ripper
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Post by ripper on Sept 10, 2018 8:55:05 GMT -6
My parents were over last night and we got in a bit of a tiff about Serena's tennis match. My parents were like, we'll she wasn't following the rules! she was abusive to the ump! Naomi won fair and square!
They refused to see the complexity of it all.
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Post by reginaphalange8 on Sept 10, 2018 9:14:09 GMT -6
I didn’t know that they couldn’t receive coaching from the side lines because I’ve seen so many of them get it. I think it sucks because she didn’t ask her coach to give it to her. I think she went a little over board with the ‘you need to apologize’ thing but it was for the championship so I get that it was emotionally charged.
I think the game that she got taken away for ‘verbal abuse’ was just totally rediculous. She literally said he was a thief, like, it’s not that serious dude.
I think the way she handled it after with acknowlowging Naomi’s hard work and refusing to answer questions about the incident was really great.
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tater
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Post by tater on Sept 10, 2018 9:19:15 GMT -6
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Sept 10, 2018 9:20:08 GMT -6
for me - it is complex. I feel both sides could have handled themselves better.
then for her coach to say he was coaching her, IDK.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Sept 10, 2018 9:21:37 GMT -6
while I do agree I have seen men do way more than that. I do feel her going back and back and on and on was a lot for me.
I felt she had already made her point and could have stopped.
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Post by sheilathetank on Sept 10, 2018 9:22:27 GMT -6
This tweet thread breaks down the inconsistencies in how she was treated vs. other players.
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Post by ladybrienne on Sept 10, 2018 9:23:01 GMT -6
Considering the cartoon that just came out and how it depicted her, I am ready to burn it down on her behalf. It's fucking vile.
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Post by whoopster on Sept 10, 2018 9:23:15 GMT -6
for me - it is complex. I feel both sides could have handled themselves better. then for her coach to say he was coaching her, IDK.I found this to be something also...
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tater
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Post by tater on Sept 10, 2018 9:24:26 GMT -6
This tweet thread breaks down the inconsistencies in how she was treated vs. other players. Yes, this was excellent.
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Post by sheilathetank on Sept 10, 2018 9:26:38 GMT -6
But you know, sexism and racism in sports doesn't exist.
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Pizzaslut
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Post by Pizzaslut on Sept 10, 2018 9:27:19 GMT -6
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starbuck
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Post by starbuck on Sept 10, 2018 9:28:00 GMT -6
Considering the cartoon that just came out and how it depicted her, I am ready to burn it down on her behalf. It's fucking vile. This cartoon has me spinning. Like WTF.
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ripper
Opal
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Post by ripper on Sept 10, 2018 9:29:30 GMT -6
Considering the cartoon that just came out and how it depicted her, I am ready to burn it down on her behalf. It's fucking vile. This cartoon has me spinning. Like WTF. Is this the one that showed Naomi as a white blond?
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Post by angelashly on Sept 10, 2018 9:30:03 GMT -6
for me - it is complex. I feel both sides could have handled themselves better. then for her coach to say he was coaching her, IDK. Yes this is my thing. I keep going back and forth. I like her a lot and I understand where she was coming from on the sexism, but there is a time and place and to continue going isn't going to get her way. For her and her coach to say well everyone receives coaching, while true it is the same as when speeding sometimes you get caught and have to face consequences. I am so conflicted on this whole thing
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Post by ladybrienne on Sept 10, 2018 9:30:31 GMT -6
There are a lot of tennis greats on the men's side, and in sports in general, who have acted a way and nothing was done. Nada. No points taken, no fines.
John McEnroe was a huge asshole, and was championed for it! Like the guy berated the chair umpires all.the.time. He probably made more money off the game because of that shit.
To me, it's an absolute double standard, making it difficult for women to show emotion in sports, but especially more difficult for black women because racism. I feel she was treated unfairly. And some of the backlash, including the cartoon I mentioned, solidifies it for me.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Sept 10, 2018 9:30:50 GMT -6
for me - it is complex. I feel both sides could have handled themselves better. then for her coach to say he was coaching her, IDK.I found this to be something also... This bothered me more because it made her seem like she lied.
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starbuck
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Post by starbuck on Sept 10, 2018 9:31:36 GMT -6
This cartoon has me spinning. Like WTF. Is this the one that showed Naomi as a white blond? YEP
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Post by reginaphalange8 on Sept 10, 2018 9:31:44 GMT -6
for me - it is complex. I feel both sides could have handled themselves better. then for her coach to say he was coaching her, IDK.I found this to be something also... This is the other thing. They may not call this very often but he did coach and it is a rule that you cannot. I think she felt personally attacked because she thought it implied she cheated but the call doesn’t say that she took the coaching or even saw it but that the coach made the gesture. But the verbal abuse was just a bullshit call.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Sept 10, 2018 9:32:06 GMT -6
I also cringed when she said he would never be on her side line again or something to that effect but she has said that before to someone else so.
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Post by flamingo on Sept 10, 2018 9:33:31 GMT -6
I follow tennis a fair bit; I don't think this was handled fairly compared to male players I've seen, and she should not have lost the game.
Would Osaka have still won the match without that? Maybe, maybe not, we'll never know. She beat Serena pretty soundly in the first set so I don't think it was outside the realm of possibility.
There is definitely an element within the tennis community that does not care for Serena. I tend to think it's b/c she is more outspoken, wears more flamboyant apparel, etc...things that make the old-school tennis community clutch their pearls a bit. It's a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, b/c US Women's tennis needs Serena more than she needs them, at this point. She is arguably the most famous American women's player right now (and has been for years), has been extremely successful, and is super marketable.
With that said, she has 'gotten into it' with umps, particularly at the US Open, before (a match with Kim Clijsters comes to mind) so she kind of knows what to expect. And her coach did admit to 'coaching her'. I'm not saying it's right that she lost the point and the game, but I personally would mind my Ps & Qs with an umpire if I had a history with him. But I get that she was in the heat of the moment, felt like she'd been treated unfairly, etc.
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gimmeaQ
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Post by gimmeaQ on Sept 10, 2018 9:34:59 GMT -6
I can't adequately articulate my feelings on this
I have been around some very very high level athletes, male and female, and male and female coaches/staff. There IS a different standard. Anyone who says otherwise is naive or misinformed.
I think Naomi would have won regardless. This may be controversial, I don't know. It just didn't seem to be Serena's best day (and she is the best female tennis player ever, just to get that straight). Those days happen. They're difficult for athletes on many levels.
But I don't know how anyone can look at the Twitter thread linked above and not realize that the umpire was acting like a buffoon who had to over power the best tennis player ever just because she's a woman.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Sept 10, 2018 9:35:27 GMT -6
There are a lot of tennis greats on the men's side, and in sports in general, who have acted a way and nothing was done. Nada. No points taken, no fines. John McEnroe was a huge asshole, and was championed for it! Like the guy berated the chair umpires all.the.time. He probably made more money off the game because of that shit. To me, it's an absolute double standard, making it difficult for women to show emotion in sports, but especially more difficult for black women because racism. I feel she was treated unfairly. And some of the backlash, including the cartoon I mentioned, solidifies it for me. He was fined for it quite a bit. Also the standards of acceptable behavior have changed over time and someone going to the extremes that he used to do would likely have a very short career. Men are fined, and this particular umpire has a history of inconsistencies even between the same actions by different men in a match. Having been called a number of things while sitting in the referee position and not always direct names, but at times comments like she made and toeing the line with other rules, I have conflicted feelings on some of this.
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gimmeaQ
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Post by gimmeaQ on Sept 10, 2018 9:37:17 GMT -6
I also cringed when she said he would never be on her side line again or something to that effect but she has said that before to someone else so. and that umpire specifically has had that same thing said to him by male players (in the Twitter thread linked above). I'm not saying it's not a little OTT. but he reacted differently to her saying it than Rafa Nadal.
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Post by ladybrienne on Sept 10, 2018 9:37:41 GMT -6
There are a lot of tennis greats on the men's side, and in sports in general, who have acted a way and nothing was done. Nada. No points taken, no fines. John McEnroe was a huge asshole, and was championed for it! Like the guy berated the chair umpires all.the.time. He probably made more money off the game because of that shit. To me, it's an absolute double standard, making it difficult for women to show emotion in sports, but especially more difficult for black women because racism. I feel she was treated unfairly. And some of the backlash, including the cartoon I mentioned, solidifies it for me. He was fined for it quite a bit. Also the standards of acceptable behavior have changed over time and someone going to the extremes that he used to do would likely have a very short career. Men are fined, and this particular umpire has a history of inconsistencies even between the same actions by different men in a match. Having been called a number of things while sitting in the referee position and not always direct names, but at times comments like she made and toeing the line with other rules, I have conflicted feelings on some of this. I know he was fined a lot - my point in bringing McEnroe up was that instead of being subjected to some fucked up backlash like Serena is, he was championed for his behavior. But let's be real here, there are plenty of male players who have gotten away with A LOT more, for a lot less when it comes to punishment, and this is present in all sports.
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Post by angelashly on Sept 10, 2018 9:37:59 GMT -6
I can't adequately articulate my feelings on this I have been around some very very high level athletes, male and female, and male and female coaches/staff. There IS a different standard. Anyone who says otherwise is naive or misinformed. I think Naomi would have won regardless. This may be controversial, I don't know. It just didn't seem to be Serena's best day (and she is the best female tennis player ever, just to get that straight). Those days happen. They're difficult for athletes on many levels. But I don't know how anyone can look at the Twitter thread linked above and not realize that the umpire was acting like a buffoon who had to over power the best tennis player ever just because she's a woman. I think that Naomi would have won too and I feel for her that she is now not even going to be able to enjoy her win because everyone is doubting it.
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gimmeaQ
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Post by gimmeaQ on Sept 10, 2018 9:40:19 GMT -6
I got a little uncomfortable when she started saying "I'm a mother" as if that was a universal blanket for never doing anything bad.
Again, why I can't articulate all of my feelings on this.
I feel awful for Osaka.
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starbuck
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Post by starbuck on Sept 10, 2018 9:41:47 GMT -6
There's also been some emerging evidence lately that Serena gets drug screened with greater frequency than other players. It's more than just this one event.
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Post by angelashly on Sept 10, 2018 9:44:05 GMT -6
I know that I probably get my news from good outlets but besides the cartoon posted here I've not seen a negative word said against Serena
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stringy
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Post by stringy on Sept 10, 2018 9:44:20 GMT -6
He was fined for it quite a bit. Also the standards of acceptable behavior have changed over time and someone going to the extremes that he used to do would likely have a very short career. Men are fined, and this particular umpire has a history of inconsistencies even between the same actions by different men in a match. Having been called a number of things while sitting in the referee position and not always direct names, but at times comments like she made and toeing the line with other rules, I have conflicted feelings on some of this. I know he was fined a lot - my point in bringing McEnroe up was that instead of being subjected to some fucked up backlash like Serena is, he was championed for his behavior. But let's be real here, there are plenty of male players who have gotten away with A LOT more, for a lot less when it comes to punishment, and this is present in all sports. People used to tune in specifically to watch McEnroe have a tantrum. It was practically marketing for the sport.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Sept 10, 2018 9:45:36 GMT -6
There's also been some emerging evidence lately that Serena gets drug screened with greater frequency than other players. It's more than just this one event. So? Target testing is standard in most international sports. The better you are, the more you get tested.
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