byjove
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Post by byjove on Mar 1, 2022 5:55:48 GMT -6
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Mar 1, 2022 5:57:35 GMT -6
First rundown of the briefing to Congress I've seen: I knew this wasnβt going to be over quickly, but the thought that this is weeks or months away is awful. It would be nice if this led us to actually pass a budget though.
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TheoV2
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Post by TheoV2 on Mar 1, 2022 6:04:43 GMT -6
crimsonandclover, when I say Russia, I mean Putin and other government officials in charge, not the people of Russia.
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TheoV2
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Post by TheoV2 on Mar 1, 2022 6:05:17 GMT -6
Also, I truly find no joy or glee in any of this. It's horrifying on all levels.
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Post by treeofheaven on Mar 1, 2022 6:20:31 GMT -6
I was watching a video of a captured Russian soldier calling his mom. He told her they were told they were going in as peacekeepers, but they are the aggressors. That tracks with Putin's official stance on this as a "peacekeeping mission".Β I'm not calling these soldiers liars but when has Putin/Russia ever acted as peacekeepers? When have they ever been anything other than aggressors?
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Mar 1, 2022 6:28:00 GMT -6
Charges brought at the Hague and a trial for war crimes should be the outcome. Don't know if that will happen, though. Russia recognize the Haag's authority over its citizens to the same extent the US does. That is: 0. I didn't find the post, but yesterday a couple people mentioned some being gleeful about punishing the Russisn people and how it's hard to separate that. As an expat who has lived abroad during the W Bush and Trump areas and was in Syria when the US offensive on Fallujah started, I beg you to separate between the leadership of a country and its people, especially in a country without free and fair elections. There are no real opinion polls there, but I am willing to bet a vast majority of Russians have no interest in attacking Ukraine and are just trying to live their lives. It's impossible to impose sanctions without hurting the people at all, but we don't have to be gleeful about it. That it an unfortunate consequence that should be minimized to the extent possible. That was my post. I said I entirely separate the majority of the people from Putin and the oligarchs, I was upset by those that don't.
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Mar 1, 2022 6:33:53 GMT -6
That tracks with Putin's official stance on this as a "peacekeeping mission".Β I'm not calling these soldiers liars but when has Putin/Russia ever acted as peacekeepers? When have they ever been anything other than aggressors? I mean the disinformation is strong. Look what they have done in the US. Grown ass people are willing to believe Putin is the hero. So for a solider to think that doesnβt surprise me. Itβs along the same lines of we (the US) are βsavingβ this country narrative weβve put out
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Mar 1, 2022 6:41:14 GMT -6
That tracks with Putin's official stance on this as a "peacekeeping mission".Β I'm not calling these soldiers liars but when has Putin/Russia ever acted as peacekeepers? When have they ever been anything other than aggressors? I think we can't overlook the extent of pro-Putin, anti-west propaganda that is churned out to Russian citizens
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Mar 1, 2022 6:43:00 GMT -6
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Mar 1, 2022 6:46:43 GMT -6
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Ls2012
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Post by Ls2012 on Mar 1, 2022 6:47:42 GMT -6
I'm not calling these soldiers liars but when has Putin/Russia ever acted as peacekeepers? When have they ever been anything other than aggressors? I think we can't overlook the extent of pro-Putin, anti-west propaganda that is churned out to Russian citizens Definitely. Think about the AI content that gets through here. It has to be so much more prolific there. It has to be confusing trying to figure out what is truth and what isn't when they're inundated by lies and disinformation. Eta: what jkjacq said.
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hawkward
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Post by hawkward on Mar 1, 2022 6:49:00 GMT -6
That tracks with Putin's official stance on this as a "peacekeeping mission".Β I'm not calling these soldiers liars but when has Putin/Russia ever acted as peacekeepers? When have they ever been anything other than aggressors? In the US military, these kids are broken down in BMT. Theyβre taught to rely heavily on their leadership because when shit is hitting the fan they need to act fast and be coordinated. If thatβs what itβs like here, I can only imagine what itβs like in Russia.
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Post by blurnette989 on Mar 1, 2022 6:53:20 GMT -6
That tracks with Putin's official stance on this as a "peacekeeping mission".Β I'm not calling these soldiers liars but when has Putin/Russia ever acted as peacekeepers? When have they ever been anything other than aggressors? When has a republican actually lost the right to bear arms? Doesn't seem to keep them from thinking it's a constant and imminent threat despite the reality we all know. The narrative in Russia is just so very, very different than what we hear and know day in and out.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Mar 1, 2022 6:54:08 GMT -6
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hawkward
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Post by hawkward on Mar 1, 2022 6:55:26 GMT -6
but the US's hands are not clean on this one.
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We dropped the MOAB too. Our country βrighteouslyβ violates our own standards all the time.
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origami
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Post by origami on Mar 1, 2022 7:22:42 GMT -6
I think a good way to think of it is like when people say "the US are warmongers" for example. Its not wrong, its also not me.
Same with the Russian people.
It's also unfortunate that much like the earlier conversation of having an ingrained distrust of Russia (which is as much the fault of our government as the fault of theirs) makes it hard to separate the two. And I'm just as guilty! But we must remember that as we're just ordinary citizens who have little control over the process, they're ordinary citizens who have absolutely zero control over the process.
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richard
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Post by richard on Mar 1, 2022 7:29:34 GMT -6
Timβs reports from Ukraine have been really informative. (Warning there is a video of a bombing of Kharkivβs city hall in the thread that is difficult to watch so skip that if you need to.)
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Post by crimsonandclover on Mar 1, 2022 7:54:19 GMT -6
Russia recognize the Haag's authority over its citizens to the same extent the US does. That is: 0. I didn't find the post, but yesterday a couple people mentioned some being gleeful about punishing the Russisn people and how it's hard to separate that. As an expat who has lived abroad during the W Bush and Trump areas and was in Syria when the US offensive on Fallujah started, I beg you to separate between the leadership of a country and its people, especially in a country without free and fair elections. There are no real opinion polls there, but I am willing to bet a vast majority of Russians have no interest in attacking Ukraine and are just trying to live their lives. It's impossible to impose sanctions without hurting the people at all, but we don't have to be gleeful about it. That it an unfortunate consequence that should be minimized to the extent possible. That was my post. I said I entirely separate the majority of the people from Putin and the oligarchs, I was upset by those that don't. Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my post. I'm fairly sure there was your post and then someone saying they understood the necessity to separate, but it's hard. And I guess what I'm trying to say is how important it is to make that effort and say something if you hear friends make comments to that effect. I protested the start of the Iraq War in DC in 2003 and then got chastised for my country's actions by Germans and was told by my Syrian host mother after almost a month in the country that it was best not to tell people I was American anymore because she was worried someone might take out their anger on me.
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Post by blurnette989 on Mar 1, 2022 7:56:30 GMT -6
richard comments on his posts are also where i saw the terrible video yesterday so do be cognizant of videos you start watching now.
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Post by crimsonandclover on Mar 1, 2022 7:58:25 GMT -6
One condition of EU membership is the applicant country cannot have any disputed borders - the EU does not want to get drawn into that mess. So I'm guessing this is mostly symbolic, because no way is Russia letting go of Crimea. Either Ukraine settles this conflict and gives up any claim to Crimea or they won't become an EU member. I cannot see the EU making an exception when it comes to a disputed border with Russia. Yikes.
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Post by enchanted on Mar 1, 2022 8:10:05 GMT -6
A quick internet search tells me either a lengthy prison term or death are the two possible sentences. Where did you read death? Capital punishment is banned in the EU and there's no way the Haag would pass that sentence. That was what came up in one of the first Google answer things. I didn't look any further than that, which is why I put the caveat that it was a quick internet search. As for your previous post, I am not finding glee in anything happening, especially not the fact that every day Russians are being punished for the actions of their leader. I do think he needs to be stopped and held accountable, but his actions are not the fault of Russian citizens. Maybe that was just a blanket statement and not meant directly for me, but you quoted me but if it was meant for me, I do take offense to it. ETA: I do apologize for putting out false information in regards to the possible sentence of a war crimes trial. That is on me for not doing further research.
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adelbert
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Post by adelbert on Mar 1, 2022 8:10:28 GMT -6
One condition of EU membership is the applicant country cannot have any disputed borders - the EU does not want to get drawn into that mess. So I'm guessing this is mostly symbolic, because no way is Russia letting go of Crimea. Either Ukraine settles this conflict and gives up any claim to Crimea or they won't become an EU member. I cannot see the EU making an exception when it comes to a disputed border with Russia. Yikes. I think it's just a symbolic gesture. Membership as you know takes years and they don't fulfill the requirements right now at all. I'm very interested to see what happens with Finland and Sweden with NATO though. That seems like a very big deal if it happens.
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Post by crimsonandclover on Mar 1, 2022 8:18:30 GMT -6
Where did you read death? Capital punishment is banned in the EU and there's no way the Haag would pass that sentence. That was what came up in one of the first Google answer things. I didn't look any further than that, which is why I put the caveat that it was a quick internet search. As for your previous post, I am not finding glee in anything happening, especially not the fact that every day Russians are being punished for the actions of their leader. I do think he needs to be stopped and held accountable, but his actions are not the fault of Russian citizens anymore. Maybe that was just a blanket statement and not meant directly for me, but you quoted me but if it was meant for me, I do take offense to it. No, no, I did not mean anyone in this thread. Some had mentioned seeing others being gleeful about it, and my plea was to those who have contact with people who express those sentiments. And there's a huge difference between saying that one is gleeful about civilians being hit by sanctions (not cool) and saying that it is necessary to separate between the government and the people but finding that difficult at times (understandable). ETA: now I see what you mean about quoting you. I was just trying to condense posts - that second part was in no way related to what you had posted, sorry I didn't make that more clear. I'm mentally and physically exhausted right now and am slipping up at work, at home, and apparently here right now.
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Post by enchanted on Mar 1, 2022 8:20:18 GMT -6
crimsonandclover I apologize then for misunderstanding, but also glad I did, you know?
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TheoV2
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Post by TheoV2 on Mar 1, 2022 8:23:16 GMT -6
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Mar 1, 2022 8:27:20 GMT -6
This as an Indian student was killed in Ukraine yesterday. Completely shameful.
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Post by enchanted on Mar 1, 2022 8:27:43 GMT -6
crimsonandclover Like Theo said, that's understandable. I'm worn down and I'm not nearly as close to it as you are. Your post yesterday (I think it was yours) explaining how close you are was eye-opening. I know Europe is smaller than the US, but it doesn't always sink in without those comparisons, you know?
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Mar 1, 2022 8:29:34 GMT -6
That was what came up in one of the first Google answer things. I didn't look any further than that, which is why I put the caveat that it was a quick internet search. As for your previous post, I am not finding glee in anything happening, especially not the fact that every day Russians are being punished for the actions of their leader. I do think he needs to be stopped and held accountable, but his actions are not the fault of Russian citizens anymore. Maybe that was just a blanket statement and not meant directly for me, but you quoted me but if it was meant for me, I do take offense to it. No, no, I did not mean anyone in this thread. Some had mentioned seeing others being gleeful about it, and my plea was to those who have contact with people who express those sentiments. And there's a huge difference between saying that one is gleeful about civilians being hit by sanctions (not cool) and saying that it is necessary to separate between the government and the people but finding that difficult at times (understandable). ETA: now I see what you mean about quoting you. I was just trying to condense posts - that second part was in no way related to what you had posted, sorry I didn't make that more clear. I'm mentally and physically exhausted right now and am slipping up at work, at home, and apparently here right now. I wasn't offended or upset either, I just wanted to be abundantly clear that I do not share that harmful sentiment in case anyone missed my earlier post
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Mar 1, 2022 8:30:33 GMT -6
This as an Indian student was killed in Ukraine yesterday. Completely shameful. Absolutely awful. Is that Poland or Ukraine, or both, driving that?
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Mar 1, 2022 8:38:24 GMT -6
This as an Indian student was killed in Ukraine yesterday. Completely shameful. Absolutely awful. Is that Poland or Ukraine, or both, driving that? Unclear
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