jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Dec 11, 2019 9:37:14 GMT -6
While some of Bernies policies are fantastic, I guess his whole yelling to get my point across thing is super offputting to me. Plus he is a lot of talk and not a lot of action.
Lol! That’s basically how I am. We aren’t yelling that’s just how we talk ask my husband, poor guy. Oh I'm loud.
Theres an earlier convo somewhere about how I'm loud and my bff is pretty soft spoken so we're a treat to be out with. But to me it doesnt seem just loud talking. I dunno I cant explain it.
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Post by punker1212 on Dec 11, 2019 9:38:50 GMT -6
Regarding free college and raising the minimum wage:
I think prioritizing a significant increase in the minimum wage is VERY important and would have immediate tangible effects for low income workers everywhere, so I think that’s a very pragmatic and positive approach to addressing so many struggles for the country.
In terms of free college, I think there are just different philosophies. My background is nursing and education (have taught nursing) and I am just BURNT OUT by the impact of unbridled capitalism turning the very structure of our country’s public services into a for profit business model. That is the fundamental issue for me. So sure it would be nice if college were more affordable, but I believe a long term solution is changing the structure. Making it publicly funded makes it an option for everyone and promotes the value that public services are not for sale.
Education, healthcare, public safety... to me, I would say these are all public services. Not commodity goods.
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Post by punker1212 on Dec 11, 2019 9:47:22 GMT -6
Here's a question:
Why don't people think Bernie has accomplished anything? I see him more as a quiet orchestrator and think he has well earned his nickname The Amendment King. From my (admittedly biased) view he almost wrote the entire democratic platform for 2020?
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Post by cakewench on Dec 11, 2019 9:51:48 GMT -6
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Post by punker1212 on Dec 11, 2019 9:58:17 GMT -6
I figured I'd lean in, and make it easier for the regulars to remember me. |
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Dec 11, 2019 10:32:44 GMT -6
LOL love the new avatar
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Dec 11, 2019 10:34:36 GMT -6
Here's a question: Why don't people think Bernie has accomplished anything? I see him more as a quiet orchestrator and think he has well earned his nickname The Amendment King. From my (admittedly biased) view he almost wrote the entire democratic platform for 2020? Hello!! I will +! everything @blurnette said. That is basically my story as well. I feel like like now I've paid closer attention, doesn't he have a tendency to take good ideas other people have (especially women) and then call them his own? |
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starbuck
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Post by starbuck on Dec 11, 2019 10:47:16 GMT -6
It is nice to see another viewpoint welcomed. I am probably the outlier on this board; in the world, I'm seen as a moderate Democrat, but here I think I'm seen as slightly to the right of Genghis Khan :-) So, this is my opinion. But as the other moderate in the room, I've always felt free to express myself and engage in friendly discussion and debate. You've gotten some pushback on a few things before (nothing major or OTT, IMO), but I don't think that "unwelcoming" of other viewpoints is a fair assessment of this space. Unless someone was in here pushing Trump and his ilk, I feel like it's pretty open. |
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Dec 11, 2019 11:17:58 GMT -6
I’ll just +1 to everything Rebel said. I will say that in the 2016 election I was initially glad he ran. I liked how he pushed the dem party as a whole more to the left. And he did engage new voters. My uncle is 65 years old and had never been politically active before and fell in love with Bernie. He’s now hard core dem and Bernie is his favorite but he will vote for the nominee. Anyways, like I said initially I liked that he was in the race but it really bugged me that he stayed in too long and didn’t support Hillary as much as he should have (should have been how Hillary supported Obama in 2008). Then since 2016 I have learned a lot about him that I just don’t care for. He’s kind of a grifter. And I know he’s a grifter with better motives than T, but still. I like some of his ideas but frankly a lot seem impractical. And he doesn’t have the best track record of getting things done. Also, not to be an ageist but I am concerned about his age and health. I don’t know that he’s fit for office and that’s a concern for me. Oh the health thing! I get that. I was grocery shopping when I learned of the heart attack. I was a hot mess. I actually wanted him to drop out because losing Bernie is like losing my father figurelol. Someone said on twitter right after his heart attack and I still agree with this that if he was my family member I would tell him to stop campaigning and focus on his health. It’s not worth killing himself over. |
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Post by bunnyfungo on Dec 11, 2019 11:23:30 GMT -6
Yessssssss. Addressing gaps in early childhood education will do FAR more to improve our society and level the playing field than free college will. I had to go down to the courthouse yesterday to take care of a ticket (expired car registration, I was an idiot and forgot and got pulled over lol). Anyways, there was a mom there with her little boy. We chatted a bit, her little boy was literally climbing all over me and playing. He turns 3 in a few days. At some point she said something about having him all the time (so he wasn’t in any kind of preschool). The difference between him and my 3.5 year old was staggering. At least a year’s difference in development. Maybe more. My 3yo has been in preschool since she was 1. We have to make early childhood education available to all. This is one of the “easiest” ways to work towards setting up everyone for success, regardless of SES, race, etc. Bernie has seen this firsthand when he taught with HeadStart. And while he does support ECE programs, he instead chooses to mainly focus on “free college”. It’s sexier. I would hope that if Bernie were elected, ECE would take priority. But it doesn’t in his campaigning, so I’m doubtful it would if he was president. ECE has my heart too. But, here comes my idealism issue. From what I’ve read (admittedly not a ton) regarding Warren’s plan for this is basically Headstart for all. Which is okay, but based on how Headstart is implemented currently, at least in my area, it’s not actually that high quality. I am of the opinion that if we are going to put forth the effort and cost of universal ECE (which we should! We must! There is such a need) we should raise the bar and make it evidence based, high quality for everyone. Otherwise you’ll still have families that can afford to do higher quality private schools doing that while the rest of us get second rate. I hope that doesn’t offend anyone who loves Headstart. My exposure to it as a community nurse has been very disappointing. Meanwhile my kids went to a very high quality co-op that was phenomenal with brilliant educators who had a genuine understanding of how play based education looks as well as professional degrees. This is where I get hung up on ECE for all too. On the one hand, I understand that it’s how we get kids exposed to things they might not otherwise be, help close gaps in education, identify early intervention needs, help start English language learning etc. On the other hand, I am really against the academic requirements that have been put into ECE. I know this isn’t popular on GD, but your child is absolutely not behind if they aren’t reading by kindergarten. It’s not really developmentally appropriate to be teaching 4 and 5 year olds to read. It’s just not. I’m huge into play based learning, and no, that doesn’t mean there isn’t learning. But 3 year olds don’t need worksheets and flash cards. So, I would love universal ECE but not in the format we have now or I fear that kindergarten will become even more academically rigorous because now *everyone* has been to preschool. |
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Dec 11, 2019 11:29:52 GMT -6
ECE has my heart too. But, here comes my idealism issue. From what I’ve read (admittedly not a ton) regarding Warren’s plan for this is basically Headstart for all. Which is okay, but based on how Headstart is implemented currently, at least in my area, it’s not actually that high quality. I am of the opinion that if we are going to put forth the effort and cost of universal ECE (which we should! We must! There is such a need) we should raise the bar and make it evidence based, high quality for everyone. Otherwise you’ll still have families that can afford to do higher quality private schools doing that while the rest of us get second rate. I hope that doesn’t offend anyone who loves Headstart. My exposure to it as a community nurse has been very disappointing. Meanwhile my kids went to a very high quality co-op that was phenomenal with brilliant educators who had a genuine understanding of how play based education looks as well as professional degrees. This is where I get hung up on ECE for all too. On the one hand, I understand that it’s how we get kids exposed to things they might not otherwise be, help close gaps in education, identify early intervention needs, help start English language learning etc. On the other hand, I am really against the academic requirements that have been put into ECE. I know this isn’t popular on GD, but your child is absolutely not behind if they aren’t reading by kindergarten. It’s not really developmentally appropriate to be teaching 4 and 5 year olds to read. It’s just not. I’m huge into play based learning, and no, that doesn’t mean there isn’t learning. But 3 year olds don’t need worksheets and flash cards. So, I would love universal ECE but not in the format we have now or I fear that kindergarten will become even more academically rigorous because now *everyone* has been to preschool. On that I completely agree. I want like socializing time for kids. Daycare so parents can work if they have to/want to. Basically a caring, safe place for young children where they can learn their colors, dance to music and be loved on. |
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Post by bunnyfungo on Dec 11, 2019 11:33:13 GMT -6
This is where I get hung up on ECE for all too. On the one hand, I understand that it’s how we get kids exposed to things they might not otherwise be, help close gaps in education, identify early intervention needs, help start English language learning etc. On the other hand, I am really against the academic requirements that have been put into ECE. I know this isn’t popular on GD, but your child is absolutely not behind if they aren’t reading by kindergarten. It’s not really developmentally appropriate to be teaching 4 and 5 year olds to read. It’s just not. I’m huge into play based learning, and no, that doesn’t mean there isn’t learning. But 3 year olds don’t need worksheets and flash cards. So, I would love universal ECE but not in the format we have now or I fear that kindergarten will become even more academically rigorous because now *everyone* has been to preschool. On that I completely agree. I want like socializing time for kids. Daycare so parents can work if they have to/want to. Basically a caring, safe place for young children where they can learn their colors, dance to music and be loved on. Yes. That’s where I wonder if universal childcare is the answer? Because it wouldn’t be forced into the results-based education framework. But then I feel it might still lead to gaps as someone above noted that parents that can afford it would still send their kids to private preschools. But I think it would be a step in the right direction. Especially because what would be a wonderful system in my mind is probably impossible to implement in the system already in place lol. |
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Dec 11, 2019 11:33:22 GMT -6
I will give credit to Bernie for motivating a good crop of young, diverse democrats to run for office. AOC and other freshman congress people as well as lots of local government positions have been great additions to the political landscape.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Dec 11, 2019 11:37:28 GMT -6
Regarding free college and raising the minimum wage: I think prioritizing a significant increase in the minimum wage is VERY important and would have immediate tangible effects for low income workers everywhere, so I think that’s a very pragmatic and positive approach to addressing so many struggles for the country. In terms of free college, I think there are just different philosophies. My background is nursing and education (have taught nursing) and I am just BURNT OUT by the impact of unbridled capitalism turning the very structure of our country’s public services into a for profit business model. That is the fundamental issue for me. So sure it would be nice if college were more affordable, but I believe a long term solution is changing the structure. Making it publicly funded makes it an option for everyone and promotes the value that public services are not for sale. Education, healthcare, public safety... to me, I would say these are all public services. Not commodity goods. I do agree with your last part - long term I think these things are best as public services. I think how and how fast we get there is where I prefer other plans to Bernie’s which tend to be full throttle all or nothing. Again, this is important to the conversation because it pushes public support that way. But for the leader that gets us there, I prefer someone more measured. All this to say I see the appeal, but Bernie’s not my man. |
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Dec 11, 2019 11:38:40 GMT -6
Education, healthcare, public safety... to me, I would say these are all public services. Not commodity goods. 1,000000000000% |
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Dec 11, 2019 11:41:55 GMT -6
This is where I get hung up on ECE for all too. On the one hand, I understand that it’s how we get kids exposed to things they might not otherwise be, help close gaps in education, identify early intervention needs, help start English language learning etc. On the other hand, I am really against the academic requirements that have been put into ECE. I know this isn’t popular on GD, but your child is absolutely not behind if they aren’t reading by kindergarten. It’s not really developmentally appropriate to be teaching 4 and 5 year olds to read. It’s just not. I’m huge into play based learning, and no, that doesn’t mean there isn’t learning. But 3 year olds don’t need worksheets and flash cards. So, I would love universal ECE but not in the format we have now or I fear that kindergarten will become even more academically rigorous because now *everyone* has been to preschool. On that I completely agree. I want like socializing time for kids. Daycare so parents can work if they have to/want to. Basically a caring, safe place for young children where they can learn their colors, dance to music and be loved on. And get 2 balanced meals a day, if needed |
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Dec 11, 2019 11:42:40 GMT -6
It is nice to see another viewpoint welcomed. I am probably the outlier on this board; in the world, I'm seen as a moderate Democrat, but here I think I'm seen as slightly to the right of Genghis Khan :-) So, this is my opinion. But as the other moderate in the room, I've always felt free to express myself and engage in friendly discussion and debate. You've gotten some pushback on a few things before (nothing major or OTT, IMO), but I don't think that "unwelcoming" of other viewpoints is a fair assessment of this space. Unless someone was in here pushing Trump and his ilk, I feel like it's pretty open. there was that one guy, but we didn't flip out on him very often and he got bored |
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Dec 11, 2019 11:43:03 GMT -6
On that I completely agree. I want like socializing time for kids. Daycare so parents can work if they have to/want to. Basically a caring, safe place for young children where they can learn their colors, dance to music and be loved on. And get 2 balanced meals a day, if needed Yes! Feed all the kids. |
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starbuck
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Post by starbuck on Dec 11, 2019 11:44:25 GMT -6
So, this is my opinion. But as the other moderate in the room, I've always felt free to express myself and engage in friendly discussion and debate. You've gotten some pushback on a few things before (nothing major or OTT, IMO), but I don't think that "unwelcoming" of other viewpoints is a fair assessment of this space. Unless someone was in here pushing Trump and his ilk, I feel like it's pretty open. there was that one guy, but we didn't flip out on him very often and he got bored lol so Trump lovers and trolls (insert Venn diagram showing massive overlap here), beware. |
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Dec 11, 2019 11:49:39 GMT -6
I have talked about this before but when I taught in a very, very poor area the philosophy was "Grow them at school." Lots of parents working 2 and 3 jobs, 100% FARM qualified, etc. Universal pre k starting at age 3. And the curriculum was definitely age appropriate. Colors, shapes, cooperative play, rhythm and movement, even table manners. It ensure that the kids were safe, supervised, warm and fed for 7 hours a day AND it leveled the playing field with the rest of the county when those kids came to kindergarten.
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Dec 11, 2019 11:58:29 GMT -6
I'm just gonna let jaygee, speak for me today. |
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Post by greykitty on Dec 11, 2019 13:16:27 GMT -6
starbuck, I was being slightly tongue in cheek. That said, like almost all internet groups, I think there is a drift toward an echo chamber. And, I think in general, this particular forum reflects the farther left of the party, or of engaged primary voters. I do think it's interesting that based on most polls, we should be seeing a lot of supporters of both Biden and Sanders in a generally Democratic forum, but I think we tend to see here, currently, Castro, maybe Warren (although I haven't seen much on her here lately) and it seems a lot of posters are still undecided after Harris' withdrawal. But lurkers may have a million different opinions we just haven't seen yet. This is probably one of the more turbulent primary seasons I've seen and we haven't even really started yet, and the party isn't known for its cohesiveness historically. I do wonder if we're at a inflection point as well between the two 'sides' of the party.
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roloma
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Post by roloma on Dec 11, 2019 13:45:04 GMT -6
I caucused for Bernie in 2016 because I place myself pretty far left and he was a much more left option than Hillary, not that I didn't VERY happily vote for Hillary because I certainly did. I mostly went his direction to make sure he stayed viable, which is turns out he didn't need because he was very strongly supported at my caucus. My H is still a pretty firm Bernie supporter. He is not my guy this time around, mostly for the reasons already mentioned. I greatly appreciate his pushing the party left and helping get new blood in on down ballots all across the country though!
I am still an undecided caucus goer. I was debating between Kamala and Liz before Kamala dropped out. My mom, a hug Liz supporter, was shocked when I said I was still undecided and didn't instantly go Liz as a definite. I will probably remain undecided until the night of the caucus. I would like to caucus for Castro or Booker because I am pretty sure Liz will have enough support. In our new neighborhood I think I might be the lone Castro person, however, which might mean I have to make a game time decision.
All of that blather to say that I am no longer a Bernie supporter this election cycle, I am fully undecided, but I would definitely be happy to vote for Bernie if he ended up the nominee.
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Post by flippinchica on Dec 11, 2019 15:08:08 GMT -6
I agree bunnyfungo, my coworker has a kid in prek 4 through the public school and she has a bunch of homework including over Thanksgiving break! So not age appropriate. |
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Post by greykitty on Dec 11, 2019 16:00:25 GMT -6
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elle
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Post by elle on Dec 11, 2019 16:05:19 GMT -6
Yeah, I want to clarify when I mention early childhood education I in no way mean ridiculous amounts of academics pushed onto 2-4 year olds, I mean organized and supervised learning through play type stuff.
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elle
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Post by elle on Dec 11, 2019 16:06:08 GMT -6
😬 You and I have different definitions of adorable. 😂 |
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Dec 11, 2019 16:07:09 GMT -6
They definitely got the scary crazy hair right. |
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Post by punker1212 on Dec 11, 2019 16:09:42 GMT -6
Here's a question: Why don't people think Bernie has accomplished anything? I see him more as a quiet orchestrator and think he has well earned his nickname The Amendment King. From my (admittedly biased) view he almost wrote the entire democratic platform for 2020? Hello!! I will +! everything @blurnette said. That is basically my story as well. I feel like like now I've paid closer attention, doesn't he have a tendency to take good ideas other people have (especially women) and then call them his own? This is interesting. I haven’t heard/noticed this, it’s a thing? Any examples? |
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Post by punker1212 on Dec 11, 2019 16:18:59 GMT -6
Adorable but hard pass on the $80 bear... sorry Bernie. I’m a proletariat. |
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