2020 Candidate Speculation

[elle]

Another ditto to what jaygee and Rebel said and I'll add that I really don't like that he dismisses every other issue as being less important than free college and raising the minimum wage. As if those two things will cure all our society's ills. Those are absolutely important, but neither will correct the racial inequality and sexism that's systemic among our institutions. For me, I'd prefer a focus on early childhood education; let's try to level the playing field from the jump rather than once the inequalities have taken hold. Free college really only helps the middle class, it's useless to the exceptionally bright students trapped in poverty, how are they to afford free housing and food? They're still going to be left behind their peers.

I also consider myself an independent, I've never registered with a party although I've pretty much voted with the Dems my entire voting career. I do agree with many of his ideas and used to listen to him on Thom Hartman back in the day of Air America, so it saddens me in many respects that he's ushered in the era of purity tests. We absolutely should be aiming high and moving the mainstream party to the left, but perfection is absolutely the enemy of the good. And we can't afford to sacrifice the vulnerable amongst us at the altar of perfection.

[elle]

And welcome punker1212! It's great to have new people join in.

[Rebel]

Dec 10, 2019 20:18:19 GMT -6 elle said:

Another ditto to what jaygee and Rebel said and I'll add that I really don't like that he dismisses every other issue as being less important than free college and raising the minimum wage. As if those two things will cure all our society's ills. Those are absolutely important, but neither will correct the racial inequality and sexism that's systemic among our institutions. For me, I'd prefer a focus on early childhood education; let's try to level the playing field from the jump rather than once the inequalities have taken hold. Free college really only helps the middle class, it's useless to the exceptionally bright students trapped in poverty, how are they to afford free housing and food? They're still going to be left behind their peers.

I also consider myself an independent, I've never registered with a party although I've pretty much voted with the Dems my entire voting career. I do agree with many of his ideas and used to listen to him on Thom Hartman back in the day of Air America, so it saddens me in many respects that he's ushered in the era of purity tests. We absolutely should be aiming high and moving the mainstream party to the left, but perfection is absolutely the enemy of the good. And we can't afford to sacrifice the vulnerable amongst us at the altar of perfection.

Yessssssss. Addressing gaps in early childhood education will do FAR more to improve our society and level the playing field than free college will.

I had to go down to the courthouse yesterday to take care of a ticket (expired car registration, I was an idiot and forgot and got pulled over lol). Anyways, there was a mom there with her little boy. We chatted a bit, her little boy was literally climbing all over me and playing. He turns 3 in a few days. At some point she said something about having him all the time (so he wasn’t in any kind of preschool).

The difference between him and my 3.5 year old was staggering. At least a year’s difference in development. Maybe more. My 3yo has been in preschool since she was 1.

We have to make early childhood education available to all. This is one of the “easiest” ways to work towards setting up everyone for success, regardless of SES, race, etc.

Bernie has seen this firsthand when he taught with HeadStart. And while he does support ECE programs, he instead chooses to mainly focus on “free college”. It’s sexier.

I would hope that if Bernie were elected, ECE would take priority. But it doesn’t in his campaigning, so I’m doubtful it would if he was president.

[jaygee]

The free college thing is something I’ve just recently come around on and it’s wasn’t until my girl Kamala (pour one out) put her focus on early childhood education instead of college (she did have a loan forgiveness plan for college but it was much more limited and focused on POC) that I started thinking critically about it. Don’t get me wrong, college affordability is a huge issue and we should work on that. But access to early education and quality, equal K-12 education is more important to me right now. I’d rather see loan forgiveness up to a certain income level and then some reworking of the system to drive affordability (again focusing on lower income brackets and groups that have had historically less access to higher ed) than free college for everyone. Also, I really think we need to fix what we have before putting more money in the system. Like actually give the loan forgiveness we’ve promised that is now getting denied.

Sorry, I’m rambling, but the free college thing is kind of like nails on a chalkboard for me now.

[Rebel]

punker1212- also, welcome I am also new, and just started occasionally posting after lurking for forever.

Politics is a serious passion of mine and it is my favorite thing to chat about it with like minded people. Especially if we have minor disagreements or differences of opinions- I learn so much from these conversations!!!

I hope you stick around and forgive my lack of Bernie love. He’s not bad, just not my favorite. And I look forward to see what else you have to say about him and the other candidates as the primary continues- always open to learning more about every candidate (well except Trump. I feel like we’ve see TOO much of him lol)

[CurlieWhirlie]

Hey punker1212, nice to have new people! I'm impressed with how well you're taking these challenges to your favorite on your "first day" here.

I'll agree with the criticisms leveled against Bernie here, with the same caveat that I will vote for him happily if he is the nominee. Kamala was my fave, but now she's out I'm giving my support to Castro so we can keep hearing from him while we can. I like to see the diversity in the field, and I like his focus on equal representation, esp. with regard to the order of the primary states.

[Wtfshouldmynamebe]

punker1212 hi! I am also new, but love the politics because of what I have experienced through work and life.

As far as Bernie, I agree with DC in that I will vote for him. My issue is his record and him being erratic.

[dc2london]

I, for one, am glad to have a pro Bernie voice in the conversation. A lot of what I hear about him is filtered through hyper-critical lenses.

[dc2london]

Well Yang got that last poll and will be on the debate stage.
Tulsi has 40 hours to get one more poll.

[athn64]

Dec 11, 2019 7:08:02 GMT -6 dc2london said:

Well Yang got that last poll and will be on the debate stage.
Tulsi has 40 hours to get one more poll.

FX she doesn't cut it

[dc2london]

Dec 11, 2019 7:36:04 GMT -6 athn64 said:

Dec 11, 2019 7:08:02 GMT -6 dc2london said:

Well Yang got that last poll and will be on the debate stage.
Tulsi has 40 hours to get one more poll.

FX she doesn't cut it

She already said she won't go even if she qualifies

😒🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[dc2london]

Would be great poetic justice for her not to qualify since Kamala did

[blurnette989]

I will also add that I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary, and was extremely supportive. For me, although his policies more frequently align with my own, I do feel that he had his shot, and he did do well enough that if it was going to happen, it would have. He just didn't have enough to beat out Hilary. So for me, I think he brings great dialogue to the table, and thankfully pulls things a bit left because our center as a country has been moving further right for over a decade, but getting Trump out of office is more important.

I also have been disappointed by his tone deafness on many issues. I guess I disagree that he learns and grows, maybe on somethings, but I do believe he truly believes in the greatness of himself. And that kind of ego is a little offputting for me. I am not convinced he would have beat Trump either. I don't htink it was as clear cut as some Bernie supporters think it would have been.

[punker1212]

Dec 10, 2019 19:55:42 GMT -6 jaygee said:

I’ll just +1 to everything Rebel said.

I will say that in the 2016 election I was initially glad he ran. I liked how he pushed the dem party as a whole more to the left. And he did engage new voters. My uncle is 65 years old and had never been politically active before and fell in love with Bernie. He’s now hard core dem and Bernie is his favorite but he will vote for the nominee.

Anyways, like I said initially I liked that he was in the race but it really bugged me that he stayed in too long and didn’t support Hillary as much as he should have (should have been how Hillary supported Obama in 2008).

Then since 2016 I have learned a lot about him that I just don’t care for. He’s kind of a grifter. And I know he’s a grifter with better motives than T, but still.

I like some of his ideas but frankly a lot seem impractical. And he doesn’t have the best track record of getting things done. Also, not to be an ageist but I am concerned about his age and health. I don’t know that he’s fit for office and that’s a concern for me.

Oh the health thing! I get that. I was grocery shopping when I learned of the heart attack. I was a hot mess. I actually wanted him to drop out because losing Bernie is like losing my father figurelol.

[punker1212]

Dec 10, 2019 19:55:50 GMT -6 Ls2012 said:

Hi, punker1212, and welcome!

*waves from the SW corner of mitten*

As for Bernie, I sit on Rebel's bench. Not that I wouldn't vote for him, but I think there are better options.

What’s up! I just left that corner!

[punker1212]

Dec 10, 2019 20:18:19 GMT -6 elle said:

Another ditto to what jaygee and Rebel said and I'll add that I really don't like that he dismisses every other issue as being less important than free college and raising the minimum wage. As if those two things will cure all our society's ills. Those are absolutely important, but neither will correct the racial inequality and sexism that's systemic among our institutions. For me, I'd prefer a focus on early childhood education; let's try to level the playing field from the jump rather than once the inequalities have taken hold. Free college really only helps the middle class, it's useless to the exceptionally bright students trapped in poverty, how are they to afford free housing and food? They're still going to be left behind their peers.

I also consider myself an independent, I've never registered with a party although I've pretty much voted with the Dems my entire voting career. I do agree with many of his ideas and used to listen to him on Thom Hartman back in the day of Air America, so it saddens me in many respects that he's ushered in the era of purity tests. We absolutely should be aiming high and moving the mainstream party to the left, but perfection is absolutely the enemy of the good. And we can't afford to sacrifice the vulnerable amongst us at the altar of perfection.

Your last sentence is very meaningful! A good reminder for idealists like myself.

[starbuck]

Dec 11, 2019 7:36:44 GMT -6 dc2london said:

Dec 11, 2019 7:36:04 GMT -6 athn64 said:

FX she doesn't cut it

She already said she won't go even if she qualifies

😒🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Sure, Jan. Just like last time.

[punker1212]

Dec 11, 2019 7:08:02 GMT -6 dc2london said:

Well Yang got that last poll and will be on the debate stage.
Tulsi has 40 hours to get one more poll.

I genuinely don’t get how Yang is still around? I mean, he’s fine, but super unqualified, yet he still makes it every time! I also was quite put off by his statement in the last debate regarding it’s better for kids to have a SAHP. Even though I’m essentially a SAHP.

[dc2london]

Dec 11, 2019 8:03:11 GMT -6 punker1212 said:

Dec 11, 2019 7:08:02 GMT -6 dc2london said:

Well Yang got that last poll and will be on the debate stage.
Tulsi has 40 hours to get one more poll.

I genuinely don’t get how Yang is still around? I mean, he’s fine, but super unqualified, yet he still makes it every time! I also was quite put off by his statement in the last debate regarding it’s better for kids to have a SAHP. Even though I’m essentially a SAHP.

My thinking is that a lot of white 20 year olds think he is going to give them free money.
But really, I don't know.

[punker1212]

Dec 10, 2019 20:31:43 GMT -6 Rebel said:

Dec 10, 2019 20:18:19 GMT -6 elle said:

Another ditto to what jaygee and Rebel said and I'll add that I really don't like that he dismisses every other issue as being less important than free college and raising the minimum wage. As if those two things will cure all our society's ills. Those are absolutely important, but neither will correct the racial inequality and sexism that's systemic among our institutions. For me, I'd prefer a focus on early childhood education; let's try to level the playing field from the jump rather than once the inequalities have taken hold. Free college really only helps the middle class, it's useless to the exceptionally bright students trapped in poverty, how are they to afford free housing and food? They're still going to be left behind their peers.

I also consider myself an independent, I've never registered with a party although I've pretty much voted with the Dems my entire voting career. I do agree with many of his ideas and used to listen to him on Thom Hartman back in the day of Air America, so it saddens me in many respects that he's ushered in the era of purity tests. We absolutely should be aiming high and moving the mainstream party to the left, but perfection is absolutely the enemy of the good. And we can't afford to sacrifice the vulnerable amongst us at the altar of perfection.

Yessssssss. Addressing gaps in early childhood education will do FAR more to improve our society and level the playing field than free college will.

I had to go down to the courthouse yesterday to take care of a ticket (expired car registration, I was an idiot and forgot and got pulled over lol). Anyways, there was a mom there with her little boy. We chatted a bit, her little boy was literally climbing all over me and playing. He turns 3 in a few days. At some point she said something about having him all the time (so he wasn’t in any kind of preschool).

The difference between him and my 3.5 year old was staggering. At least a year’s difference in development. Maybe more. My 3yo has been in preschool since she was 1.

We have to make early childhood education available to all. This is one of the “easiest” ways to work towards setting up everyone for success, regardless of SES, race, etc.

Bernie has seen this firsthand when he taught with HeadStart. And while he does support ECE programs, he instead chooses to mainly focus on “free college”. It’s sexier.

I would hope that if Bernie were elected, ECE would take priority. But it doesn’t in his campaigning, so I’m doubtful it would if he was president.

ECE has my heart too. But, here comes my idealism issue. From what I’ve read (admittedly not a ton) regarding Warren’s plan for this is basically Headstart for all. Which is okay, but based on how Headstart is implemented currently, at least in my area, it’s not actually that high quality. I am of the opinion that if we are going to put forth the effort and cost of universal ECE (which we should! We must! There is such a need) we should raise the bar and make it evidence based, high quality for everyone. Otherwise you’ll still have families that can afford to do higher quality private schools doing that while the rest of us get second rate.

I hope that doesn’t offend anyone who loves Headstart. My exposure to it as a community nurse has been very disappointing. Meanwhile my kids went to a very high quality co-op that was phenomenal with brilliant educators who had a genuine understanding of how play based education looks as well as professional degrees.

[dc2london]

Dec 11, 2019 7:59:09 GMT -6 punker1212 said:

Dec 10, 2019 19:55:42 GMT -6 jaygee said:

I’ll just +1 to everything Rebel said.

I will say that in the 2016 election I was initially glad he ran. I liked how he pushed the dem party as a whole more to the left. And he did engage new voters. My uncle is 65 years old and had never been politically active before and fell in love with Bernie. He’s now hard core dem and Bernie is his favorite but he will vote for the nominee.

Anyways, like I said initially I liked that he was in the race but it really bugged me that he stayed in too long and didn’t support Hillary as much as he should have (should have been how Hillary supported Obama in 2008).

Then since 2016 I have learned a lot about him that I just don’t care for. He’s kind of a grifter. And I know he’s a grifter with better motives than T, but still.

I like some of his ideas but frankly a lot seem impractical. And he doesn’t have the best track record of getting things done. Also, not to be an ageist but I am concerned about his age and health. I don’t know that he’s fit for office and that’s a concern for me.

Oh the health thing! I get that. I was grocery shopping when I learned of the heart attack. I was a hot mess. I actually wanted him to drop out because losing Bernie is like losing my father figurelol.

He sure has bounced back!
I actually think he and his team handled that about as well as anyone could.

[punker1212]

Dec 11, 2019 8:08:51 GMT -6 dc2london said:

Dec 11, 2019 7:59:09 GMT -6 punker1212 said:

Oh the health thing! I get that. I was grocery shopping when I learned of the heart attack. I was a hot mess. I actually wanted him to drop out because losing Bernie is like losing my father figurelol.

He sure has bounced back!
I actually think he and his team handled that about as well as anyone could.

I agree! And now that the initial shock has worn I’m glad he hasn’t dropped out.

[punker1212]

Dec 10, 2019 23:18:27 GMT -6 CurlieWhirlie said:

Hey punker1212, nice to have new people! I'm impressed with how well you're taking these challenges to your favorite on your "first day" here.

I'll agree with the criticisms leveled against Bernie here, with the same caveat that I will vote for him happily if he is the nominee. Kamala was my fave, but now she's out I'm giving my support to Castro so we can keep hearing from him while we can. I like to see the diversity in the field, and I like his focus on equal representation, esp. with regard to the order of the primary states.

Thanks! I have pretty thick skin when it comes to Bernie after all these years

[dc2london]

Dec 11, 2019 8:08:51 GMT -6 dc2london said:

Dec 11, 2019 7:59:09 GMT -6 punker1212 said:

Oh the health thing! I get that. I was grocery shopping when I learned of the heart attack. I was a hot mess. I actually wanted him to drop out because losing Bernie is like losing my father figurelol.

He sure has bounced back!
I actually think he and his team handled that about as well as anyone could.

A lot of us in here were worried he was going to kill himself campaigning

[punker1212]

Dec 11, 2019 8:20:54 GMT -6 dc2london said:

Dec 11, 2019 8:08:51 GMT -6 dc2london said:

He sure has bounced back!
I actually think he and his team handled that about as well as anyone could.

A lot of us in here were worried he was going to kill himself campaigning

He sure pushes the limit!

[punker1212]

My favorite Bernie Sanders meme is the one that says Bernie is like the guy in the movies that keeps telling people the world is ending but no one believes him because he keeps dropping his papers. Spot on.

[greykitty]

It is nice to see another viewpoint welcomed. I am probably the outlier on this board; in the world, I'm seen as a moderate Democrat, but here I think I'm seen as slightly to the right of Genghis Khan :-)

What I like about Bernie is that he's steadfast in a lot of ways - especially with regard to Medicare, he's been forthright in saying taxes will go up and the transition will be painful for many, if not all. Otherwise, I kind of like him most when he stays in the Senate and proposes ideas that get discussed and may end up influencing actual passed bills, if not exactly the same as his original vision. I've got no major problems with his health or age - assuming he picks a decent VP candidate.

Warren has lost me with her financing, or lack of financing, plans for M4A, and waffling when her initial plan was questioned - for someone who bet it all on having plans for everything, I wasn't impressed. Again, I think she's done great work in the Senate, and I personally would like her to stay there.

I've said before the 2020 nominees have been the least exciting, to me, in years. I wish Biden were 10-15 years younger but all in all I'm more aligned with his proposals than the more leftist candidates. I wish Booker was gaining traction. I think I'd like to see a Biden/Booker ticket. I still like an awful lot of Pete's ideas, and hope to see more of him in the future.

Bloomberg - not a fan, but I'll give him credit for his financial support of Moms Demand Action - and am not counting him out at this point. Deval should drop out; Castro - I'm sorry, I keep getting the feeling of sour grapes from him regarding his campaign and that kind of overrides a lot of his policy statements for me - I know he's tried to clarify his statements in his meeting in IA yesterday. I'll have to listen to him with a more open mind, but right now he's very low on my list.

Re free college for all - not a fan of the Sanders approach. I do like a more incremental approach.

I do agree that ECE would no doubt have a much better long term effect, but I admit I'm tired of non-funded mandates from the federal level, and the way education is funded now, we're very close to tax payers simply not being able to afford more in most states I want to see funding proposals that can actually be implemented. And, yes, quality ECE is not cheap at all.

And, I also think most voters really really like to control their own school districts - not saying it's always right or beneficial, but just think about how even modest redrawing of boundary lines tends to bring out the voters en masse with very definitive opinions.

Honestly, I want to see a candidate who is for reinstating the SALT deduction. It doesn't affect me at my income and tiny little house, but it's an adverse effect on homeowners in my state and others, and thus on our own state taxing situation. I know the House is taking a shot at it, ah, yesterday, but I don't think it'll pass unless contained in a bigger tax reform bill.

[jkjacq]

While some of Bernies policies are fantastic, I guess his whole yelling to get my point across thing is super offputting to me.  Plus he is a lot of talk and not a lot of action.

[dc2london]

This is very cool and I think it's great that Indivisible took the time to create it.

scorecard.indivisible.org/

[punker1212]

Dec 11, 2019 8:49:02 GMT -6 jkjacq said:

While some of Bernies policies are fantastic, I guess his whole yelling to get my point across thing is super offputting to me.  Plus he is a lot of talk and not a lot of action.

Lol! That’s basically how I am. We aren’t yelling that’s just how we talk ask my husband, poor guy.