January royals

[angelashly]

Jan 12, 2023 11:00:23 GMT -6 Eagles said:

Jan 12, 2023 10:41:46 GMT -6 angelashly said:

That’s fine let the tailor tell Meghan that. I don’t know I’m not a good person to talk as I’ve said earlier I am just learning to speak my mind with family but I just would have said thanks and went to the tailor and left it alone

I hear you. I also know from the vendor side that we try to never, never let the couple know when things are really wrong because our job is to fix it magically with them none the wiser. It's usually family or friends who give it away (and add stress) and we're like ZIP IT WE'RE WORKING ON IT

I can see that. I redid so much of my sister’s shit while my mom wanted to ask her opinions. No I know what she wanted I’ll fix it go give her another virgin mimosa

[angelashly]

Jan 12, 2023 11:04:19 GMT -6 swellist said:

The imagined “well Kate could’ve…” and “But Meg should’ve…” options that we can all come up with really highlight that the media treatment of this makes it an unwinnable cat fight designed to mask how bad the men look in literally every aspect of Royal politics.

I’m going to avoid further discussion of the bridesmaid dresses because I’m honestly getting frustrated with the alternate scenarios game.

I’ll sit on your bench

[angelashly]

I want Kate’s coat and I’m not even a big plaid person. I love the green with the navy all of it.

[framboise]

The dress story is also being told by someone who wasn't a part of it. We have no idea what really happened if anything at all. Harry was not there. So whatever Meg may have told him, what is in the book may not be what actually happened.

[STP]

Jan 12, 2023 10:18:01 GMT -6 angelashly said:

Jan 12, 2023 9:42:09 GMT -6 STP said:

Bc she had two young children and a brand new baby, and was likely exhausted?

You guys are really harsh. If she’d helped it’d have been Kate is overbearing and tried to take over.

I don’t think it’s harsh to say that Kate could have just taken the dress to the tailor. She texted Meghan said the dress was to big Meghan said ok we have a tailor on sight can you take her there. Kate says no the dresses need redone. When all she had to say was cool thanks and taken the dress.

Meghan could have said hey if you want I can take Charlotte to make it easier. Like you keep pointing out we weren’t there so we don’t know Kate’s tone nor Meghan’s.



ETA: I’m not saying Meghan did say that I’m saying that could have been an option too

But we don't know if that was allowed. If the tailor/planner/lady in waiting said "we will deal with it, if there are any problems."

Or that Kate is big B. Or M was a controlling b. Or they were both fine and this is a nothingburger. 

The would have, could have, should have. How can we speak with any presumed authority on that when we weren't there?!

[MelanieCarmichael]

Jan 12, 2023 11:05:08 GMT -6 angelashly said:

Jan 12, 2023 11:04:19 GMT -6 swellist said:

The imagined “well Kate could’ve…” and “But Meg should’ve…” options that we can all come up with really highlight that the media treatment of this makes it an unwinnable cat fight designed to mask how bad the men look in literally every aspect of Royal politics.

I’m going to avoid further discussion of the bridesmaid dresses because I’m honestly getting frustrated with the alternate scenarios game.

I’ll sit on your bench

Scooch over. I'm more than ready to move on from this topic.

[MelanieCarmichael]

Jan 12, 2023 11:05:52 GMT -6 angelashly said:

I want Kate’s coat and I’m not even a big plaid person. I love the green with the navy all of it.

I love plaid and love the color combo of navy and green. 

[angelashly]

Jan 12, 2023 11:11:21 GMT -6 STP said:

Jan 12, 2023 10:18:01 GMT -6 angelashly said:

I don’t think it’s harsh to say that Kate could have just taken the dress to the tailor. She texted Meghan said the dress was to big Meghan said ok we have a tailor on sight can you take her there. Kate says no the dresses need redone. When all she had to say was cool thanks and taken the dress.

Meghan could have said hey if you want I can take Charlotte to make it easier. Like you keep pointing out we weren’t there so we don’t know Kate’s tone nor Meghan’s.



ETA: I’m not saying Meghan did say that I’m saying that could have been an option too

But we don't know if that was allowed. If the tailor/planner/lady in waiting said "we will deal with it, if there are any problems."

Or that Kate is big B. Or M was a controlling b. Or they were both fine and this is a nothingburger. 

The would have, could have, should have. How can we speak with any presumed authority on that when we weren't there?!

Yes Harry could be lying about the texts but it said meghan told her to go to the tailor. I think you are right that they both probably had a tone over it all.

But you are right we weren’t there and they are over it so I will be over it.

[angelashly]

Jan 12, 2023 11:09:39 GMT -6 framboise said:

The dress story is also being told by someone who wasn't a part of it. We have no idea what really happened if anything at all. Harry was not there. So whatever Meg may have told him, what is in the book may not be what actually happened.

I mean sure but he also could very well have seen the texts. When my sil would text me shitty I would show my h

But yes I will now move on

[angelashly]

But seriously I would love Kate’s coat closet.

Not her coat dresses but her real coats. they are all pretty

[newspapers]

I really like Kate's outfit today.

[angelashly]

[RajahMD]

Jan 12, 2023 10:59:05 GMT -6 angelashly said:

Jan 12, 2023 10:41:14 GMT -6 Eagles said:

I think the focus is on the dresses because catfights (imagined and real) sell.

Which is shitty and misogynistic.

If we are arguing about how terrible the women were to each other we aren’t talking about Will and Harry’s shenanigans

Deflect deflect deflect

That's all that family knows. So now the wives are getting thrown under the bus. Just like Charles threw his sons under the bus, and Willy throws Harold under the bus. And apparently Camilla just throws everyone under the bus.

[Radley]

Kate looks great. I even like what William is wearing.

[imapenguin]

I just wish I could be a fly in the wall in all the palace offices this week. It’d be heaven.

[angelashly]

Jan 12, 2023 11:53:56 GMT -6 imapenguin said:

I just wish I could be a fly in the wall in all the palace offices this week. It’d be heaven.

Yes

[byjove]

[Eagles]

Jan 12, 2023 11:30:38 GMT -6 angelashly said:

Will looks like a grandpa who doesn't understand selfies.

[MelanieCarmichael]

Jan 12, 2023 9:40:48 GMT -6 STP said:

He’s been on every platform available, the fuck is exclusive about it at this point?

I side-eyed that, too, but that's how People phrased it and yeah, that exclusive ship has sailed.

[angelashly]

Jan 12, 2023 12:11:09 GMT -6 Eagles said:

Jan 12, 2023 11:30:38 GMT -6 angelashly said:

Will looks like a grandpa who doesn't understand selfies.

Well they used to not do it right?? I remember it being a thing before

But also they do it in private and he thinks it’s so relatable to be all old about things

[willow]

One big takeaway for me from the book was just how absolutely terrible of a father Charles really is. I mean, there are worse out there, for sure, but man. I simply cannot fathom allowing bad, false, harmful stories to come out about one of my children and witness them repeatedly beg me for help only to just tell them to "ignore it". And worse, make sure those bad stories stay the center of attention for my own self preservation. I'd rather the media call me every awful name in existence than have one fabricated and damaging story come out about one of my children.

[Radley]

I finally listened to the You're Wrong About: Princess Diana podcast episodes. I don't understand why everyone thinks William and Harry would have been okay had she survived? William was already 15 when she died and weren't they primarily in Charles' custody? Plus she wasn't great at communication or conflict resolution. She had a temper as evident by pushing her step-mom, Raine, down the stairs and throwing her (Raine) out of her house the day after her (Diana's) dad died. Like she was empathetic to causes and she had a slightly more down to earth persona but idk that I think Will and Harry would have been much better off (obviously minus the trauma of losing their mother).

[willow]

Radley I mean, not losing their mom in a desperately tragic way as teenagers and then getting absolutely no counseling in general is a pretty HUGE check in the "they'd be better off" column, so I'm not sure your point.

Moreover, her personal shortcomings aside, Diana absolutely hated the press and, while speculative, it stands to reason that she may have been more of a help to both of them as they got older and the stories became more about them.

[beepers]

My question is how far back does this tactic go? Did Phillip sell/allow/leak stories re: Charles to deflect off him? The Queen’s “never complain never explain”… was that hers or from her father?

It seems like prior to King George (idk what number, whichever one came last) the BRF were this mysterious entity that nobody in general society had a handle on. Did he ever need to shine the spotlight somewhere else to detract on his own issues? Or did he just ride the coattails of the Edward scandal and assume nothing he was ever going to do would be that newsworthy (at the time).

Disclaimer: most of these assumptions are based from watching The Crown. (Like the scene where they host the first open or public garden party)

[claudia]

Jan 12, 2023 12:54:28 GMT -6 beepers said:

My question is how far back does this tactic go? Did Phillip sell/allow/leak stories re: Charles to deflect off him? The Queen’s “never complain never explain”… was that hers or from her father?

It seems like prior to King George (idk what number, whichever one came last) the BRF were this mysterious entity that nobody in general society had a handle on. Did he ever need to shine the spotlight somewhere else to detract on his own issues? Or did he just ride the coattails of the Edward scandal and assume nothing he was ever going to do would be that newsworthy (at the time).

Disclaimer: most of these assumptions are based from watching The Crown. (Like the scene where they host the first open or public garden party)

I think the more invasive nature of the press is what changed this.  

George moved the family back into the spotlight because he said the public wouldn't keep paying for them if they never saw them.  I doubt he ever had to shift the focus away from himself, but I think he did play a role in hiding some of Edward's scandals.

[angelashly]

Jan 12, 2023 12:50:42 GMT -6 Radley said:

I finally listened to the You're Wrong About: Princess Diana podcast episodes. I don't understand why everyone thinks William and Harry would have been okay had she survived? William was already 15 when she died and weren't they primarily in Charles' custody? Plus she wasn't great at communication or conflict resolution. She had a temper as evident by pushing her step-mom, Raine, down the stairs and throwing her (Raine) out of her house the day after her (Diana's) dad died. Like she was empathetic to causes and she had a slightly more down to earth persona but idk that I think Will and Harry would have been much better off (obviously minus the trauma of losing their mother).

I mean not losing their mother to a horrific accident that was partially caused by the media with no counseling and being made to walk behind her casket, do walkabouts, and never talk about her to the press can do some damage.

Without personally knowing any of them or there with any of them she seemed like a good mom who they looked up to. Could it be they Saint her now that she is gone maybe but I do think she would have offered some balance.

That all said I don’t think that Diana dying is the only thing that made them the way they are despite it being used as an excuse a lot

[Radley]

Jan 12, 2023 12:53:37 GMT -6 willow said:

Radley I mean, not losing their mom in a desperately tragic way as teenagers and then getting absolutely no counseling in general is a pretty HUGE check in the "they'd be better off" column, so I'm not sure your point.

Moreover, her personal shortcomings aside, Diana absolutely hated the press and, while speculative, it stands to reason that she may have been more of a help to both of them as they got older and the stories became more about them.

I should have said "I dont think they would have been much better people". I think they would still be spoiled, still be products of their class, still have tempers, still be bad at problem solving. And honestly although Diana had a better grasp on what the people wanted from the Royals, she clearly struggled with handling the media. She fostered their attention and spun things her way in an attempt at controlling the narrative. She lied about the book she had a hand in, I don't see this as much different than how to rest of the family deals with press, she just did it better. Maybe she wouldn't leak shit about her kids though, I do give her that. 

[STP]

Jan 12, 2023 12:50:42 GMT -6 Radley said:

I finally listened to the You're Wrong About: Princess Diana podcast episodes. I don't understand why everyone thinks William and Harry would have been okay had she survived? William was already 15 when she died and weren't they primarily in Charles' custody? Plus she wasn't great at communication or conflict resolution. She had a temper as evident by pushing her step-mom, Raine, down the stairs and throwing her (Raine) out of her house the day after her (Diana's) dad died. Like she was empathetic to causes and she had a slightly more down to earth persona but idk that I think Will and Harry would have been much better off (obviously minus the trauma of losing their mother).

Diana was a good soul and a hot mess express. And yes, the boys were mostly at the palace when not in school. 

It's a lovely narrative more than factual rooting, for me, but of course that's conjecture and there's no way to know. 

[STP]

Diana was pretty spoiled and pretty bratty. She was engaging in a lot of weird relationship stuff, some with married men. She was stalking wives, making weird phone calls. Falling IN LOVE within moments only to fall into DEEP HATE quickly thereafter.

That's just true.

Dodi was...a shady dude.

Of course the fundamental tragedy of losing your mom, and in that way, is profoundly shaping.

But yeah, the "if only Diana had lived they'd be fine" idea feels naive. And before anyone says "no one is saying that" meh. Kind of sometimes in the past. It's ok, it's commonly said in general.

[willow]

Jan 12, 2023 13:03:03 GMT -6 Radley said:

Jan 12, 2023 12:53:37 GMT -6 willow said:

Radley I mean, not losing their mom in a desperately tragic way as teenagers and then getting absolutely no counseling in general is a pretty HUGE check in the "they'd be better off" column, so I'm not sure your point.

Moreover, her personal shortcomings aside, Diana absolutely hated the press and, while speculative, it stands to reason that she may have been more of a help to both of them as they got older and the stories became more about them.

I should have said "I dont think they would have been much better people". I think they would still be spoiled, still be products of their class, still have tempers, still be bad at problem solving. And honestly although Diana had a better grasp on what the people wanted from the Royals, she clearly struggled with handling the media. She fostered their attention and spun things her way in an attempt at controlling the narrative. She lied about the book she had a hand in, I don't see this as much different than how to rest of the family deals with press, she just did it better. Maybe she wouldn't leak shit about her kids though, I do give her that. 

I don't disagree that their inherent personalities would have remained the same. I just think it is hard to ignore a massive traumatic event like that and how it cascades into the person's future and how they balance things or approach conflict. Especially since they were never given a chance to process their grief or even talk about it with basically anyone. Discussing her was forbidden. All of it was just extremely toxic and I think it is hard to separate it from who they are now.