richard
Emerald
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Post by richard on Jan 15, 2021 14:52:51 GMT -6
The incompetence is staggering. There doesn't appear to be a vaccine stockpile to release. "Hopes of a surge in Covid-19 vaccine shipments under a new policy to release second doses held in reserve appear to be evaporating -- with the revelation that those doses have already been distributed, contrary to recent indications by the Trump administration." www.cnn.com/2021/01/15/politics/coronavirus-vaccine-reserve-dose/index.htmlWHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
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byjove
Ruby
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Post by byjove on Jan 15, 2021 14:54:31 GMT -6
The incompetence is staggering. There doesn't appear to be a vaccine stockpile to release. "Hopes of a surge in Covid-19 vaccine shipments under a new policy to release second doses held in reserve appear to be evaporating -- with the revelation that those doses have already been distributed, contrary to recent indications by the Trump administration." www.cnn.com/2021/01/15/politics/coronavirus-vaccine-reserve-dose/index.htmlWe've been discussing this in the covid thread. This is a serious, huge, life altering fuck up.
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richard
Emerald
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Post by richard on Jan 15, 2021 14:54:53 GMT -6
heads to covid thread
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ktg
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Post by ktg on Jan 15, 2021 14:57:36 GMT -6
Uh ohhhh...
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trueblue
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Post by trueblue on Jan 15, 2021 15:08:42 GMT -6
Re: min wage increase, I don’t know about it working quite as well as it sounds on paper. I found this interesting to poke around in- www.cbo.gov/publication/55681Here’s the most logical arguments against increasing the minimum wage that I have heard. I am not commenting on whether these are right, just playing devils advocate. While the ultimate net impact of the increase is that yes, it will pull a certain number of workers out of poverty, but it will also eliminate a not-small amount of jobs and those families will be worse off, losing their income stream entirely, with the psychological impacts that go along with that and further pushing a certain class of americans further into a welfare-state situation and mind set that is even harder to come back from because they’ve been left behind again. It could be countered with job retraining/trade based education programs but also that isn’t on the table yet. I also think, given the amount of trauma and substance abuse in lower income communities any program introduced is going to need to include significant mental health, trauma, and addiction treatment resources. The factors that go into poverty and barriers to successful employment/career growth and getting out of poverty, aren’t necessarily simply a money-in/money-out calculation. For everyone the majority of prices on goods and services will rise because there’s the actual fact that goods and services will be more expensive to produce and bring to market/sell. But also because there will be the perception that buyers, at least on the lower wage scale, now have more significant ‘disposable’ income. It’s also likely wages across the board will rise because the frame of reference will change for job seekers, leading to fewer jobs or further increased prices. A job that did pay $15/hr prior to the min wage hike will likely be forced to increase that wage so that it continues to be viewed as a ‘better than minimum wage’ job and attract the quality of worker they are seeking. People take pride in what they earn, so to go from earning $ above minimum wage to X-minimum wage is a hard hit on the psyche-it’s kind of lime getting a wage demotion. So to keep valued employees feeling valued, employers will have to increase compensation directly (per hour/salary) or indirectly by paying a larger share of the employees benefits so the employees take home pay goes up a commensurate amount. Naturally all of that will lag a bit but at the end of the day, it just raises the price floor on everything. Eta: wow it felt good to think deep thoughts about something other than sedition, covid, and the possibility of massive civil unrest. I can’t wait to get back to this being the ‘norm’.
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Post by sheilathetank on Jan 15, 2021 15:22:50 GMT -6
Re: min wage increase, I don’t know about it working quite as well as it sounds on paper. I found this interesting to poke around in- www.cbo.gov/publication/55681Here’s the most logical arguments against increasing the minimum wage that I have heard. I am not commenting on whether these are right, just playing devils advocate. While the ultimate net impact of the increase is that yes, it will pull a certain number of workers out of poverty, but it will also eliminate a not-small amount of jobs and those families will be worse off, losing their income stream entirely, with the psychological impacts that go along with that and further pushing a certain class of americans further into a welfare-state situation and mind set that is even harder to come back from because they’ve been left behind again. It could be countered with job retraining/trade based education programs but also that isn’t on the table yet. I also think, given the amount of trauma and substance abuse in lower income communities any program introduced is going to need to include significant mental health, trauma, and addiction treatment resources. The factors that go into poverty and barriers to successful employment/career growth and getting out of poverty, aren’t necessarily simply a money-in/money-out calculation. For everyone the majority of prices on goods and services will rise because there’s the actual fact that goods and services will be more expensive to produce and bring to market/sell. But also because there will be the perception that buyers, at least on the lower wage scale, now have more significant ‘disposable’ income. It’s also likely wages across the board will rise because the frame of reference will change for job seekers, leading to fewer jobs or further increased prices. A job that did pay $15/hr prior to the min wage hike will likely be forced to increase that wage so that it continues to be viewed as a ‘better than minimum wage’ job and attract the quality of worker they are seeking. People take pride in what they earn, so to go from earning $ above minimum wage to X-minimum wage is a hard hit on the psyche-it’s kind of lime getting a wage demotion. So to keep valued employees feeling valued, employers will have to increase compensation directly (per hour/salary) or indirectly by paying a larger share of the employees benefits so the employees take home pay goes up a commensurate amount. Naturally all of that will lag a bit but at the end of the day, it just raises the price floor on everything. Eta: wow it felt good to think deep thoughts about something other than sedition, covid, and the possibility of massive civil unrest. I can’t wait to get back to this being the ‘norm’. By this arguement we should never increase the minimum wage or even lower it to provide more shitty jobs for people and keep costs low. NO. Society will adjust. The job market will adjust. The economy will adjust. Maybe that means that C suite execs get a 10% decrease in their bonuses. Boo fucking hoo. sorry this topic gets me so heated. We constantly put money above people and then are told that we will ruin society or we are communist, or we are unamerican (take your pic) if we go against this wealth before all ideal.
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bobyn
Diamond
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Post by bobyn on Jan 15, 2021 15:23:12 GMT -6
Has everyone received their $600 already?? We haven’t. We haven't either.
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ktg
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Post by ktg on Jan 15, 2021 15:33:07 GMT -6
I know it's strategic but it still feels great.
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mathlete
Amethyst
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Post by mathlete on Jan 15, 2021 15:47:11 GMT -6
I know it's strategic but it still feels great.
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cmb
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Post by cmb on Jan 15, 2021 15:51:41 GMT -6
I got hit by a paywall trying to read the article in the tweet- can they do this? Isn’t it crossing jurisdictional lines? The majority of places and agencies in NY have no jurisdiction over NYC and vice versa. I fully admit have no idea how it works in criminal investigations, so do they not fall under this? Can someone talk to me like I’m 5 on this?
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trueblue
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Post by trueblue on Jan 15, 2021 15:52:17 GMT -6
sheilathetank, I don’t think its as simple robin hood stepping in to take from the ‘C’ suit executive and giving to the minimum wage worker because poverty isn’t as simple as a wage disparity. It’s really two separate issues-money/wage and what brought the family that is in poverty to that point? The over compensation of some and the under compensation of many. The forces that you argue will ‘self’ correct to account for this are the very forces that got us here in the first place. To take into account the very human element out of wages, especially when there will be a real or perceived demotion in pay, isn’t putting money above people. To be honest, I think the solution isn’t to ‘throw’ money at it via increasing the minimum wage. In order to truly and meaningfully lift families out of poverty there needs to be a systemic change at a fundamental level - create job/trade training programs that are prepackaged with trauma/addiction/emotional and physical health aspects, that pay those enrolled a livable wage for the area in which they live, do the work to address the barriers to employment that exist (education, financial literacy, childcare, mental health, addiction, domestic violence, etc) and do what we can to break the poverty cycle, especially inter generational poverty. When the training programs are completed and the participants graduate, have there be a direct feed into a job that pays the same wage to start. From there the employee, ideally with mentors within the training program or at the employer, can grow their career.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Jan 15, 2021 15:53:10 GMT -6
🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏
The link is being stubborn and won't post but THE NRA FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY
: extreme Kevin laugh:
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trueblue
Sapphire
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Post by trueblue on Jan 15, 2021 16:01:25 GMT -6
🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏 The link is being stubborn and won't post but THE NRA FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY : extreme Kevin laugh: The article I read states it is to escape the corrupt political climate of NY. They will restructure in TX.
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byjove
Ruby
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Post by byjove on Jan 15, 2021 16:16:32 GMT -6
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Post by sheilathetank on Jan 15, 2021 16:18:08 GMT -6
sheilathetank, I don’t think its as simple robin hood stepping in to take from the ‘C’ suit executive and giving to the minimum wage worker because poverty isn’t as simple as a wage disparity. It’s really two separate issues-money/wage and what brought the family that is in poverty to that point? The over compensation of some and the under compensation of many. The forces that you argue will ‘self’ correct to account for this are the very forces that got us here in the first place. To take into account the very human element out of wages, especially when there will be a real or perceived demotion in pay, isn’t putting money above people. To be honest, I think the solution isn’t to ‘throw’ money at it via increasing the minimum wage. In order to truly and meaningfully lift families out of poverty there needs to be a systemic change at a fundamental level - create job/trade training programs that are prepackaged with trauma/addiction/emotional and physical health aspects, that pay those enrolled a livable wage for the area in which they live, do the work to address the barriers to employment that exist (education, financial literacy, childcare, mental health, addiction, domestic violence, etc) and do what we can to break the poverty cycle, especially inter generational poverty. When the training programs are completed and the participants graduate, have there be a direct feed into a job that pays the same wage to start. From there the employee, ideally with mentors within the training program or at the employer, can grow their career. This doesn't address those that work and don't want or need a career. Like there will still need to be retail workers and fast food workers. They deserve to work and get paid a living wage. I do agree that we need to do something more for those in generational poverty, and raising the minimum wage is the least we can do right now.
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bobyn
Diamond
local baby-making menace
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Post by bobyn on Jan 15, 2021 16:18:14 GMT -6
🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏 The link is being stubborn and won't post but THE NRA FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY : extreme Kevin laugh: The article I read states it is to escape the corrupt political climate of NY. They will restructure in TX. ugh, they can fuck right off
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ktg
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Post by ktg on Jan 15, 2021 16:19:27 GMT -6
I got hit by a paywall trying to read the article in the tweet- can they do this? Isn’t it crossing jurisdictional lines? The majority of places and agencies in NY have no jurisdiction over NYC and vice versa. I fully admit have no idea how it works in criminal investigations, so do they not fall under this? Can someone talk to me like I’m 5 on this? I know nothing, but the Manhattan DA website says, "Our Investigation Division is a recognized leader in the investigation and prosecution of white-collar crimes such as money laundering, securities fraud, and terrorism. Our Office’s unique location and jurisdiction enable our prosecutors to bring cases against parties located anywhere in the world who make use of the U.S. financial system."
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dc2london
Admin
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Post by dc2london on Jan 15, 2021 16:27:41 GMT -6
🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏 The link is being stubborn and won't post but THE NRA FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY : extreme Kevin laugh: The article I read states it is to escape the corrupt political climate of NY. They will restructure in TX. Oh, of course it's to escape prosecution in NY. But it's still a win.
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stepho
Gold
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Post by stepho on Jan 15, 2021 16:36:44 GMT -6
🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏 The link is being stubborn and won't post but THE NRA FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY : extreme Kevin laugh: ![](http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/5s.gif)
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trueblue
Sapphire
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Post by trueblue on Jan 15, 2021 16:50:18 GMT -6
sheilathetank, I don’t think its as simple robin hood stepping in to take from the ‘C’ suit executive and giving to the minimum wage worker because poverty isn’t as simple as a wage disparity. It’s really two separate issues-money/wage and what brought the family that is in poverty to that point? The over compensation of some and the under compensation of many. The forces that you argue will ‘self’ correct to account for this are the very forces that got us here in the first place. To take into account the very human element out of wages, especially when there will be a real or perceived demotion in pay, isn’t putting money above people. To be honest, I think the solution isn’t to ‘throw’ money at it via increasing the minimum wage. In order to truly and meaningfully lift families out of poverty there needs to be a systemic change at a fundamental level - create job/trade training programs that are prepackaged with trauma/addiction/emotional and physical health aspects, that pay those enrolled a livable wage for the area in which they live, do the work to address the barriers to employment that exist (education, financial literacy, childcare, mental health, addiction, domestic violence, etc) and do what we can to break the poverty cycle, especially inter generational poverty. When the training programs are completed and the participants graduate, have there be a direct feed into a job that pays the same wage to start. From there the employee, ideally with mentors within the training program or at the employer, can grow their career. Raising the minimum wage doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't also work on breaking the cycle of poverty. I don't understand your thought process. Likely because I was I was just trying to argue the counterpoint on a topic I am clearly not fully prepared to debate on. 🥴
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Post by sheilathetank on Jan 15, 2021 17:12:03 GMT -6
Raising the minimum wage doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't also work on breaking the cycle of poverty. I don't understand your thought process. Likely because I was I was just trying to argue the counterpoint on a topic I am clearly not fully prepared to debate on. 🥴 Eh its a really rough topic to debate. A lot of issue comes from the ingrained American dream ideal, bootstraps, and I did on $x why can't they. But I think we can all agree that we need to try something rather than do nothing, even if its not perfect?
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trueblue
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Post by trueblue on Jan 15, 2021 17:14:55 GMT -6
Likely because I was I was just trying to argue the counterpoint on a topic I am clearly not fully prepared to debate on. 🥴 Eh its a really rough topic to debate. A lot of issue comes from the ingrained American dream ideal, bootstraps, and I did on $x why can't they. But I think we can all agree that we need to try something rather than do nothing, even if its not perfect? Most definitely!
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