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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2022 13:22:29 GMT -6
Also somewhat relevant to this thread that I didn't realize until the last year or so.. I ended up in the same dorm (Santa Lucia) that RF was in. I started in 2000 and they still had posters of her up on every exit reminding people to never go out alone and not to let your friends leave with someone they didn't come with.
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cnf
Ruby
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Post by cnf on Jul 21, 2022 14:36:53 GMT -6
cnf, you likely won't get sequestered for grand jury, sadly. I was kind of hoping for it myself. Based on our jury selections... If you have a full time job and 3 tiny humans, they likely won't care. I assume your children have some kind of childcare besides you during the day when you work, so that would knock them out of the equation. (I tried that. They did let the SAHM off, since she *was* the childcare for her young children). And they don't care about your work getting interrupted, unless you were to say that your work would interrupt court proceedings. (I got zero slack for that, but the person who said something along the lines of "I'm the only person who can handle XYZ medical emergency, so if I get called, I have to answer" was let go.) Other things that would typically get you off jury duty won't necessarily get you off grand jury.. for example, we had an attorney and the husband to one of the DA's on our grand jury, which are typically items that would get you kicked out of the jury duty pretty quickly. SAHM, teacher, planned trip to propose to girlfriend, a compromised immune system (we were in fall 2020, so covid concerns were taken pretty seriously), unemployeed but searching for job, and the like were all dismissed without much fanfare. Despite being a PITA, it was actually a really interesting. Two of the cases that we sat for made the news and one made national news. The annoying part is that if you show up and they dismiss you, your one day counts as service and your name's not in the jury pool for 18 months. If you get seated on the jury and serve for 2+ months.. it's also only our of the pool for 18 months. This was my 3rd time being called and having to show up, second time being seated. If/when they call me again and ask if there are any reasons I can't serve, I'll let them know that it's highly likely that many people they called have NEVER served jury duty, and with almost 3.5 combined months spent on jury duty under my belt, I feel like I've more than fulfilled my civic duty and someone else can have a turn. So they let the teacher off... I'm a teacher... Goodness sitting through multiple trials for multiple months sounds miserable.
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Jul 23, 2022 20:51:26 GMT -6
Also somewhat relevant to this thread that I didn't realize until the last year or so.. I ended up in the same dorm (Santa Lucia) that RF was in. I started in 2000 and they still had posters of her up on every exit reminding people to never go out alone and not to let your friends leave with someone they didn't come with. Wow. That’s interesting. I think about her friend that left her at that party since Kristin wouldn’t leave. It must be so hard. The cross examinations this week were all over the place. I also don’t think attacking the Smart family is a smart strategy and it’s not working with the jury.
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Post by donnamartingraduates on Aug 27, 2022 14:56:41 GMT -6
So even his own lawyer has indicated Paul Flores could lead law enforcement to her body. I hope he gets life with no parole.
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Oct 5, 2022 15:14:03 GMT -6
The jury is now in deliberations. I’m praying for a guilty verdict and for comfort for Kristin’s family.
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Yogurt
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Post by Yogurt on Oct 5, 2022 18:46:08 GMT -6
People are putting up purple ribbons all over the village of Arroyo Grande
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McBenny
Unicorn
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Post by McBenny on Oct 5, 2022 18:47:54 GMT -6
I'm finding their evidence on the dad really lacking. 🤷🏻♀️
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Sundae
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Post by Sundae on Oct 5, 2022 19:07:07 GMT -6
I'm finding their evidence on the dad really lacking. 🤷🏻♀️ Yup. I think they’ll get Paul. Can’t convict Ruben just for being an asshole. Pauls attorney is a clown.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 6, 2022 7:45:05 GMT -6
I'm finding their evidence on the dad really lacking. 🤷🏻♀️ Yup. I think they’ll get Paul. Can’t convict Ruben just for being an asshole. Pauls attorney is a clown. I am really puzzled how they got an indictment. Some of the things I found odd that they zoomed in on was Paul calling his father after he was questioned by police. They argue Paul called him to give him the heads up. Saying why else would he call his father. Like hello, anyone else being questioned by the police guilty or not might call their parent to tell them what just happened.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 6, 2022 7:46:19 GMT -6
I find the case against Paul very weak. If they get a conviction it may be cause Paul's lawyer just sucks that badly.
Also based on this evidence, if I was convicted, I would never give them the location of the body if I did it.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 6, 2022 7:48:02 GMT -6
So even his own lawyer has indicated Paul Flores could lead law enforcement to her body. I hope he gets life with no parole. I do not believe this to be something his current lawyer was involved in. Again this was several years ago. I mean it's no different that everyone in the room knowing Amber cut off JD's finger but in front of the jury they played the game and even called expert witnesses about it.
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Post by donnamartingraduates on Oct 6, 2022 8:37:15 GMT -6
So even his own lawyer has indicated Paul Flores could lead law enforcement to her body. I hope he gets life with no parole. I do not believe this to be something his current lawyer was involved in. Again this was several years ago. I mean it's no different that everyone in the room knowing Amber cut off JD's finger but in front of the jury they played the game and even called expert witnesses about it. You are correct. This whole case has been dragged out 26 years for many reasons, all of which bring more pain to the Smart family. I agree with your analogy. I think the majority agree he did it, but I'm not sure the case has been proven enough to convict. I do think the prosecutor did his best. Paul's current lawyer is the absolute worst. Just a complete bone head and seems incompetent. I hope if there is a guilty verdict it isn't overturned for the lawyer Sanger's poor job.
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Oct 6, 2022 20:55:27 GMT -6
I think it’s the totality of evidence. Just one thing on its own might not be a big deal, but altogether, there is no other reasonable explanation.
He was the last one with her. She went from sober to not being able to walk in 90 minutes. He lied about talking to her at the party. He lied about his black eye. He has a history of sexual assault. The women who testified said he used a red and black ball gag when he assaulted them. They found images of a red and black ball gag in his room. He had all kinds of Kristin Smart paraphernalia in his room (as did his dad) He called her a dick tease and said he buried her. Three separate cadaver dogs alerted on his dorm room. Different dogs alerted on the spot under the deck. There was soil staining that indicates a human burial site. There was blood found in that soil. There were fibers that match her clothes in that soil.
I also think that if you believe he killed her, then it’s likely that his dad helped him since she was under HIS deck.
The stuff on his computer that they couldn’t use is sickening.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 6, 2022 21:17:16 GMT -6
I think it’s the totality of evidence. Just one thing on its own might not be a big deal, but altogether, there is no other reasonable explanation. He was the last one with her. She went from sober to not being able to walk in 90 minutes. He lied about talking to her at the party. He lied about his black eye. He has a history of sexual assault. The women who testified said he used a red and black ball gag when he assaulted them. They found images of a red and black ball gag in his room. He had all kinds of Kristin Smart paraphernalia in his room (as did his dad) He called her a dick tease and said he buried her. Three separate cadaver dogs alerted on his dorm room. Different dogs alerted on the spot under the deck. There was soil staining that indicates a human burial site. There was blood found in that soil. There were fibers that match her clothes in that soil. I also think that if you believe he killed her, then it’s likely that his dad helped him since she was under HIS deck. The stuff on his computer that they couldn’t use is sickening. But based on facts they have not proven she was under his deck, they have not proven what exactly was there, they can assume it was the dad but facts they showed nothing to tie him, it could have been anyone or no one. you assuming, unless I missed it I haven't seen the thing that ties Ruben to it. Saying cause his son called him, not enough cause it was his yard, not enough All these serial killers with bodies in yards and those family members were not charged so I was waiting for the smoking gun on Ruben and I still don't see it. My comments were about Ruben anyway and not Paul. They should have charged him with her kidnapping imo.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 6, 2022 21:19:59 GMT -6
The blood on the soil was too broken down to say it was human or animal and could not be tied to Kristen.
A good lawyer would tear that shit up.
If they get Ruben it's cause his lawyer sucks ass and not on a smoking gun.
Also having newspaper clippings to a major story on your are is not paraphernalia. I mean I have newspaper clippings on old. Murders now and a file on many crimes I have researched so maybe it's a me issue. 🤷🏻♀️ 😂
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Oct 6, 2022 21:52:40 GMT -6
The expert believes it to be human blood. I know there’s a small chance it belonged to a ferret. The dogs also altered on that spot and they don’t alert on animals. I admit I am in deep in Reddit.
I do think Ruben is the weaker of the two cases, but I hope they both rot in jail.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 6, 2022 23:24:02 GMT -6
The expert believes it to be human blood. I know there’s a small chance it belonged to a ferret. The dogs also altered on that spot and they don’t alert on animals. I admit I am in deep in Reddit. I do think Ruben is the weaker of the two cases, but I hope they both rot in jail. but science says blood would not last that long outside on grass in dirt. It would decomp or be consumed. They also did not test othet parts of the yard for comparison. Like ph levels and such. Again I'm not saying she wasn't there. I'm saying you have to prove it and you can't. I will re read but I haven't read that they can definitely say a body was there and what kind of body.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 6, 2022 23:28:24 GMT -6
I would have discussed the ground anamoly more than blood. You can say it's human blood all day but you can't say what human. You can't say when. You also didn't test others parts of the yard as a control.
That's weak science but he HS weak attorneys. 🤷🏻♀️
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Oct 7, 2022 5:45:23 GMT -6
I think they did test other parts of the yard. There were 13 positives for blood but there were others from other parts of the yard were negative. They also testified that the blood lasts longer when it’s in a shaded, covered area and that they’ve found blood much older than hers would be. The expert also said that the test accounts for ph and it’s not standard practice to mess with it.
I’m just glad to have someone to talk to about it. I’ve been following it so closely. What do you think the deal is with both of the defense attorneys? Is it genuinely that they are terrible or it is a strategy? I guess I didn’t realize attorneys could intentionally misstate testimony to confuse jurors and then tell them it was their job to figure out what was real.
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Post by donnamartingraduates on Oct 7, 2022 6:04:09 GMT -6
Yes, those closing arguments were maddening. It's like they are Paul and Ruben as I imagine them to be in lawyer form. Paul's lawyer tries so hard to relate to the jury and makes all those jokes and it sounds like it had the opposite effect with them based on Chris Lambert's reports of eye rolling, side eying, and no laughing.
I do think they made it clear the size of the whole dug up was sized for a human and that it was hand dug, not mechanically dug up. I thought it was great they had the home builder there to shoot down any chances they contributed to those sites or blood. Also that they shot down any chances the staining was a plumbing issue, plus also Ruben would not allow a plumber down there.
I think they are both guilty as hell, but I'm on the fence if I could say beyond reasonable doubt based on evidence. I haven't thought as hard about it as the jury. I hope they can convict.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 7, 2022 7:46:27 GMT -6
Yes, those closing arguments were maddening. It's like they are Paul and Ruben as I imagine them to be in lawyer form. Paul's lawyer tries so hard to relate to the jury and makes all those jokes and it sounds like it had the opposite effect with them based on Chris Lambert's reports of eye rolling, side eying, and no laughing. I do think they made it clear the size of the whole dug up was sized for a human and that it was hand dug, not mechanically dug up. I thought it was great they had the home builder there to shoot down any chances they contributed to those sites or blood. Also that they shot down any chances the staining was a plumbing issue, plus also Ruben would not allow a plumber down there. I think they are both guilty as hell, but I'm on the fence if I could say beyond reasonable doubt based on evidence. I haven't thought as hard about it as the jury. I hope they can convict. I definitely would Hve focused on the size of the anamoly and not the blood.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 7, 2022 7:48:55 GMT -6
I think they did test other parts of the yard. There were 13 positives for blood but there were others from other parts of the yard were negative. They also testified that the blood lasts longer when it’s in a shaded, covered area and that they’ve found blood much older than hers would be. The expert also said that the test accounts for ph and it’s not standard practice to mess with it. I’m just glad to have someone to talk to about it. I’ve been following it so closely. What do you think the deal is with both of the defense attorneys? Is it genuinely that they are terrible or it is a strategy? I guess I didn’t realize attorneys could intentionally misstate testimony to confuse jurors and then tell them it was their job to figure out what was real. The blood person on the stand that I read said they did not test other parts of the yard so I don't know what I'm reading then. 🤷🏻♀️ Also everything else I read said there would be no reason for blood to last that long but again I don't know whst I'm reading vs what you're saying.
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Oct 7, 2022 8:03:22 GMT -6
Let me see if I can find it. I’ll be back. (I’m so excited to have something to distract me from waiting on the verdict)
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Oct 7, 2022 8:04:04 GMT -6
Yes, those closing arguments were maddening. It's like they are Paul and Ruben as I imagine them to be in lawyer form. Paul's lawyer tries so hard to relate to the jury and makes all those jokes and it sounds like it had the opposite effect with them based on Chris Lambert's reports of eye rolling, side eying, and no laughing. I do think they made it clear the size of the whole dug up was sized for a human and that it was hand dug, not mechanically dug up. I thought it was great they had the home builder there to shoot down any chances they contributed to those sites or blood. Also that they shot down any chances the staining was a plumbing issue, plus also Ruben would not allow a plumber down there. I think they are both guilty as hell, but I'm on the fence if I could say beyond reasonable doubt based on evidence. I haven't thought as hard about it as the jury. I hope they can convict. The whole thing has been like that. It’s bonkers.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 7, 2022 8:15:36 GMT -6
Let me see if I can find it. I’ll be back. (I’m so excited to have something to distract me from waiting on the verdict) You don't have to. I am done with it. Everything I read you are saying the complete opposite. My information did not just come from this trial. I just find it very odd.
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McBenny
Unicorn
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Post by McBenny on Oct 7, 2022 8:25:31 GMT -6
The stupidest thing I have ever heard:
The prosecutor said the only logical reason for Paul Flores to call his father immediately after being interviewed by Kennedy is to warn him that investigators were onto them, “which tells you Ruben Flores would do anything to help his son, and tells you, the jury, that Ruben Flores has been helping him for 26 years.”
If the police interview me for anything, despite me knowing I didn't do anything, I am immediately calling my husband or my parent. For me, this doesn't indicate shit.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 7, 2022 8:26:06 GMT -6
If you killed someone why would you call 911? 2nd dumbest thing I ever heard
Peuvrelle also noted Paul Flores did not call 911, because, “the help he needed was not from when 911 would arrive — the help he needed was to get away with murder, which is why he called Ruben Flores.”
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Oct 7, 2022 8:26:43 GMT -6
From the SLO Tribune’s notes on closing arguments:
Only one spot in that entire backyard happened to have a surface disturbance showing it has been dug down into. Happened to be the perfect size for a human burial site.
That anomaly “just happened to be 6 feet tall-Kristin’s height-just happened to be 4 feet wide-consistent with a clandestine grave
The anomaly also had staining consistent with a decomposing human body and soil samples taken from that staining tested positive for human blood.
Cindy Arrington told you THIS hole was dug by hand, because there were no mechanical marks.
The samples that tested positive also had fibers that matched what Smart was wearing the night she disappeared-a gray top, black shorts, and red shoes.
On rebuttal, the blood expert Butler testified that hemoglobin can be preserved for decades, depending on how it is stored.
The Serological Research Institute has conducted its own experiments testing blood stored on cloths dating back rot eh 1970s, 80s, and 90s. The blood still yielded positive results decades later.
She said they do not routinely test for pH. It isn’t necessary.
The two defense witnesses that argued against the blood evidence have never used the HemDirect test
The samples came from two different excavations. Both had samples that tested positive
Blood buried 4 feet down and covered by a deck does not degrade as fast.
The defense witness admitted that the expert she contacted told her blood samples could test positive for more than 20 years if they were in a dry desert or a shady place.
Peurvrelle said they surveyed the whole property and only one anomaly showed under the deck. That anomaly had samples test positive for human blood. They took control samples from other parts of the property and all control samples tested negative.
There are probably some comments mixed in from Lambert’s notes too. They are mixed together sometimes. The last few comments came from testimony and not closing arguments.
So, I don’t know. I hope they are both found guilty. I think the case against Paul is stronger, but also, if you believe he killed her, then I don’t know how you don’t find Ruben guilty too. What else did he do with her if not put her under the deck?
I do think the phone call stuff was weak. I wonder why they didn’t mention that the Flores family kept taking down her missing posters.
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Oct 7, 2022 8:27:34 GMT -6
Let me see if I can find it. I’ll be back. (I’m so excited to have something to distract me from waiting on the verdict) You don't have to. I am done with it. Everything I read you are saying the complete opposite. My information did not just come from this trial. I just find it very odd. Lol. I just saw this. Okay.
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Post by RunsforWineandCarbs on Oct 17, 2022 14:27:54 GMT -6
A verdict has been reached for Reubens jury.
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