January royals

[Eagles]

Jan 10, 2023 9:41:00 GMT -6 downwarddog said:

Jan 10, 2023 9:36:25 GMT -6 Eagles said:

Something I've been thinking about is that Will and Harry agreed that the 20th anniversary documentary was going to be the last time they talked about her death publicly. Now, William has obviously broken a lot of promises to Harry since then and Harry also has every right to share his story at any time. But even though William is a bullying angry asshole who helped make his brother's life hell, part of me feels bad for him that this really traumatic thing that is probably at the root of a lot of his issues is being dragged out into the public sphere again. As much as the whole world wanted to claim her loss, the brothers are the two people who lost the most that night.

I totally agree with this. Some things should be held more sacred. 

To be fair, the promise they made to each other as brothers to not engage in the petty press game should have been sacred. So I get that Harold might not feel like he owes Willy anything when it comes to promises.

I'll just always be sad for two boys who lost their mother in a horrific instant and had to endure a global mourning cycle with them at the visible center of it.

[angelashly]

Jan 10, 2023 9:36:25 GMT -6 Eagles said:

Jan 10, 2023 9:27:00 GMT -6 angelashly said:

I’m laughing at all the fact checking going on

And the comparison that Will also lost his mother and had to walk behind his mother’s casket too and no one cares about that. It wasn’t just Harry’s loss

Something I've been thinking about is that Will and Harry agreed that the 20th anniversary documentary was going to be the last time they talked about her death publicly. Now, William has obviously broken a lot of promises to Harry since then and Harry also has every right to share his story at any time. But even though William is a bullying angry asshole who helped make his brother's life hell, part of me feels bad for him that this really traumatic thing that is probably at the root of a lot of his issues is being dragged out into the public sphere again. As much as the whole world wanted to claim her loss, the brothers are the two people who lost the most that night.

I didn’t know about the documentary being the last they said they would talk publicly about it. If so I get it but I don’t know if I feel bad. I guess I do in the sense that I’ve lost a parent so I get it and of course some don’t want to continue to talk about it, but also that’s a hard promise to make because everyone grieves differently and a memoir without it would be weird. People already feel he is disingenuous could you imagine if he didn’t write about her?

But also Harry could easily not talk about her in interviews at least. I don’t know it’s so hard.

But yes I do think Will broke that trust with the media stuff he did. Plus Will may not talk about her but he does other things to “honor” her especially with Kate.

Again I don’t know parent loss is so so hard.

[Eagles]

Jan 10, 2023 10:02:17 GMT -6 angelashly said:

Jan 10, 2023 9:36:25 GMT -6 Eagles said:

Something I've been thinking about is that Will and Harry agreed that the 20th anniversary documentary was going to be the last time they talked about her death publicly. Now, William has obviously broken a lot of promises to Harry since then and Harry also has every right to share his story at any time. But even though William is a bullying angry asshole who helped make his brother's life hell, part of me feels bad for him that this really traumatic thing that is probably at the root of a lot of his issues is being dragged out into the public sphere again. As much as the whole world wanted to claim her loss, the brothers are the two people who lost the most that night.

I didn’t know about the documentary being the last they said they would talk publicly about it. If so I get it but I don’t know if I feel bad. I guess I do in the sense that I’ve lost a parent so I get it and of course some don’t want to continue to talk about it, but also that’s a hard promise to make because everyone grieves differently and a memoir without it would be weird. People already feel he is disingenuous could you imagine if he didn’t write about her?

But also Harry could easily not talk about her in interviews at least. I don’t know it’s so hard.

But yes I do think Will broke that trust with the media stuff he did. Plus Will may not talk about her but he does other things to “honor” her especially with Kate.

Again I don’t know parent loss is so so hard.

I feel bad for the broken kids that still live somewhere inside the two of them. I hope that makes sense.

[STP]

Jan 10, 2023 9:51:25 GMT -6 Eagles said:

Jan 10, 2023 9:41:00 GMT -6 downwarddog said:

I totally agree with this. Some things should be held more sacred. 

To be fair, the promise they made to each other as brothers to not engage in the petty press game should have been sacred. So I get that Harold might not feel like he owes Willy anything when it comes to promises.

I'll just always be sad for two boys who lost their mother in a horrific instant and had to endure a global mourning cycle with them at the visible center of it.

And then were kept separate, out of therapy, not encouraged to bond over that loss and be of comfort to one another.

Sent back to boarding schools instead of pulled tight into the family.

All of it.

Willy is a shithead. But my God was he not treated right as a child. 

[downwarddog]

Jan 10, 2023 9:51:25 GMT -6 Eagles said:

Jan 10, 2023 9:41:00 GMT -6 downwarddog said:

I totally agree with this. Some things should be held more sacred. 

To be fair, the promise they made to each other as brothers to not engage in the petty press game should have been sacred. So I get that Harold might not feel like he owes Willy anything when it comes to promises.

I'll just always be sad for two boys who lost their mother in a horrific instant and had to endure a global mourning cycle with them at the visible center of it.

I agree with that too. I lost my dad when I was close to Harry's age, and I think there is just something sacred about it (to use the same word again) and the grief and feelings around that fall into a different category, esp among siblings who only have each other to commiserate with. I can see Harry saying fuck it, I owe that asshole nothing; I can also see William going, I can't believe he stooped that low. 

[STP]

Jan 10, 2023 10:09:06 GMT -6 Eagles said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:02:17 GMT -6 angelashly said:

I didn’t know about the documentary being the last they said they would talk publicly about it. If so I get it but I don’t know if I feel bad. I guess I do in the sense that I’ve lost a parent so I get it and of course some don’t want to continue to talk about it, but also that’s a hard promise to make because everyone grieves differently and a memoir without it would be weird. People already feel he is disingenuous could you imagine if he didn’t write about her?

But also Harry could easily not talk about her in interviews at least. I don’t know it’s so hard.

But yes I do think Will broke that trust with the media stuff he did. Plus Will may not talk about her but he does other things to “honor” her especially with Kate.

Again I don’t know parent loss is so so hard.

I feel bad for the broken kids that still live somewhere inside the two of them. I hope that makes sense.

One thousand percent.

And for me, H talking about his loss and how he coped is the part I'm actually really here for. Grief is so complicated and still so taboo. So I am always glad when a public figure is willing to delve into it. 

BUT he has no right to tell Will's story and he is. That part feels really wrong to me. 

[bobyn]

If anything positive comes from this, I hope it's that we never stop referring to them as Willy and Harold.

[STP]

I also think, oddly, the talking about Diana stuff is why they will never be able to mend. I think Willy could have let go of a lot of it, but something tells me that was the fatal topic and H knew it. So I continue to find the "I just want my family again" thing disingenuous.

And that's fine if he never wants to talk to them again, but be honest.

[downwarddog]

I would hate to be Kate right now (well, anytime, but esp right now). I don't imagine Will is pleasant to live with at the moment.

[MelanieCarmichael]

Jan 10, 2023 10:09:06 GMT -6 Eagles said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:02:17 GMT -6 angelashly said:

I didn’t know about the documentary being the last they said they would talk publicly about it. If so I get it but I don’t know if I feel bad. I guess I do in the sense that I’ve lost a parent so I get it and of course some don’t want to continue to talk about it, but also that’s a hard promise to make because everyone grieves differently and a memoir without it would be weird. People already feel he is disingenuous could you imagine if he didn’t write about her?

But also Harry could easily not talk about her in interviews at least. I don’t know it’s so hard.

But yes I do think Will broke that trust with the media stuff he did. Plus Will may not talk about her but he does other things to “honor” her especially with Kate.

Again I don’t know parent loss is so so hard.

I feel bad for the broken kids that still live somewhere inside the two of them. I hope that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense.

There are many, too many, who have lost their parent(s) at a tender age, but few have had to share their loss and their grief and their trauma with the world and playing it out like some macabre pageant before millions. And with a family ill-equipped to handle it, thus their actions in the immediate aftermath and the years that followed. It's such a shame that the one thing that should have bonded Will and Harry forever, who are the sole individuals who know what it was like to be in the other's shoes for those very dark days and months and years following their mother's death, has only served to move them further apart. 

[claudia]

Jan 10, 2023 10:09:54 GMT -6 downwarddog said:

Jan 10, 2023 9:51:25 GMT -6 Eagles said:

To be fair, the promise they made to each other as brothers to not engage in the petty press game should have been sacred. So I get that Harold might not feel like he owes Willy anything when it comes to promises.

I'll just always be sad for two boys who lost their mother in a horrific instant and had to endure a global mourning cycle with them at the visible center of it.

I agree with that too. I lost my dad when I was close to Harry's age, and I think there is just something sacred about it (to use the same word again) and the grief and feelings around that fall into a different category, esp among siblings who only have each other to commiserate with. I can see Harry saying fuck it, I owe that asshole nothing; I can also see William going, I can't believe he stooped that low. 

I haven’t gotten to this part of the actual book yet, but yesterday I was reading an excerpt where after Philip’s funeral, Harry requested a talk with Charles and Willy. Willy got physical again, grabbing Harold by his shirt collar and not letting him move, but then at one point Willy said “on Mummy’s life” and Harold said that was always their sacred term.

[angelashly]

Jan 10, 2023 10:09:06 GMT -6 Eagles said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:02:17 GMT -6 angelashly said:

I didn’t know about the documentary being the last they said they would talk publicly about it. If so I get it but I don’t know if I feel bad. I guess I do in the sense that I’ve lost a parent so I get it and of course some don’t want to continue to talk about it, but also that’s a hard promise to make because everyone grieves differently and a memoir without it would be weird. People already feel he is disingenuous could you imagine if he didn’t write about her?

But also Harry could easily not talk about her in interviews at least. I don’t know it’s so hard.

But yes I do think Will broke that trust with the media stuff he did. Plus Will may not talk about her but he does other things to “honor” her especially with Kate.

Again I don’t know parent loss is so so hard.

I feel bad for the broken kids that still live somewhere inside the two of them. I hope that makes sense.

Yes! That makes 100% sense and I can agree with that

[MelanieCarmichael]

Jan 10, 2023 10:16:07 GMT -6 STP said:

I also think, oddly, the talking about Diana stuff is why they will never be able to mend. I think Willy could have let go of a lot of it, but something tells me that was the fatal topic and H knew it. So I continue to find the "I just want my family again" thing disingenuous.

And that's fine if he never wants to talk to them again, but be honest.

I actually don't find it disingenuous. I think there is a part of Harry, knowing Will is his closest link to their mother and the closeness they once shared, that still loves and misses his brother, that might still find himself reaching for his phone to text or call. I think it's there with "Pa" Charles as well. It's actually something I find very relatable about Harry.

I mean, I basically have a text a few times a year relationship with my own father and even though he's treated me decidedly unfatherly for much of my life and I'm a lot of "fuck him," there is still that little girl inside of me that just wants her dad and doesn't understand why he doesn't want me. No matter the years of therapy I've had, it's still there, much as I ignore that nagging little pang most of the time.

[Eagles]

Jan 10, 2023 10:31:11 GMT -6 MelanieCarmichael said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:16:07 GMT -6 STP said:

I also think, oddly, the talking about Diana stuff is why they will never be able to mend. I think Willy could have let go of a lot of it, but something tells me that was the fatal topic and H knew it. So I continue to find the "I just want my family again" thing disingenuous.

And that's fine if he never wants to talk to them again, but be honest.

I actually don't find it disingenuous. I think there is a part of Harry, knowing Will is his closest link to their mother and the closeness they once shared, that still loves and misses his brother, that might still find himself reaching for his phone to text or call. I think it's there with "Pa" Charles as well. It's actually something I find very relatable about Harry.

I mean, I basically have a text a few times a year relationship with my own father and even though he's treated me decidedly unfatherly for much of my life, there is still that little girl inside of me that just wants her dad and doesn't understand why he doesn't want me. No matter the years of therapy I've had, it's still there, much as I ignore that nagging little pang most of the time.

Your second paragraph resonates with me very deeply. ❤️

[angelashly]

Jan 10, 2023 10:27:08 GMT -6 MelanieCarmichael said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:09:06 GMT -6 Eagles said:

I feel bad for the broken kids that still live somewhere inside the two of them. I hope that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense.

There are many, too many, who have lost their parent(s) at a tender age, but few have had to share their loss and their grief and their trauma with the world and playing it out like some macabre pageant before millions. And with a family ill-equipped to handle it, thus their actions in the immediate aftermath and the years that followed. It's such a shame that the one thing that should have bonded Will and Harry forever, who are the sole individuals who know what it was like to be in the other's shoes for those very dark days and months and years following their mother's death, has only served to move them further apart. 

My sister and I very rarely talk about our father together. Luckily we are close so no need to but he is just not a topic with my family. The only time I see him mentioned by her was when she took her kids to the gravesite to meet him and posted the pictures and a picture at her wedding

Sometimes I hate it because while I talk to my h and dd about him and my aunts are good about it if I need to I miss that talk with my sister, BUT I also don’t push it because she was 11 and I was 18 so she was so young and it isn’t right to push the other which I can see Harry doing

[angelashly]

Jan 10, 2023 10:31:11 GMT -6 MelanieCarmichael said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:16:07 GMT -6 STP said:

I also think, oddly, the talking about Diana stuff is why they will never be able to mend. I think Willy could have let go of a lot of it, but something tells me that was the fatal topic and H knew it. So I continue to find the "I just want my family again" thing disingenuous.

And that's fine if he never wants to talk to them again, but be honest.

I actually don't find it disingenuous. I think there is a part of Harry, knowing Will is his closest link to their mother and the closeness they once shared, that still loves and misses his brother, that might still find himself reaching for his phone to text or call. I think it's there with "Pa" Charles as well. It's actually something I find very relatable about Harry.

I mean, I basically have a text a few times a year relationship with my own father and even though he's treated me decidedly unfatherly for much of my life and I'm a lot of "fuck him," there is still that little girl inside of me that just wants her dad and doesn't understand why he doesn't want me. No matter the years of therapy I've had, it's still there, much as I ignore that nagging little pang most of the time.

Gawd yes. I have biological mom issues I can’t even put into words but this is a close start to what I feel and I haven’t talked to her since my niece was 2 and she is 15 now. Oh minus a 2 minute in passing at a funeral we both happened to be at

[claudia]

For years and now in this book, there are all these stories of William having anger issues. While it could be his personality and entitlement, it’s also such a common trauma response in kids that you wonder how much of it is from that- as well as Harry’s often stunted type responses.

I’m not trying to excuse him assaulting Harry at all, but I just think they both needed so much help that they didn’t get.

[angelashly]

Jan 10, 2023 10:40:29 GMT -6 claudia said:

For years and now in this book, there are all these stories of William having anger issues. While it could be his personality and entitlement, it’s also such a common trauma response in kids that you wonder how much of it is from that- as well as Harry’s often stunted type responses.

I’m not trying to excuse him assaulting Harry at all, but I just think they both needed so much help that they didn’t get.

Yes I won’t tell my older sister’s story but yes. Therapy helped her so much and I thank my now BIL daily for pushing it

[xtine22]

Jan 10, 2023 10:09:15 GMT -6 STP said:

Jan 10, 2023 9:51:25 GMT -6 Eagles said:

To be fair, the promise they made to each other as brothers to not engage in the petty press game should have been sacred. So I get that Harold might not feel like he owes Willy anything when it comes to promises.

I'll just always be sad for two boys who lost their mother in a horrific instant and had to endure a global mourning cycle with them at the visible center of it.

And then were kept separate, out of therapy, not encouraged to bond over that loss and be of comfort to one another.

Sent back to boarding schools instead of pulled tight into the family.

All of it.

Willy is a shithead. But my God was he not treated right as a child. 

I’m assuming he would alway be a shithead but had they handle it all even slightly better he probably would be slightly less of one… hopefully

[angelashly]

Jan 10, 2023 10:44:11 GMT -6 xtine22 said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:09:15 GMT -6 STP said:

And then were kept separate, out of therapy, not encouraged to bond over that loss and be of comfort to one another.

Sent back to boarding schools instead of pulled tight into the family.

All of it.

Willy is a shithead. But my God was he not treated right as a child. 

I’m assuming he would alway be a shithead but had they handle it all even slightly better he probably would be slightly less of one… hopefully

I think if they were kept together and gotten the proper help they would have supported each other and I think it would have helped with Meghan some. But I do 100% believe H&M got to popular and Will felt threatened. Whether that was his upbringing of being the “important” one or what we will never know because he will never talk

[STP]

Jan 10, 2023 10:31:11 GMT -6 MelanieCarmichael said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:16:07 GMT -6 STP said:

I also think, oddly, the talking about Diana stuff is why they will never be able to mend. I think Willy could have let go of a lot of it, but something tells me that was the fatal topic and H knew it. So I continue to find the "I just want my family again" thing disingenuous.

And that's fine if he never wants to talk to them again, but be honest.

I actually don't find it disingenuous. I think there is a part of Harry, knowing Will is his closest link to their mother and the closeness they once shared, that still loves and misses his brother, that might still find himself reaching for his phone to text or call. I think it's there with "Pa" Charles as well. It's actually something I find very relatable about Harry.

I mean, I basically have a text a few times a year relationship with my own father and even though he's treated me decidedly unfatherly for much of my life and I'm a lot of "fuck him," there is still that little girl inside of me that just wants her dad and doesn't understand why he doesn't want me. No matter the years of therapy I've had, it's still there, much as I ignore that nagging little pang most of the time.

You don't make snarky, snide comments about his looks and talk about his penis and all the rest and still genuinely think you didn't just blow up that bridge. 

So whether or not he wants to call them, he is publicly saying things - knowingly - that are the end of the relationship. 

[STP]

Guys, the point isn't that he might want them to have a relationship deep down.

But he is knowingly talking in the pettiest ways possible about shit that has nothing to do with "his story."

So the "I just want us to get along, also yeah it was funny when I said his semblance to our dead mother has faded with age" shit is disingenuous.

If he said "I'm pissed as fuck and lashing out" that would be honest. I understand there are lived experiences being grafted on here, but you can see that's not the same given the public facing reality here?

[STP]

Jan 10, 2023 10:46:48 GMT -6 angelashly said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:44:11 GMT -6 xtine22 said:

I’m assuming he would alway be a shithead but had they handle it all even slightly better he probably would be slightly less of one… hopefully

I think if they were kept together and gotten the proper help they would have supported each other and I think it would have helped with Meghan some. But I do 100% believe H&M got to popular and Will felt threatened. Whether that was his upbringing of being the “important” one or what we will never know because he will never talk

Obviously. 

No one is saying W doesn't suck here. 

[STP]

I actually gasped out loud a the "his resemblance to our mother fading with age" line.

That was, to me, so low. And why I'm just off the H train completely.

Will sucks. It doesn't make it ok. I would never be able to forgive that comment. To use the mom like that - and that's what that is, let us not with the tedious he's just making an observation thing - is mean. 

It's just mean. 

[angelashly]

Great article

share.newsbreak.com/2rkxvw17

[angelashly]

Jan 10, 2023 10:49:13 GMT -6 STP said:

Guys, the point isn't that he might want them to have a relationship deep down.

But he is knowingly talking in the pettiest ways possible about shit that has nothing to do with "his story."

So the "I just want us to get along, also yeah it was funny when I said his semblance to our daed mother has faded with age" shit is disingenuous.

If he said "I'm pissed as fuck and lashing out" that would be honest. I understand there are lived experiences being grafted on here, but you can see that's not the same given the public facing reality here?

I get it I do but I said some awful shit about my mom to her family when they asked and didn’t care if she found out about it and in fact said it knowing that she would. I still wished she would wake up and call me and fix things. But I knew that may not be possible with what I said. So I understand what you are saying but I can see him deep down hoping it can be fixed

[angelashly]

Jan 10, 2023 10:51:19 GMT -6 STP said:

I actually gasped out loud a the "his resemblance to our mother fading with age" line.

That was, to me, so low. And why I'm just off the H train completely.

Will sucks. It doesn't make it ok. I would never be able to forgive that comment. To use the mom like that - and that's what that is, let us not with the tedious he's just making an observation thing - is mean. 

It's just mean. 

Yes it just something not to say.

[miawallace]

This is so far the point of getting fixed. The only way I see something happening is if Harry and Meg split. It would definitely be painted as the return of the prodigal son though.

[angelashly]

Jan 10, 2023 10:58:33 GMT -6 miawallace said:

This is so far the point of getting fixed. The only way I see something happening is if Harry and Meg split. It would definitely be painted as the return of the prodigal son though.

Oh for sure

[MelanieCarmichael]

Jan 10, 2023 10:56:42 GMT -6 angelashly said:

Jan 10, 2023 10:49:13 GMT -6 STP said:

Guys, the point isn't that he might want them to have a relationship deep down.

But he is knowingly talking in the pettiest ways possible about shit that has nothing to do with "his story."

So the "I just want us to get along, also yeah it was funny when I said his semblance to our daed mother has faded with age" shit is disingenuous.

If he said "I'm pissed as fuck and lashing out" that would be honest. I understand there are lived experiences being grafted on here, but you can see that's not the same given the public facing reality here?

I get it I do but I said some awful shit about my mom to her family when they asked and didn’t care if she found out about it and in fact said it knowing that she would. I still wished she would wake up and call me and fix things. But I knew that may not be possible with what I said. So I understand what you are saying but I can see him deep down hoping it can be fixed

I have said some less than charitable things about my father over the years - some deserved, some perhaps not - to his face and to others that I knew would get back to him. Am I proud of the less than fair comments? Of course not, but I'm human and coming from a place of hurt and betrayal so forgive me for not always being in full control of my emotions. And yet there is still that Charlie Brown wanting to kick the football part of me hoping for something I know I'll never get. And I know, too, that saying whatever was said would not change what is our relationship (or lack thereof) just as I don't think this docuseries or book or interviews et al is the bridge too far for Harry and his family, that bridge was burned a long time ago, IMO, and to varying degrees by both sides.