dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 7, 2019 17:12:02 GMT -6
re: staffing do you live in some sort of utopia where nobody needs a job? How will they staff this? They'll probably go on Zip Recruiter. (use the promo code CROOKED) I think I'm missing your joke - qualified, vetted staff to care and educate children on the school schedule are just a dime a dozen, yes? Or maybe all the certified after school care centers will transfer their employees to the school system. I've only worked directly with children in 3 states and the District of Columbia but in every single one of them I had to pass an FBI background check and get finger printed first. I know I'm being annoying but your snark is not appreciated.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 7, 2019 17:14:02 GMT -6
I also want to make what I think is a distinction that matters: This is legislation introduced by Senator Kamala Harris. This is not a platform plan from presidential candidate Kamala Harris. Obviously voters will (and should) consider legislative decisions by any candidate when deciding how they will vote. I only say this to mean that she submitted it as a bill that will go through the entire legislative process, this isn't a policy platform that she will attempt to push through via executive action
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Post by greykitty on Nov 7, 2019 17:15:52 GMT -6
I think I'm missing your joke - qualified, vetted staff to care and educate children on the school schedule are just a dime a dozen, yes? Or maybe all the certified after school care centers will transfer their employees to the school system. Actually, my understanding is this is potentially part of the solution. Grants could be used to subsidize existing aftercare programs, and bring them into schools/ arrange transport. Actually, I like that idea more - from the cynical side, segregate the care issue from the teacher/administrator matrix and hopefully achieve insulation from strike situations as I said yesterday. From the positive side, alleviate asking/voluntelling even longer days from teachers and administrators who are, for the most part, overworked already. And, possibly, by funding certified care programs and supporting their personnel utilizing the school buildings, maybe even keeping and creating jobs and maybe even increasing standards for care centers without increasing costs to parents. I was confused because it almost sounded like the reach out to existing programs would often be part of the non-federal partnership mandated in this law.
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Nov 7, 2019 17:16:38 GMT -6
Hi I’ve been in Denver all day and now I’m in the back of a Lyft certain to meet my doom
Not by the driver but holy cow are these roads bad
I’m gonna go back and read all the back and forth on Kamala bill when I won’t be seasick. I’ve missed you all today
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Post by greykitty on Nov 7, 2019 17:18:29 GMT -6
Yeah, I think we talked about the Harris teacher salary proposal and how it would work with the way schools are currently funded.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 7, 2019 17:18:33 GMT -6
Hi I’ve been in Denver all day and now I’m in the back of a Lyft certain to meet my doom Not by the driver but holy cow are these roads bad I’m gonna go back and read all the back and forth on Kamala bill when I won’t be seasick. I’ve missed you all today please be safe I need you
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elle
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Post by elle on Nov 7, 2019 17:18:55 GMT -6
THIS is what we need. Policies to fund programs like these that attempt to level the playing field. We used to live in a rural part of Texas. We had moved there for my husbands job, I didn’t know anyone and his CEO suggested I join junior league to meet people. So I did. lol They had ONE committee I wanted to be a part of. A newly developed program to provide bags of food to kids who otherwise wouldn’t eat on the weekends. It grew quickly- we started with just a few schools and we had principals coming to us to beg us to expand to their school. Hunger was rampant. In the fucking US. Wtf. Anyways, the school district helped us track these kids (anonymously- they assigned them numbers, we didn’t know names), because they knew if we could provide hard data about improved grades, attendance, behavior, etc that funding would increase. The results were incredible. Attendance increased over 300%. Grades increased by 70%. Behavior issues declined (somewhat hard to track, it was a lot of anecdotes from teachers). These kids were healthier. Happier. Able to focus. Things that higher SES students (and their parents) take for granted. Would a federally funded program like that benefit my kids? Hell yes. Not because we need or would accept the food. But because healthier, happier, attentive classmates benefits them. Because healthier, happier kids benefit society.
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Post by greykitty on Nov 7, 2019 17:22:46 GMT -6
I think I'm missing your joke - qualified, vetted staff to care and educate children on the school schedule are just a dime a dozen, yes? Or maybe all the certified after school care centers will transfer their employees to the school system. I've only worked directly with children in 3 states and the District of Columbia but in every single one of them I had to pass an FBI background check and get finger printed first. I know I'm being annoying but your snark is not appreciated. Well, same here re security checks, for volunteers at the Y, library, etc. Can be challenging to fully staff some of the programs.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 7, 2019 17:24:04 GMT -6
I also want to point out that this bill recognizes a concern I have held for years about the movement to flip high school and elementary school start times: 15 year olds getting out of school 3 hours before their parents get out of work is much less of a concern than 7 year olds in the same schedule.
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Post by greykitty on Nov 7, 2019 17:33:18 GMT -6
HOLD UP. greykitty nobody said asking questions is bad. But your posts make it seem like you're being intentionally obtuse. And, FTR, I don't think your obtuse. But this is how legislating works. You sponsor an idea after communicating with stakeholders. Then it goes to committee. It gets banged around there. The federal agency stakeholders review the bill and make suggestions about why x isn't feasible and maybe try y. Here's where you're going to need extra money. Committee bangs it around some more. Might go back to the agencies again. There might be hearings with non govt stakeholders. Then they come up with something that can get enough votes. Then implementing agencies propose regulations to make the law work. Regulations go thru public comment. Might get tweaked before they're finalized. THAT is when you know the nitty gritty details. Yep - but when a presidential candidate who is generally acknowledged to be having some issues in polling and contributions comes up with a very appealing, on the surface, bill, designed to appeal to blocks of voters, without addressing at least some of the obvious questions - you got to wonder.....what was her intent? Why now? BTW, Bloomberg may be joining the race.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 7, 2019 17:37:07 GMT -6
I've only worked directly with children in 3 states and the District of Columbia but in every single one of them I had to pass an FBI background check and get finger printed first. I know I'm being annoying but your snark is not appreciated. Well, same here re security checks, for volunteers at the Y, library, etc. Can be challenging to fully staff some of the programs. We sometimes have a hard time filling IA positions here in my county bc the COL is :batshit insane: but the IA pay is borderline offensively low. But again, I think that's a reason it's a GOOD idea to allow existing staff to fill these positions.
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Post by Uncaripswife on Nov 7, 2019 17:37:23 GMT -6
I think the POINT of this bill is to strengthen existing after school programs, expand them to other districts and make them available to a wider group of parents who might otherwise not be able to afford them. Like the program byjove and I have access to in our school district. Ok, then I don't see why they reference teachers at all. If we're talking about, oh, having more entities like Boys & Girls having access to the school buildings, why talk about teachers and paying them? And dealing with keeping schools open during planning days etc. Because as someone pointed out up thread, SOME teachers in cash strapped places (looking at you, Oklahoma and WV) might welcome the side gig to make extra $. Or, because some trained teachers who are now part time stay at home parents (my H) might like one of these gigs.
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Post by Uncaripswife on Nov 7, 2019 17:40:40 GMT -6
HOLD UP. greykitty nobody said asking questions is bad. But your posts make it seem like you're being intentionally obtuse. And, FTR, I don't think your obtuse. But this is how legislating works. You sponsor an idea after communicating with stakeholders. Then it goes to committee. It gets banged around there. The federal agency stakeholders review the bill and make suggestions about why x isn't feasible and maybe try y. Here's where you're going to need extra money. Committee bangs it around some more. Might go back to the agencies again. There might be hearings with non govt stakeholders. Then they come up with something that can get enough votes. Then implementing agencies propose regulations to make the law work. Regulations go thru public comment. Might get tweaked before they're finalized. THAT is when you know the nitty gritty details. Yep - but when a presidential candidate who is generally acknowledged to be having some issues in polling and contributions comes up with a very appealing, on the surface, bill, designed to appeal to blocks of voters, without addressing at least some of the obvious questions - you got to wonder.....what was her intent? Why now? BTW, Bloomberg may be joining the race. I believe dc2london addressed this
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 7, 2019 17:45:12 GMT -6
doing my third read through now. To whomever said they don't like that parents can't pay for it, it's not about not letting parents pay, it's about making sure localities and districts don't *require* parents to pay, which would undermine the entire program
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Post by greykitty on Nov 7, 2019 17:45:44 GMT -6
Well, same here re security checks, for volunteers at the Y, library, etc. Can be challenging to fully staff some of the programs. We sometimes have a hard time filling IA positions here in my county bc the COL is :batshit insane: but the IA pay is borderline offensively low. But again, I think that's a reason it's a GOOD idea to allow existing staff to fill these positions. And I'm reasonably sure that's why the bill leans on existing staff - already vetted, already on a contract specifying pay, and can spin saying it helps teachers increase their overall salary. Again, though, being voluntold is, I think, a big issue - and I think most of us in any field have been in that exact situation of taking more hours than we wanted but felt we had little choice in the matter.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 7, 2019 17:48:21 GMT -6
Yep - but when a presidential candidate who is generally acknowledged to be having some issues in polling and contributions comes up with a very appealing, on the surface, bill, designed to appeal to blocks of voters, without addressing at least some of the obvious questions - you got to wonder.....what was her intent? Why now? BTW, Bloomberg may be joining the race. I believe dc2london addressed this I'm going to start beginning all of my posts with, "Per my previous email,"
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Post by greykitty on Nov 7, 2019 17:49:06 GMT -6
doing my third read through now. To whomever said they don't like that parents can't pay for it, it's not about not letting parents pay, it's about making sure localities and districts don't *require* parents to pay, which would undermine the entire program And I get that - but I still wonder if allowing even a very minimal copay would allow a sense of ownership within the program. Maybe not, and I'm not appalled by it, but I do tend to feel most people value what they pay for, in cash or in kind, even at a very nominal level, than what they're given.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 7, 2019 17:49:29 GMT -6
We sometimes have a hard time filling IA positions here in my county bc the COL is :batshit insane: but the IA pay is borderline offensively low. But again, I think that's a reason it's a GOOD idea to allow existing staff to fill these positions. And I'm reasonably sure that's why the bill leans on existing staff - already vetted, already on a contract specifying pay, and can spin saying it helps teachers increase their overall salary. Again, though, being voluntold is, I think, a big issue - and I think most of us in any field have been in that exact situation of taking more hours than we wanted but felt we had little choice in the matter. We did 15 rounds on voluntolding yesterday and I believe we landed almost, if not unanimously, on everyone saying it is a concern
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 7, 2019 17:51:14 GMT -6
doing my third read through now. To whomever said they don't like that parents can't pay for it, it's not about not letting parents pay, it's about making sure localities and districts don't *require* parents to pay, which would undermine the entire program And I get that - but I still wonder if allowing even a very minimal copay would allow a sense of ownership within the program. Maybe not, and I'm not appalled by it, but I do tend to feel most people value what they pay for, in cash or in kind, even at a very nominal level, than what they're given. the program encourages partnership with existing community-based organizations. If Boys and Girls Club, for example, is doing a great job in your child's school (or the school down the street or across the state) under this grant program, nothing says you can't make a donation to Boys and Girls Club.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Nov 7, 2019 17:54:58 GMT -6
I think the POINT of this bill is to strengthen existing after school programs, expand them to other districts and make them available to a wider group of parents who might otherwise not be able to afford them. Like the program byjove and I have access to in our school district. Ok, then I don't see why they reference teachers at all. If we're talking about, oh, having more entities like Boys & Girls having access to the school buildings, why talk about teachers and paying them? And dealing with keeping schools open during planning days etc. Because different communities have different set ups. Some have existing organizations they can partner with like B&G clubs. Some may not and maybe their trial at the local level does involve teachers. And the point is not just to expand existing programs because the existing programs simply don’t exist everywhere or are not accessible. So this plan is saying - the goal is school hours that match work hours - pilot communities, here is money to achieve that in a way that makes sense for your infrastructure, resources, population, etc. If we just expand the current system and don’t involve the school systems we get the same model as today which works incredibly well for rich and middle class white people and very poorly for everyone else.
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richard
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Post by richard on Nov 7, 2019 17:59:22 GMT -6
I have never seen dc2london so heated and I'm loving it. I'm behind because I'm in work hell but our school district has what's called extended day learning. At our schools it runs for 2 hours after school, 2 days a week. There are different themes/music lessons/activities and it's all free for students. I believe that teachers apply to teach them as separate positions like they would for a coaching job. Again, haven't read yet, but if it's something like that but rolled out five days a week, I could see it being feasible. The hardest part IMO would probably be the days off because then teachers can't be available. I skipped over some pages so I may have missed this being said, but the bill also seems to be a pilot program for 500 schools. So I'm not really sure why people are so against it...try something new. See how it goes!
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Post by Uncaripswife on Nov 7, 2019 17:59:28 GMT -6
And I'm reasonably sure that's why the bill leans on existing staff - already vetted, already on a contract specifying pay, and can spin saying it helps teachers increase their overall salary. Again, though, being voluntold is, I think, a big issue - and I think most of us in any field have been in that exact situation of taking more hours than we wanted but felt we had little choice in the matter. We did 15 rounds on voluntolding yesterday and I believe we landed almost, if not unanimously, on everyone saying it is a concern Unity horse
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Nov 7, 2019 17:59:50 GMT -6
Hi I’ve been in Denver all day and now I’m in the back of a Lyft certain to meet my doom Not by the driver but holy cow are these roads bad I’m gonna go back and read all the back and forth on Kamala bill when I won’t be seasick. I’ve missed you all today Not to worry - all the pot tax money is going to fix them!
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Post by greykitty on Nov 7, 2019 18:12:18 GMT -6
Ok, then I don't see why they reference teachers at all. If we're talking about, oh, having more entities like Boys & Girls having access to the school buildings, why talk about teachers and paying them? And dealing with keeping schools open during planning days etc. Because different communities have different set ups. Some have existing organizations they can partner with like B&G clubs. Some may not and maybe their trial at the local level does involve teachers. And the point is not just to expand existing programs because the existing programs simply don’t exist everywhere or are not accessible. So this plan is saying - the goal is school hours that match work hours - pilot communities, here is money to achieve that in a way that makes sense for your infrastructure, resources, population, etc. If we just expand the current system and don’t involve the school systems we get the same model as today which works incredibly well for rich and middle class white people and very poorly for everyone else. And that's why I've said I really hope they get a very wide range of schools/communities to test this - not only might we find some things that work much better than anticipated (and what doesn't), but it'll be an easier sell if indeed this would be expanded to every public school in the country and it can be demonstrated how each district can tailor the program to their needs. And I thought that was the intent - full expansion of extended hours in some fashion to all public schools after the test. No?
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 7, 2019 18:20:10 GMT -6
I would like to thank this thread for firmly cementing my plan to get a public policy masters
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Post by Uncaripswife on Nov 7, 2019 18:22:16 GMT -6
Hi I’ve been in Denver all day and now I’m in the back of a Lyft certain to meet my doom Not by the driver but holy cow are these roads bad I’m gonna go back and read all the back and forth on Kamala bill when I won’t be seasick. I’ve missed you all today Not to worry - all the pot tax money is going to fix them! Man, I wish we had pot tax money to fix roads.
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Post by notblanche on Nov 7, 2019 18:23:58 GMT -6
I would like to thank this thread for firmly cementing my plan to get a public policy masters You 100% need to do this.
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Post by Uncaripswife on Nov 7, 2019 18:24:01 GMT -6
dc2london is this a bad time to tell you I have to telework on the day you're doing the thing at the law school? 😬
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Nov 7, 2019 18:35:21 GMT -6
I appreciate the commentary regarding teachers volunteering and issues related to that. I think it’s important to focus on that during implementation. But I also think that’s going to be a very local level decision. For example, my area is an area where teachers are looking for second jobs so many would likely volunteer to work more hours at the place they are already at (rather than leaving for the day and going to another job). But in other areas maybe that’s not the case and teachers aren’t the best solution.
That’s why I like that it’s a pilot and that local communities can tailor it for themselves. That makes the most sense for something like this to me.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 7, 2019 18:44:54 GMT -6
Because different communities have different set ups. Some have existing organizations they can partner with like B&G clubs. Some may not and maybe their trial at the local level does involve teachers. And the point is not just to expand existing programs because the existing programs simply don’t exist everywhere or are not accessible. So this plan is saying - the goal is school hours that match work hours - pilot communities, here is money to achieve that in a way that makes sense for your infrastructure, resources, population, etc. If we just expand the current system and don’t involve the school systems we get the same model as today which works incredibly well for rich and middle class white people and very poorly for everyone else. And that's why I've said I really hope they get a very wide range of schools/communities to test this - not only might we find some things that work much better than anticipated (and what doesn't), but it'll be an easier sell if indeed this would be expanded to every public school in the country and it can be demonstrated how each district can tailor the program to their needs. And I thought that was the intent - full expansion of extended hours in some fashion to all public schools after the test. No? I think you are spot on about wanting the pilot program to work in a diverse group of communities. What will serve communities well in LA will probably not be the same as what serves communities well in Appalachia. And what works in Flint, MI might not work in rural Idaho. I think the overarching goal of the program long term is to empower communities to help working families get by. I think starting with expanding the child supervision and education that public schools already provide at no *direct* cost to families (obv, taxes, bond initiatives etc are a cost to families) seems like a great jumping off point bc schools are already fixtures in the community --they are meeting places, polling places, and free spaces available to community organizations (for example, I often book our Moms Demand Action meetings in our public schools bc they are free, clean, comfortable spaces that are right in the neighborhoods we are trying to help).
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