jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Jan 29, 2021 9:13:16 GMT -6
Oh man. The messaging is going to be rough. All communications/ PR professionals on deck.
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layloo
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Post by layloo on Jan 29, 2021 9:14:19 GMT -6
I'm soothing myself with virologists. Thank you for posting this
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Jan 29, 2021 9:28:25 GMT -6
Here is my concern. They are just going to have keep making more and more shots. By the time the J+J shots are all distributed, they'll basically be obsolete. I agree yes, protection against severe protection is important, but these shots aren't going to stop the virus.
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Jan 29, 2021 9:31:49 GMT -6
I double masked at the grocery store today (paper mask plus cloth) and felt like I was getting lightheaded and on the verge of panic, so I guess I'll have to work on that. I feel like maybe the first couple of times I wore a cloth mask it was like that, so hopefully I'll adjust?
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Post by greykitty on Jan 29, 2021 9:57:52 GMT -6
To everyone dealing with COVID hitting at home now, my best wishes for quick and full recoveries.
I wonder if everything feels worse because we're so close to getting shots for most, well, compared to last spring when the whole idea of a vaccine was just a hope. And the variants do scare me.
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ktg
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Post by ktg on Jan 29, 2021 10:09:27 GMT -6
I double masked at the grocery store today (paper mask plus cloth) and felt like I was getting lightheaded and on the verge of panic, so I guess I'll have to work on that. I feel like maybe the first couple of times I wore a cloth mask it was like that, so hopefully I'll adjust? Try a mask bracket! It's a little open frame that holds the mask away from your mouth. I get panicky if the mask sucks up against my face. Most are supposed to go over your nose and mouth, but I wear mine just over my mouth so I can still talk without it shifting. It is still completely covered by the mask. They are cheap and all over Amazon.
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clucky
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Post by clucky on Jan 29, 2021 10:15:19 GMT -6
Anecdotally, a lot of our people are starting to get their second shots. Who does and does not get sick on the second shot has been interesting. A lot of the people who had a confirmed positive last spring are not having symptoms for the second shot. That gives me hope for some longer term immunity. Additionally*, this is what I’ve also been hearing and seeing amongst my now vaccinated acquaintances.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Jan 29, 2021 10:18:03 GMT -6
Dr Fauci just used a lot of big words to basically say, "Stay the eff in your house!!"
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Post by lemondrop on Jan 29, 2021 10:22:30 GMT -6
I'm soothing myself with virologists. I'll mention, too, that not all vaccines are created equal, and ones that aren't showing good efficacy/ results are being pulled from testing. Merck, for example, just pulled this week their ph3 since V590 and V591 didn't meet efficacy standards. Looking at other vaccines, too - the chicken pox vaccine is 82% effective, but almost 100% effective against severe varicella. The vaccine for mumps is 88%. DTaP is 80-90%. A vaccine doesn't need to be 90+% effective for it to be beneficial. So 85% against severe Covid is a pretty good standard and will 100% keep people who are in underserved and vulnerable areas alive. That said, we need to get on vaccinating people with a quickness so we can stop the mutations.
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Post by ldubhawksfan on Jan 29, 2021 10:22:59 GMT -6
J&J is also testing a 2 dose (Ensemble 2 - 2nd shot is 57 days after the 1st). I'm interested in seeing the efficacy of that version. Yes, the 2 dose one was the one I was almost a part of the trial starting a few weeks ago.
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Jan 29, 2021 11:15:52 GMT -6
1 shot j&j that is more easily transported and stored will win out over the higher efficacy shots that take so many resources to transport and once thawed has to be used or tossed and use of twice the syringes, two visits scheduled on really bad websites in many places, two times thru the line, twice the manpower.
Right now we dont have enough doses of the "better" one to get everyone 2 shots.
Maybe its better to give more people one shot of something and then circle around to give more people 2nd shots even if its a different vaccine the 2nd time.
Mom still doesnt have a shot and neither does emt son. If we sat by computer 24/7 to get an appt, we might get one with cancellations and new add on locations but theres like 14 different websites you get sent to to actually register and just haven't made it thru the portal in time.
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richard
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Post by richard on Jan 29, 2021 11:20:35 GMT -6
I'm soothing myself with virologists. I'll mention, too, that not all vaccines are created equal, and ones that aren't showing good efficacy/ results are being pulled from testing. Merck, for example, just pulled this week their ph3 since V590 and V591 didn't meet efficacy standards. Looking at other vaccines, too - the chicken pox vaccine is 82% effective, but almost 100% effective against severe varicella. The vaccine for mumps is 88%. DTaP is 80-90%. A vaccine doesn't need to be 90+% effective for it to be beneficial. So 85% against severe Covid is a pretty good standard and will 100% keep people who are in underserved and vulnerable areas alive. That said, we need to get on vaccinating people with a quickness so we can stop the mutations. I could kiss you on your mouth...if there wasn't a pandemic and I had obtained your consent
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cp3
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Post by cp3 on Jan 29, 2021 11:21:40 GMT -6
You guys have me wondering if I should have DD1 double layer when she's at school. Or if I should get her different masks to wear than cloth. I was wondering the same thing. I ordered these yesterday to try out. I figure these would probably be easier for my 6 yo to manage than 2. But I'm going to look more over the weekend to see if there are better options. Ugh so stressful. www.amazon.com/dp/B08BFKDCD2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_4QRGDPX4KJ6EWNMK7PQM
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euphony
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Post by euphony on Jan 29, 2021 11:22:34 GMT -6
I mean, I hate to sound picky but....I'd rather stay home longer because I have the privilege to do so, which I acknowledge, and wait for a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine. To me there is huge difference between 66-72% and over 90. Really? Cause I will take the J&J now and totally forgo Pfizer and Moderna. Bird in hand and all that.
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Post by blurnette989 on Jan 29, 2021 11:24:25 GMT -6
Oh I see that maybe CNN is saying 72% effective for J&J. Except it’s only 48% when you consider some of the new variants. That Twitter thread I posted this morning goes into a deep dive on this. There will probably be a very limited effectiveness of the J+J vaccine. I mean some protection is better than none, but if I had a choice I would not get it. Lolsob. 50% of cases in my area are now known to be tied to the UK variant. JnJ is a vaccine we've contracted with to provide a good number of our vaxs.
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Jan 29, 2021 11:33:12 GMT -6
Remember that cloth masks are not as good as surgical masks and not as good as n95 masks But weve been wearing those cloth masks because some protection is way way better than none. Getting everybody some kind of vaccine will slow transmission and slow mutations.
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willow
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Post by willow on Jan 29, 2021 12:17:48 GMT -6
I mean, I hate to sound picky but....I'd rather stay home longer because I have the privilege to do so, which I acknowledge, and wait for a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine. To me there is huge difference between 66-72% and over 90. Really? Cause I will take the J&J now and totally forgo Pfizer and Moderna. Bird in hand and all that. Ok. I'm not saying it's a wrong decision to get it and I am hearing the good things about it too. I'm just recognizing my privilege at this moment in time to be picky if I could be. My opinion could change in a week or a month, who knows. This last year has been so insane with how information has transpired.
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Post by lemondrop on Jan 29, 2021 12:47:26 GMT -6
I'll mention, too, that not all vaccines are created equal, and ones that aren't showing good efficacy/ results are being pulled from testing. Merck, for example, just pulled this week their ph3 since V590 and V591 didn't meet efficacy standards. Looking at other vaccines, too - the chicken pox vaccine is 82% effective, but almost 100% effective against severe varicella. The vaccine for mumps is 88%. DTaP is 80-90%. A vaccine doesn't need to be 90+% effective for it to be beneficial. So 85% against severe Covid is a pretty good standard and will 100% keep people who are in underserved and vulnerable areas alive. That said, we need to get on vaccinating people with a quickness so we can stop the mutations. I could kiss you on your mouth...if there wasn't a pandemic and I had obtained your consent
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Post by carmensandiego on Jan 29, 2021 12:56:42 GMT -6
Dr. Feigl-Ding notes in this thread that the Pfizer/Moderna efficacy may be very different at this point because "we're in a different phase of the virus". So maybe J&J will outperform Pfizer/Moderna.
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ktg
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Post by ktg on Jan 29, 2021 12:58:56 GMT -6
I'm soothing myself with virologists. I'll mention, too, that not all vaccines are created equal, and ones that aren't showing good efficacy/ results are being pulled from testing. Merck, for example, just pulled this week their ph3 since V590 and V591 didn't meet efficacy standards.  Looking at other vaccines, too - the chicken pox vaccine is 82% effective, but almost 100% effective against severe varicella. The vaccine for mumps is 88%. DTaP is 80-90%. A vaccine doesn't need to be 90+% effective for it to be beneficial. So 85% against severe Covid is a pretty good standard and will 100% keep people who are in underserved and vulnerable areas alive. That said, we need to get on vaccinating people with a quickness so we can stop the mutations. Just quoting this in again because without the earlier COVID vaccines I don't think anyone would scoff at the efficacy of the J&J vax. I would get it today if I could.
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elle
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Post by elle on Jan 29, 2021 13:10:23 GMT -6
This is beyond awful.
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euphony
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Post by euphony on Jan 29, 2021 13:10:43 GMT -6
Really? Cause I will take the J&J now and totally forgo Pfizer and Moderna. Bird in hand and all that. Ok. I'm not saying it's a wrong decision to get it and I am hearing the good things about it too. I'm just recognizing my privilege at this moment in time to be picky if I could be. My opinion could change in a week or a month, who knows. This last year has been so insane with how information has transpired. I am totally cool with anyone wanting to wait; it just surprises me. My first reaction was: "If it's less effective, can a low risk person like me get it sooner while a they save the top shelf stuff for the high-risk groups? Because, gimme!" It's actually a fairly selfish impulse on my part.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Jan 29, 2021 13:28:39 GMT -6
🤬 “These ventilators were not in State or AID’s strategic plan,” said David Gootnick, director of international affairs and trade at GAO. “They could not articulate for us the criteria they used for what ventilators went to what countries.” Trump White House donated 8,700 ventilators to other nations. Officials now don’t know where many of them are, watchdog finds By Yeganeh Torbati and Lenny Bernstein www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/01/29/usaid-trump-ventilators-watchdog/
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Post by carmensandiego on Jan 29, 2021 13:48:34 GMT -6
🤬 “These ventilators were not in State or AID’s strategic plan,” said David Gootnick, director of international affairs and trade at GAO. “They could not articulate for us the criteria they used for what ventilators went to what countries.” Trump White House donated 8,700 ventilators to other nations. Officials now don’t know where many of them are, watchdog finds By Yeganeh Torbati and Lenny Bernstein www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/01/29/usaid-trump-ventilators-watchdog/The magnitude of the sheer incompetence of that administration will take years to unwind I think.
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Post by lemondrop on Jan 29, 2021 13:54:55 GMT -6
I'll jump in here, too, because I'm all up in my feelings about this.
I understand the desire to be picky about which version of the vax you get. We've spent the better part of the year not having any control over this and wanting the best one is a desire that I think most people have. That said, I would highly suggest if you have access to ANY version, to get it because shots in arms is how we get this virus to stop spreading.
And this:
Is a very real concern. Especially since then it comes down to "but the scientists said!!!!". We can only tell you what the data was at the time that it was taken (I say we, as part of the org.. I am not a scientist). If we re-ran the Pfizer study now, the differences could be... a lot.
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 29, 2021 14:03:05 GMT -6
I ❤️ U lemondrop. You are putting my jumbled thoughts in to great words. Also not judging anyone who wants to wait for whatever reason
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Minerva
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Post by Minerva on Jan 29, 2021 15:03:56 GMT -6
This is a really interesting conversation, with a link to a more in-depth thread about viral mutation. Virologists are seeing convergent evolution in COVID19 variants - mutations in the same areas of the spike protein in the SA and Brazil strains. The good news is that it is very possible that a single vaccine booster could enhance immunity for multiple strains.
The convergent evolution (the same mutation or phenotype evolving independently multiple times) isn’t necessarily surprising because COVID doesn’t have a huge genome to work with and is replicating so quickly in its host population (us). We really need to stop the spread if we want to prevent more variants from evolving. But it is super interesting to watch evolution in action.
This stuff is why teaching evolution well in school, starting young, is so important! Everything in biology makes more sense in the context of evolution.
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Minerva
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Post by Minerva on Jan 29, 2021 15:07:55 GMT -6
I haven’t really even let myself dream that my kids could be vaccinated by fall. I really hope this becomes a reality.
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Post by enchanted on Jan 29, 2021 15:29:07 GMT -6
I will take whatever vaccine is offered to me when it's my turn. Jab my arm so I can see my people* sooner rather than never.
*Who will have also been vaccinated.
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Sundae
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Post by Sundae on Jan 29, 2021 16:06:20 GMT -6
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