junch817
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Post by junch817 on Dec 16, 2021 11:30:12 GMT -6
Was anyone else worried for a second that Xander was going to give his immunity necklace to someone else, so that he could build fire? When he saw that Erika wasn’t very good at making fire, and realized it likely took her a really long time when she was exiled, I was laughing at his reaction, but then I was nervous with what he was saying after!! I was thinking, if this kid saves Heather or DeShawn so that he can battle against Erika, that would be a truly terrible mistake. I’m glad he wasn’t that stupid to do that, but taking Erika was still a boneheaded million dollar mistake, so yeah…
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Post by abbandkaa on Dec 16, 2021 12:05:49 GMT -6
junch817, the only person I thought he'd even consider giving his idol to was Ricard.
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Post by imapenguin on Dec 16, 2021 13:12:19 GMT -6
Once Danny said in his exit interviews last week that everyone viewed Xander as a goat and no one was worried about him getting votes at the end I let go of him winning so maybe that’s why I’m less surprised about the Erica win. And I do think Erica deserved the win. I’m a little surprised it was such a blow out, but not unhappy about it.
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Post by abbandkaa on Dec 16, 2021 13:42:30 GMT -6
imapenguin, that's kind of where I land now, my unhappiness and comments about Xander being robbed were more relating to him not getting a single jury vote.
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Post by GameNight on Dec 16, 2021 14:25:49 GMT -6
I hadn't heard his exit interview imapenguin but that explains things. I'm also in agreement that perhaps the editing threw me because while Erika played a good game, just based on what we saw I didn't think it was any better than Xander's and I certainly didn't realize the jury thought she was as great as they did. I am still a bit confused why there wasn't more of an effort to get Erika out post-merge if so many felt she was playing such a good game. I know she had the numbers in her favor, but I don't even recall it being suggested to her alliance by anyone other than Deshawn at the end. Overall, to me the season was fine. Not the worst, not great. Guess we'll see what 42 has in store!
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budders
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Post by budders on Dec 16, 2021 15:54:10 GMT -6
Once Danny said in his exit interviews last week that everyone viewed Xander as a goat and no one was worried about him getting votes at the end I let go of him winning so maybe that’s why I’m less surprised about the Erica win. And I do think Erica deserved the win. I’m a little surprised it was such a blow out, but not unhappy about it. I had listened to that too, which probably has informed my perspective on it all as well.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Dec 16, 2021 20:46:53 GMT -6
Xander was in a no-win situation. If he takes Erika, he’s seen as foolish. If he lets her go to fire with DeShawn and she wins, it’s another checkmark on her resume. And given how quickly she made fire while on Exile, I think she was faking later on at being terrible at it.
I’m okay with Erika winning, but don’t agree that she had a better game than Xander. She was on the winning tribe until the merge. That she was on the bottom isn’t noteworthy because she was never in danger until after the merge. That was HALF of the game right there.
Meanwhile, Xander was target #1 from Day 1 as Evvie wanted a female alliance. She threw him under the bus with the opposition by outing his having an idol to Danny. Because of needing to activate the idol, he lost his vote almost until the merge. And had to make it totally obvious to all that he had it by having to constantly repeat that stupid butterflies phrase. He watched as the other two men on his tribe were voted out as the women didn’t care if they kept losing so long as they got the men out.
He foiled Liana’s plan to flush his idol and saved Evvie, even though she and Tiffany had ZERO loyalty to him given the intel the former gave to Danny and the desire for the women’s alliance. It was his idea to make a fake idol but include the real parchment. Yes, he needed Evvie and Tiffany’s help to pull it off, but he’s ultimately the one that guessed right about giving it to Tiffany. After it came out about Evvie’s big mouth, why in the world should he have saved her a second time? He couldn’t save her or Tiffany without putting himself in serious jeopardy. That he managed to transform himself from the #1 target to under the radar was huge. He won individual immunity twice, including the critical one to get him to F3. I think a bitter Ricard helped sway the jury to vote Erika because he was pissed Xander didn’t fall for his sob story about having his 3rd child and save him (which I did not care for at all and I hated when Jeremy used this to win his Survivor season) since having a child has what, exactly, to do with the game?
So yeah. Good for Erika but Xander was robbed.
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budders
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Post by budders on Dec 16, 2021 21:13:47 GMT -6
I think another reason I just don't feel too strongly about any of the three winning/losing is because with editing, it's hard to really know what happened. We see what they chose to show. The story on the edited TV version of Big Brother is often drastically different and skewed compared to the full picture of the live feeds, so I always keep that in mind. We know this is true of Survivor too based on post-eviction interviews with the castaways, where they tell about confessionals being paired with events that had nothing to do with what they were talking about, or providing totally logical context to a decision that seemed out of left field.
The fact that Xander got zero votes and Erika got nearly all of them tells me that what we saw on TV was not necessarily the full picture of how well everyone played. I don't know why they approach the story that way, perhaps misdirection so it's not obvious, but a little more balance would go a long way in helping everyone feel satisfied with the finale.
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jinkies
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Post by jinkies on Dec 16, 2021 22:33:58 GMT -6
I want to talk more about the editing of this season. It was weird.
I think the show was edited in a way to make viewers leave with the impression that Xander was robbed. I just read everyone's exit interviews on EW, and no one sounds very impressed with him, even with 7 months of hindsight. Ricard is mostly diplomatic, but definitely didn't come across as warm toward Xander. Xander does not seem particularly well liked or respected (and the final vote confirmed that), which is in contrast to the way he was edited to look smart, strategic, athletic, clever.
I don't understand why Erica didn't get a more "heroic" edit, given that she was the first female winner in a long time (4 or 5 years I think?) I don't feel like the show was setting viewers up to want to root for her in the same way that they did for, say, Shan or even Tiffany.
I also read that Heather called the producers and asked them to be honest with her, and tell her if she had done something that caused them to basically edit her out of the season. (She reports that they said it was just bc she didn't happen to be part of the story arcs they wanted to use)
Its so weird to me that 2 of the final 4 seemed to be under edited.
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Post by imapenguin on Dec 17, 2021 7:24:36 GMT -6
Dang, that really sucks for Heather.
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Fearsy
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Post by Fearsy on Dec 17, 2021 8:29:51 GMT -6
I really hate that for Heather. I thought it was because she wasn’t really doing much and that she’d be voted out soon but then when she got to the final 3 and still didn’t get much air time, I found it so odd. I even commented to MH about how Heather was crying either before or after one of those last challenges and they didn’t show Jeff asking her what the emotions were about. Jeff always asks that. I bet there was a conversation and they edited it out. Just weird.
I really hope the producers and anyone who makes decisions listens to viewers when we say the editing overall was shit. I mean even at the final tribal, Naseer made comments that seemed to further help Xander’s case to win. The jury’s favorable response to almost everything Xander said, and even Erika didn’t seem to have much “this is why I deserve to win” conversation. Maybe I need to go back and watch again knowing who won.
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Post by spicysalmonroll on Dec 23, 2021 7:21:50 GMT -6
I haven't felt this robbed since the season with Devens. I def thought Xander was better than Erika.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Dec 23, 2021 7:43:39 GMT -6
I haven't felt this robbed since the season with Devens. I def thought Xander was better than Erika. Yes. All the editing in the world doesn’t change the fact that Xander had to work alone for pretty much the entire game as the biggest target for more than half of it until he helped to transfer that to Ricard, whom he ultimately had all the cards in terms of ousting him. Contrast that with Erika, who was on a winning tribe until merge (half the game) and then gets the lucky break of getting picked to go to exile after the merge and getting another lucky break in the hourglass smash advantage at exile. Because those were advantages handed to her and had zero to do with her gameplay. Xander had an idol that was more of a disadvantage given he had to lose his vote for most of the first half of the game and lost the factor of secrecy, which is so critical to the success of having an idol, because of having to say that stupid phrase each time, instead of one and done, to activate it. I think Erika did a good job at FTC but not discernibly better than Xander. The jury had 5 women on it, many of whom had wanted a female alliance and female winner from the beginning, so it’s really not a shock that they voted accordingly. Ricard was obviously pissy about not winning and gave all the blame to Xander, instead of recognizing he did what he had to do to win as no one would have beaten Ricard in the end. Xander said as much during FTC. And it was also telling how Ricard touted Erika to the jury, who looked at him blankly, saying, “I wish you could have seen her play.” Like shouldn’t they have seen that for themselves? Finally, the jury saying they didn’t see Xander as a threat is a testament to his game. If you are able to turn things around where you are no longer the main target week after week for more than half the game as it was through 3 votes post-merge that he was still in danger (which was almost 75% of the game) to helping to deflect and take out others, how they could see that as a weakness is beyond me. As I said upthread, I’m okay with Erika winning as she had some moves, but she wasn’t more deserving than Xander.
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Post by imapenguin on Dec 23, 2021 11:53:06 GMT -6
I haven't felt this robbed since the season with Devens. I def thought Xander was better than Erika. Yes. All the editing in the world doesn’t change the fact that Xander had to work alone for pretty much the entire game as the biggest target for more than half of it I didn’t read past here, but just wanted to say that per Danny, the other contestants didn’t see Xander as a target for most of the game. They didn’t respect his game play and saw him as a goat. It was the edit that portrayed him as the target.
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Post by imapenguin on Dec 23, 2021 11:59:48 GMT -6
For those that missed it, this is what Danny said about Xander—
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junch817
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Post by junch817 on Dec 23, 2021 14:21:20 GMT -6
Xander being viewed as a goat (and not THE goat) by anyone in the jury blows my mind. Editing is editing, but he has a resume that can’t be edited away, so yeah…. not a goat.
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Post by icedcoffee on Dec 23, 2021 20:06:27 GMT -6
I'm so so late watching the finale and I obviously know who won. But Erika got the advantage in the immunity challenge? 🙄🙄 she was last to figure out the puzzle and just wandered around and happened to stumble on it?
So she got two huge advantages. Am I the only one? That seemed so unlikely for her to get
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Post by icedcoffee on Dec 23, 2021 21:08:09 GMT -6
That fire omg
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Post by icedcoffee on Dec 23, 2021 21:39:13 GMT -6
I thought I'd have more clarity finally watching but I really don't. I don't really understand a lot of it even watching through the lense of knowing who won and who made final 3
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Dec 23, 2021 23:37:29 GMT -6
I'm so so late watching the finale and I obviously know who won. But Erika got the advantage in the immunity challenge? 🙄🙄 she was last to figure out the puzzle and just wandered around and happened to stumble on it? So she got two huge advantages. Am I the only one? That seemed so unlikely for her to get It does seem incredibly lucky that she found that advantage after others had been looking for it for several minutes ahead of her. And the advantage was too much - for anyone who got it - having both ladders halfway done.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Dec 23, 2021 23:45:22 GMT -6
For those that missed it, this is what Danny said about Xander— None of this gives me any more insight into the jury’s voting except that they came off as bitter betties. Ricard most of all. And it’s contrary to the huge grins all around as they said his name in unison when he walked into the next to last TC with the immunity necklace around his neck. Him being viewed as the same as Heather is bonkers. Many folks besides me are baffled by Xander getting zero votes and honestly, if this is how Survivor is going to go from now on, I might be tuning out after watching since the very first season.
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Post by lucilleaustero on Dec 24, 2021 7:40:50 GMT -6
I am glad Xander did not win. His one big move was actually planned by Tiffany. I think the nail in his coffin, though, was his absolute i ability to read the jury correctly. In a season where emotional intelligence was in the forefront, a young man that repeatedly reas the jury wrong was never going to win. Also, not being able to articulate what his game play was about. If he had any chance, which I do not believe he did, his poor tribal performance lost him any votes.
From all the exit interviews, Erika was a highly strategic player and made a lot of moves. I think the problem is in the editing. They didnt show us this great game that the jury members all say she played. But, I will believe them cause I wasn't there.
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Post by icedcoffee on Dec 24, 2021 7:48:05 GMT -6
I'm so so late watching the finale and I obviously know who won. But Erika got the advantage in the immunity challenge? 🙄🙄 she was last to figure out the puzzle and just wandered around and happened to stumble on it? So she got two huge advantages. Am I the only one? That seemed so unlikely for her to get It does seem incredibly lucky that she found that advantage after others had been looking for it for several minutes ahead of her. And the advantage was too much - for anyone who got it - having both ladders halfway done. It really was basically handing the win to her. Between that and the weirdness with Heather's fire. And Erika apparantly being this amazing player that we didn't see, I'm so confused by the editing and the direction this season took.
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junch817
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Post by junch817 on Dec 24, 2021 10:09:45 GMT -6
I think the jury had it decided early on, for some crazy reason, that Xavier “wasn’t genuine” and was going to be carried based on that (cough - bullshit - cough), therefore he was never going to get votes. DeShawn pissed off so many people that he wasn’t going to get votes. Therefore, player number 3, Erika, wins the game.
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Post by icedcoffee on Dec 24, 2021 10:13:14 GMT -6
Who was the lone DeShawn voter? Did they ever show it
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budders
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Post by budders on Dec 25, 2021 14:58:28 GMT -6
I think the jury had it decided early on, for some crazy reason, that Xavier “wasn’t genuine” and was going to be carried based on that (cough - bullshit - cough), therefore he was never going to get votes. DeShawn pissed off so many people that he wasn’t going to get votes. Therefore, player number 3, Erika, wins the game. I listen to a lot of the RHAP podcasts, and several of them addressed this. Xander admitted that he went in playing the aloof surfer guy and did not go in as himself, so he truly wasn't being "genuine". It's not even like he lied about a job or an aspect of his life, he took on a completely different personality, and the others could tell something was off. A lot of the things he did in the game, like giving up rewards, were viewed as disingenuous because of this and people just didn't respect or take him seriously. Generally speaking (not just in response to your comment), they also covered the severe underrepresentation of women and especially non-white people who win within the season edits. Even huge names like Sandra and Parvati had smaller percentages of screen time than many of their male counterparts who won. I don't know why the season was edited this way, but I think that's important to remember as well. CBS definitely needs to do better there. Also generally speaking, yes, the game is about strategy and play, but it's also about jury management. As they said in Heroes vs. Villains to Russell Hantz at the finale, the game is not about America voting the best player. It's about convincing your fellow survivors on the jury that you are the most deserving winner of the finalists. Maybe Xander did truly play a better game, but he didn't do a better of job of convincing the jury that he did, which is the final hurdle of the game. I just really feel bad for Erika, who was an almost unanimous winner, that she will have to defend herself forevermore.
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jenna
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Post by jenna on Dec 25, 2021 23:44:40 GMT -6
Team Erika. I thought she played an excellent game and I wish her and Heather got the edit they deserved. I agree that it seemed clear at some point the players didn’t take Xander that seriously as a threat, no one was trying to get rid of him and his idol
I’m sure Survivor will bring him back though, they love that type
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Fearsy
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Post by Fearsy on Jan 4, 2022 8:30:24 GMT -6
I'm so so late watching the finale and I obviously know who won. But Erika got the advantage in the immunity challenge? 🙄🙄 she was last to figure out the puzzle and just wandered around and happened to stumble on it? So she got two huge advantages. Am I the only one? That seemed so unlikely for her to get It does seem incredibly lucky that she found that advantage after others had been looking for it for several minutes ahead of her. And the advantage was too much - for anyone who got it - having both ladders halfway done. I have thought for years that the production staff/camera people/whoever plant those advantages in the moment or when convenient for them to change the game play and make it more interesting. I don’t actually believe that 100% of it is random and by chance. My husband doesn’t believe me though.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jan 4, 2022 11:01:24 GMT -6
It does seem incredibly lucky that she found that advantage after others had been looking for it for several minutes ahead of her. And the advantage was too much - for anyone who got it - having both ladders halfway done. I have thought for years that the production staff/camera people/whoever plant those advantages in the moment or when convenient for them to change the game play and make it more interesting. I don’t actually believe that 100% of it is random and by chance. My husband doesn’t believe me though. I can absolutely believe it. I think they like to create the narrative far more than they'd ever admit. Ben the Marine finding idol after idol and them introducing the fire-making challenge to determine the other member of the F3 in his season is total production influence.
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