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Post by PandaWatch on Oct 13, 2023 10:59:43 GMT -6
Cher not to sound defensive but I liked DC’s post because of the last part - that they were still holding the event. Because I find beauty when community can come together even in the toughest of times. I know everything is going to be seen through a lens and I will be more aware of my words and interactions going forward. this is also why I liked DC‘s post. Also, I’m pretty sure I know which synagogue she is referring to and was agreeing that it’s a wonderful place. That said, thank you Cher for so articulately expressing the fact that our Jewish friends, neighbors and classmates are feeling very scared and vulnerable right now, and that we should keep that front of mind as we all try to navigate this very nuanced and difficult situation.
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Post by notblanche on Oct 13, 2023 10:59:56 GMT -6
But overall ellewoods I agree that consuming diverse media sources is important. Media literacy is a skill that we’re not taught enough.
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Post by yoginikiki on Oct 13, 2023 11:02:24 GMT -6
As a mother, I weep with the mothers of Israel and Gaza who have lost their children to Hamas. The atrocities that humans have suffered are inexcusable. The cruelty of Hamas is inexcusable. What I am hearing and echoing is that the children are children, regardless of where they live and lay their little heads at night. I think that is something we are all struggling with. We as mothers supporting mothers and holding mothers in mourning in our hearts and saying with them, all of them, that their children did not deserve to be murdered.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Oct 13, 2023 11:03:03 GMT -6
I know everything is going to be seen through a lens and I will be more aware of my words and interactions going forward. Yes. This is kind of my whole long-winded point. I don’t believe anyone is deliberately being hateful and I’m by no means the spokesperson, but I’ve heard from numerous people they are upset by the thread or afraid to post here. We need to be careful with our words when posters are experiencing this on a personal level.
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addymac
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Post by addymac on Oct 13, 2023 11:04:06 GMT -6
No one here is saying this or agreeing with this at all. Obviously there is antisemitism roaring out there and I’m sure there are people in the world that have said that and many Jews may be feeling this. But no one here - and I’m blessed because no one in my life- is saying what this post is saying. I acknowledge that the pain the Jewish community must be feeling is unlike anything I’ve ever come close to experiencing. Committing war crimes in retaliation is not the answer.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Oct 13, 2023 11:04:19 GMT -6
See above. That is what it feels like. Don't do anything, Jews, and let yourselves be killed off. They can’t leave. They are being held hostage. 1 million of the people we are talking about are children? How do they leave? How? The inaccuracies of that social media post are painful. And again, I can only speak for myself but I’m not saying in any way that Jewish people should not defend themselves. But I do not agree with collective punishment, especially when it the punishment is death of innocent civilians. Israel defending itself against Hamas should not be killing innocent civilians of Gaza. Just like America retaliating for 9/11 should not have been bombing other countries. It’s never ok.
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Post by notblanche on Oct 13, 2023 11:09:02 GMT -6
I don’t feel it’s appropriate, or spoken in good faith, to liken me to a Holocaust denier. I need to walk away. My husband and my children are descended from victims and survivors.
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origami
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Post by origami on Oct 13, 2023 11:09:02 GMT -6
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Oct 13, 2023 11:14:39 GMT -6
Cher can you share exactly what is antisemitic in this thread? I hate to use this phrase but I’m genuinely asking. No one is disputing anyone’s fears or feelings (except when racism was involved). Numerous times people have said this is a sensitive subject and people have a right to feel how they feel. Is there an expectation to not be critical of Israel at all? How many times should we say we condemn Hamas? I’m just not clear from your post what you’re looking for. Being critical of Israel is not antisemitism.
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Post by babybean on Oct 13, 2023 11:17:30 GMT -6
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Eagles
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Post by Eagles on Oct 13, 2023 11:17:59 GMT -6
I know everything is going to be seen through a lens and I will be more aware of my words and interactions going forward. Yes. This is kind of my whole long-winded point. I don’t believe anyone I’m by no means the spokesperson, but I’ve heard from numerous people they are upset by the thread or afraid to post here. We need to be careful with our words when posters are experiencing this on a personal level. To piggyback off of this, Jews across the world cannot just look at this situation without the lens of being Jewish. My friends are scared and grieving. Some are first gen Americans born to Israeli parents. This large scale terrorist attack was mounted with the aim of killing Jews in horrifying ways. And they are not surprised, because they live with antisemitism every day. Every day. They don't support Netanyahu any more than we supported Trump, and they don't condone the siege on Gaza. But they feel like they are not being heard or given space to grieve and process. So if a Jewish person says "this feels antisemitic, this feels like an attack on who I am" I'm going to listen to them. We are coming up on the 5 year anniversary of the Tree of Life massacre. I was working on the midterms that day, and as we suspended operations a fellow vol, a wonderful middle aged Jewish woman, broke down and said to me "why do they hate us so much?" That memory will never leave me.
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addymac
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Post by addymac on Oct 13, 2023 11:18:30 GMT -6
I don’t feel it’s appropriate, or spoken in good faith, to liken me to a Holocaust denier. I need to walk away. My husband and my children are descended from victims and survivors. Take your space, friend. Hugs. I have been quiet on social media and here (until today) because I have been keeping space for my husband, in-laws, and extended family. Not because I am on one side or the other. Social media Silence does not equal acceptance or approval of atrocities committed by terrorists.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Oct 13, 2023 11:25:10 GMT -6
As a mother, I weep with the mothers of Israel and Gaza who have lost their children to Hamas. The atrocities that humans have suffered are inexcusable. The cruelty of Hamas is inexcusable. What I am hearing and echoing is that the children are children, regardless of where they live and lay their little heads at night. I think that is something we are all struggling with. We as mothers supporting mothers and holding mothers in mourning in our hearts and saying with them, all of them, that their children did not deserve to be murdered. A lot of my friends posted this which I think speaks to how heavy this is for all women.
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kbw
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Post by kbw on Oct 13, 2023 11:25:37 GMT -6
I’m having a hard time articulating so I hope I do this without hurting anyone further. We are talking about holding people in a safe place and that people don’t want to post here because we aren’t viewing this from a personally affected lens but we need to apply that to all. There’s been anti-Arab sentiment expressed while we have Arab posters actively in this thread and now a member feels that they have been told they are a Holocaust denier. That’s not fair either.
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Post by miawallace on Oct 13, 2023 11:29:33 GMT -6
My thing is just don’t be racist. I understand hurt for your people. This is sensitive and personal and I get that, but that doesn’t give you a pass to say xenophobic things or spread more propaganda. I won’t stand for that on any side. I don’t see anyone on this thread saying anything of what is being accused here.
My husband and his family are Jewish and they’ve been vocal on their desire for peace for Israel and Palestine. It’s not a pick a side thing here. But there needs to be accountability for when country’s are acting out of pocket. What is happening here is immoral. I’ll stand on that. I’ll call that out in Mexico in the USA. Anywhere.
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Post by lucilleaustero on Oct 13, 2023 11:30:37 GMT -6
For every legitimate study/ article/ pick your respected media that a person with a more pro-Israeli bent finds, and person with a more pro-Palestinian bent will find an opposing legitimate study/ article/ pick your respected media.
They can't be all propaganda, nor can they be all truth. Like, all other news stories that come out, there is always some propaganda, even when the truth is being told. The media we get our information from is never bias free because people are never bias free.
I think we all need to extend each other a lot of grace and understanding even if you don't understand or feel particularly graceful. My reading of posts here, well, posters are kind of all saying the same thing in being distressed by the horror and loss of innocent lives, but emotions and fear and exhaustion impact the way we write posts and the way we read posts.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Oct 13, 2023 11:38:39 GMT -6
Cher not to sound defensive but I liked DC’s post because of the last part - that they were still holding the event. Because I find beauty when community can come together even in the toughest of times. I know everything is going to be seen through a lens and I will be more aware of my words and interactions going forward. This is exactly why I shared that last night; The event was respectful but hopeful. I had doubts about sharing and see now I was wrong.
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Post by notblanche on Oct 13, 2023 11:40:39 GMT -6
I tend to cope by info dumping, and I think fact checking is important. But it can be hard for my ND brain to be appropriately sensitive. It’s something I’m working on. lucilleaustero I appreciate the reminder. This all really sucks
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Oct 13, 2023 11:43:43 GMT -6
I know everything is going to be seen through a lens and I will be more aware of my words and interactions going forward. Yes. This is kind of my whole long-winded point. I don’t believe anyone is deliberately being hateful and I’m by no means the spokesperson, but I’ve heard from numerous people they are upset by the thread or afraid to post here. We need to be careful with our words when posters are experiencing this on a personal level. I really should stay in my lane and just read in this thread (not making this about me, just acknowledging that I should havevl stayed in my lane and will now. I was trying to help where I thought misunderstandings were causing hurt)
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Oct 13, 2023 11:46:19 GMT -6
Cher not to sound defensive but I liked DC’s post because of the last part - that they were still holding the event. Because I find beauty when community can come together even in the toughest of times. I know everything is going to be seen through a lens and I will be more aware of my words and interactions going forward. This is exactly why I shared that last night; The event was respectful but hopeful. I had doubts about sharing and see now I was wrong. No! You weren’t wrong to share. I appreciated hearing and I’m glad they’re still having events. It’s also relevant info as our Jewish posters decide how to move through the world this weekend. I have had doubts about sharing a number of things and it sucks we’re all feeling that way. I think for some posters, its an unnerving thing to hear that a synagogue doesn’t have additional security. It probably makes them feel more alone when no one else mentions that’s kinda scary. And that’s on me too, I didn’t say anything.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Oct 13, 2023 11:49:39 GMT -6
This is exactly why I shared that last night; The event was respectful but hopeful. I had doubts about sharing and see now I was wrong. No! You weren’t wrong to share. I appreciated hearing and I’m glad they’re still having events. It’s also relevant info as our Jewish posters decide how to move through the world this weekend. I have had doubts about sharing a number of things and it sucks we’re all feeling that way. I think for some posters, its an unnerving thing to hear that a synagogue doesn’t have additional security. It probably makes them feel more alone when no one else mentions that’s kinda scary. And that’s on me too, I didn’t say anything. That makes perfect sense. And just because I felt pretty safe going there without a huge police presence does not mean that would be true for everyone.
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Post by ellewoods on Oct 13, 2023 11:56:49 GMT -6
I tend to cope by info dumping, and I think fact checking is important. But it can be hard for my ND brain to be appropriately sensitive. It’s something I’m working on. lucilleaustero I appreciate the reminder. This all really sucks I do this too - try and get all the info I can. And I hastily posted something earlier that I hadn’t thought all the way through and I rightfully got corrected.
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elle
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Post by elle on Oct 13, 2023 12:20:18 GMT -6
I'm usually a fairly prolific poster here but I've been spending most of my emotional energy on checking in with my friends who have connections/personal ties to this conflict and I just don't have the bandwidth (or quite frankly, the knowledge) to post. And I really want to be careful and not add to the trauma that anyone is feeling and experiencing.
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Post by ladybrienne on Oct 13, 2023 14:29:06 GMT -6
Isn't a ground invasion the current suspected plan anyway? My understanding is that the reason IDF is warning people to evacuate Gaza City is because they are planning a ground invasion to root out Hamas and rescue hostages. And all while attempting to mitigate civilian casualties. Am I losing it? But where are they supposed to go ? 😭 so many of the accounts I’ve seen is that there is literally no way out.
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willow
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Post by willow on Oct 13, 2023 14:48:36 GMT -6
I'm usually a fairly prolific poster here but I've been spending most of my emotional energy on checking in with my friends who have connections/personal ties to this conflict and I just don't have the bandwidth (or quite frankly, the knowledge) to post. And I really want to be careful and not add to the trauma that anyone is feeling and experiencing. This is me too. And what yoginikiki said. Everything is so overwhelming and I don't know what else to say other than that it is keeping me up at night to think of all these innocent people being killed for simply existing.
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Post by babybean on Oct 13, 2023 15:07:06 GMT -6
Isn't a ground invasion the current suspected plan anyway? My understanding is that the reason IDF is warning people to evacuate Gaza City is because they are planning a ground invasion to root out Hamas and rescue hostages. And all while attempting to mitigate civilian casualties. Am I losing it? But where are they supposed to go ? 😭 so many of the accounts I’ve seen is that there is literally no way out. There isn’t. I checked in on a friend earlier and their family is telling them that even people fleeing are being bombed. He also said they aren’t counting casualties yet because the numbers are going up so quickly. Lastly, I think it’s important to highlight that a lot of Gazan’s can see the writing on the wall and for them, dying at home is a final act of resistance to their oppression and suffering. I hope the world can hold space and understanding for that.
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Post by ladybrienne on Oct 13, 2023 15:17:02 GMT -6
But where are they supposed to go ? 😭 so many of the accounts I’ve seen is that there is literally no way out. There isn’t. I checked in on a friend earlier and their family is telling them that even people fleeing are being bombed. He also said they aren’t counting casualties yet because the numbers are going up so quickly. Lastly, I think it’s important to highlight that a lot of Gazan’s can see the writing on the wall and for them, dying at home is a final act of resistance to their oppression and suffering. I hope the world can hold space and understanding for that. I watched a few accounts from people trapped there before their phone batteries inevitably died due to lack of electricity and they had said they had tried several ways of fleeing, but the bombings were just non-stop so they had to go back to their homes. They described the routes they tried to take and it was just impossible. A mother was explaining the amount of comforting she is doing for her two little boys and she was so brave and measured. I simply cannot imagine. She maybe said two sentences before you could hear the explosions in the background. I am over here flinching but for her, it was routine and it broke my heart. As a mother, all of this is hitting me in such a way that is difficult to put into words. I know you all get that. I am holding space in my heart for all, but man do I have a soft spot in my heart for all of these mothers. We are the glue that holds it together. Imagine having to hold it together through this.
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Post by notexactly on Oct 13, 2023 15:41:35 GMT -6
Isn't a ground invasion the current suspected plan anyway? My understanding is that the reason IDF is warning people to evacuate Gaza City is because they are planning a ground invasion to root out Hamas and rescue hostages. And all while attempting to mitigate civilian casualties. Am I losing it? But where are they supposed to go ? 😭 so many of the accounts I’ve seen is that there is literally no way out. They have nowhere to go. And even as they are trying to flee, they are being bombed.
"Health ministry in Gaza confirms: 40 people were killed, 150 injured by an Israeli airstrike that targeted Palestinians attempting to evacuate from Gaza, as ordered by the Israeli army. Israel had ordered 1.2 million Palestinians to leave their homes in Gaza and head south. pic.twitter.com/USa3uoDLGR"
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Post by babybean on Oct 14, 2023 6:51:08 GMT -6
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Post by notblanche on Oct 14, 2023 8:31:48 GMT -6
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