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Post by adorebel on Nov 29, 2017 13:25:32 GMT -6
tbh I have said a lot of mean and stereotypical things about Trump voters, even/especially the ones in my own family. Tryna be more like Michelle.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 13:28:52 GMT -6
How I feel about everything this week and it's only Wednesday.  So much this. I came in here to say this in a long-winded sort of way but you have it covered. |
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Post by bugglesbee on Nov 29, 2017 13:36:22 GMT -6
All the Trump voters I know are white, educated, upper middle class suburbanites. Do not think for a moment that they were misled or hanging on to hope that coal would make a comeback. They are Republicans who will always vote R because they believe it is better for their own pocketbooks, they genuinely don't care what happens to most outside of their own insular world, and they certainly don't believe they should pay for any of it. Trump's crazy base may be louder, but this is the true and plentiful Republican population who will continue to carry the party forward. Yes, this. I am surrounded by white educated middle class people who support this president or at least voted for him. That is why there is no push back from the GOP - these are their voters and they are not unhappy (at least not that I have heard/seen). |
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JukEboX
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Post by JukEboX on Nov 29, 2017 13:38:19 GMT -6
All the Trump voters I know are white, educated, upper middle class suburbanites. Do not think for a moment that they were misled or hanging on to hope that coal would make a comeback. They are Republicans who will always vote R because they believe it is better for their own pocketbooks, they genuinely don't care what happens to most outside of their own insular world, and they certainly don't believe they should pay for any of it. Trump's crazy base may be louder, but this is the true and plentiful Republican population who will continue to carry the party forward. Yes, this. I am surrounded by white educated middle class people who support this president or at least voted for him. That is why there is no push back from the GOP - these are their voters and they are not unhappy (at least not that I have heard/seen). I am not getting that around me much I guess. Supporters are few and far between. Mostly see them on the highway in pickup trucks or older people at work stuck in the "good ol' Days." Then there are the people who voted for him because he "wasn't Hilary" and are greatly double thinking their vote. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 13:40:44 GMT -6
I understand your frustration and share much of it, but when you choose to use words like that — doesn't matter if you changed them, because I quoted them — you only harm your own credibility. It's gross and it's about more than "manners." It's about common human fucking decency. these people.
DUDE. Do you actually hear yourself. |
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 29, 2017 13:42:13 GMT -6
Seeing a lot of tweets popping up encouraging NBC to leak the Celebrity Apprentice tapes Burnett has been withholding. I want this to happen so very much. But I have to remind myself that it's just for us. Nothing will change if it does. But I still want all that dirt exposed. my fear right now is that the narrative going forward will become "liberal journalists and politicians are all sexual predators and deviants." Many (unfortunately, I can't say "most") have a policy of always believing the accuser and the Democratic party as well as "liberal" media organizations have chosen to take action when misconduct comes to light. Meanwhile, Fox News is a known hotbed of sexual assault and harassment and it practically took an act of congress to get rid of O'Reilly and he STILL denies everything. Just like SHS tried to do, they're going to say, "Oh, well, that person apologized/resigned/welcomed an investigation so they're clearly bad while our guy lied, victim blamed or deflected so clearly he's an upstanding citizen." Please do not in any way interpret that as me saying that victims should be silenced. I'm just currently stewing about this harmful double standard. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 13:43:44 GMT -6
I'm not a big Keillor fan but man, rough couple of weeks for blue Minnesota.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 13:44:34 GMT -6
I want this to happen so very much. But I have to remind myself that it's just for us. Nothing will change if it does. But I still want all that dirt exposed. my fear right now is that the narrative going forward will become "liberal journalists and politicians are all sexual predators and deviants." Many (unfortunately, I can't say "most") have a policy of always believing the accuser and the Democratic party as well as "liberal" media organizations have chosen to take action when misconduct comes to light. Meanwhile, Fox News is a known hotbed of sexual assault and harassment and it practically took an act of congress to get rid of O'Reilly and he STILL denies everything. Just like SHS tried to do, they're going to say, "Oh, well, that person apologized/resigned/welcomed an investigation so they're clearly bad while our guy lied, victim blamed or deflected so clearly he's an upstanding citizen." Please do not in any way interpret that as me saying that victims should be silenced. I'm just currently stewing about this harmful double standard. I hear you loud and clear. The incentive right now is to just deny and, in Roy Moore's case, maybe even plant evidence, and that is proven strategy for koko'ing without consequences. I don't know if it's better or worse to know more about Trump and have the outcome be the same. Sigh. |
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Post by dc2london on Nov 29, 2017 13:44:52 GMT -6
Garrison always gave me the creepy old man vibe. For whatever reason, this story did not surprise me in the least.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 29, 2017 13:48:45 GMT -6
As much as we rage at GOP Senators when they suck, let's also thank them when they do the right thing. Ohio people, please thank Senator Portman for standing with the FixNICS movement that aims to keep firearms out of the hands of domestic abusers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 13:49:30 GMT -6
I want this to happen so very much. But I have to remind myself that it's just for us. Nothing will change if it does. But I still want all that dirt exposed. my fear right now is that the narrative going forward will become "liberal journalists and politicians are all sexual predators and deviants." Many (unfortunately, I can't say "most") have a policy of always believing the accuser and the Democratic party as well as "liberal" media organizations have chosen to take action when misconduct comes to light. Meanwhile, Fox News is a known hotbed of sexual assault and harassment and it practically took an act of congress to get rid of O'Reilly and he STILL denies everything. Just like SHS tried to do, they're going to say, "Oh, well, that person apologized/resigned/welcomed an investigation so they're clearly bad while our guy lied, victim blamed or deflected so clearly he's an upstanding citizen." Please do not in any way interpret that as me saying that victims should be silenced. I'm just currently stewing about this harmful double standard. Well I don't see any of the liberal guys accused saying "yep, I did it. I harassed that lady alright and now it's time for me to resign." It's all been "well I thought they were into me" or "I don't remember that thing but I'm sorry that the lady feels badly about it." They've all been fired so far as I can tell. And the welcoming a Congressional investigation is a bunch of BS. Like yes, I'm pissed that Trump was elected and Moore probably will be too, and I'm frustrated there seem to be no consequences there. But really, there have been no consequences so far for any politicians, regardless of party. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 13:50:18 GMT -6
dc2london I have a similar fear. I feel like the lesson being learned here is that if you apologize/admit wrong-doing then you lose your job and your position, and if you deny deny deny then no one can "prove" it. I think that's certainly the lesson POTUS learned and why he's now backpedaling on his own previous admissions. It's a dangerous, slippery slope. I am scared that pretty soon more and more people are going to start turning on accusers and questioning their credibility. I think Moore, if he is re-elected, is going to really reinforce that message. ETA I see @juliagulia covered this.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 29, 2017 13:52:05 GMT -6
my fear right now is that the narrative going forward will become "liberal journalists and politicians are all sexual predators and deviants." Many (unfortunately, I can't say "most") have a policy of always believing the accuser and the Democratic party as well as "liberal" media organizations have chosen to take action when misconduct comes to light. Meanwhile, Fox News is a known hotbed of sexual assault and harassment and it practically took an act of congress to get rid of O'Reilly and he STILL denies everything. Just like SHS tried to do, they're going to say, "Oh, well, that person apologized/resigned/welcomed an investigation so they're clearly bad while our guy lied, victim blamed or deflected so clearly he's an upstanding citizen." Please do not in any way interpret that as me saying that victims should be silenced. I'm just currently stewing about this harmful double standard. Well I don't see any of the liberal guys accused saying "yep, I did it. I harassed that lady alright and now it's time for me to resign." It's all been "well I thought they were into me" or "I don't remember that thing but I'm sorry that the lady feels badly about it." They've all been fired so far as I can tell. And the welcoming a Congressional investigation is a bunch of BS. Like yes, I'm pissed that Trump was elected and Moore probably will be too, and I'm frustrated there seem to be no consequences there. But really, there have been no consequences so far for any politicians, regardless of party. I think there will be. I think Franken will resign. I am not at all impressed by Leader Pelosi mumbling about due process on MTP though |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 13:54:29 GMT -6
Well I don't see any of the liberal guys accused saying "yep, I did it. I harassed that lady alright and now it's time for me to resign." It's all been "well I thought they were into me" or "I don't remember that thing but I'm sorry that the lady feels badly about it." They've all been fired so far as I can tell. And the welcoming a Congressional investigation is a bunch of BS. Like yes, I'm pissed that Trump was elected and Moore probably will be too, and I'm frustrated there seem to be no consequences there. But really, there have been no consequences so far for any politicians, regardless of party. I think there will be. I think Franken will resign. I am not at all impressed by Leader Pelosi mumbling about due process on MTP though I'm so mad at Congresswoman Pelosi right now. I'm not so sure Franken will resign, but I think Conyers will (has he and I missed it?) |
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 29, 2017 13:54:36 GMT -6
DON'T TOY WITH MY EMOTIONS JOHN
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 13:56:10 GMT -6
I don't remember all of the Ann Curry/Matt Lauer drama. I remember how awful her exit was but no details. That was a long time ago. Can anyone fill me in? I don't remember the details but I think it came out that Lauer didn't like her and managed to get her fired. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 13:56:25 GMT -6
I think there will be. I think Franken will resign. I am not at all impressed by Leader Pelosi mumbling about due process on MTP though I'm so mad at Congresswoman Pelosi right now. I'm not so sure Franken will resign, but I think Conyers will (has he and I missed it?) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 13:57:00 GMT -6
I don't remember all of the Ann Curry/Matt Lauer drama. I remember how awful her exit was but no details. That was a long time ago. Can anyone fill me in? basically it was reported that they had no relationship off air. they didn't talk AT ALL. He hated her and made things difficult for her. When his new contract was up, he negotiated that it was either him or her. So NBC signed him and she "resigned" from the today show. It was in 2012 and she had to tearfully say goodbye to the job she had been training for and waiting for for years (behind Katie Couric). they put her on other shows as a segment host, but that didn't last long. I don't think she has been in the public eye since 2015. She got paid out of her contract, but no more work. |
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Nov 29, 2017 13:57:03 GMT -6
All the Trump voters I know are white, educated, upper middle class suburbanites. Do not think for a moment that they were misled or hanging on to hope that coal would make a comeback. They are Republicans who will always vote R because they believe it is better for their own pocketbooks, they genuinely don't care what happens to most outside of their own insular world, and they certainly don't believe they should pay for any of it. Trump's crazy base may be louder, but this is the true and plentiful Republican population who will continue to carry the party forward. Yes, this. I am surrounded by white educated middle class people who support this president or at least voted for him. That is why there is no push back from the GOP - these are their voters and they are not unhappy (at least not that I have heard/seen). Its very much this here. They may dislike him/his twittering but overall they think he is doing a great job. And they are all college educated professionals. |
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Post by adorebel on Nov 29, 2017 14:05:12 GMT -6
Yes, this. I am surrounded by white educated middle class people who support this president or at least voted for him. That is why there is no push back from the GOP - these are their voters and they are not unhappy (at least not that I have heard/seen). Its very much this here. They may dislike him/his twittering but overall they think he is doing a great job. And they are all college educated professionals. Accurate. I have family members on one side who are extremely poor, sexist, anti-immigrant Trump voters, I have solidly middle-class acquaintances who love his plain talk, and I have wealthier family friends who are Trump voters who no longer speak to my family members because we voted for Clinton. I know people of all those backgrounds who supported Clinton and Sanders, too. The motivating factor is not economics, as the halo of media attention around "white working-class men" would like us to think. It's authoritarianism, a thin grasp in their fingers of some power over others, over their perceived way of life being under threat. And it's sickening, because especially among the wealthier people I know, they are all people who were always obsessed with morality and decency and now apparently give no fucks about that as long as they can get their tax cut. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 14:08:09 GMT -6
Well if anything good comes out of this, it's that idiot WH officials are shooting the DOJ's case on the travel ban in the foot.
ETA: Okay, this was part of a longer quote that is a little different:
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JukEboX
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Post by JukEboX on Nov 29, 2017 14:12:29 GMT -6
I want this to happen so very much. But I have to remind myself that it's just for us. Nothing will change if it does. But I still want all that dirt exposed. my fear right now is that the narrative going forward will become "liberal journalists and politicians are all sexual predators and deviants." Many (unfortunately, I can't say "most") have a policy of always believing the accuser and the Democratic party as well as "liberal" media organizations have chosen to take action when misconduct comes to light. Meanwhile, Fox News is a known hotbed of sexual assault and harassment and it practically took an act of congress to get rid of O'Reilly and he STILL denies everything. Just like SHS tried to do, they're going to say, "Oh, well, that person apologized/resigned/welcomed an investigation so they're clearly bad while our guy lied, victim blamed or deflected so clearly he's an upstanding citizen." Please do not in any way interpret that as me saying that victims should be silenced. I'm just currently stewing about this harmful double standard. I can agree to this. I do have I guess a legal question. In most of these events the women coming forward were from many years ago. Statue of limitations has most likely run out and there is little to no evidence unless a rape kit, video evidence, or a witness can come forward. In many cases much of them will be called allegations. So other than being turned into a crappy looking person, is there anything that can be done to these people? I say people because the current narrative is that it isn't just men being the abuser. Charges can be filed because of limitations. But based on the fact that this can be a mentally draining and trying experience for the victim, should limitations be extended? I ask that because of the woman who accused Roy Moore of the sexual assault behind the restaurant 40 years ago. It may have taken 40 years but she finally had the strength to come forward.
So do many of these allegations still remain just that? With no charges? Just elected official who looks to be a creepy weirdo based on allegations in a society based on innocent until proven guilty? Guilty of something that without evidence can't be proven and just turns into a they said, they said scenario? This my inner struggle today because I really feel for the victims. It skeeves me out the enth degree that people can do this to other people. It just seems that for many it will just be words on paper and they may never see justice and that to me is just wrong. Just Totally wrong.
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Nov 29, 2017 14:19:35 GMT -6
my fear right now is that the narrative going forward will become "liberal journalists and politicians are all sexual predators and deviants." Many (unfortunately, I can't say "most") have a policy of always believing the accuser and the Democratic party as well as "liberal" media organizations have chosen to take action when misconduct comes to light. Meanwhile, Fox News is a known hotbed of sexual assault and harassment and it practically took an act of congress to get rid of O'Reilly and he STILL denies everything. Just like SHS tried to do, they're going to say, "Oh, well, that person apologized/resigned/welcomed an investigation so they're clearly bad while our guy lied, victim blamed or deflected so clearly he's an upstanding citizen." Please do not in any way interpret that as me saying that victims should be silenced. I'm just currently stewing about this harmful double standard. I can agree to this. I do have I guess a legal question. In most of these events the women coming forward were from many years ago. Statue of limitations has most likely run out and there is little to no evidence unless a rape kit, video evidence, or a witness can come forward. In many cases much of them will be called allegations. So other than being turned into a crappy looking person, is there anything that can be done to these people? I say people because the current narrative is that it isn't just men being the abuser. Charges can be filed because of limitations. But based on the fact that this can be a mentally draining and trying experience for the victim, should limitations be extended? I ask that because of the woman who accused Roy Moore of the sexual assault behind the restaurant 40 years ago. It may have taken 40 years but she finally had the strength to come forward.
So do many of these allegations still remain just that? With no charges? Just elected official who looks to be a creepy weirdo based on allegations in a society based on innocent until proven guilty? Guilty of something that without evidence can't be proven and just turns into a they said, they said scenario? This my inner struggle today because I really feel for the victims. It skeeves me out the enth degree that people can do this to other people. It just seems that for many it will just be words on paper and they may never see justice and that to me is just wrong. Just Totally wrong.
For starters lets do anyway with NDAs. Its silencing victims and allowing the perpetrator to continue without fear of exposure. |
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joelies
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Post by joelies on Nov 29, 2017 14:19:57 GMT -6
A few of the more right-leaning and/or conspiracy theorist men in my office were already talking about their concern that women are going to start using harassment and assault allegations as revenge. I interrupted their little pity party to point out that for decades, men have used harassment and assault to maintain their power and control, and to punish women who threatened it, so... They stopped talking and went back to work.
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Post by adorebel on Nov 29, 2017 14:25:17 GMT -6
I don't remember all of the Ann Curry/Matt Lauer drama. I remember how awful her exit was but no details. That was a long time ago. Can anyone fill me in? just laid out a whole timeline in the last two pages of the blinds thread if you want to check out her post history. Can you plz tell me what "blinds" are, as in "celebrity blinds"? Am I new? I even googled it and I'm stumped.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 14:27:43 GMT -6
angelashly just laid out a whole timeline in the last two pages of the blinds thread if you want to check out her post history. Can you plz tell me what "blinds" are, as in "celebrity blinds"? Am I new? I even googled it and I'm stumped. It started out with a website that does celebrity blind items where they state celebrity gossip without a name attached but with hints. The guy who does the website reveals who some of the items are about 2x a year. Now it's just kind of an ongoing celebrity gossip thread but I think Cher might still post new blind items. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 14:29:34 GMT -6
Fucking Corker. This is what his trigger BS has started.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 29, 2017 14:36:57 GMT -6
The sad part is that, no, in most cases there aren't universal, hard and fast consequences for perpetrators of sexual assault and harassment. I think many democrat elected officials would lose their seats but I can't even say that with certainty.
I'm pretty sure neither Matt Lauer nor Kevin Spacey will ever work again, which is something I guess.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 29, 2017 14:37:33 GMT -6
Can victims file civil suits?
Although then they are subjecting themselves to scrutiny which is shitty.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 14:38:41 GMT -6
I know we had a serious convo about this earlier but I think I've gone over the brink because I can't stop laughing at it.
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