joelies
Sapphire
You must chill
Posts: 4,686 Likes: 33,805
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Post by joelies on Jan 3, 2020 12:41:32 GMT -6
Castro with the leadership we need. I can but can’t believe this. It’s just so predictable but terrifying. Did you hear Chris Murphy on NPR earlier today? I was so impressed with how he spoke and cannot understand how anyone cannot respect the man. He was clear in explaining that this was a LAWFUL move if there was an eminenet threat, though obviously the administration now owes them the rationale. But then he went on to explain that the more important consideration was if this was a well-thought out, stategic decision. Because there will be retaliation and no actions should have been taken unless they felt confident that the potential lives saved by the assisination outweighed the potential lives lost in retaliatory efforts. I do not feel confident that Trump or any of his yes men are capable of thinking that far ahead.
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JukEboX
Sapphire
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Post by JukEboX on Jan 3, 2020 12:50:20 GMT -6
Castro with the leadership we need. I can but can’t believe this. It’s just so predictable but terrifying. Did you hear Chris Murphy on NPR earlier today? I was so impressed with how he spoke and cannot understand how anyone cannot respect the man. He was clear in explaining that this was a LAWFUL move if there was an eminenet threat, though obviously the administration now owes them the rationale. But then he went on to explain that the more important consideration was if this was a well-thought out, stategic decision. Because there will be retaliation and no actions should have been taken unless they felt confident that the potential lives saved by the assisination outweighed the potential lives lost in retaliatory efforts. I do not feel confident that Trump or any of his yes men are capable of thinking that far ahead. I whole heartedly agree.
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Post by blurnette989 on Jan 3, 2020 12:50:50 GMT -6
As an outsider to all this, and not fully understanding either the Iran-US angst nor the reason behind so many US troops in the ME - if the embassy is evacuating as many Americans as they can, immediately, and the stated point of troops in Iraq is to protect Us citizens and assets (and support the new Iraqi govt, which has now stated “uhhhh no thanks”) why are they sending more troops to Iraq? To guard the empty embassies? Because war is good for the bankrolls of many wealthy Americans. Also they are sending troops to Iraq as a staging point because we already have military infrastructure there and because of Iranian controlled groups in Iraq.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 3, 2020 13:11:01 GMT -6
It was pointed out somewhere this morning that there have been several ‘false starts’ wrt to Iran over the last year. Remember the tweet about turning back the fighters? I have no doubts that the pentagon and intel communities have been planning something for a while.
I would assume career military have several more steps besides troop deployment because that’s how they operate even if the CiC is a tool. I think the last attack in December was the final straw and they saw this as a proportionate response.
All that said the clusterfuck came because of not notifying house dems. THAT is the crux of my issue. Also if we hadn’t pulled out of jpcoa.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,742 Likes: 94,334
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 3, 2020 13:21:03 GMT -6
Because I’m disgusted with how this was carried out
The other side is he did this and ok’d the strike as a major distraction from documents being released.
If this were normal administration, a bigger deal would’ve have been made about the loss of life and it probably would have garnered support but because the tv personality masquerading as potus has to make everything as dramatic as possible here we are.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,742 Likes: 94,334
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 3, 2020 13:38:16 GMT -6
FYI 45 is expected to make a statement shortly
I’m home for the day. I think I need to down the bottle of wine I have in my fridge before hearing it.
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dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
Posts: 61,695 Likes: 419,664
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Post by dc2london on Jan 3, 2020 13:45:32 GMT -6
As an outsider to all this, and not fully understanding either the Iran-US angst nor the reason behind so many US troops in the ME - if the embassy is evacuating as many Americans as they can, immediately, and the stated point of troops in Iraq is to protect Us citizens and assets (and support the new Iraqi govt, which has now stated “uhhhh no thanks”) why are they sending more troops to Iraq? To guard the empty embassies? Remember that power vacuums allow to the rise of terorist and extremist groups. US forces have done a good job of helping encourage pro-democracy forces in Iraq, and staying there and helping those forces defend themselves against adversaries (e.g. militias) helps to stabilize the region. However, Baghdad could (and may well) argue that our air strike violated Iraq's sovereignty and they could demand that our service members leave the country. And if that happens, there's the risk of antidemocratic forces toppling the current, and somewhat fragile, parliament.
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dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
Posts: 61,695 Likes: 419,664
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Post by dc2london on Jan 3, 2020 13:48:09 GMT -6
This plays into Bibi's hands too He came out in full support of it because of course Iran is a real and constant threat to Israel, so that's not surprising, but, again, a victory against one (horrible, murderous, ruthless) man isn't good strategy if it further destabilizes an already volatile region. There's a reason W and Obama decided against striking Suilemanii
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dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
Posts: 61,695 Likes: 419,664
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Post by dc2london on Jan 3, 2020 13:51:11 GMT -6
Castro with the leadership we need. I can but can’t believe this. It’s just so predictable but terrifying. Did you hear Chris Murphy on NPR earlier today? I was so impressed with how he spoke and cannot understand how anyone cannot respect the man. He was clear in explaining that this was a LAWFUL move if there was an eminenet threat, though obviously the administration now owes them the rationale. But then he went on to explain that the more important consideration was if this was a well-thought out, stategic decision. Because there will be retaliation and no actions should have been taken unless they felt confident that the potential lives saved by the assisination outweighed the potential lives lost in retaliatory efforts. I do not feel confident that Trump or any of his yes men are capable of thinking that far ahead. I first started paying a lot of attention to Chris Murphy bc of his excellent record on gun violence prevention but, truly, he is so fantastic at foreign relations. He'd make an excellent Secretary of State one day.
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Post by blurnette989 on Jan 3, 2020 13:53:17 GMT -6
He came out in full support of it because of course Iran is a real and constant threat to Israel, so that's not surprising, but, again, a victory against one (horrible, murderous, ruthless) man isn't good strategy if it further destabilizes an already volatile region. There's a reason W and Obama decided against striking Suilemanii So much this. W who was all in on starting a war on the thinnest of reasons in Iraq decided against killing Suilemanii. That speaks volumes, because while I think it was Cheney who likely *actually* made the decision, he was as trigger happy as they come in the ME.
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dc2london
Admin
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Posts: 61,695 Likes: 419,664
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Post by dc2london on Jan 3, 2020 13:54:58 GMT -6
I was just missing crimsonandclover yesterday and now I really need her to come in here and give us a crash course
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dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
Posts: 61,695 Likes: 419,664
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Post by dc2london on Jan 3, 2020 14:00:07 GMT -6
ummmmm WHYTF did Pompeo need to talk to Lavrov today?!
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Post by cakewench on Jan 3, 2020 14:01:25 GMT -6
Informing Russia before legislative leadership. This is fine.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,742 Likes: 94,334
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 3, 2020 14:02:47 GMT -6
The have already announced Soloumannis replacement
ETA I know I butchered his name
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Post by 4PrivetDrive on Jan 3, 2020 14:06:50 GMT -6
A student was talking to a co-worker about all this, and co-worker got all huffy and was hand clapping for emphasis "People *clap* need *clap* to*clap* realize *clap* he *clap* was *clap* on *clap* the *clap* terrorist *clap* list". I basically unloaded on her with everything from this thread.
ETA: TGIF.
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Post by cakewench on Jan 3, 2020 14:10:06 GMT -6
Holy crap, I forgot - the House tried to stop this LAST YEAR:
Fuck Mitch.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,742 Likes: 94,334
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 3, 2020 14:11:26 GMT -6
Douglas Silliman is on cnn laying out the case for the strike. He’s a former ambassador to Iraq and Kuwait.
He’s not clear on whether this was proportional
But he laid out like five things the general has done that did warrant this assassination.
He’s also saying we (the US) need to send messages that we DONT want this to escalate the situation
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dc2london
Admin
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Posts: 61,695 Likes: 419,664
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Post by dc2london on Jan 3, 2020 14:13:51 GMT -6
Holy crap, I forgot - the House tried to stop this LAST YEAR: Fuck Mitch. Yep. And Tim Kaine busted ass for MONTHS trying to get a new AUMF.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,742 Likes: 94,334
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 3, 2020 14:14:33 GMT -6
He thinks Iran was trying to provoke a response from the US. The apparent redline was American or American proxy lives lost.
Basically they were TRYING to get us to do this and we obliged.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,742 Likes: 94,334
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 3, 2020 14:17:51 GMT -6
45 is now speaking.
We terminated him. Ugh
Now he’s just talking about how bad Soleimani was
We already knew that.
We took action last night to stop a war we did not take action to start a war. We do not seek a regime change.
He’s doin that leashed speaking thing again.
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Post by notexactly on Jan 3, 2020 14:18:45 GMT -6
And here we are...
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,742 Likes: 94,334
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 3, 2020 14:18:58 GMT -6
WHO WROTE THIS DRIVEL????
No questions.
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Post by cakewench on Jan 3, 2020 14:24:59 GMT -6
WHO WROTE THIS DRIVEL???? No questions. Rhymes with Feeven Diller.
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byjove
Ruby
Posts: 15,345 Likes: 74,993
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Post by byjove on Jan 3, 2020 14:43:21 GMT -6
And here we are... As I said in the other thread, looks like he's trying out a new reelection strategy. BARF
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dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
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Post by dc2london on Jan 3, 2020 14:44:24 GMT -6
And here we are... As I said in the other thread, looks like he's trying out a new reelection strategy. BARF The stock market has been his best argument for reelection, and this is going to mess that up big time
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willow
Ruby
Posts: 19,628 Likes: 125,264
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Post by willow on Jan 3, 2020 14:54:16 GMT -6
I just read an article that talks about a radio show 45 did while he was on the (2016) campaign tour where he confuses Soleimani with the Kurds. So. Not that it is surprising at all, but yeah.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,742 Likes: 94,334
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 3, 2020 15:23:43 GMT -6
Bridge Troll is on with Tapper
He’s such a suck up. Iran better not escalate We as Americans need to get behind the CiC
Vom.....it
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,296 Likes: 219,949
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Post by jaygee on Jan 3, 2020 18:00:00 GMT -6
Holy crap, I forgot - the House tried to stop this LAST YEAR: Fuck Mitch. Yup. Rep Khanna is localish to me and I heard his interview today and he’s like “I had a bill”.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,742 Likes: 94,334
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 3, 2020 18:16:33 GMT -6
I am so flustered that the whole Crooked Media podcast group is on a break until next week. I need them to calm me the fuck down! Pod save the World put a bonus episode up about this today
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dc2london
Admin
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Post by dc2london on Jan 3, 2020 18:26:44 GMT -6
WHAT IS GOING ON
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