2020 Candidate Speculation

[dc2london]

Mar 31, 2019 9:21:14 GMT -6 richard said:

I know my own personal biases and I 100% would have told Bernie to fuck off. I think I actually did earlier in this thread for something very similar.

To me, that's different bc Bernie ran in 2016. I'm less tolerant of "I TOLD YOU SO" than I am of, "Here are some things we need to consider to not lose to the fascist again"

[ladybrienne]

Mar 31, 2019 13:45:04 GMT -6 dc2london said:

Mar 31, 2019 9:21:14 GMT -6 richard said:

I know my own personal biases and I 100% would have told Bernie to fuck off. I think I actually did earlier in this thread for something very similar.

To me, that's different bc Bernie ran in 2016. I'm less tolerant of "I TOLD YOU SO" than I am of, "Here are some things we need to consider to not lose to the fascist again"

Lol and we have all just hit our breaking point with Bern. We crossed that bridge a very long time ago. 

[dc2london]

I feel like I started this fire so please let me just say I don't have an issue with anyone critiquing any of the candidates. What I was seeing, and was irritated by, were bad faith calls for Pete to be canceled bc of one bad take (on Twitter. Not here). I felt it was OTT and was indicative of a habit to go nuclear on a candidate the microseconds they say something problematic. The rhetoric on Twitter surrounding the quite was disproportionate to the level of problem.
He didn't eat an infant. He offered a bad take.

[dc2london]

Mar 31, 2019 10:36:05 GMT -6 miawallace said:

He said something about democrats not going to fox and brought up stats that the number one news source for most Americans is fox.
And the only guy who goes there to share Democrat viewpoints is what’s his face with the hair. From Indiana. Anyway. I thought that was true.
We like echo chambers.

Swalwell is from California 😘

[dc2london]

Mar 31, 2019 12:05:33 GMT -6 richard said:

Mar 31, 2019 11:46:46 GMT -6 ladybrienne said:

No I just remember that people thought we were like OTT a lot and that’s why they didn’t participate. When we were on the last board, TCF, we just had a thread in parenting.

I like this set up better 🤷🏻‍♀️

Well a new episode of Veep is on tonight, so I may get a little OTT. Apologies in advance.

DANIWAH!

[richard]

Mar 31, 2019 13:45:04 GMT -6 dc2london said:

Mar 31, 2019 9:21:14 GMT -6 richard said:

I know my own personal biases and I 100% would have told Bernie to fuck off. I think I actually did earlier in this thread for something very similar.

To me, that's different bc Bernie ran in 2016. I'm less tolerant of "I TOLD YOU SO" than I am of, "Here are some things we need to consider to not lose to the fascist again"

I never said Bernie didn't earn the bias against him.

Lol.

[dc2london]

Mar 31, 2019 13:57:59 GMT -6 richard said:

Mar 31, 2019 13:45:04 GMT -6 dc2london said:

To me, that's different bc Bernie ran in 2016. I'm less tolerant of "I TOLD YOU SO" than I am of, "Here are some things we need to consider to not lose to the fascist again"

I never said Bernie didn't earn the bias against him.

Lol.

My BFF was here today and said her dream ticket is Bernie/Warren. I became Oprah.

[misspatty]

Mar 31, 2019 9:14:55 GMT -6 richard said:

Shit like this is the reason we basically got banished to our own board and most of HIH won’t come here

What is this shit? I love you but this doesn’t ring true to me at all.

I know we’ve moved on but I owe you a response here. You can’t have an actual conversation with her and it’s so grating. She’s so OTT about everything that it turns into a 10,000 word sermon about every subject imaginable. It set me off that she said she was disappointed in the board like we all needed to fall in line. No thanks. She was in the weekly thread talking about how she thinks the entire GOP is being blackmailed by Russia and that’s why they’re all going along with Trump... and everyone acted like it was completely normal. I find it concerning and frankly really irritating because I generally find the criticism of this board to be unfair. So while I don’t wish her ill and think she should come back, I stand by what I said. The OTT, sky is falling stuff is exhasuting and turns people off from posting with us.

[Ls2012]

I really value @heartbot's voice. I'm sorry she's gone. I hope she comes back.

I think criticism of candidates is needed. It's how we weed through to get to "our" candidate. Part of what is bothering me is the level of critique at this stage of the game for some pretty mild infractions. I can't speak to the example that set heartbot off in the first place (I haven't read/ seen anything about it other than what's here). I think there can be a tendency to go all in on the drop of a dime. It's early early days in this election. Right now, I think it's less important to pick apart than it is to listen, makes notes, see where and if each candidate improves. We have a lot of potential in this group and a long time to go until the primary.

Go all in on the racism, the bigotry, misogyny, the ripping families apart, the gun reform (lack of), healthcare and abortion rights. Those are huge. Those should never not be noisy.

Looking through a lense of how I'd react if Bernie said it is an interesting take. I do give Pete a bit more latitude in that regard if for no other reason than he at least partially represents a disenfranchised group of voters (lgbtqia). There's a big difference in my mind between old, white, straight guy and young, white, gay guy.

I like Pete, but I'm not sold on him yet. He's making some gaffs and I hope that he works on himself and gets better. It does seem a bit heavy-handed sometimes on the Pete love, but I appreciate what I've learnes about him here. I look forward to learning more about all the candidates here.

(Sorry, I started babbling and couldn't reign it in.)

[jaygee]

miawallace one anti-racism activist I follow calls that the “love and light” crowd. Like the white woman that say to black people “your message is ok, but you’re too angry in your tone” or “if everyone could just get along we would be fine”. It intersects with the yoga zen crew.

Like no, white supremacy isn’t solved by good vibes and thinking positive thoughts.

I didn’t realize how toxic and violent it is when a POC is expressing their thoughts and feelings on a very real issues facing their community and some white person comes in and says “peace and love” until I saw it first hand. Oh boy. It’s bad.

[byjove]

Mar 31, 2019 11:50:41 GMT -6 blurnette989 said:

Well shit I missed a lot today. I was planning to come with all the articles that explicitly discuss how it was racism not economic anxiety that led people to Trump. Seems I am late.

Seriously bummed that @heartbot is gone.

Is she truly gone? 💔💔💔💔

[jaygee]

I don’t disagree with the thoughts on Russia blackmailing the GOP tho. I mean, I have yet to find a better explanation of why they won’t push back on Trump. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[miawallace]

I also think Twitter can be a great tool but I’m starting to feel like it can be a real hinderance too. The same way Nate silver made everyone think Hillary was going to win in 2016 and people like Michael Moore kept telling everyone not to trust the machine and we did. And the optimistic voices kept going ignoring that. I feel like Twitter has become a replacement for thah in a sense. I can’t explain why. But too much faith is being placed on that weird machine. Faith thah it represents everyone or that the people on it speak for everyone.
Just something to think about. Because at the end of the day I know the people coming out to vote for trump are the ones who aren’t on Twitter.

[misspatty]

Mar 31, 2019 14:26:21 GMT -6 jaygee said:

I don’t disagree with the thoughts on Russia blackmailing the GOP tho. I mean, I have yet to find a better explanation of why they won’t push back on Trump. 🤷🏻‍♀️

So you think that an entire major US political party is being blackmailed by a foreign government without anyone finding out? Every single of of those politicians and their aides and whoever else haven’t told a single person? The CIA, FBI, and NSA all have the wool pulled over their eyes? That is like... on par with 9/11 conspiracy theories to me.

[Ls2012]

Mar 31, 2019 14:35:52 GMT -6 misspatty said:

Mar 31, 2019 14:26:21 GMT -6 jaygee said:

I don’t disagree with the thoughts on Russia blackmailing the GOP tho. I mean, I have yet to find a better explanation of why they won’t push back on Trump. 🤷🏻‍♀️

So you think that an entire major US political party is being blackmailed by a foreign government without anyone finding out? Every single of of those politicians and their aides and whoever else haven’t told a single person? The CIA, FBI, and NSA all have the wool pulled over their eyes? That is like... on par with 9/11 conspiracy theories to me.

I file this under "things that make me go 'hmmmm' ". It's a thought that I know logically cannot be true. But that little seedling of doubt and paranoia has been planted and every once in a while keeps me up in the middle of the night. That's why she said it was a tin-hatty moment. We all know it's kind of nuts, but there are times when logic flies out the window and the crazy starts to make more sense. And sometimes we have to vent the crazy to stay sane.

[jaygee]

Mar 31, 2019 14:35:52 GMT -6 misspatty said:

Mar 31, 2019 14:26:21 GMT -6 jaygee said:

I don’t disagree with the thoughts on Russia blackmailing the GOP tho. I mean, I have yet to find a better explanation of why they won’t push back on Trump. 🤷🏻‍♀️

So you think that an entire major US political party is being blackmailed by a foreign government without anyone finding out? Every single of of those politicians and their aides and whoever else haven’t told a single person? The CIA, FBI, and NSA all have the wool pulled over their eyes? That is like... on par with 9/11 conspiracy theories to me.

I think there is a good chance that several key leaders in the GOP are compromised. The ones that stand out to me are sessions, Lindsey Graham and Mike Pence. McConnel I actually don’t think so because I think power alone is enough for him + his wife’s job. I also think some of the less powerful sycophants might be blackmailed. Like Matt Gertz.

I certainly don’t know but I have a hard time figuring out why they would be sticking by Trump so closely. It is eventually going to be career suicide for them, so what is keeping them so loyal? Maybe they have the same core morals as T but it seems that would have been apparent before now.

[jaygee]

For the record I didnt read the post referenced and it’s gone now, but just speaking in general on the topic - I think about it. It crosses my mind. It makes sense sometimes when so much else doesn’t.

[richard]

Mar 31, 2019 14:10:33 GMT -6 misspatty said:

Mar 31, 2019 9:14:55 GMT -6 richard said:

What is this shit? I love you but this doesn’t ring true to me at all.

I know we’ve moved on but I owe you a response here. You can’t have an actual conversation with her and it’s so grating. She’s so OTT about everything that it turns into a 10,000 word sermon about every subject imaginable. It set me off that she said she was disappointed in the board like we all needed to fall in line. No thanks. She was in the weekly thread talking about how she thinks the entire GOP is being blackmailed by Russia and that’s why they’re all going along with Trump... and everyone acted like it was completely normal. I find it concerning and frankly really irritating because I generally find the criticism of this board to be unfair. So while I don’t wish her ill and think she should come back, I stand by what I said. The OTT, sky is falling stuff is exhasuting and turns people off from posting with us.

I missed this (or maybe I assumed it was hyperbole and scrolled past) and I’d be surprised if she actually thinks that. But I can understand your reaction.

But overall I was more responding to the perception of this board. Which is apparently still some people’s opinion - I’m out of the loop it seems.

(Or maybe my introvert self just delights in being banished and I didn’t realize people cared.)

[jaygee]

Mar 31, 2019 14:31:59 GMT -6 miawallace said:

I also think Twitter can be a great tool but I’m starting to feel like it can be a real hinderance too. The same way Nate silver made everyone think Hillary was going to win in 2016 and people like Michael Moore kept telling everyone not to trust the machine and we did. And the optimistic voices kept going ignoring that. I feel like Twitter has become a replacement for thah in a sense. I can’t explain why. But too much faith is being placed on that weird machine. Faith thah it represents everyone or that the people on it speak for everyone.
Just something to think about. Because at the end of the day I know the people coming out to vote for trump are the ones who aren’t on Twitter.

I’ll have to try to find it, but someone broke down like the percentage of voters that are actually on twitter and it’s low. Twitter is a very interesting tool and I get a lot of info there, but the twitter freak outs and “controversies” are comical at best and dangerous at worst. I stay on there because it allows me access to some critical voices I would not have otherwise and because Chrissy Tiegan is a national treasure. But I am very skeptical of what I see there. Especially after I felt burned by that damn edit of the Feinstein video with the kids.

[richard]

Mar 31, 2019 14:49:57 GMT -6 jaygee said:

Mar 31, 2019 14:35:52 GMT -6 misspatty said:

So you think that an entire major US political party is being blackmailed by a foreign government without anyone finding out? Every single of of those politicians and their aides and whoever else haven’t told a single person? The CIA, FBI, and NSA all have the wool pulled over their eyes? That is like... on par with 9/11 conspiracy theories to me.

I think there is a good chance that several key leaders in the GOP are compromised. The ones that stand out to me are sessions, Lindsey Graham and Mike Pence. McConnel I actually don’t think so because I think power alone is enough for him + his wife’s job. I also think some of the less powerful sycophants might be blackmailed. Like Matt Gertz.

I certainly don’t know but I have a hard time figuring out why they would be sticking by Trump so closely. It is eventually going to be career suicide for them, so what is keeping them so loyal? Maybe they have the same core morals as T but it seems that would have been apparent before now.

I think the most obvious answer is usually the answer. They’re doing what is politically expedient now. That’s the long and short of it.

[jaygee]

Mar 31, 2019 14:57:27 GMT -6 richard said:

Mar 31, 2019 14:49:57 GMT -6 jaygee said:

I think there is a good chance that several key leaders in the GOP are compromised. The ones that stand out to me are sessions, Lindsey Graham and Mike Pence. McConnel I actually don’t think so because I think power alone is enough for him + his wife’s job. I also think some of the less powerful sycophants might be blackmailed. Like Matt Gertz.

I certainly don’t know but I have a hard time figuring out why they would be sticking by Trump so closely. It is eventually going to be career suicide for them, so what is keeping them so loyal? Maybe they have the same core morals as T but it seems that would have been apparent before now.

I think the most obvious answer is usually the answer. They’re doing what is politically expedient now. That’s the long and short of it.

True.

And full circle, my toxic optimism has trouble computing that they would go along with policies that are so morally corrupt and excuse should horrible behavior by the leader of their own party just in the name of “political expediency”, but here we are. And they have shown us who they are, so they are also racist, sexists that need to never hold office again.

[doublestuf]

Mar 31, 2019 14:35:52 GMT -6 misspatty said:

Mar 31, 2019 14:26:21 GMT -6 jaygee said:

I don’t disagree with the thoughts on Russia blackmailing the GOP tho. I mean, I have yet to find a better explanation of why they won’t push back on Trump. 🤷🏻‍♀️

So you think that an entire major US political party is being blackmailed by a foreign government without anyone finding out? Every single of of those politicians and their aides and whoever else haven’t told a single person? The CIA, FBI, and NSA all have the wool pulled over their eyes? That is like... on par with 9/11 conspiracy theories to me.

Speaking only for me but there has to be something on Nunes and Graham. There may be others but those two stick out like sore thumbs. And they clearly have no issue shaking our democracy to its core just to keep themselves in power.

But, I don't think the entire party is compromised. I hope...

[elle]

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the Russians only hacked the Dems. Obviously that doesn't mean they're using the information they learned to blackmail key members of the GOP but to equate that possibility to an outlandish conspiracy theory is a bit OTT. Lindsay Graham himself said in a tv interview in December of 2016 that he was hacked by the Russians. Clearly nothing has been released from those alleged hacks, so either nothing even remotely incriminating or damaging was found, or they're sitting on the information. It's not wild or crazy to surmise that Graham wasn't the only one targeted.

Again, this doesn't mean that any recent actions by anyone in the GOP are due to blackmail but it's not a crazy line of speculation to think it may be a (however remote) possibility.

[starbuck]

Conspiracy theories sometimes feel, to me, like searching for answers that make us feel better. It would be nice to believe that one day soon they would say fuck it, and make it all public, and throw themselves on the sword to make it stop. It provides a glimmer of hope to think that it could all explode soon. A staffer slips up. Turtle comes out of his shell.

But I think the answer here is that racism is pernicious and widespread and deeply rooted. And we are witnesses to that. Nothing more.

It's Occam's razor. They're just racist shitbags and this is what we have until we make it change. I hope the nation does the right thing in 2020, but I honestly don't know what to think.

[dc2london]

And I have to own the fact that my post was flippant and offered zero context so yeah, it's understandable that someone might have read it as me objecting to the criticism, and therefore, any criticism. That's not at all what I meant but I understand how someone thought it was what I meant. So I take ownership of that mistake

[athn64]

Mar 31, 2019 13:59:25 GMT -6 dc2london said:

Mar 31, 2019 13:57:59 GMT -6 richard said:

I never said Bernie didn't earn the bias against him.

Lol.

My BFF was here today and said her dream ticket is Bernie/Warren. I became Oprah.

Wth to that coupling.

[athn64]

Mar 31, 2019 14:35:52 GMT -6 misspatty said:

Mar 31, 2019 14:26:21 GMT -6 jaygee said:

I don’t disagree with the thoughts on Russia blackmailing the GOP tho. I mean, I have yet to find a better explanation of why they won’t push back on Trump. 🤷🏻‍♀️

So you think that an entire major US political party is being blackmailed by a foreign government without anyone finding out? Every single of of those politicians and their aides and whoever else haven’t told a single person? The CIA, FBI, and NSA all have the wool pulled over their eyes? That is like... on par with 9/11 conspiracy theories to me.

I'm sure some are. But my rep is just an asshole out for number one. No one has anything on him.

[dc2london]

Mar 31, 2019 14:57:27 GMT -6 richard said:

Mar 31, 2019 14:49:57 GMT -6 jaygee said:

I think there is a good chance that several key leaders in the GOP are compromised. The ones that stand out to me are sessions, Lindsey Graham and Mike Pence. McConnel I actually don’t think so because I think power alone is enough for him + his wife’s job. I also think some of the less powerful sycophants might be blackmailed. Like Matt Gertz.

I certainly don’t know but I have a hard time figuring out why they would be sticking by Trump so closely. It is eventually going to be career suicide for them, so what is keeping them so loyal? Maybe they have the same core morals as T but it seems that would have been apparent before now.

I think the most obvious answer is usually the answer. They’re doing what is politically expedient now. That’s the long and short of it.

This is my assessment as well. They've done the math and, if Trump's core base is actually 40% of the country who will loyally support him no matter what, they've made a calculation to hitch their wagons to his, no matter what, because power is all that matters

[misspatty]

Mar 31, 2019 15:26:17 GMT -6 dc2london said:

And I have to own the fact that my post was flippant and offered zero context so yeah, it's understandable that someone might have read it as me objecting to the criticism, and therefore, Amy criticism. That's not at all what I meant but I understand how someone thought it was what I meant. So I take ownership of that mistake

Oh, my sweet DC, out of everyone here I really don’t think anyone is actually upset with you at all.

[misspatty]

Mar 31, 2019 15:31:05 GMT -6 athn64 said:

Mar 31, 2019 14:35:52 GMT -6 misspatty said:

So you think that an entire major US political party is being blackmailed by a foreign government without anyone finding out? Every single of of those politicians and their aides and whoever else haven’t told a single person? The CIA, FBI, and NSA all have the wool pulled over their eyes? That is like... on par with 9/11 conspiracy theories to me.

I'm sure some are. But my rep is just an asshole out for number one. No one has anything on him.

Lol, I know the feeling.