Leaf 🌱
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Post by Leaf 🌱 on Oct 1, 2018 10:41:08 GMT -6
It’s all I want to talk about. How little I’m getting, how bad DD2 is at it right now, how much I love sleep, why can’t DD2 nap for more than 20 minutes, etc etc etc.
Should I buy precious little sleep? I’m struggling between surviving and setting up good habits. Also, anytime I seem to get something going DH and my mom are just surviving and kind of ruin it. We all need to have a CTJ about her schedule/routine but I need to come with a plan for them to follow.
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Post by clementine on Oct 1, 2018 12:20:18 GMT -6
Precious Little Sleep was hugely helpful for me as a FTM. Just learning about baby sleep and giving me some general guidelines for sleep schedules. I’m here with baby sleep issues too, so clearly it hasn’t solved all the problems, but I’d recommend reading it. I keep going back and re-reading various parts and I’m sure I’ll continue to in the future. Have you checked out the PLS website? It has a lot of good info too.
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Leaf 🌱
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Post by Leaf 🌱 on Oct 1, 2018 12:55:54 GMT -6
Precious Little Sleep was hugely helpful for me as a FTM. Just learning about baby sleep and giving me some general guidelines for sleep schedules. I’m here with baby sleep issues too, so clearly it hasn’t solved all the problems, but I’d recommend reading it. I keep going back and re-reading various parts and I’m sure I’ll continue to in the future. Have you checked out the PLS website? It has a lot of good info too. No not yet. I tried to john n the Facebook group but the questions to get in were like “what is the third word of the fifth chapter” 🙄 I’ll see if the library had it and maybe take it for a test drive 😂 I’m ready to hit 6mos so we can really sleep train if necessary.
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Post by clementine on Oct 1, 2018 13:13:49 GMT -6
Yeah, I’m in the FB group. Recently they changed the requirements for joining to ensure people had read or at least had the book. I think it was because they were getting a lot of posts asking about general topics that were spelled out clearly in the book. There are one trillion posts about specific situations, schedules, issues, etc and some have been pretty similar to what we’re going through so they’ve been helpful. I posted once and got 0 responses so that sucked but 🤷🏼♀️. We’ve moved past that issue and onto other ones anyway.
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Post by clementine on Oct 1, 2018 13:16:30 GMT -6
What is your bedtime routine like? PLS puts a lot of emphasis on bedtime and independent sleep by removing sleep associations (bottle, boob, pacifier, rocking, etc). That was step one for us, getting a (fairly) consistent routine we could stick to.
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snowmoon
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Post by snowmoon on Oct 1, 2018 17:20:53 GMT -6
E has been an awful sleeper for months despite having a really good stretch from 2-3.5 months haha. We were doing everything right-putting her down drowsy, white noise dark room, routine yada yada. Now, I nurse her to sleep and try unsuccessfully to put her un her crib 738 times before she stays asleep...for 40 minutes. By that time I'm ready for bed too and just end up bed sharing. It is the only way I get any sleep. My ds was the same and I swore this time would be different (ha!)
He slept in our bed until he was nearly 2. We did not try very hard to kick him out before then but I think we could have done it. He started napping on his own (floor bed) around 10 months. Until then I held him or wore him for every single nap.
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Leaf 🌱
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Post by Leaf 🌱 on Oct 1, 2018 20:23:23 GMT -6
clementine it’s usually bath, lotion, PJs, songs while rocking and nursing, then bed. She’s usually drowsy or asleep when I put her down. I tried moving the nursing up earlier but she’s just fall asleep. I’m hoping that this is just a phase but she seems to take one step forward and then 2-3 back. She’s also a bit crankier and more congested than usual so it could be tweth or a cold. This is my least favorite part of babies - I just want to be able to identify and fix the problem. She’s also a bad napper fornmy mom and DH Buy naps independently and for 60-90 minutes for me. So I don’t know. I’m seriously considering giving a bottle of formula at night to see if a full tummy will help.
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Post by leatherpants on Oct 1, 2018 21:01:22 GMT -6
I think you should buy it Leaf 🌱. Its been wel worth the $$ for me, and I’ve re read it multiple times depending on the current situation. One of the things that the book said was that night sleep and nap sleep are like separate beasts and that the learning from one doesn’t necessarily transfer to the next. Which, of course it doesn’t because why should it be easy like that. Although to be fair, once we got one working well, the other did happen easier so. I would guess that Alexis would say that your best bet will be to work on getting baby to fall asleep on their own at bedtime. Bedtime is the best time to work on that because essentially they are the most tired then. There are a bunch of strategies of course to do that and if you are having troubles with grandma and dad on board, I say you lay down the law for them. Pick one strategy and try it for 7 days and everyone has to do it or else they have to be the ones getting up a million times at night. Ha ha I have threatened my family very severely if they don’t follow my rules, especially if we are working on something. It’s been very effective (For my family listening. Not all of our experiments have worked great but at least I know then it just didn’t work - not because someone sabotaged it)
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Post by leatherpants on Oct 1, 2018 21:06:22 GMT -6
Oh wait. Maybe I misunderstood Leaf. Is she asleep when you put her down to bed? We have the same routine but I nurse him first and the bath etc. The 20 min difference hasn’t made any difference for hunger (like he’s still full) but then he’s not falling asleep on the boob so then he’s for sure awake when I put him down.
Anyways, it sounds like you are doing a ton of things right. Maybe just that switch to nursing first and then routine and working on falling asleep without the nursing help, will be the magic answer. Fingers crossed!
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Post by leatherpants on Oct 1, 2018 21:09:09 GMT -6
Precious Little Sleep was hugely helpful for me as a FTM. Just learning about baby sleep and giving me some general guidelines for sleep schedules. I’m here with baby sleep issues too, so clearly it hasn’t solved all the problems, but I’d recommend reading it. I keep going back and re-reading various parts and I’m sure I’ll continue to in the future. Have you checked out the PLS website? It has a lot of good info too. No not yet. I tried to john n the Facebook group but the questions to get in were like “what is the third word of the fifth chapter” 🙄 I’ll see if the library had it and maybe take it for a test drive 😂 I’m ready to hit 6mos so we can really sleep train if necessary. Sorry I’m just re-reading so it only feels like I’m stalking you I just laughed so hard because that’s the lamest thing to get into a FB group. I guess the rationale makes sense but oh my goodness
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Post by leatherpants on Oct 1, 2018 21:14:42 GMT -6
Anyways, of course I’m here. Sleep is my secret passion.
We’ve been having issues here and I can’t get it figured it out. He goes to bed with the same routine etc every night. Fully awake, Fed etc. Half the nights he wakes up at 10, half of them he doesn’t. I can’t seem to sort out what days will get him past 10.
If he gets up at 10, I know we are in for a rougher night (like 2-3 wakeups). If he doesn’t, we probably have one wakeup.
I’ve tried feeding (it makes it worse. He’ll wake up way more often if I feed him at 10 so the new rule is no food before midnight, like a reverse gremlin), soothing (fat chance of anything soothing but the boob) and just letting him cry. The CIO works, until the next random day he does it.
Someone fix my baby please and thank you.
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Post by nevertoomanyshoes on Oct 1, 2018 21:20:51 GMT -6
leatherpants mine is like that too, something will work until it bloody doesn’t. So annoying.
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Post by leatherpants on Oct 1, 2018 21:23:55 GMT -6
leatherpants mine is like that too, something will work until it bloody doesn’t. So annoying. The worst! Do you think it sounds like a just ride it out kind of thing? Bedtime is still a bit hinky, since naps aren’t on a schedule yet and I think it’s related to bedtime but we end up in a weird place where he’s either having a short late nap (like 4/430) or it’s a long stretch until bedtime (and he’s a mess). Maybe that’s it and we just need to wait until naps can be scheduled when he can stay up a bit longer.
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Post by nevertoomanyshoes on Oct 1, 2018 21:24:30 GMT -6
snowmoon I had the same transfer one million times then up every 40 with DS1. First goal from sleep consultant was to get him to bed awake. Otherwise they want to nurse back to sleep after every sleep cycle. No thank you. With him, we did bath, lotion, pjs, nurse, sleep sack, story, bed (with white noise and me sitting next to the crib at first). Nurse in a lit room not the dark. The first night we did this he slept 3 hours before first wake up instead of every 45 minutes.
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Leaf 🌱
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Post by Leaf 🌱 on Oct 1, 2018 22:00:42 GMT -6
The worst part is I LOVE LOVE LOVE nursing to sleep and cuddling at the end of the day. It makes it all a thousand times worse bc I want to do it, especially after I’ve been at work all day. Both girls and I are all snuggly sleepers - DH would rather die than touch some one while sleeping 😂 if cosleeping wouldn’t kill my marriage and ruin my evening alone time I’d probably just fully embrace it. leatherpants if she falls asleep on the boob when nursing before a bath do I just wake her up? I went through the blog a bunch and with the exception of nursing to sleep we seem to be doing everything right. She can and does fall asleep on her own with minimal fussing so I think we just need to make that more of the norm. I did just buy a louder sound machine bc she really needs something blaring. If “space shuttle blast off” was a sound option that would be ideal. The dumb dohm is too quiet.
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Post by leatherpants on Oct 1, 2018 22:40:14 GMT -6
Leaf 🌱, aw I remember having that feeling too. Like I hated not sleeping, but I loved that and was mad I had to give it up to sleep. It seemed really unfair. Does she fall asleep nursing in a lit room even if it’s before the rest of routine? Tickling her feet? All those newborn tricks? Or maybe try moving everything up 15 mins earlier? Maybe she’s too overtired by the time bed happens and that’s making it harder? Like I wonder if maybe she is tired enough to fall asleep at first but hasn’t quite figured out how to do it later? I think If it were me, I would try starting bedtime a bit earlier and nursing first. That way you’d be working on both the sleep association and the sleep independently.
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Post by leatherpants on Oct 1, 2018 22:45:30 GMT -6
I don’t know though. I’m a big fan of throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what sticks and I have zero patience to wait things through. I want it all to work right now ha.
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Post by nevertoomanyshoes on Oct 1, 2018 23:39:55 GMT -6
leatherpants mine is like that too, something will work until it bloody doesn’t. So annoying. The worst! Do you think it sounds like a just ride it out kind of thing? Bedtime is still a bit hinky, since naps aren’t on a schedule yet and I think it’s related to bedtime but we end up in a weird place where he’s either having a short late nap (like 4/430) or it’s a long stretch until bedtime (and he’s a mess). Maybe that’s it and we just need to wait until naps can be scheduled when he can stay up a bit longer. Yeah I think it’s hard to attack the inconsistent problems. DS2 has heaps of nights in a row where he’ll wake to eat multiple times at the exact same time no matter what I do the same or different then it stops and a new pattern starts.
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Post by clementine on Oct 2, 2018 5:14:42 GMT -6
Leaf 🌱 it sounds like you have a good bedtime routine. I agree with LP about moving bedtime a little earlier and working on getting rid of the nurse to sleep/drowsy association. L will still get pretty drowsy and close to sleep while nursing, and it is so hard to keep him super awake during that time. We can’t really move bedtime any earlier because of my work schedule. Once he’s done nursing i make sure he’s nice and awake, then we do PJs, sleep sack, books, song and he’s pretty alert through the routine, so I’m hoping that’s enough?
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Post by clementine on Oct 2, 2018 5:17:25 GMT -6
+1 to the inconsistent wakings and issues. I can’t ever find a pattern to know what worked and didn’t work as far as daytime sleep, bedtime routine, etc having an effect on night sleep.
L goes down pretty well in his crib WITH a pacifier (sometimes without) after our bedtime routine which is about 15 min long after he nurses. I’m not sure if this is quite long enough to separate nursing from bed, but he starts getting antsy after too long. From there, it’s anyone’s guess for how the rest of the night goes. He often wakes after 3 hours. Then he’ll sometimes wake again in 2-3 hours or sleep til 5. I know he can go from 7:30-5 without nursing, but I’m really okay with him nursing once through the night. I’m just not okay with 3 or 4 times and up more in between those too. I’ve been trying to get him back down with the pacifier if it’s not been long since he last nursed, but that usually doesn’t work well. It’s just so easy to get him back down by nursing so I keep doing it. But I worry I’m just reinforcing the wakings. H has been holding/rocking him if he wakes super early in the morning while I’m still getting ready. Which is nice, but again I feel like it’s setting up a bad habit.
I think we need to get rid of the pacifier, but it’s hard and I don’t want to. I don’t know about CIO yet. It’s like I want to do it so we can hopefully have some better nights in the future, but I’m not ready for it. I mean, is the idea just suffer through X number of nights with lots of crying and little sleep for a lifetime (ha) of falling asleep independently and fewer/no night wakings? I know it doesn’t necessarily have to be the end of night nursing, but I’m having a hard time figuring out the logistics for a plan. Probably because my brain is running at half capacity from lack of sleep.
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Leaf 🌱
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Post by Leaf 🌱 on Oct 2, 2018 6:16:08 GMT -6
I don’t know though. I’m a big fan of throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what sticks and I have zero patience to wait things through. I want it all to work right now ha. Why can’t I get a solution in two days via amazon prime?! I’m a millennial! I need instant gratification and don’t want to put in the work!! LOLOLOLOLOLsobLOLOLOLOLOL
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Post by calendula on Oct 2, 2018 6:59:51 GMT -6
Just throwing this out there again...are you all covering night wakings and bedtime exclusively? What happens if your DHs jump in? DS was a sleep disaster and we tried everything, but cutting the "mom" association with nighttime was the most productive thing we tried. Just a thought.
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Leaf 🌱
Sapphire
Posts: 2,855 Likes: 12,814
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Post by Leaf 🌱 on Oct 2, 2018 7:21:37 GMT -6
Just throwing this out there again...are you all covering night wakings and bedtime exclusively? What happens if your DHs jump in? DS was a sleep disaster and we tried everything, but cutting the "mom" association with nighttime was the most productive thing we tried. Just a thought. Well last night DD2 woke up around 1030 while I was in the shower and since she was “screaming and pushing away from him” he brought to play in our brightly lit bedroom 😑 This did work well for DD1 last year though! And this is why I’m tempted to give a bottle at night sometimes. Also bc I just want a GD break.
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Post by calendula on Oct 2, 2018 7:50:33 GMT -6
Just throwing this out there again...are you all covering night wakings and bedtime exclusively? What happens if your DHs jump in? DS was a sleep disaster and we tried everything, but cutting the "mom" association with nighttime was the most productive thing we tried. Just a thought. Well last night DD2 woke up around 1030 while I was in the shower and since she was “screaming and pushing away from him” he brought to play in our brightly lit bedroom 😑 This did work well for DD1 last year though! And this is why I’m tempted to give a bottle at night sometimes. Also bc I just want a GD break. That's a good reason, you know. There is no award for "took the least amount of breaks". ::hugs::: If you think supplementing at night would help baby sleep better and more equitably share parenting responsibility, then go for it. It worked great for us with both kids.
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snowmoon
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Post by snowmoon on Oct 2, 2018 18:16:56 GMT -6
Just throwing this out there again...are you all covering night wakings and bedtime exclusively? What happens if your DHs jump in? DS was a sleep disaster and we tried everything, but cutting the "mom" association with nighttime was the most productive thing we tried. Just a thought. E works herself into hysterics if SO tries to soothe her or put her to sleep. But she does the same thing to me if I don't immediately pop a boob in her mouth. Sooo 🤷♀️
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snowmoon
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Post by snowmoon on Oct 2, 2018 18:18:32 GMT -6
I still think that most of our bedtime bullshit is a result of being over tired. I just can't seem to manage to get a good nap routine going.
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Post by calendula on Oct 3, 2018 6:35:27 GMT -6
Just throwing this out there again...are you all covering night wakings and bedtime exclusively? What happens if your DHs jump in? DS was a sleep disaster and we tried everything, but cutting the "mom" association with nighttime was the most productive thing we tried. Just a thought. E works herself into hysterics if SO tries to soothe her or put her to sleep. But she does the same thing to me if I don't immediately pop a boob in her mouth. Sooo 🤷♀️ With DS, he gave up on the hysterics much faster with DH because there were no boobs to hold out for. Get some rest!
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snowmoon
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Post by snowmoon on Oct 3, 2018 7:19:20 GMT -6
E works herself into hysterics if SO tries to soothe her or put her to sleep. But she does the same thing to me if I don't immediately pop a boob in her mouth. Sooo 🤷♀️ With DS, he gave up on the hysterics much faster with DH because there were no boobs to hold out for. Get some rest! It would be so much easier if she was in her own room, I think. Our house is just so small that I worry about waking everybody up.
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Post by calendula on Oct 3, 2018 7:36:16 GMT -6
snowmoon I've been debating moving L too. Now that she is 6 months it seems like its time, but IDK. She's still in her arms reach bassinet. I like waking up to her babbling in the morning and its so convenient to have her right there.
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snowmoon
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Post by snowmoon on Oct 3, 2018 7:43:37 GMT -6
calendula we don't even have a room to move her to ha! Hopefully we can move by the new year.
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