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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 8:46:39 GMT -6
I will join! Fucking Noom. What a letdown. I'm back on MFP. Noom was the worst. Just awful. I still get ads for it on FB and I chuckle. I see you noom.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 8:46:40 GMT -6
I feel like IRL I straddle two worlds. One is the world of women (people) who work out almost everyday and watch what they eat. They are dieters and healthy choicers, and there is a definite acknowledgement that while we enjoy what we do, it comes at a cost. Sure, I would love to binge on pizza and wine, who wouldn’t, and workouts are hard, but we like them and we revel in the camaraderie of our shared suffering.
And there is the other- the “effortlessly” thin. The ones who claim that they eat anything they want, say they never have to watch their weight, and the baby weight just “fell off.” They’re the ones who complain out loud in parties that their MD or OB is worried that they don’t weigh enough. They claim to do yoga once in a while for stress relief but swear that they never “actually exercise.”
I belong to the first group, and I am sure that comes as no surprise.
I really hate the second group. And I hate how they pretend that everything is so effortless for them (or maybe their lives are that effortless, and then I hate them for that, too.) I also feel like I am supposed to envy them or praise them for the fact that they’re thin without trying, and I don’t.
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Post by yoginikiki on Feb 6, 2018 8:54:08 GMT -6
thisbitch along those same lines, those with the genetics that don't believe those who work out and diet because "if you really did those things you would look like x" I don't understand how people can wrap their head around different show sizes but not different bodies. Some things can be changed by choices and exercise, some things, like shoe aize and bra size what have you, can not.
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mack
Amethyst
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Post by mack on Feb 6, 2018 8:55:11 GMT -6
I feel like my mom diet shames me. Sometimes I wonder if it's because she lived through all diet fads of the 80/90s. I feel like she associates anything that restricts your food with disordered eating. I do flexible dieting and stick to a set of macros. But to hit your macros, it requires that you weigh out your food to make sure you aren't under estimating or overestimating your portions. I hate weighing my food in front of her because she thinks I am trying to be anorexic. When in fact, I am probably weighing my meat to make sure I am getting enough protein.
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jorkzy
Emerald
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Post by jorkzy on Feb 6, 2018 8:56:52 GMT -6
My only issue with dieting is that I feel like a lot of it doesn't work and can be pretty extreme. I won't comment unless I'm asked but I'm always positive and encouraging when I hear a friend is trying to be more active, or trying to reduce their sugar. However when I hear they are dropping all carbs or only drinking green smoothies or whatever I'm much more skeptical and probably not cheering them on. But overall I have no issue if someone says they are trying to lose weight. Some of the mother fucking fads. Nothing magical has been learned. Just trust on that one. So some random diet you may not have heard of is not going to be a magic solution. And it's likely been around for some time and you just didn't know about it. PREACH
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 8:59:06 GMT -6
We never talk about weight or dieting or anything in front of the kids and the 7yo is selling Girl Scout cookies this year, and she has already commented SO MANY TIMES about how it’s only the dads that like cookies.
She doesn’t understand yet (and I hope she doesn’t have to think about it for a while), but of course the reason that the moms don’t eat cookies isn’t because they don’t like them, but because they can’t afford the calories.
*I’m not sure how that relates exactly, but it’s been there in my head the last few weeks as we’ve been selling cookies.
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Post by yoginikiki on Feb 6, 2018 9:01:50 GMT -6
HilarityEnsued, that is what I was trying to say about diet as a verb vs diet as a choice. I understand what you mean.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Feb 6, 2018 9:03:12 GMT -6
...is just how controlled I need to be in my food choices, and how dedicated I need to be in my working out/exercise life, to reach my goals. But for me, the realization that I actually need to work out multiple times a week, every single week, and make good food choices 9 times out of 10, for the rest of time, has been a big one to process. It's not a diet/quick fix. It's just that I literally need to alter the way I live my life. This is soul crushing to me. I really think it's what stops me from meeting my body goals. I cannot fathom counting calories and tracking what I eat, day in day out for THE REST OF MY LIFE. And I reject any sentiment that it won't be necessary to track and put major mental effort into food choices forever because I have seen time and time again how easy it is to push pause on those things and settle right back into the 20 pounds I just lost. I want to kick and scream and break things because I don't want to put in the effort to maintain a healthy diet forever and ever. And yet I'm so tired of carrying this extra weight. So tired.
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Post by coconutbacon on Feb 6, 2018 9:03:32 GMT -6
Thanks for sharing these articles HilarityEnsued. They definitely struck a chord with me. I grew up with parents who were always dieting. My mom was naturally pretty thin, but always seemed to be on a diet– slim fast powders and all of the low fat food were standard pantry items, and she would make subtle (and not so subtle) comments about those who were heavier. From the time I was 8, I was warned that I had to be wary in case I'd inherited my dad's family's less than ideal metabolism. My dad would yoyo. Before a vacation, he'd pay my sister and I to be his "coaches" (food and exercise police) and we'd get compensated a certain amount per pound he lost. Not surprisingly, I had some messed up attitudes about my body and food for a while, and I don't think that my experiences were uncommon. I think some of the anti-dieting attitudes are a reaction against that– this desire to make sure that we aren't passing along body neuroses to our children. But, I can't eat whatever I want and be thin. And I do want to be thinner than I am right now. Part of it is wanting to be healthy, and faster and stronger. But I also want to wear certain clothes, and I don't want to cringe when I see myself in photos. And I don't think that makes me any less of a feminist. This stuff is complicated.
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teatime
Gold
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Post by teatime on Feb 6, 2018 9:03:41 GMT -6
We never talk about weight or dieting or anything in front of the kids and the 7yo is selling Girl Scout cookies this year, and she has already commented SO MANY TIMES about how it’s only the dads that like cookies. She doesn’t understand yet (and I hope she doesn’t have to think about it for a while), but of course the reason that the moms don’t eat cookies isn’t because they don’t like them, but because they can’t afford the calories. *I’m not sure how that relates exactly, but it’s been there in my head the last few weeks as we’ve been selling cookies. Small caveat - I can figure out where treats can fit into my healthy eating. If I’m going to do that, though, it’s going to be something I really like, like some good wine or an amazing dessert. Not for Girl Scout cookies which every year seem to be getting closer to cardboard and not the cookies I remember from being younger. So to me it’s not about affording the calories but it’s recognizing that I wouldn’t truly enjoy what it was I was eating.
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jorkzy
Emerald
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Post by jorkzy on Feb 6, 2018 9:04:33 GMT -6
I feel like IRL I straddle two worlds. One is the world of women (people) who work out almost everyday and watch what they eat. They are dieters and healthy choicers, and there is a definite acknowledgement that while we enjoy what we do, it comes at a cost. Sure, I would love to binge on pizza and wine, who wouldn’t, and workouts are hard, but we like them and we revel in the camaraderie of our shared suffering. And there is the other- the “effortlessly” thin. The ones who claim that they eat anything they want, say they never have to watch their weight, and the baby weight just “fell off.” They’re the ones who complain out loud in parties that their MD or OB is worried that they don’t weigh enough. They claim to do yoga once in a while for stress relief but swear that they never “actually exercise.” I belong to the first group, and I am sure that comes as no surprise. I really hate the second group. And I hate how they pretend that everything is so effortless for them (or maybe their lives are that effortless, and then I hate them for that, too.) I also feel like I am supposed to envy them or praise them for the fact that they’re thin without trying, and I don’t. Ok but there are different body types and some people really can eat whatever and not exercise and still be skinny. I am one of them, but I certainly don't talk about it at parties. Ive posted before that a nurse here at work joked about me being anorexic because of my size and I don't like that - I eat a normal diet and don't have body image issues. I can't help my body type any more than you can.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 9:05:24 GMT -6
So, this is a little different for me because culturally out here in the Bay Area, it’s super trendy to be into healthy eating and so much exercise. I was the odd man out when I rejected that for...four or five years. I get asked a lot about my weight loss and I do talk about WW, but it’s a bit “old school” for people out here because they mostly act like we are just supposed to love kale and vegan substitutes for everything without effort. But, I’ve received good responses and, overall, a lot of support from friends. I do appreciate that people are always down to hang out by going on a hike or an exercise class.
Anyways, I only sort of related to that part.
I’m general though, I kind of wish it was just a keep your eyes on your own paper thing. Like I’m down for talking about it and supporting each other, but I hate when it veers into a competition. Like if I’m in go mode and a friend is not feeling motivated and maybe gaining weight, I don’t want her to feel judged by my loss or focus on losing/getting in shape. Or vice versa. I just want us to be happy for each other for the phase of our journey we are in and support each other when we want to make a change. But I don’t want to compete or have weird judgey feelings hanging in the air.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Feb 6, 2018 9:06:04 GMT -6
We never talk about weight or dieting or anything in front of the kids and the 7yo is selling Girl Scout cookies this year, and she has already commented SO MANY TIMES about how it’s only the dads that like cookies. She doesn’t understand yet (and I hope she doesn’t have to think about it for a while), but of course the reason that the moms don’t eat cookies isn’t because they don’t like them, but because they can’t afford the calories. *I’m not sure how that relates exactly, but it’s been there in my head the last few weeks as we’ve been selling cookies. this bothers me though. You're trying to avoid one tough conversation while planting the seeds of another difficult topic by not addressing the fact that everyone likes cookies. She's a girl who probably likes cookies and she knows she's not going to grow up to be a dad. I'd bet that she's noticing the conflict and trying to reconcile her understand of the world. You can help her. I think you need to tell her that moms like cookies just as much as dads.
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teatime
Gold
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Post by teatime on Feb 6, 2018 9:09:50 GMT -6
I’m general though, I kind of wish it was just a keep your eyes on your own paper thing. Like I’m down for talking about it and supporting each other, but I hate when it veers into a competition. Like if I’m in go mode and a friend is not feeling motivated and maybe gaining weight, I don’t want her to feel judged by my loss or focus on losing/getting in shape. Or vice versa. I just want us to be happy for each other for the phase of our journey we are in and support each other when we want to make a change. But I don’t want to compete or have weird judgey feelings hanging in the air. I guess I feel like if I’m making good choices for myself and am striving towards looking and feeling good, and someone is feeling judged because of the choices *I* am making for myself, then that’s on them. I think it’s messed up when someone is actively trying to eat better and gets criticized or made fun of for not having the burger or whatever. That’s weird. And if someone is feeling judged because a tablemate got a salad or something, they need to look inward.
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thatgolfb
Unicorn
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Post by thatgolfb on Feb 6, 2018 9:10:00 GMT -6
I like this article. It also made me think about something else I've been pondering regarding "fat shaming" as it relates to the medical field. People really need to stop accusing doctors of fat shaming when giving medical advice. Bedside manner aside(I know some can be dicks)...not wanting to hear that weight loss is necessary doesn't mean you are being fat shamed. Doctors are trying to do their job, whether it hurts feelings or not. I don't want my doctor to not tell me the truth about my health because they are afraid of hurting my feelings or bad PR. YES. I've thought this multiple times before.
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mack
Amethyst
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Post by mack on Feb 6, 2018 9:10:05 GMT -6
...is just how controlled I need to be in my food choices, and how dedicated I need to be in my working out/exercise life, to reach my goals. But for me, the realization that I actually need to work out multiple times a week, every single week, and make good food choices 9 times out of 10, for the rest of time, has been a big one to process. It's not a diet/quick fix. It's just that I literally need to alter the way I live my life. This is soul crushing to me. I really think it's what stops me from meeting my body goals. I cannot fathom counting calories and tracking what I eat, day in day out for THE REST OF MY LIFE. And I reject any sentiment that it won't be necessary to track and put major mental effort into food choices forever because I have seen time and time again how easy it is to push pause on those things and settle right back into the 20 pounds I just lost. I want to kick and scream and break things because I don't want to put in the effort to maintain a healthy diet forever and ever. And yet I'm so tired of carrying this extra weight. So tired. I do think that for some people it does take a lot more mental effort. Different people have different relationships with food that makes it harder to just casually eat a cookie once in a while or not give into their food cravings.
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adelbert
Amethyst
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Post by adelbert on Feb 6, 2018 9:10:09 GMT -6
I think there can be room for cookies in a healthy diet. And not just on a super special treat day.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 9:10:37 GMT -6
In terms of feminism, I have no disconnect there because of how I arrived at my current mindset, which is:
I have goals in my life and in order to achieve those goals and fulfill the responsibilities that I want to take on, I need to be healthier than I was when I started. I need energy, strength, stamina, and control of my chronic heath issues. I am getting that by maintaining a healthy diet and exercise program.
I think that’s pretty damn in line with feminist ideals.
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Post by purpleiris on Feb 6, 2018 9:12:36 GMT -6
I feel like my mom diet shames me. Sometimes I wonder if it's because she lived through all diet fads of the 80/90s. I feel like she associates anything that restricts your food with disordered eating. I do flexible dieting and stick to a set of macros. But to hit your macros, it requires that you weigh out your food to make sure you aren't under estimating or overestimating your portions. I hate weighing my food in front of her because she thinks I am trying to be anorexic. When in fact, I am probably weighing my meat to make sure I am getting enough protein. If anything weighing my food shows me that I’m often underestimating my portions, particularly with protein.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 9:13:33 GMT -6
brux, 7yo girls already talk so much about getting fat and fattening foods, and my kid is active and lean, and I want her to be able to enjoy a few years before she starts tracking what she eats. She knows that we exercise and she knows to talk about healthy foods and eating fruits and vegetables. I don’t want her to have to worry about her weight until she does (need to worry about it.)
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Post by yoginikiki on Feb 6, 2018 9:14:50 GMT -6
I think there can be room for cookies in a healthy diet. And not just on a super special treat day. This is what I learned from WLC. Basically, a cookie is a treat every four days or so...and a blow out day is every 21 days or so if you make good choices the rest of the time (including the every four day cookie). I just have to make better choices and re-calibrate my thoughts and adjust my reward system away from food and booze. I feel you brux. Food is my love language. I am Italian and I spent a large part of my life with food insecurity. All of those combine to make me really defensive of the food that I grew up with. It is soul crushing sometimes. It is getting better for me. Slowly but surely. It is not easy yet, but better. I just wanted to share that.
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Post by roguelily on Feb 6, 2018 9:15:54 GMT -6
Yes there are zillions of effortlessly thin people, and I am currently living on their continent. And trust me, they are eating.
Oddly, moving to a place with a bunch of skinny gals has been the antidote to diet culture for me. I’m much more able to find happiness in my own skin when there’s not really anyone else around to compare myself to. I hope this is a mindset I can maintain when I move back to “my own cultur” but I do think it’s difficult- especially when there’s so many messages out there that essentially ask us to compare ourselves.
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Post by chickenonsunday on Feb 6, 2018 9:16:18 GMT -6
So, this is a little different for me because culturally out here in the Bay Area, it’s super trendy to be into healthy eating and so much exercise. I was the odd man out when I rejected that for...four or five years. I get asked a lot about my weight loss and I do talk about WW, but it’s a bit “old school” for people out here because they mostly act like we are just supposed to love kale and vegan substitutes for everything without effort. But, I’ve received good responses and, overall, a lot of support from friends. I do appreciate that people are always down to hang out by going on a hike or an exercise class. Anyways, I only sort of related to that part. I’m general though, I kind of wish it was just a keep your eyes on your own paper thing. Like I’m down for talking about it and supporting each other, but I hate when it veers into a competition. Like if I’m in go mode and a friend is not feeling motivated and maybe gaining weight, I don’t want her to feel judged by my loss or focus on losing/getting in shape. Or vice versa. I just want us to be happy for each other for the phase of our journey we are in and support each other when we want to make a change. But I don’t want to compete or have weird judgey feelings hanging in the air. I completely agree with the bolded. What works for one won't work for others. Genetics, activity level, age, and food choices make success and failures in body composition something very difficult to match. So often people get frustrated and quit the exercise/dieting journey because they see others hitting milestones that they themselves are falling short of. I like having a community of knowledge to draw from but staying in your own lane and finding the inner desire to make the change is what I have found to be what gets me the most success.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Feb 6, 2018 9:16:43 GMT -6
brux , 7yo girls already talk so much about getting fat and fattening foods, and my kid is active and lean, and I want her to be able to enjoy a few years before she starts tracking what she eats. She knows that we exercise and she knows to talk about healthy foods and eating fruits and vegetables. I don’t want her to have to worry about her weight until she does (need to worry about it.) I feel like we're two ships passing in the night. Cookies aren't the enemy. Your daughter already noticed that moms don't eat treats and worry about getting fat. She already is receiving the messages you don't want her to learn.
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Pizzaslut
Ruby
*it’s a joke. get some hobbies.
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Post by Pizzaslut on Feb 6, 2018 9:18:04 GMT -6
...is just how controlled I need to be in my food choices, and how dedicated I need to be in my working out/exercise life, to reach my goals. But for me, the realization that I actually need to work out multiple times a week, every single week, and make good food choices 9 times out of 10, for the rest of time, has been a big one to process. It's not a diet/quick fix. It's just that I literally need to alter the way I live my life. This is soul crushing to me. I really think it's what stops me from meeting my body goals. I cannot fathom counting calories and tracking what I eat, day in day out for THE REST OF MY LIFE. And I reject any sentiment that it won't be necessary to track and put major mental effort into food choices forever because I have seen time and time again how easy it is to push pause on those things and settle right back into the 20 pounds I just lost. I want to kick and scream and break things because I don't want to put in the effort to maintain a healthy diet forever and ever. And yet I'm so tired of carrying this extra weight. So tired. Supposedly, you won't have to count calories and track what you eat forever and ever. The goal is to get where you want to be and after doing it for so long, you just know what to eat. You can have cheat meals and treats but then you just go back to your regularly scheduled, healthier eating lifestyle. This is what I hear anyway, I still like to shove pizzas in my face.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 9:18:39 GMT -6
jorkzy, I know people have different body types. I honestly don’t mean that. If you’re the woman who is saying she never feels job stress and doesn’t get tired from middle of the night wake ups because your babies slept through the night at two weeks old and you can’t gain weight to save your life and you and your husband still have hot sex every,single.day and your house is never messy, well then, I am going to stand here and say that you may actually be a unicorn, but inside I am doubting everything you say about basically everything.
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mack
Amethyst
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Post by mack on Feb 6, 2018 9:20:07 GMT -6
This is soul crushing to me. I really think it's what stops me from meeting my body goals. I cannot fathom counting calories and tracking what I eat, day in day out for THE REST OF MY LIFE. And I reject any sentiment that it won't be necessary to track and put major mental effort into food choices forever because I have seen time and time again how easy it is to push pause on those things and settle right back into the 20 pounds I just lost. I want to kick and scream and break things because I don't want to put in the effort to maintain a healthy diet forever and ever. And yet I'm so tired of carrying this extra weight. So tired. Supposedly, you won't have to count calories and track what you eat forever and ever. The goal is to get where you want to be and after doing it for so long, you just know what to eat. You can have cheat meals and treats but then you just go back to your regularly scheduled, healthier eating lifestyle. This is what I hear anyway, I still like to shove pizzas in my face. I think for some people this is true but I think for other's their relationship with food is such that they aren't able to exercise this and need to follow more structure to be successful in the long term.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Feb 6, 2018 9:23:18 GMT -6
This is soul crushing to me. I really think it's what stops me from meeting my body goals. I cannot fathom counting calories and tracking what I eat, day in day out for THE REST OF MY LIFE. And I reject any sentiment that it won't be necessary to track and put major mental effort into food choices forever because I have seen time and time again how easy it is to push pause on those things and settle right back into the 20 pounds I just lost. I want to kick and scream and break things because I don't want to put in the effort to maintain a healthy diet forever and ever. And yet I'm so tired of carrying this extra weight. So tired. Supposedly, you won't have to count calories and track what you eat forever and ever. The goal is to get where you want to be and after doing it for so long, you just know what to eat. You can have cheat meals and treats but then you just go back to your regularly scheduled, healthier eating lifestyle. This is what I hear anyway, I still like to shove pizzas in my face. I think for me the "for so long" has to be years, not months.
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
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Post by McBenny on Feb 6, 2018 9:26:48 GMT -6
This was not my take away to the conversation on Friday at all. As for the article, ok cool.
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shadows
Sapphire
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Post by shadows on Feb 6, 2018 9:27:50 GMT -6
With respect to some of the comments re: people who are "naturally" thin: I really am naturally thin (well, I'm currently 8 months pregnant, but normally), but I try to avoid talking about it as much as possible b/c I find it to be super awkward. And I feel like people are judge-y.
Anyway, I'm definitely "skinny fat"; I'm way too sedentary. I hope to remedy this after this baby is born both b/c I'd like to look better and b/c I'd like to healthier.
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