athn64
Ruby
Posts: 17,721 Likes: 78,931 
|
Post by athn64 on Apr 9, 2021 18:38:28 GMT -6
Oh man. That ending was intense. So was Bucky’s flashback. I really enjoyed the Bucky, Sam, and Zemo trio so I’m glad he didn’t totally dick them over when he got away. Zemo’s character is totally reminding me of Daniel Bruhl’s character in The Alienist with all the philosophy stuff. Sam definitely doesn’t want that shield back now. It’s so tainted with crazy hate. When Zemo just slipped out, I pointed it out to H, like they are all there for him and MF'er is leaving. I knew he wouldn't be in that bathroom afterwards. |
|
|
|
Post by pianolove on Apr 9, 2021 18:39:50 GMT -6
This episode was all “SAM IS THE TRUE CAPTAIN AMERICA” and the it was all like “JOHN WALKER IS NOT THE TRUE CAPTAIN AMERICA” and then it was like “THIS IS REALLY WHY JOHN WALKER IS NOT THE TRUE CAPTAIN AMERICA.”
I don’t physically react much to shows, but I legit gasped when he did what he did with the shield at the end.
“Looking good, John.” Hehe i stan a heckler boi
|
|
|
|
Post by pianolove on Apr 9, 2021 18:42:27 GMT -6
Guys I’m high as balls right now
|
|
|
|
Post by pianolove on Apr 9, 2021 18:43:06 GMT -6
Oh! And that was the knife scene! See John walker sucks again, what’s with all the knives I mean come on man
|
|
athn64
Ruby
Posts: 17,721 Likes: 78,931
|
Post by athn64 on Apr 9, 2021 18:45:02 GMT -6
Oh! And that was the knife scene! See John walker sucks again, what’s with all the knives I mean come on man I could watch Bucky handle a knife all night long. Joh Walker is just a whiny bitch. |
|
|
|
Post by pianolove on Apr 9, 2021 18:46:37 GMT -6
This is like a really good episode, it was so adventure buddy cop but also so serious like Sam talking to karli, so important to show a peaceful approach first and actually give a crap about someone was so nice to see. Sam told her the truth and actually cared. Another reason I’m so mad at John walker for ruining that
|
|
richard
Emerald
Posts: 13,699
Likes: 128,724
|
Post by richard on Apr 9, 2021 18:48:27 GMT -6
There was a GOT scene where someone (Tyrion I think?) kills someone with a shield and it was very reminiscent. Blech.
|
|
athn64
Ruby
Posts: 17,721 Likes: 78,931
|
Post by athn64 on Apr 9, 2021 18:49:52 GMT -6
This is like a really good episode, it was so adventure buddy cop but also so serious like Sam talking to karli, so important to show a peaceful approach first and actually give a crap about someone was so nice to see. Sam told her the truth and actually cared. Another reason I’m so mad at John walker for ruining that God, Anthony Mackie is a KING! He is sooo good. He deserves all the accolades for his performance. I saw something that noted how Sam was willing to turn his back to Karli during their talk, showing that he trusted her not to attack him. He almost had her talked around. And then John. Of course, he could have told her that he left his "team" outside for all intents and purposes, but I don't see anyway Walker doesn't make it go south. |
|
richard
Emerald
Posts: 13,699
Likes: 128,724
|
Post by richard on Apr 9, 2021 18:52:52 GMT -6
Oh man. That ending was intense. So was Bucky’s flashback. I really enjoyed the Bucky, Sam, and Zemo trio so I’m glad he didn’t totally dick them over when he got away. Zemo’s character is totally reminding me of Daniel Bruhl’s character in The Alienist with all the philosophy stuff. Sam definitely doesn’t want that shield back now. It’s so tainted with crazy hate. When Zemo just slipped out, I pointed it out to H, like they are all there for him and MF'er is leaving. I knew he wouldn't be in that bathroom afterwards. He got out of the handcuffs mere hours before and they all just stopped paying attention to him, lol. |
|
|
|
Post by greykitty on Apr 9, 2021 19:02:52 GMT -6
There was a GOT scene where someone (Tyrion I think?) kills someone with a shield and it was very reminiscent. Blech. Of course they did everything other than run a flashback of Steve and Tony's fight (well, Bucky was there too) in Civil War....when Steve left the shield rather than kill Tony. And now the question is how is the shield redeemed from John Walker (looking straight at Sam). For me, it would be too sad (and too un-Marvel) to leave the shield as we last saw it. Also, I saw some of the upcoming toys. LOL |
|
athn64
Ruby
Posts: 17,721 Likes: 78,931
|
Post by athn64 on Apr 9, 2021 19:05:18 GMT -6
There was a GOT scene where someone (Tyrion I think?) kills someone with a shield and it was very reminiscent. Blech. Of course they did everything other than run a flashback of Steve and Tony's fight (well, Bucky was there too) in Civil War....when Steve left the shield rather than kill Tony. And now the question is how is the shield redeemed from John Walker (looking straight at Sam). For me, it would be too sad (and too un-Marvel) to leave the shield as we last saw it. Also, I saw some of the upcoming toys. LOL We have some trailer footage of Sam training with it, so I know we'll see him in his Captain America getup eventually. |
|
athn64
Ruby
Posts: 17,721 Likes: 78,931
|
Post by athn64 on Apr 9, 2021 19:48:40 GMT -6
We just finished watching so I'm still processing. I just don't know. The second Hoskins died, I said "oh he's gonna go bad" and holy fuck did he. He was going bad even before Hoskins was killed, but his deth definitely pushed Walker over a line. |
|
Lakes
Sapphire
Posts: 3,594
Likes: 13,281
|
Post by Lakes on Apr 10, 2021 5:05:17 GMT -6
We just finished watching so I'm still processing. I just don't know. The second Hoskins died, I said "oh he's gonna go bad" and holy fuck did he. He was going bad even before Hoskins was killed, but his deth definitely pushed Walker over a line. For sure. Was he on something too? He was just so twitchy and sweaty. I assumed he was taking drugs or something before he got ahold of the serum. |
|
|
|
Post by pianolove on Apr 10, 2021 6:07:22 GMT -6
This is like a really good episode, it was so adventure buddy cop but also so serious like Sam talking to karli, so important to show a peaceful approach first and actually give a crap about someone was so nice to see. Sam told her the truth and actually cared. Another reason I’m so mad at John walker for ruining that God, Anthony Mackie is a KING! He is sooo good. He deserves all the accolades for his performance. I saw something that noted how Sam was willing to turn his back to Karli during their talk, showing that he trusted her not to attack him. He almost had her talked around. And then John. Of course, he could have told her that he left his "team" outside for all intents and purposes, but I don't see anyway Walker doesn't make it go south. Yeah I agree, walker was going to do it his way no matter the setup |
|
|
|
Post by greykitty on Apr 10, 2021 7:57:04 GMT -6
@icedtea, That's one of the things I've loved so far about these Marvel series....gives us a chance to see even more how great so many of these Marvel actors are. All of them can do so much with even limited screen time in the movies, but with a little more room to stretch? Knock scenes out of the park.
|
|
willow
Ruby
Posts: 20,098 Likes: 129,004
|
Post by willow on Apr 10, 2021 10:48:48 GMT -6
Do we believe that the others wouldn’t have done the same if the tables were turned? I know Steve would have captured vs killed if it had been Bucky but do we think Bucky would have kept his cool if he saw someone kill Steve? His moral code is different than Steve’s was.
I’m less on the “fuck Walker” train. He makes a good villain but I also 1000% see where he’s coming from.
|
|
willow
Ruby
Posts: 20,098 Likes: 129,004
|
Post by willow on Apr 10, 2021 10:51:49 GMT -6
I’m enjoying this show a lot but I have to admit I am very uninterested in Karli and the flag smashers. I don’t think the actress is very compelling and I don’t really care about her or her mission. They have done much better in other places with villains. Like I think Katheryn Hahn did amazing as Agatha in wandavision and was more interesting.
|
|
athn64
Ruby
Posts: 17,721 Likes: 78,931
|
Post by athn64 on Apr 10, 2021 12:03:43 GMT -6
He was going bad even before Hoskins was killed, but his deth definitely pushed Walker over a line. For sure. Was he on something too? He was just so twitchy and sweaty. I assumed he was taking drugs or something before he got ahold of the serum. H was thinking that too. But IDK could just be the adrenalin from the fight and all. |
|
|
|
Post by pianolove on Apr 10, 2021 12:41:33 GMT -6
Do we believe that the others wouldn’t have done the same if the tables were turned? I know Steve would have captured vs killed if it had been Bucky but do we think Bucky would have kept his cool if he saw someone kill Steve? His moral code is different than Steve’s was. I’m less on the “fuck Walker” train. He makes a good villain but I also 1000% see where he’s coming from. Tbh I don’t think Bucky would have hacked someone to death with the shield. If it came down to it I think he’d do what Steve would have wanted him to do. Maybe I missed something but to me he seems to have a similar moral code to Steve. The wrongs he has committed still weigh heavily on him, I’d be surprised if he added another one on. I do see where he’s coming from. I can certainly empathize with the guy who’s lost his best friend. But i feel like the larger point is that walker (literally) used the shield to brutally satisfy his thirst for vengeance. Which I think is why the quote from erskine is still so important. “Not a good soldier, but a good man.” We know walker is a good soldier. Is he a good man? Maybe but IMO not in the same way that Sam is a good man. |
|
willow
Ruby
Posts: 20,098 Likes: 129,004
|
Post by willow on Apr 10, 2021 12:58:37 GMT -6
Do we believe that the others wouldn’t have done the same if the tables were turned? I know Steve would have captured vs killed if it had been Bucky but do we think Bucky would have kept his cool if he saw someone kill Steve? His moral code is different than Steve’s was. I’m less on the “fuck Walker” train. He makes a good villain but I also 1000% see where he’s coming from. Tbh I don’t think Bucky would have hacked someone to death with the shield. If it came down to it I think he’d do what Steve would have wanted him to do. Maybe I missed something but to me he seems to have a similar moral code to Steve. The wrongs he has committed still weigh heavily on him, I’d be surprised if he added another one on. I do see where he’s coming from. I can certainly empathize with the guy who’s lost his best friend. But i feel like the larger point is that walker (literally) used the shield to brutally satisfy his thirst for vengeance. Which I think is why the quote from erskine is still so important. “Not a good soldier, but a good man.” We know walker is a good soldier. Is he a good man? Maybe but IMO not in the same way that Sam is a good man. I was having a similar discussion with my H earlier. I do agree that the excessiveness of the smashing with the shield was a lot. H pointed out the guy was unarmed but I mean he’s a super soldier so that doesn’t mean the same in my eyes. I’m not trying to defend Walkers actions but I can also just see why that happened the way it did with his adrenaline and former life as a very experienced soldier. I feel like Bucky may or may not have reacted the same way, but it seems more likely from him vs Sam or Steve, he seems to have more of a temper/hair trigger. |
|
|
|
Post by greykitty on Apr 10, 2021 13:18:17 GMT -6
That's an interesting discussion point. What did Steve actually do when he lost his best friend? I doubt anyone would have 'noticed' had anything untoward happened to Zola at any point from the train onward. Although it was certainly a good leverage point to get Zola to work for the Allies.
And I would like to see what Bucky would actually do in a fight truly freed from the Winter Soldier constraints, as well as freed from mimicking being the Winter Solder to protect Sam, and Zemo. I still am struck at how willing to be helpful he was to the 'female hostage' he met - who turned out to be Karli. Not even a hint of 'be ready to take her out if need be' in his stance, I thought. And so far in 'regular' fights hasn't killed anyone, right? No matter what Sam said LOL.
That said, I've always thought Bucky had a strong 'protector' strain (protecting skinny Steve, following him even after he could have taken a discharge in the War). But, if the serum, whichever variety, basically follows Erskine's description, what would we see enhanced in Bucky, once he's had a chance to actually be Bucky for a while? What would Zemo predict, let's say? Or how far would Bucky go to protect regular human Sam, or those he feels fall under his protection or deserve his amends? Wonder if we'll ever see Yori Nakajima again, or what amends was he making to H. Zemo.
"The serum amplifies everything that is inside. So, good becomes great. Bad becomes worse. "
|
|
athn64
Ruby
Posts: 17,721 Likes: 78,931
|
Post by athn64 on Apr 10, 2021 13:59:52 GMT -6
Tbh I don’t think Bucky would have hacked someone to death with the shield. If it came down to it I think he’d do what Steve would have wanted him to do. Maybe I missed something but to me he seems to have a similar moral code to Steve. The wrongs he has committed still weigh heavily on him, I’d be surprised if he added another one on. I do see where he’s coming from. I can certainly empathize with the guy who’s lost his best friend. But i feel like the larger point is that walker (literally) used the shield to brutally satisfy his thirst for vengeance. Which I think is why the quote from erskine is still so important. “Not a good soldier, but a good man.” We know walker is a good soldier. Is he a good man? Maybe but IMO not in the same way that Sam is a good man. I agree with this. I don't think Bucky, Sam, or Steve would have done this. Maybe Tony. Lol. I was thinking of Tony. He's a good man, deep down. But his priorities are skewed and always have been. That said, Bucky is always a little darker than Steve. He makes it his job to protect him, and he's a good person, but Hydra didn't make him a sniper. He already was one. He's very cool and collected and methodical. I don't think he'd lose his head like Walker did if only because of that. But there may be other retaliations down the line. OR maybe I read too many Dark!Bucky stories. |
|
willow
Ruby
Posts: 20,098 Likes: 129,004
|
Post by willow on Apr 10, 2021 14:40:24 GMT -6
I had a very long debate with my H about different avengers and what they would do. I think a lot of them would beat the shit out of or kill someone but perhaps not take it to the over doing it with the shield level.
That said, I still can understand why he got over the top. Idk. I am weirdly feeling devils advocate on Walker even though I don’t really like him haha. I do not think he’s worthy of the suit or the shield though.
|
|
athn64
Ruby
Posts: 17,721 Likes: 78,931
|
Post by athn64 on Apr 10, 2021 14:45:41 GMT -6
|
|
athn64
Ruby
Posts: 17,721 Likes: 78,931
|
Post by athn64 on Apr 10, 2021 22:38:04 GMT -6
Nota🎃, H said the same thing about the mask. Lol. Karli has some speed. And it's Lavar Burton from Star Trek/ Reading Rainbow.
|
|
|
|
Post by greykitty on Apr 11, 2021 7:00:22 GMT -6
Nota🎃, the shield Steve gave Sam isn't the same shield from Endgame. And, as far as I know, we've never gotten a canon explanation of where this shield came from. What Avengers: Endgame fails to explain is how Captain America acquired a version of his shield that's apparently in perfect condition. Tony Stark (Robert Downey, Jr.) is dead, so he couldn't have rebuilt it for him. Also, the shield bears one striking difference to the original: there's a thin stripe in the middle of the large silver stripe on the shield. This means that it's not the same as any other version of the shield wielded by Steve at any point in the MCU. Surprisingly, Avengers: Endgame makes no effort to explain where this shield came from or how it came to be in the possession of Steve Rogers. linkI keep wondering about that shield Tony was working on in one of the Spiderman movies, but who knows? Kevin Feige, presumably.
|
|
willow
Ruby
Posts: 20,098 Likes: 129,004
|
Post by willow on Apr 11, 2021 7:56:55 GMT -6
Nota🎃, the shield Steve gave Sam isn't the same shield from Endgame. And, as far as I know, we've never gotten a canon explanation of where this shield came from. What Avengers: Endgame fails to explain is how Captain America acquired a version of his shield that's apparently in perfect condition. Tony Stark (Robert Downey, Jr.) is dead, so he couldn't have rebuilt it for him. Also, the shield bears one striking difference to the original: there's a thin stripe in the middle of the large silver stripe on the shield. This means that it's not the same as any other version of the shield wielded by Steve at any point in the MCU. Surprisingly, Avengers: Endgame makes no effort to explain where this shield came from or how it came to be in the possession of Steve Rogers. linkI keep wondering about that shield Tony was working on in one of the Spiderman movies, but who knows? Kevin Feige, presumably. In my head he got it during his life back in time, either from Tony or his dad before either died. Or maybe he went to Wakanda to get a new one lol. |
|
|
|
Post by greykitty on Apr 11, 2021 8:37:15 GMT -6
I always wondered whether Shuri or someone did a sweep of the post-Thanos battlefield to pick up all the pieces of that shattered shield. Materially - that's a heck of a lot of vibranium to leave around, right? And historically? Umm, that's the shield that should have gone into the Smithsonian, maybe?
I bet we'll find out all during MCU Phase 7! LOL
|
|
|
|
Post by pianolove on Apr 11, 2021 13:36:59 GMT -6
 I know comparing a (doubly) full-length movie to an hour of footage is apples and oranges, but I chuckled. |
|
|
|
Post by mrsnorris on Apr 11, 2021 21:21:51 GMT -6
Loved that Dora Milaje fight, I could watch those ladies kick ass all day long. I cackled when Ayo disengaged Bucky’s arm.
Also I’m weirdly obsessed with Zemo’s character in this show. He was definitely not this funny in Civil War right?
|
|
