fatpony
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Post by fatpony on Feb 1, 2020 14:05:55 GMT -6
I'm very blinky guy about unifying the party with a guy who is a declared NOT member of the party.
But I'd plug my nose and vote for him.
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cnf
Ruby
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Post by cnf on Feb 1, 2020 14:08:01 GMT -6
Honestly, if Bernie gets the nomination, I don't even know that he would win over Trump. He's polarizing in his own right and far too "socialist" for anyone with any moderacy in their blood. It would just become an old white man yelling match about who is more right and I think, besides the rabid base of each, most other voters would be very turned off.
I will never vote for Bernie in the primary. Never. I do not like him, his stances, his behaviors, they way he treats and interacts with people, or the way he is only a Dem for his own self and uses it for his own gain. If he does become the nominee he will very much be a pinch my nose and close my eyes vote. Only because I saw what happened in 2016 to people who turned their noses when they felt the choice was choosing a "lesser of two evils".
Everyone has the right to vote as they see fit for reasons of their own. I respect that. But I will say, I do not believe he can beat Trump.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 1, 2020 14:12:41 GMT -6
Also, not to extend this but just to clarify...I do think a couple of issues are being conflated here. There are calls for unity in the party. However, that’s not high on my priority list. Unity is all good and well when it happens organically but I’m not a open the tent up to the masses and cuddle up just anyone type. I’m fine with some disagreement and some mess. We aren’t going to unify everyone. And it’s kind of what’s wrong with the GOP - they fall in line when they shouldn’t. Push back and disagreement is good to me, especially in a primary. Someone calls themselves a dem but they are racist, naw that isn’t working for me. This is just in general - not a 2020 or a Bernie thing. Just my way - I’m not going to embrace one and all. I have my opinion on what the dem platform should be and I’m going to align with those closest to that. I’m not saying I’m right but just saying that’s how I view the process. So just to clarify, I personally am not calling for party unity on one hand and saying never Bernie on the other. Maybe others are but I’m pretty comfortable with where I land from a logical perspective. This is a good point. I know lefty Twitter disagrees with me but, personally, I'm glad we aren't the "fall in line no matter what" party. I'm glad Pelosi knows when to let Democratic Reps not vote with the party. I'm ok with Joe Manchin voting to acquit if that's what his conscience tells him to do. I'm aware that this is unpopular. Party fealty above all else, and ends that justify means created a slippery slope where the Republican party has entirely backed an anhorrent, overtly racist, nightmare of a person. I refuse to let that happen to the Democratic party. (That is not me directly comparing 45* to anyone else directly). Ugh, I desperately wish we were having this primary against Mitt Romney or Jeb(!). The calculus would be completely different.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 1, 2020 14:16:05 GMT -6
I think Biden can beat Trump. I think Klobuchar could beat Trump, I think the polling on her reflects a lack of name recognition and not much else.
I don't align with either of them ideologically. On paper I'm an obvious Warren voter. But I really don't know who I'll cast my primary vote for. Idk, man. I'm waiting to see what happens in SC.
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cnf
Ruby
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Post by cnf on Feb 1, 2020 14:21:01 GMT -6
Right now my vote will either be Amy or Warren. Petty party of me, but I'm so fucking over old white men that I won't vote for Biden in the primary purely on that very shallow reason. Call me out as you wish, but that's where I am right now. I'll vote Dem right down ballot on election day.
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fatpony
Amethyst
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Post by fatpony on Feb 1, 2020 14:26:31 GMT -6
I think Biden can beat Trump. I think Klobuchar could beat Trump, I think the polling on her reflects a lack of name recognition and not much else. I don't align with either of them ideologically. On paper I'm an obvious Warren voter. But I really don't know who I'll cast my primary vote for. Idk, man. I'm waiting to see what happens in SC. Agreed. With all your points, except primary I'll be voting for Warren.
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richard
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Post by richard on Feb 1, 2020 14:27:19 GMT -6
I still don't know who I'm going to vote for in the primary. I'm going to wait and see what shakes out of the early states before making a final decision although I'm leaning strongly to Warren.
I'm a little nervous being in MN as there's been a lot of support for Warren in polls but those are all from last fall and Klobuchar is clearly also going to get a lot of support here. I'm nervous about the three-way split between them and Biden helping Bernie.
I need to see some new MN polling. ::prays to the polling gods::
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richard
Emerald
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Post by richard on Feb 1, 2020 14:28:45 GMT -6
I just can't shake that Bernie won MN last time.
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Post by flippinchica on Feb 1, 2020 14:35:23 GMT -6
Right now my vote will either be Amy or Warren. Petty party of me, but I'm so fucking over old white men that I won't vote for Biden in the primary purely on that very shallow reason. Call me out as you wish, but that's where I am right now. I'll vote Dem right down ballot on election day. My heart feels this way but depending on how things stand by super Tuesday I may have to vote for Biden for pragmatic reasons.
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cnf
Ruby
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Post by cnf on Feb 1, 2020 14:42:02 GMT -6
Right now my vote will either be Amy or Warren. Petty party of me, but I'm so fucking over old white men that I won't vote for Biden in the primary purely on that very shallow reason. Call me out as you wish, but that's where I am right now. I'll vote Dem right down ballot on election day. My heart feels this way but depending on how things stand by super Tuesday I may have to vote for Biden for pragmatic reasons. My primary isn't until the end of April, so a lot will change by then. I may feel differently at that point, but for now I'm firmly in the no old white men on primary day camp.
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Post by doublestuf on Feb 1, 2020 14:52:49 GMT -6
I actually really like Yang. Not for President, mind you, but I think he really has a pulse on what technology will mean in the upcoming years and decades. Someone like that having some actual power to influence policy is huge. That being said, I would never equate Bernie and Yang. The best I can tell, they both just have nicknames that are a bit of an earworm. Also, team #nomoreyellingoldwhitemen. I don't equate Bernie and Yang, as individuals or with policy. But the demographics of their bases are oddly quite similar. At least around here they are. It might be regional.
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starbuck
Emerald
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Post by starbuck on Feb 1, 2020 14:54:26 GMT -6
I don't equate Bernie and Yang, as individuals or with policy. But the demographics of their bases are oddly quite similar. At least around here they are. It might be regional. My goodness @ those Yang Gang numbers.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Feb 1, 2020 14:55:32 GMT -6
🤣🤣🤣
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richard
Emerald
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Post by richard on Feb 1, 2020 15:19:55 GMT -6
My goodness @ those Yang Gang numbers. I just looked at the #s because I was also like "whoa." It's 38 people, 18 of whom are Republican (2) or Independent/other (16). Yang and Pete have by far the highest % of non-registered-Dem supporters in the poll at 40% and 50% respectively and Bernie is around 16%. What's interesting to me is that Warren has significantly higher non-registered-Dem supporter % than Bernie or Biden but she also has the highest percentage of supporters saying they would still vote for the Dem nominee.
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Post by PandaWatch on Feb 1, 2020 15:45:23 GMT -6
I mean yes, absolutely. Everyone gets to cast or not cast their vote as they deem. No one owns another persons vote. BUT how is this different than the Never Hillary crowd? How does this privilege support marginalized populations being very seriously hurt by our current administration, in refusing to suck it up and vote against Trump, if not for the nominee? RTA and on top of that, these same voters really don’t get to rally about unifying the party or play the blame game about who cost whom the 2020 election. Because Senator Bernard Sanders may also seriously hurt marginalized people. His record, his behavior, his associations, and his own words do not convince me that he is here for women or POC. My never Bernie stance is based on him as a candidate and person. I cannot even with the comparison to HRC. People who were “never Hillary” were not that way because of her record and accomplishments. They were that way to stick it to establishment and/or because they are misogynists.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 1, 2020 16:39:19 GMT -6
I don't equate Bernie and Yang, as individuals or with policy. But the demographics of their bases are oddly quite similar. At least around here they are. It might be regional. This really says it all
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Post by punker1212 on Feb 1, 2020 16:39:25 GMT -6
Thank you to jaygee and others for extending me some grace and trying to help me understand your perspectives. What a weird place to be. In the beginning of this race I was just so excited to see such a diverse and qualified field but it’s shaking out so strangely. I personally expected Bernie to throw his endorsement behind someone early on and not even enter the race. I put a lot of personal pressure on myself to make the “right” choice in the primary to get Trump out of office. The stakes are just too high, especially for marginalized communities. This is one thing in my power and I don’t want to be selfish about it. On one hand, guys, Bernie is killing it in a lot of swing states, with the Latinx community, with young voters. On the other, more and more I am hearing moderates come out a hard no on him. So I’m trying to crystal ball this. Will the support Bernie has be enough to take out Trump in a general? He doesn’t poll well with the olds. I had assumed that the majority of registered Dems would vote for him in a general just to keep Trump out but the more I listen the less I’m sure of that. Trying to be pragmatic is a weird ethics space. Like I’ve been thinking a lot about Klobuchar lately and younger me is going WTF pretty hard. But for me, this can’t just be about ME and what I want. It’s about voting for and protecting the vulnerable, the environment, my kids. And hands down that means getting Trump the eff out. I worry about Biden’s electability. During the Senate trial they hit the Ukraine/Biden “Scandal” over and over- that will definitely be an election trail topic for the GOP and they will plant the seed of misinformation everywhere until it takes hold. I feel like I got a nice 8 year reprieve when Obama was in office and I’m paying for it hard now! Anyway. Will commence making my Polish granny’s yummy cabbage rolls.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 1, 2020 16:44:20 GMT -6
punker1212What time is dinner? Cuz that sounds 😋 yum
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Post by coconutbacon on Feb 1, 2020 17:34:05 GMT -6
I understand the implications of 4 more years and I’m terrified at the damage he can do. But what I’m saying is you (royal) need to see the other side as well. If all we do as Dems is try to shame people into voting blue no matter who we’re just as bad as the gop. This isn’t coming from a place of shame for me at all and I don’t ever want it to seem that way. In my life I always try to meet people where they are and see their perspective. That’s why I empathize with Trump voters though I vehemently disagree with them. This is coming from empathy and confusion. I empathize because in 2016 it took me a long time to come around to voting for Clinton, whom I strongly disliked, whose record I took great issue with. A lot of listening and reflecting but I got there and was more than happy to cast my vote for her, against Trump, when the time came. The confusion comes from people who really don’t see The similarities between Never Bernie and Never Hillary. I hear his shortcomings. All of our candidates have got short comings. Individually they weigh differently to different voters and I get that. I’m trying to see where people are coming from because what I see is these are similar situations and denying that is myopic. I actually don’t necessarily see a huge difference between the Never Bernie and Never Hillary camps, AND, I completely agree with jaygee about not voting “blue no matter who,” particularly when in a non-swing state in order to send a message to the DNC. I know many people like to vilify Stein voters or no votes, and certainly, some of those decisions were rooted in misogyny. But, there were also many folks who were taking a principled stance, and wanted the DNC to wake the f up. (Like, hello— the large amount of black voters who did not come out to cast a ballot for HRC, which should have served as a wake-up call to not take that voting block for granted, and yet here we are again.) I guess what I am saying is that an educated 3rd party, write-in or non-vote is always a valid option. And yes, the stakes are high (certainly higher in 2020 than people realized in 2016), and I trust that people who may exercise this option are doing so after deep consideration. (Maybe not all folks, but certainly many.)
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Post by punker1212 on Feb 1, 2020 18:21:18 GMT -6
punker1212What time is dinner? Cuz that sounds 😋 yum Never as good as grandma’s! I make it the way she says every time and still. “There’s no recipe! I just make it. It’s nothing special”. Sure Gran. Sure.
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Post by catspajamas on Feb 1, 2020 20:22:16 GMT -6
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Post by coconutbacon on Feb 1, 2020 20:38:20 GMT -6
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Feb 1, 2020 23:32:51 GMT -6
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pearbear
Amethyst
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Post by pearbear on Feb 2, 2020 5:28:09 GMT -6
I’m just coming off from reading some of the politics stuff on GD and I’m feeling so tired. To me, hearing people say they won’t vote for X democratic candidate (I currently exclude Tulsi and Bloomberg in m head because they are polling for shit, but things could change I guess) because they don’t like them is very akin to Sanders supporters who went third party in 2016. Why are Dems sitting around saying their number one goal is to vote out Trump and then at the same time ritualistically badmouthing the candidates? Being Never-fill-in-the-blank-dem doesn’t help us. Painting Sanders akin to Trump doesn’t help get Trump out of office considering his polling numbers. So much is at stake here. Support your candidate and by all means feel free to criticize the others, but keep your eyes on the prize. I’m just catching up here, but with zero prompting on my part this weekend MH said what I’ve been fearing - he’d vote for any of the dem candidates except Sanders. I’ve said it a bunch, but H is a very economically moderate to conservative. He views Bernie as not actually being a dem (accurate, IMO) and thinks he’d be worse for the economy than if Trump stayed in office. I don’t like it, but I also get it.
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pearbear
Amethyst
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Post by pearbear on Feb 2, 2020 5:31:06 GMT -6
I mean yes, absolutely. Everyone gets to cast or not cast their vote as they deem. No one owns another persons vote. BUT how is this different than the Never Hillary crowd? How does this privilege support marginalized populations being very seriously hurt by our current administration, in refusing to suck it up and vote against Trump, if not for the nominee? RTA and on top of that, these same voters really don’t get to rally about unifying the party or play the blame game about who cost whom the 2020 election. Because Senator Bernard Sanders may also seriously hurt marginalized people. His record, his behavior, his associations, and his own words do not convince me that he is here for women or POC. My never Bernie stance is based on him as a candidate and person. I cannot even with the comparison to HRC. People who were “never Hillary” were not that way because of her record and accomplishments. They were that way to stick it to establishment and/or because they are misogynists. Preach! You always say what I’m thinking better than I can.
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Post by cakewench on Feb 2, 2020 10:18:30 GMT -6
Warren campaign offering caucus night child care:
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byjove
Ruby
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Post by byjove on Feb 2, 2020 10:25:25 GMT -6
Warren campaign offering caucus night child care: This is amazing.
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Post by cakewench on Feb 2, 2020 17:46:01 GMT -6
Yang hints at possible pardon for trump.
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Feb 2, 2020 17:50:39 GMT -6
Yang hints at possible pardon for trump. WTF
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Post by PandaWatch on Feb 2, 2020 18:34:14 GMT -6
Is Yang a Russian spoiler? WHAT IS HAPPENING??
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