The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[greykitty]

Oh, I'm sure Sam is sincere about the pardon offer - I just wondered why he was so sure he could offer it? I don't think he was playing Sharon at all. Now if he were Captain America....LOL A little more leverage?

Then again, I'm reasonably sure today that Sharon is playing a long game here and is skilled at keeping her cards close to her vest. Just like Aunt Peggy. I will be sad if she turns out to be a Big Bad of some sort. Oh, and now I'm waiting for Maria Hill to be her contact. Then again I was really hoping to see Reed Richards be Monica's mysterious engineer friend. Oh, well.

Sam was a lot of fun in this episode - and his sincerity rings so true. I will admit I was kind of thrilled to see the Winter Soldier back in action. Zemo wasn't wrong in his assessment of a return to form.

[pianolove]

I really liked this one.

My first thought was Sharon is also after Power Broker but she's with some other agency coming at it via undercover style, which she has experience with. I kinda think Sharon has already been pardoned but she needed an angle to keep her cover. I fully own that I will not accept Sharon Carter as a bad guy and if she does turn out to be a villain I am going straight to AO3 for fix-it fics.

John Walker continues to be a dick and a half and I hate him.

I have complicated feelings about Karli. I'd still like to know what happened and what the goal is exactly, I know the official mission is a unified world without borders but they keep talking about children in camps somewhere in Latvia, assuming one of them is where Karli lived. Getting some untrustworthy vibes from the GRC commercial. Idk I need to sit with it for a while.

When Bucky wanted to walk through the hypothetical, and Sam immediately knew he'd done something. Dammit Bucky. Also laughed at Sam "that's how it is in all the action movies!" as if Bucky spent all his time in Wakanda watching action movies lolol. I liked how he picked up on Ayo at the end there. She absolutely wanted him to find those.

[athn64]

Apr 2, 2021 14:26:10 GMT -6 pianolove said:

I really liked this one.

My first thought was Sharon is also after Power Broker but she's with some other agency coming at it via undercover style, which she has experience with. I kinda think Sharon has already been pardoned but she needed an angle to keep her cover. I fully own that I will not accept Sharon Carter as a bad guy and if she does turn out to be a villain I am going straight to AO3 for fix-it fics.

John Walker continues to be a dick and a half and I hate him.

I have complicated feelings about Karli. I'd still like to know what happened and what the goal is exactly, I know the official mission is a unified world without borders but they keep talking about children in camps somewhere in Latvia, assuming one of them is where Karli lived. Getting some untrustworthy vibes from the GRC commercial. Idk I need to sit with it for a while.

When Bucky wanted to walk through the hypothetical, and Sam immediately knew he'd done something. Dammit Bucky. Also laughed at Sam "that's how it is in all the action movies!" as if Bucky spent all his time in Wakanda watching action movies lolol. I liked how he picked up on Ayo at the end there. She absolutely wanted him to find those.

She definitely did. The Dora Milaje are not that obvious

[pianolove]

Oh I forgot, I did like the notebook part. My own headcanon is Steve gave it to Bucky in an attempt to help him adjust before he left, and that's when Bucky knew he was going to stay in the past.

[pianolove]

Apr 2, 2021 14:30:08 GMT -6 athn64 said:

Apr 2, 2021 14:26:10 GMT -6 pianolove said:

I really liked this one.

My first thought was Sharon is also after Power Broker but she's with some other agency coming at it via undercover style, which she has experience with. I kinda think Sharon has already been pardoned but she needed an angle to keep her cover. I fully own that I will not accept Sharon Carter as a bad guy and if she does turn out to be a villain I am going straight to AO3 for fix-it fics.

John Walker continues to be a dick and a half and I hate him.

I have complicated feelings about Karli. I'd still like to know what happened and what the goal is exactly, I know the official mission is a unified world without borders but they keep talking about children in camps somewhere in Latvia, assuming one of them is where Karli lived. Getting some untrustworthy vibes from the GRC commercial. Idk I need to sit with it for a while.

When Bucky wanted to walk through the hypothetical, and Sam immediately knew he'd done something. Dammit Bucky. Also laughed at Sam "that's how it is in all the action movies!" as if Bucky spent all his time in Wakanda watching action movies lolol. I liked how he picked up on Ayo at the end there. She absolutely wanted him to find those.

She definitely did. The Dora Milaje are not that obvious

During the whole episode I was pretty sure Zemo was going to ditch them at the end of the series and get away but now not so much lol

[Lakes]

The GRC commercial made me go “Whelp. Well they’re evil.”
I’m digging Zemo’s coat. +1 on not being surprised he killed the scientist.
Walker. I can’t even. What an ass.

My friend said the Princess Bar sign was a Wolverine thing. I’m not that deep into X-Men. I appreciate all the Easter eggs in the MCU even if I don’t know what half of them are.

I really liked this episode and didn’t want it to end. I like their weird little trio and didn’t totally hate Zemo.

[Lakes]

I keep thinking about how Bucky must feel having to pretend to be the Winter Soldier after trying to distance himself from that. Yet another round of amazing facial expressions.

[athn64]

Apr 2, 2021 19:14:43 GMT -6 @icedtea said:

+1 to all of the above.

I am also wondering if Sharon is the Power Broker, but I don't buy they'd make her a villain. I also don't understand why she wouldn't be pardoned.

This is why I'm going with a "she's under cover" thing. She didn't want to break her cover for those idiots, so she didn't.

But I could be very very wrong.

[Lakes]

[greykitty]

So I read one article that said Wakanda might actually be interested in whatever serum is left as well once they know about it. I think this assumes that there definitely is no supply of the heart shaped herb in existence. My first reaction is that substituting a version of the serum wouldn't be super acceptable in the Wakandan philosophy, no matter how essential the role of the enhanced Black Panther is.

One really odd tangent to was that do we know for sure that Killmonger is dead, dead, deader than Uncle Ben? Everything from the ocean burial leading to Namor, to maybe using that cryo unit they had handy to maintain the body. I don't see this angle myself. But I've been surprised before.

I thought it was more likely that someone realizes that Shuri (and who knows who else) potentially had access to blood samples from a super soldier for quite a while, which might have survived through the Blip. I cannot see Shuri being that unethical, but as a story line in Phase 4?

I will still be very sad if it turns out Sharon's goal is anything other than to safeguard/destroy any serum research or samples. Not create and use it for 'bad' purposes. I keep seeing Peggy pouring that last vial of Steve's blood into the ocean.

And now I'm wondering what/if Bruce Banner knew of Isaiah Bradley in the MCU.

And I will do anything to avoid doing housecleaning, including random thoughts about tv shows.

[RajahMD]

Ok, I kinda love the addition of Zemo to the trio of buddy cops. It's just too funny. Him and his ridiculous coat. His butler was adorable, so excited to have Zemo back.

Fuck Walker, and not in the good way. Each episode makes me hate him more and more.

I too am wondering if Sharon is the Power Breaker. I spent most of the episode oscillating between "damn, she's a badass, go her" and "Aunt Peggy would be so disappointed right now".

[willow]

I quite enjoyed this episode. I would also be disappointed if Sharon turns out to be a villain, I hope they don’t go that way.

I am very interested to see how Wakanda gets roped into this now. I have been wondering about the fact that Tchalla took the last flower and how they were going to address that going forward. The serum would be a logical replacement for that if they wanted it.

I’m enjoying Zemo being back much more than I ever enjoyed him originally haha.

[willow]

Also I was talking to my H about how it was convenient for the producers to have the 5 year skip ahead since they don’t really have to address the issue of COVID - I mean I know it’s a completely different “universe” so to speak but they do still address some of earths problems like racism etc so it wouldn’t be totally out of line that they would have addressed it. But maybe with the blip it would have helped reduce the spread or not happened at all! Ha just random thoughts in my head.

[greykitty]

willow, I vaguely remember reading a story a year ago March when COVID was impacting so many film productions, including Falcon & Winter Soldier, that there had been a talk in the writers room about the pandemic and the Blip. I wish I could find that story again, but this article seemed interesting as well to me, as well as parallels between Sam confronting the shield and so much that has happened this year. Sometimes its so eerie how things not foreseen while writing and filming something show up in real life a year or two later. Back in March 2020, New Amsterdam pulled an episode based on a deadly flu epidemic.

link

Anyway, back to FAWS:

What's also become more apparent in the making of the series is the potent parallel between the reality of the COVID-19 pandemic and the MCU’s "Blip", which saw half the universe's population wiped out, only to return five years later. Spellman says that the fact that humanity is living through an extended state of stasis has made The Falcon And The Winter Soldier's narrative more pointed.

"There's no hiding from the fact that four billion people in the MCU disappeared for five years, and then came back. And our show picks up from there and directly talks about what the world feels like to be in flux and dealing with one global issue," he shares. "When the pandemic hits, and the entire planet has to come together and deal with it, the synergy there is perfect.

link

[athn64]

Apr 3, 2021 13:51:56 GMT -6 willow said:

I quite enjoyed this episode. I would also be disappointed if Sharon turns out to be a villain, I hope they don’t go that way.

I am very interested to see how Wakanda gets roped into this now. I have been wondering about the fact that Tchalla took the last flower and how they were going to address that going forward. The serum would be a logical replacement for that if they wanted it.

I’m enjoying Zemo being back much more than I ever enjoyed him originally haha.

Am I alone in thinking the roots are still there? Like when forest fires and all happen, the plant life comes back. I assume the plants can regrow.

[greykitty]

Apr 3, 2021 18:48:32 GMT -6 athn64 said:

Apr 3, 2021 13:51:56 GMT -6 willow said:

I quite enjoyed this episode. I would also be disappointed if Sharon turns out to be a villain, I hope they don’t go that way.

I am very interested to see how Wakanda gets roped into this now. I have been wondering about the fact that Tchalla took the last flower and how they were going to address that going forward. The serum would be a logical replacement for that if they wanted it.

I’m enjoying Zemo being back much more than I ever enjoyed him originally haha.

Am I alone in thinking the roots are still there? Like when forest fires and all happen, the plant life comes back. I assume the plants can regrow.

I have not read the Wakanda Files... but this article talks about whether any plants survived Killmonger's ordered destruction of the stock.  Right now we're doing all sorts of controlled burns in our forest preserves, and it's amazing to me how quickly the vegetation comes back, but did Killmonger salt the earth or anything like that?  He's an experienced enough military person to go to extreme lengths to ensure his position, I think. 

The article also mentions that maybe the plant is growing elsewhere in some hidden area of Wakanda, but I wonder if post-Blip Wakanda has had a lot of time to look for it?  The super soldier serum could be a short cut?  And I could see Bucky (or Steve) being a little more trusting of, and grateful to, T'Challa or his trusted representatives with vials of their blood than anyone in the US or other nations.

 Of course, the Wakandans might have lied to Killmonger, but I didn't have that sense when watching the movie.

"According to Syfy Wire, Shuri writes in The Wakanda Files that she wants to synthesize the Heart-Shaped Herb, since it's been completely wiped out. She is even open to the idea of adding vibranium to the synthetic plant, but for now, her efforts seem to be at a standstill until she can study a sample of the real plant. Of course, thanks to Killmonger, getting her hands on a Heart-Shaped Herb will be rather difficult now, because it's unclear if any of these incredible plants existed outside of the Hall of Kings, where Killmonger burned them. In the scene, Killmonger is depicted as asking, "This is all of it?" and getting confirmation. "


link

[richard]

I'm probably the only one who didn't know this, but I was very "oh, Zemo is private plane rich." I also enjoyed his little dance.

This may be a stupid question. Why did Isaiah age but Steve and Bucky didn't? Was there someone else changing the serum between those times?

I also hope Sharon is not the Power Broker. But if they go that route, I'd rather have her be the Power Broker than be a lady somehow forced to work for the Power Broker for whatever reason. I feel like that storyline happens a lot to female characters.

[pianolove]

richard the way I understand it, Steve and Bucky spent much of their decades frozen in either the ocean or a cryo chamber which would account for many decades while Isaiah was aging. And Steve did show up in Endgame as an old man in 2023 (?) so I think Steve's version only slowed his aging a little bit. Of course this is just the thought I have, I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me would know for sure

[richard]

Apr 5, 2021 17:52:03 GMT -6 pianolove said:

richard the way I understand it, Steve and Bucky spent much of their decades frozen in either the ocean or a cryo chamber which would account for many decades while Isaiah was aging. And Steve did show up in Endgame as an old man in 2023 (?) so I think Steve's version only slowed his aging a little bit. Of course this is just the thought I have, I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me would know for sure

Ahhh, right. That makes complete sense. I forgot about the whole frozen thing...which is probably one of the top 3 Captain America plot points but I can't possibly be expected to remember everything.

[pianolove]

Apr 5, 2021 17:57:11 GMT -6 richard said:

Apr 5, 2021 17:52:03 GMT -6 pianolove said:

richard the way I understand it, Steve and Bucky spent much of their decades frozen in either the ocean or a cryo chamber which would account for many decades while Isaiah was aging. And Steve did show up in Endgame as an old man in 2023 (?) so I think Steve's version only slowed his aging a little bit. Of course this is just the thought I have, I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me would know for sure

Ahhh, right. That makes complete sense. I forgot about the whole frozen thing...which is probably one of the top 3 Captain America plot points but I can't possibly be expected to remember everything.

Hehe well it’s possible that I have read entirely too much fan fiction and rewatched that trilogy enough times so all movie plot points surrounding Bucky Barnes are ingrained in my brain forevermore 😂

[greykitty]

By fan demand, the one hour Zemo dancing cut!

link

[Lakes]

Apr 6, 2021 6:29:15 GMT -6 pianolove said:

Apr 5, 2021 17:57:11 GMT -6 richard said:

Ahhh, right. That makes complete sense. I forgot about the whole frozen thing...which is probably one of the top 3 Captain America plot points but I can't possibly be expected to remember everything.

Hehe well it’s possible that I have read entirely too much fan fiction and rewatched that trilogy enough times so all movie plot points surrounding Bucky Barnes are ingrained in my brain forevermore 😂

I read a couple Marvel fan fictions here and there but never really got into them because life was busy. The last couple weeks I’ve been in deep. Mostly Wintershock because the show has reignited my Bucky crush. I’ve been going through the fan fiction thread so if I accidentally like your post or one of athn64’s from two years ago you know why 😅

[pianolove]

Apr 9, 2021 5:14:45 GMT -6 Lakes said:

Apr 6, 2021 6:29:15 GMT -6 pianolove said:

Hehe well it’s possible that I have read entirely too much fan fiction and rewatched that trilogy enough times so all movie plot points surrounding Bucky Barnes are ingrained in my brain forevermore 😂

I read a couple Marvel fan fictions here and there but never really got into them because life was busy. The last couple weeks I’ve been in deep. Mostly Wintershock because the show has reignited my Bucky crush. I’ve been going through the fan fiction thread so if I accidentally like your post or one of athn64’s from two years ago you know why 😅

Omg wintershock is my fucking jam! You are in for some great fics my friend. Happy reading! 😁
I’m still lowkey starry eyed over Sebastian Stan from when he was in gossip girl, so I hear ya on a reignited crush haha. That guy ages like a fine wine.

[greykitty]

Oh my. If people are watching with young children, I advise reviewing this episode first, especially the ending.

Just random thoughts now.

Oh, Bucky.

Love Ayo.

Um, who knew there'd be a team Zemo, and I think I'm on it. The man has some points. Kind of like Hannibal Lector. He's a great villain(?)

GRC is iffy, for sure...but geez Karli. I see her position is ambiguous. But the serum hasn't done her any favors, I think.

I love Sam as counsellor.

Head tilt thing made me laugh.

I hope we do eventually get a real feel for what Sharon is up to.

Lemar...I liked you.

I liked the Flag Smasher guy too.

For viewers of a certain age, the term displaced persons reverberates. Or at least for me.

Wyatt Russell is a good actor. I hate John Walker. I wonder how much he knows about the Red Skull, although I suppose this version of the serum won't have quite the same effect. At least physically. I'll give him credit for asking Lemar his opinion though. And I can see why Lemar answered the way he did.

I know the story would end pretty fast, but too bad Bucky didn't stop Walker.

If I were Wakandan, I'd build in a fail-safe too. Sorry, Bucky. I think he admired their foresight, though. Because he is a good man, serum and all.

Looking strong, John! LOL

Again, beware the last scene if watching with little ones.

[athn64]

I need next Friday to get here stat!

I like how they definitely showed the difference between Sam and Walker here. In the questioning of if they would take the serum or not, Sam is an immediate no. And Walker obviously took it.

Also, when Karli called Sarah. EEK. I especially like the line about ho America is concerned with her world so why would she care about their mascot. Which is exactly in Sam's reasoning for giving up the shield.

Also Walker is a dickhead and only getting worse. I had to look away at that last scene.

I'm still curious as to what Sharon's role in everything is. Still crossing fingers that she's not the Power Broker.

Poor Hoskins though.

[athn64]

"Looking Good, John!"

[richard]

This was the best episode so far IMO. At least it was the one that held my attention the best. I've just given up on understanding what Karli's goal is.

Favorite part was when Ayo called him James and took his arm off.

And also this one:

[richard]

[Lakes]

Oh man. That ending was intense. So was Bucky’s flashback.

I really enjoyed the Bucky, Sam, and Zemo trio so I’m glad he didn’t totally dick them over when he got away. Zemo’s character is totally reminding me of Daniel Bruhl’s character in The Alienist with all the philosophy stuff.

Sam definitely doesn’t want that shield back now. It’s so tainted with crazy hate.

[athn64]

Apr 9, 2021 18:14:23 GMT -6 richard said:

MH stated while we were watching that, ever since childhood, he's never trusted anyone that liked Turkish Delight.