Cher
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Post by Cher on Mar 19, 2019 8:11:01 GMT -6
Cher, I totally agree with you on people’s worlds getting turned upside down. Especially in your case. I assumed it was an interpretation issue vs fraud. It actually happens a lot and people can get really hurt in the process. To me, this is soooo far from the fraud committed by the college scandal. You guys did nothing wrong, and I have so much sympathy for innocent bystanders regardless of wealth. Getting screwed when you did nothing wrong SUCKS regardless of financial standing. .
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mack
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Post by mack on Mar 19, 2019 8:30:15 GMT -6
I don't understand why you wouldn't have empathy for the kids that were in the dark? If they legitimately thought they got in on their merit or whatever and now they find out their fucked? That's an awful thing to happen to you regardless of your station in life. Just because people are well off or otherwise lucky doesn't mean that it does not suck for them when something bad happens.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 19, 2019 8:53:06 GMT -6
To me, this is soooo far from the fraud committed by the college scandal. You guys did nothing wrong, and I have so much sympathy for innocent bystanders regardless of wealth. Getting screwed when you did nothing wrong SUCKS regardless of financial standing. Exactly this is not even in the same realm as people committing crimes and using their money to acquire things not earned or deserved.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Mar 19, 2019 8:55:12 GMT -6
To me, this is soooo far from the fraud committed by the college scandal. You guys did nothing wrong, and I have so much sympathy for innocent bystanders regardless of wealth. Getting screwed when you did nothing wrong SUCKS regardless of financial standing. Exactly this is not even in the same realm as people committing crimes and using their money to acquire things not earned or deserved. It is different. And I don’t feel sympathy for people using their money or committing crimes.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 19, 2019 8:57:43 GMT -6
I don't understand why you wouldn't have empathy for the kids that were in the dark? If they legitimately thought they got in on their merit or whatever and now they find out their fucked? That's an awful thing to happen to you regardless of your station in life. Just because people are well off or otherwise lucky doesn't mean that it does not suck for them when something bad happens. I feel this is directed at me because I said it -
why? cause what's their big circumstance going to be? They can't start school when they thought they would. They would have to go to another school. They would have to do the application on their own. Oh boo hoo.
They are not fucked. Their life isn't ending. They will be able to go to college if they want to just maybe not this one.
I don't view this as something bad that happened. A crime was committed and when adults with children commit crimes often the results affect the whole family regardless of wealth and station. In this situation the "child" has a lot less to worry about and a lot more resources for easier bouncing back.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 19, 2019 9:01:00 GMT -6
I just sat with it again in quiet and meditated on it and again, I can't muster any concern or sympathy for these college kids affected in the scandal.
ETA - if that makes me a bad person, I am ok with it.
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beatch
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Post by beatch on Mar 19, 2019 9:04:50 GMT -6
I don't understand why you wouldn't have empathy for the kids that were in the dark? If they legitimately thought they got in on their merit or whatever and now they find out their fucked? That's an awful thing to happen to you regardless of your station in life. Just because people are well off or otherwise lucky doesn't mean that it does not suck for them when something bad happens. I have empathy that they were publicly embarrassed by their parents' actions. However, they should still have to face the consequences. And their consequences will be extremely light given their families' wealth and resources.
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Post by angelashly on Mar 19, 2019 9:45:35 GMT -6
I heard a vague rumor that working for UC might be a discount on tuition for my kids, but I need to check into it further. If so, I guess I stay here for lyfe. My university will pay for tuition there, or a percentage anywhere else in the country. I will sweep floors if that's what it takes to continue working for them. Yep plus extra scholarships for employee's kids for books and things. i am here for the next decade and a half at least
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brux
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Post by brux on Mar 19, 2019 9:54:52 GMT -6
I just sat with it again in quiet and meditated on it and again, I can't muster any concern or sympathy for these college kids affected in the scandal.
ETA - if that makes me a bad person, I am ok with it. I feel sympathy for kids who thought their achievements alone got them into college, and who are now embarrassed to find out that their parents greased the wheels and more. That would suck to learn that and to reconcile with your own sense of self. I'd feel the same level of sympathy for someone who pooped their pants in a grocery store because they ate too many prunes.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 19, 2019 10:26:27 GMT -6
I don't understand why you wouldn't have empathy for the kids that were in the dark? If they legitimately thought they got in on their merit or whatever and now they find out their fucked? That's an awful thing to happen to you regardless of your station in life. Just because people are well off or otherwise lucky doesn't mean that it does not suck for them when something bad happens. For me, I don’t believe there are kids that are truly in the dark. 🤷♀️ Same.
I am puzzled by these statements. Like you know you have never been in a sport so when you are then called a recruit something should raise question to you.
Anyway, it doesn't matter to me. So you are embarrassed oops? I mean if a child is involved in the college application process I can't see how they wouldn't know.
I did my own paperwork. Not a parent or hired person did mine for me.
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kmkd
Amethyst
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Post by kmkd on Mar 19, 2019 10:49:14 GMT -6
For me, I don’t believe there are kids that are truly in the dark. 🤷♀️ Same.
I am puzzled by these statements. Like you know you have never been in a sport so when you are then called a recruit something should raise question to you.
Anyway, it doesn't matter to me. So you are embarrassed oops? I mean if a child is involved in the college application process I can't see how they wouldn't know.
I did my own paperwork. Not a parent or hired person did mine for me.
Well there were multiple ways it went down. It wasn’t just the recruiting, and things happened behind the scenes aside from the application process. So if someone didn’t know, I do feel bad for them. That sucks, on many levels. I don’t think that privilege exempts people from sympathy. My heart isn’t broken for them, but I do feel bad for someone who is actually in the dark.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 19, 2019 10:58:45 GMT -6
I don't understand why you wouldn't have empathy for the kids that were in the dark? If they legitimately thought they got in on their merit or whatever and now they find out their fucked? That's an awful thing to happen to you regardless of your station in life. Just because people are well off or otherwise lucky doesn't mean that it does not suck for them when something bad happens. Yes. This.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 19, 2019 11:05:45 GMT -6
Same.
I am puzzled by these statements. Like you know you have never been in a sport so when you are then called a recruit something should raise question to you.
Anyway, it doesn't matter to me. So you are embarrassed oops? I mean if a child is involved in the college application process I can't see how they wouldn't know.
I did my own paperwork. Not a parent or hired person did mine for me.
Well there were multiple ways it went down. It wasn’t just the recruiting, and things happened behind the scenes aside from the application process. So if someone didn’t know, I do feel bad for them. That sucks, on many levels. I don’t think that privilege exempts people from sympathy. My heart isn’t broken for them, but I do feel bad for someone who is actually in the dark. I never said privilege exempts people from sympathy. I said I don't feel bad for them. They have resources to recover rather quickly and attend another school should they choose.
Anyway, I am not trying to convince anyone.
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AmyG
Ruby
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Post by AmyG on Mar 19, 2019 11:07:05 GMT -6
I asked my 18 year old college student last night what he thought of this scandal.
He said honestly some of the stuff they did he didnt even think was illegal. Unethical to use money to get what you want, but not seen as illegal. Its all just a way to game the system.
So thats why I would possibly give some measure of sympathy to the youngest of these kids. I mean grown adults didnt see it as illegal, so the kids would do what the adults told them to.
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Post by justbecause on Mar 19, 2019 11:07:16 GMT -6
1: a lot of these kids would not have gotten in on their own merits without the cheating. Wouldn’t a person at 18 fill out their own paperwork and also have the awareness of knowing that you weren’t qualified for the school? 2: as stated above. They are not fucked. Their lives are not “ruined” by any stretch.
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kmkd
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Post by kmkd on Mar 19, 2019 11:07:37 GMT -6
Well there were multiple ways it went down. It wasn’t just the recruiting, and things happened behind the scenes aside from the application process. So if someone didn’t know, I do feel bad for them. That sucks, on many levels. I don’t think that privilege exempts people from sympathy. My heart isn’t broken for them, but I do feel bad for someone who is actually in the dark. I never said privilege exempts people from sympathy. I said I don't feel bad for them. They have resources to recover rather quickly and attend another school should they choose.
Anyway, I am not trying to convince anyone.
Understood. I’m not either.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 19, 2019 11:09:24 GMT -6
I’m guilty of this as well because I also keep saying ‘kids’ but I think this is part of the problem. I feel that white 18 year olds are ‘kids’ and are treated as such but 18 POC are not always offered that same status. Not saying this is a board problem, moreso something I’ve noticed in the media and I think we can do better on. Girl yes.
"They" are so quick to call POC men and women right at 18, 17 if they can push it when it is negative.
But these "poor" children, wah wah wah. No, miss me with that shit. The fragility paint brush is out and ready to paint the sympathy onto to them.
So one of these kids is embarrassed oh woe is me. Wow.
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kmkd
Amethyst
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Post by kmkd on Mar 19, 2019 11:09:50 GMT -6
I don't understand why you wouldn't have empathy for the kids that were in the dark? If they legitimately thought they got in on their merit or whatever and now they find out their fucked? That's an awful thing to happen to you regardless of your station in life. Just because people are well off or otherwise lucky doesn't mean that it does not suck for them when something bad happens. Yes. This. Even if your life is far from ruined, it would be a pretty big bummer to have to leave a school that you presumably liked, had friends at, had established a life at. Remember that this is much bigger than those Giannulli knuckleheads. I believe there are plenty of kids who knew they had some “help” getting in but had no idea the extent.
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Mar 19, 2019 11:09:51 GMT -6
I also feel sympathy for anyone who suddenly finds out their whole life their parents(or husband or whatever) have been lying to them about how the whole world works.
Sooooooo many parents do all the college applications for their kids.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 11:10:01 GMT -6
1: a lot of these kids would not have gotten in on their own merits without the cheating. Wouldn’t a person at 18 fill out their own paperwork and also have the awareness of knowing that you weren’t qualified for the school? 2: as stated above. They are not fucked. Their lives are not “ruined” by any stretch. I mean...have you met many of the children of today? My co-worker who is not a mega-rich celebrity with unlimited resources and nannies and personal assistants to do her (and her kids') work has been calling her ADULT DAUGHTER'S college because her ADULT DAUGHTER didn't get an answer she expected/wanted with regards to her graduation requirements. So, no, I don't expect that these particular 18 year olds are filling out their own paperwork.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 19, 2019 11:10:44 GMT -6
For me, I don’t believe there are kids that are truly in the dark. 🤷♀️ Same.
I am puzzled by these statements. Like you know you have never been in a sport so when you are then called a recruit something should raise question to you.
Anyway, it doesn't matter to me. So you are embarrassed oops? I mean if a child is involved in the college application process I can't see how they wouldn't know.
I did my own paperwork. Not a parent or hired person did mine for me.
I doubt that they were involved in any level of active recruitment like actual recruits, and nothing in any paperwork sent to the student would have mentioned it if they were not scholarship athletes. I would like to say that most kids would be aware that they don't meet admission requirements, but many of these kids have likely had everything done for them their entire lives and don't have a clue what the requirements were or that they were short of them. If they truly didn't know and this is how they found out, yeah, I will give a little empathy because that sucks. But these kids aren't going to be destitute because of this. This will not have any longer term effect on them and will likely become a joke ("remember that time mom bought our way into college and then got arrested for it? LOLz").
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 19, 2019 11:11:31 GMT -6
I asked my 18 year old college student last night what he thought of this scandal. He said honestly some of the stuff they did he didnt even think was illegal. Unethical to use money to get what you want, but not seen as illegal. Its all just a way to game the system. So thats why I would possibly give some measure of sympathy to the youngest of these kids. I mean grown adults didnt see it as illegal, so the kids would do what the adults told them to. So you raised a child that doesn't grasp that bribery is illegal?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 11:12:32 GMT -6
I also feel sympathy for anyone who suddenly finds out their whole life their parents(or husband or whatever) have been lying to them about how the whole world works. Sooooooo many parents do all the college applications for their kids. I think I feel bad for the one who (and I can't remember who it was, just read the exchange) where the Mom was like "she's not going to stop trying until she gets X score and she's never going to get X score so can you just make that happen for me please". Like damn that child had to find out that not only is she obviously a dummy but that her Mom has so little faith in her and basically said she'll never accomplish this on her own. I can imagine it would feel really, really shitty to think you had a great relationship with your Mom and come to find out what she really thought of you/your ability. So I guess I feel empathy for the kids who really didn't know more so than sympathy.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 19, 2019 11:14:11 GMT -6
I asked my 18 year old college student last night what he thought of this scandal. He said honestly some of the stuff they did he didnt even think was illegal. Unethical to use money to get what you want, but not seen as illegal. Its all just a way to game the system. So thats why I would possibly give some measure of sympathy to the youngest of these kids. I mean grown adults didnt see it as illegal, so the kids would do what the adults told them to. So this is the excuse now? We're confused about fraud? Cheating on tests? Posing as a student athlete? Bribing a coach to say you play a sport you don't? Bribing a testing official to change your scores? Hiring a third party to take classes and exams in place of students?
I guess I am not seeing which things are cloudy here?
You know what, never mind.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 19, 2019 11:15:46 GMT -6
1: a lot of these kids would not have gotten in on their own merits without the cheating. Wouldn’t a person at 18 fill out their own paperwork and also have the awareness of knowing that you weren’t qualified for the school? 2: as stated above. They are not fucked. Their lives are not “ruined” by any stretch. It's the embarrassment and leaving friends you might have made. Don't you see?
sarcasm
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Post by sheilathetank on Mar 19, 2019 11:19:28 GMT -6
Even if your life is far from ruined, it would be a pretty big bummer to have to leave a school that you presumably liked, had friends at, had established a life at. Remember that this is much bigger than those Giannulli knuckleheads. I believe there are plenty of kids who knew they had some “help” getting in but had no idea the extent. This is why I don't have sympathy. It's a "bummer" to them. It's not the end of the world. They will recover and be fine. Maybe take a gap year, go backpacking in Europe, find themselves or something, but in the end they still have privilege upon privileged to make up for it. It sucks but I'm not wasting an ounce of sympathy on this shit. I feel a billion trillion times more sympathy for the kids that didn't get in because these fuckers took their spots.
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kmkd
Amethyst
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Post by kmkd on Mar 19, 2019 11:23:58 GMT -6
Even if your life is far from ruined, it would be a pretty big bummer to have to leave a school that you presumably liked, had friends at, had established a life at. Remember that this is much bigger than those Giannulli knuckleheads. I believe there are plenty of kids who knew they had some “help” getting in but had no idea the extent. This is why I don't have sympathy. It's a "bummer" to them. It's not the end of the world. They will recover and be fine. Maybe take a gap year, go backpacking in Europe, find themselves or something, but in the end they still have privilege upon privileged to make up for it. It sucks but I'm not wasting an ounce of sympathy on this shit. I feel a billion trillion times more sympathy for the kids that didn't get in because these fuckers took their spots. Ok, you don’t have to. I’m just saying how I feel.
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Post by angelashly on Mar 19, 2019 11:24:53 GMT -6
1: a lot of these kids would not have gotten in on their own merits without the cheating. Wouldn’t a person at 18 fill out their own paperwork and also have the awareness of knowing that you weren’t qualified for the school? 2: as stated above. They are not fucked. Their lives are not “ruined” by any stretch. Considering the amount of parents who call me daily that I have to remind them that their preshus are over the age of 18 and I can't in fact talk to them about anything despite them paying the bill. I would say no. I also work with honors students so they should in fact know these things
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 19, 2019 11:26:36 GMT -6
1: a lot of these kids would not have gotten in on their own merits without the cheating. Wouldn’t a person at 18 fill out their own paperwork and also have the awareness of knowing that you weren’t qualified for the school? 2: as stated above. They are not fucked. Their lives are not “ruined” by any stretch. Considering the amount of parents who call me daily that I have to remind them that their preshus are over the age of 18 and I can't in fact talk to them about anything despite them paying the bill. I would say no. I also work with honors students so they should in fact know these things I have parents call me for their adult children in my work. No, I can't talk to you!!
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Post by angelashly on Mar 19, 2019 11:27:31 GMT -6
I’m guilty of this as well because I also keep saying ‘kids’ but I think this is part of the problem. I feel that white 18 year olds are ‘kids’ and are treated as such but 18 POC are not always offered that same status. Not saying this is a board problem, moreso something I’ve noticed in the media and I think we can do better on. Girl yes.
"They" are so quick to call POC men and women right at 18, 17 if they can push it when it is negative.
But these "poor" children, wah wah wah. No, miss me with that shit. The fragility paint brush is out and ready to paint the sympathy onto to them.
So one of these kids is embarrassed oh woe is me. Wow.
I do agree with you on the POC being seen as an adult right away. I have had to remind SO that while he feels his nephew was grown at 18 no he isn't. But I am also confused by the amount of people in this very thread (not you McBenny) that are all those kids know better they are 18/19 years old, but in other threads will say that they are kids who don't have full brain development until 25 of whatever so.....
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