soup
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Post by soup on Mar 19, 2019 18:10:51 GMT -6
I am never on board with parents having to 100% check out of their child's education. You should want to build up and provide resources for those that are missing that, not tying the hands of kids that do. I'm not saying any parent should check out. I'm only saying it's important to acknowledge that not every household is lucky enough to have parents who are capable of checking in. I'm not really understanding why this is controversial.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 19, 2019 18:11:34 GMT -6
I mean yes I had parental support throughout my entire school life through college. Which is privileged. Unfair advantage? Maybe. IDK. Life is generally unfair. Look, I hope you don't think I'm picking on you, but I think your experience is probably the experience that many posters had. Of course it is an advantage to have parents who speak English. Of course it is an advantage to have parents who are capable of assisting. Of course it is an advantage to have parents who are home and not working a night shift. Of course it is an advantage to have parents who can foot application fees. These are all advantages. I had advantages, too. I feel we can all acknowledge this. I have acknowledged my privilege multiple times in this thread.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 19, 2019 18:12:43 GMT -6
I can’t find a way to word this correctly and I hope it doesn’t come across offensively (I know it will because this place).
I acknowledge my privilege in my upbringing. I had a lot of advantages others didn’t have. That doesn’t mean that I didn’t work damn hard to earn my grades and my entrance into college.
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soup
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Post by soup on Mar 19, 2019 18:13:07 GMT -6
Life is generally unfair. Look, I hope you don't think I'm picking on you, but I think your experience is probably the experience that many posters had. Of course it is an advantage to have parents who speak English. Of course it is an advantage to have parents who are capable of assisting. Of course it is an advantage to have parents who are home and not working a night shift. Of course it is an advantage to have parents who can foot application fees. These are all advantages. I had advantages, too. I feel we can all acknowledge this. I have acknowledged my privilege multiple times in this thread. You just said "Maybe. IDK" up there! LOL.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 19, 2019 18:14:23 GMT -6
Also I don’t necessarily think teachers should be expected to be the ones all kids are relying on for this sort of help. That isn’t the best solution, IMO.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 19, 2019 18:15:04 GMT -6
I have acknowledged my privilege multiple times in this thread. You just said "Maybe. IDK" up there! LOL. I don’t really think it is unfair, was my point with that comment.
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soup
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Post by soup on Mar 19, 2019 18:16:31 GMT -6
I mean, that mom with the nightshift might not be able to read to her kids. Is the answer to say no parent can read to their kids? That's not what you're saying, but you don't have to go that far down the logical nexus you are using to get there. No, actually you've made an extraordinary leap there.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 19, 2019 18:16:42 GMT -6
I am never on board with parents having to 100% check out of their child's education. You should want to build up and provide resources for those that are missing that, not tying the hands of kids that do. I'm not saying any parent should check out. I'm only saying it's important to acknowledge that not every household is lucky enough to have parents who are capable of checking in.
I'm not really understanding why this is controversial. Show me where this wasn't happening.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 19, 2019 18:17:59 GMT -6
I am never on board with parents having to 100% check out of their child's education. You should want to build up and provide resources for those that are missing that, not tying the hands of kids that do. I'm not saying any parent should check out. I'm only saying it's important to acknowledge that not every household is lucky enough to have parents who are capable of checking in. I'm not really understanding why this is controversial. Where are people not acknowledging this? It seems like everyone in this thread recognizes this as fact.
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Post by miawallace on Mar 19, 2019 18:22:45 GMT -6
I have feelings about all of this. I feel like because I was completely alone in my education I feel like my grades always reflected 100% me. I was by no means a genius. School was always a struggle for me all the way up to college. It wasn’t fun at all. I didn’t get the fun college experience. So when I heard of this I was very angry. I felt sorry for no one. My parents speak very little English. I didn’t get anything proofread. I’m just explaining why sometimes I’ll see the extra help some Kids get that I didn’t get as unfair. Again, I know things aren’t always black and white. There are nuances. So I am trying to step back and try not to project. But it’s not the norm for kids like me. Also I’m not talking about every day homework stuff - although my parents didn’t help with thah either. I’m talking about graded projects. Graded papers. Assignments that contribute to grading. I find that stuff unfair. I’m mostly rambling.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 19, 2019 18:22:49 GMT -6
I mean, that mom with the nightshift might not be able to read to her kids. Is the answer to say no parent can read to their kids? That's not what you're saying, but you don't have to go that far down the logical nexus you are using to get there. No, actually you've made an extraordinary leap there. No, not really. Telling parents they are doing their kids work because they proofread a major paper or scholarship application and it's unfair because other kids don't have that parent so no one should do it is going right down that road. Is it privileged? Absolutely. I have not seen anyone say otherwise. I know I was lucky I had a mom that could help with that after dinner and I didn't have to get to school early and hope the teacher I needed was available. My son has an advantage that I understand his math homework and can help him keep moving forward when he gets stuck. I'm not going to not teach him things I know because someone else may not know them. I hope he takes those things and explains them to someone else.
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Post by miawallace on Mar 19, 2019 18:25:15 GMT -6
I see a major difference between explaining your kids the material and doing partial or all of it. I know parents who took over a major project. That’s something.
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Post by shan-ah-doo on Mar 19, 2019 18:26:52 GMT -6
This is just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. It’s starting to sound ridiculous and isn’t going anywhere.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 19, 2019 18:30:24 GMT -6
I see a major difference between explaining your kids the material and doing partial or all of it. I know parents who took over a major project. That’s something. Absolutely agree. That is too far and part of why they need to stop making those home assignments. I get annoyed when a "family" homework gets sent home. I did my time.
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Post by miawallace on Mar 19, 2019 18:34:34 GMT -6
I think that’s what’s being argued. As a parent you should be helping your kid not doing everything for them. But you know how we roll take an extreme and argue it to death. I don’t think most parents are being the unethical extreme here. But I hope it helps everyone reflect how they’ve been involved in their children’s education/ life etc. Whether it be negative or positive. It’s just something to think about because apparently with this story many parents don’t have those boundaries set.
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 19, 2019 18:58:36 GMT -6
But proofreading is proofreading in my book. 🤷🏻♀️ Really? No ones gonna “ISWYDT”???? Dammit, it was a good one too.
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Post by shan-ah-doo on Mar 19, 2019 19:11:50 GMT -6
Really? No ones gonna “ISWYDT”???? Dammit, it was a good one too. Such a waste.
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 19, 2019 19:12:13 GMT -6
Read to your children. Help them with their homework if you want. Proofread their college essays. We all want to set our kids up for success.
I know it's been said a hundred times already but I do think it is important to acknowledge that the fact that you can do those things for your kids is giving them an advantage. Being white is giving them an advantage. No one here is telling you to stop being white.
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 19, 2019 19:22:18 GMT -6
But it's different when one kid can ask his mom to proofread, and another kid's mom doesn't speak English. Or another kid's mom works at night. Both kids could ask a teacher for proofreading assistance. That's equal footing. The kid whose mom doesn't speak English and the kid whose mom has a night shift are at disadvantage because they don't have that extra, convenient resource at home. But that's a level of inequality that it wouldn't be smart to police. Is it an unfair advantage that the child whose parents don't speak English grows up bilingual? Therefore growing neural connections that many kids in the US school system could only dream of. Should we set that back to equal footing? Of course some students are advantaged/disadvantaged because of various aspects of their home life. I mean, that mom with the nightshift might not be able to read to her kids. Is the answer to say no parent can read to their kids? That's not what you're saying, but you don't have to go that far down the logical nexus you are using to get there. I'm really having a hard time gathering my thoughts on this. Like, that is the one advantage we might have, that happened out of sheer necessity and accompanied by much hardship and a hundred other disadvantages that come with being an immigrant or a child of immigrants.
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 19, 2019 19:27:57 GMT -6
Don't you dare come after my neural connections. I earned those motherfuckers.
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rvasc
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Post by rvasc on Mar 19, 2019 19:38:43 GMT -6
I have parents call me for their adult children in my work. No, I can't talk to you!! My coworker has a scheduled, quarterly check in with his son’s boss. His son is a 27 year old man. We have a new guy who is 23. His dad came in the office and handed his business card to our secretary and told him to call her if he got out of line. She was
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 19, 2019 19:59:47 GMT -6
piratecat , that's very true, and my point wasn't that being a child of immigrants is an advantageous position, but rather that home life comes with a variety of advantages/disadvantages and policing, or limiting, parental involvement isn't a good way to equalize opportunity, even if it's part of why opportunity is unequal. I didn't see it as anyone trying to police anyone else, just sharing opinions and anecdotes, as we do. Your example of better developed neural connections from being bilingual as an advantage, in response to all the disadvantages of being a child of immigrants, makes me feel a way that I am having trouble articulating. I mean, yea, we are smart and empathetic AF, but I see it more as a favorable consequence and that seems different than advantage/privilege to me.
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soup
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Post by soup on Mar 19, 2019 20:04:07 GMT -6
Not by their parents. LOL. I think this is missing (deliberately ignoring?) the point and I think you and a few others have gone wayyyy askew in this parental thing. OMGGGGGGGG. This was clearly a joke. The other stuff, though? No, I don’t think I’ve gone askew. I’ll go one step further now and say I think it’s disgusting it’s being alleged that being a child of non-English-speaking immigrants is actually an advantage. You want askew? That’s askew.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 19, 2019 20:05:25 GMT -6
We have literally gone from talking about actual fraud and illegal activity to saying parents who proofread and help with work are giving their kids an unfair advantage. Sounds about right for us.
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Post by stayingblonde on Mar 19, 2019 20:10:15 GMT -6
Don’t authors have their shit proofread? They do. However, an author who is published by a traditional publisher has editing and copyediting services provided to them, while a self-published author would either need to do it themselves or spend money to hire someone to do it for them. And when it comes to awards, you generally won't see them competing in the same categories because they aren't exactly equal.
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 19, 2019 20:12:35 GMT -6
Oh lord. So some things are favorable consequences and other things are privileges and unfair advantages. Let’s grt a chart drawn up here. It’s like a game of Hi-Ho-Cherry-O Which bucket does this cherry go into... You clearly have an unfair advantage here because I've never had the privilege of playing that game.
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Post by hardlyluck on Mar 19, 2019 20:13:07 GMT -6
But it's different when one kid can ask his mom to proofread, and another kid's mom doesn't speak English. Or another kid's mom works at night. Both kids could ask a teacher for proofreading assistance. That's equal footing. The kid whose mom doesn't speak English and the kid whose mom has a night shift are at disadvantage because they don't have that extra, convenient resource at home. But that's a level of inequality that it wouldn't be smart to police. Is it an unfair advantage that the child whose parents don't speak English grows up bilingual? Therefore growing neural connections that many kids in the US school system could only dream of. Should we set that back to equal footing? Of course some students are advantaged/disadvantaged because of various aspects of their home life. I mean, that mom with the nightshift might not be able to read to her kids. Is the answer to say no parent can read to their kids? That's not what you're saying, but you don't have to go that far down the logical nexus you are using to get there. HilarityEnsued it’s in here. But it is being taken out of context in my opinion.
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soup
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Post by soup on Mar 19, 2019 20:13:07 GMT -6
I am clearly very bitter about my childhood experiences, so I am indeed projecting here.
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 19, 2019 20:14:25 GMT -6
I am clearly very bitter about my childhood experiences, so I am indeed projecting here. There, there. *pat pat pat*
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 19, 2019 20:17:42 GMT -6
HilarityEnsued it’s in here. But it is being taken out of context in my opinion. I want to be really clear that I used being bilingual in that post specifically as an example of why these are NOT unfair advantages, because being bilingual is so obviously NOT an unfair advantage. But I thought upthread people were saying how everyone is acknowledging that certain things were an advantage.
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