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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 19:07:42 GMT -6
I know it's very early but some of the things potential jurors have said plus the defense trying to not let jurors know he had a permit to carry and saying his permit wasn't lawful because he didn't state that he smoked pot.
It's making me nervous.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on May 31, 2017 20:24:10 GMT -6
I know it's very early but some of the things potential jurors have said plus the defense trying to not let jurors know he had a permit to carry and saying his permit wasn't lawful because he didn't state that he smoked pot. It's making me nervous. ugh. I hope the worry is premature. I'm trying to stay away from news reports but for this podcast.
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budders
Amethyst
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Post by budders on May 31, 2017 20:35:00 GMT -6
Thanks for the tag, I'll download this for the ride to work tomorrow!
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Post by leatherpants on Jun 1, 2017 20:35:22 GMT -6
I listened to all 4 episodes today. I interpret 3 really clear, complicated factors in play here. Systemic racism - the percentage of black people who are pulled over for traffic stops was just mind boggling. I know people can speak on this so much better and more educated than I can. The offices absolute lack of ability to de-escalate or rather, manage his own emotions in that scenario prior to the shooting is embarrassing. I've had a long standing theory about police vs social workers in tough spots that was pretty much confirmed listening to the prosecutors breakdown of the dash cam. That and Diamonds video of course when he's so clearly freaking the fuck out afterwards.
And the last one - which I'll probably struggle to articulate clearly - is the effects of living in a place where citizens carrying firearms is accepted. I'm not victim blaming here. He was carrying legally and it was almost a moot point except the presence of firearms in any situation heightens sensations of fear and panic and increases the likelihood of "I better shoot before you do" urgency. And clearly, back to point 2, the officer was not managing in any rational sense.
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Post by leatherpants on Jun 1, 2017 20:37:03 GMT -6
Oh that's long. Anyhow, those were just my initial thoughts on it today. Episode 3 was especially rough to listen to.
I think the very fact that he is freaking the fuck out after the shooting is a clear indication of knowing he and he alone fucked up without reason and hopefully leads to his conviction.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Jun 2, 2017 7:14:06 GMT -6
I've now listened to all four episodes. Hearing the second by second recap of the traffic stop floored me. There was no time to think, the officer made no attempt to slow down. Especially after learning how long it took him to calm down after the close call with getting hit by a car (13 minutes!), he was totally unfit to deal with the stress of the job.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Jun 2, 2017 7:26:06 GMT -6
As for the gun part, my knee-jerk reaction is to say that having a gun is part of the problem. But I don't know that it would've made a difference or not in the case. The officer was so jumpy and incapable of using critical thinking. That's such a major character flaw.
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loorin
Bronze
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Post by loorin on Jun 2, 2017 7:51:09 GMT -6
As for the gun part, my knee-jerk reaction is to say that having a gun is part of the problem. But I don't know that it would've made a difference or not in the case. The officer was so jumpy and incapable of using critical thinking. That's such a major character flaw. Either way, I would guess that there is training in place for the officer for when there is a gun that he didn't use. For example, when Philando stated he had a gun, the officer just kept saying "don't reach for it, don't reach for it." I feel like that can't be what he was trained to do? It seems like this could have been avoided had he either taken the time to ask where the weapon was or asked Philando to get out of the car so that he (the officer) could secure the weapon to make sure every stayed safe. Based on the reaction to almost getting hit by a car, it doesn't surprise me that he reacted the way he did.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Jun 2, 2017 7:56:07 GMT -6
As for the gun part, my knee-jerk reaction is to say that having a gun is part of the problem. But I don't know that it would've made a difference or not in the case. The officer was so jumpy and incapable of using critical thinking. That's such a major character flaw. Either way, I would guess that there is training in place for the officer for when there is a gun that he didn't use. For example, when Philando stated he had a gun, the officer just kept saying "don't reach for it, don't reach for it." I feel like that can't be what he was trained to do? It seems like this could have been avoided had he either taken the time to ask where the weapon was or asked Philando to get out of the car so that he (the officer) could secure the weapon to make sure every stayed safe. Based on the reaction to almost getting hit by a car, it doesn't surprise me that he reacted the way he did. I totally agree. The officer asked for ID. And then he freaked about a gun and lost all ability to process information. I hope he's convicted of all charges.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Jun 2, 2017 8:06:06 GMT -6
This in unrelated to the Castile case, but it's a story of another black motorist encountering the police. It took me a while to catch my breath after listening to this story. It's 10 minutes long and it gave me insight into how hard wide the gulf between POC and police who are meant to serve all people can be. snapjudgment.org/power-mouths-occupied
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joelies
Sapphire
You must chill
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Post by joelies on Jun 2, 2017 8:48:54 GMT -6
swellist , I feel like it goes even deeper than "they deserve it." Given that a majority of the shootings are black men, it's a fight against the automatic racial stereotype of the African American male as a scary thug. Even if they didn't deserve it, they are menacing figures, and obviously the police were threatened by the intimidating presence. That's what's so gross about it. The "he wasn't in a gang" and "he had a job" is an attempt to say "He isn't scary or threatening." Adn "his life was worthwhile". It's depressing as hell but face it, it's easier to ignore these shootings when you convince yourself that they're just thugs who probably deserved it. They don't see themself or their brother or father in these men, so they don't care. They don't matter. I had this talk with my husband about international travel a week or so ago. One of my coworkers was telling me about an upcoming trip to Dubai. I was telling my husband about it and he made a comment about it not being a particularly safe place to go as an American woman. It turned into us discussing if it's somehow "safer" for a black American woman than a white one - would you be less of an obvious target? But ultimately if she went and something happened to her, it'd garner a passing mention on the news. If I went and something happened to me, there'd be nationwide outrage. I look like everyone's sister or best friend, so I get to matter. It's sickening but it's reality.
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joelies
Sapphire
You must chill
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Post by joelies on Jun 2, 2017 8:54:03 GMT -6
As for the gun part, my knee-jerk reaction is to say that having a gun is part of the problem. But I don't know that it would've made a difference or not in the case. The officer was so jumpy and incapable of using critical thinking. That's such a major character flaw. I get what you're saying, but how many officers have shot unarmed men because they *thought* they were reaching for a weapon? Why would someone warn you ahead of time if they were going to pull a gun on you? That makes no sense. I completely agree with you that the officer had no business with a gun and a shield. He was in no way equipped to handle such a benign situation.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Jun 2, 2017 8:57:38 GMT -6
As for the gun part, my knee-jerk reaction is to say that having a gun is part of the problem. But I don't know that it would've made a difference or not in the case. The officer was so jumpy and incapable of using critical thinking. That's such a major character flaw. I get what you're saying, but how many officers have shot unarmed men because they *thought* they were reaching for a weapon? Why would someone warn you ahead of time if they were going to pull a gun on you? That makes no sense. I completely agree with you that the officer had no business with a gun and a shield. He was in no way equipped to handle such a benign situation. yes, a 100 times yes. I didn't use enough words - I'm not saying that in particular Philando having a gun was a problem. It's a bigger issue to me - that there's even the potential of a person having a gun. Officers are going into innocuous situations, and some of them are instantly assuming the worst - that there is a gun present and their life is in danger. If guns were less prevalent in the US, I would hope that the immediate assumption that someone has a gun and is threatening the life of the officer would go away.
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joelies
Sapphire
You must chill
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Post by joelies on Jun 2, 2017 9:00:39 GMT -6
I would hope so, too, brux. I'm not sure it would make POC any safer during interactions with police, but who knows.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Jun 2, 2017 9:03:02 GMT -6
I would hope so, too, brux . I'm not sure it would make POC any safer during interactions with police, but who knows. I don't think it would either. But it seems like it would be easier to indict and convict officers if they didn't get to fall back on saying they felt their lives were in danger. And then by convicting officers, I'd hope that we'd finally snowball into creating solutions to fix a broken system. I'm just dreaming a dream.
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budders
Amethyst
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Post by budders on Jun 2, 2017 15:54:56 GMT -6
I listened to the first four episodes over the last two days. The podcast is really well done; the story was very well laid out and the pacing is great.
I agree with everything I have read here so far. Yanez was too easily heightened and not able to think clearly in high-stress situations. As PP stated, he handled the interaction with Castile about his gun in absolutely the wrong way. He immediately went to an 11 instead of calming working his way through disarming Castile. Even his reactions after the fact, yelling and keeping the gun trained on them while Castile bled out and his gf and her 4 year old (!!!!!!!) had to watch that happen, were just so upsetting.
I also read some articles and watched the FB video that Diamond had shot (I'd never seen it before). Yanez's comments about Castile looking like someone who would commit a robbery/be a troublemaker before pulling him over are definite indicators that prejudice and racism were at play. I also think that Diamond's video played a huge role in getting people protesting/demonstrating and getting Yanez charged.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Jun 2, 2017 20:07:48 GMT -6
I watched the video last summer on the morning of July 7th not really even knowing what I was seeing. I couldn't believe it was real.
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cosmic
Silver
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Post by cosmic on Jun 2, 2017 20:29:57 GMT -6
I remember the facebook live video. This story haunted me. I had to take a break from the news for awhile after that. I'll check out that podcast if I have a chance.
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Post by marsinvestigations on Jun 4, 2017 6:13:51 GMT -6
Thanks for the tag brux. I listened to the available episodes the other day. It is such a tragic story and listening to the episode where they did the second by second breakdown of the stop was so heartbreaking but also really interesting. It is very telling to me that the officer that was called as backup never even touched his firearm. So, to me, that means Yanez went from zero to shooting so quickly that the other officer didn't even have time to react and/or he saw no threat. Either of those show how incredibly fucked up yanez actions were.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 10:42:22 GMT -6
The judge ruled the gun permit in. I feel a tiny bit of relief.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Jun 5, 2017 12:53:17 GMT -6
The judge ruled the gun permit in. I feel a tiny bit of relief. ooh, thanks for the update. I'm a bit nervous because the permit is irrelevant to what Yanez reasonably knew because he didn't ask nor was told about the permit prior to shooting, but I hope its existence helps the jury get more comfortable about a black man having a gun and that he's not to blame. I just listened to the jury selection episode of the podcast. that stuff is so interesting, trying to predict peoples' biases.
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mrsbliz
Silver
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Post by mrsbliz on Jun 5, 2017 13:16:47 GMT -6
The judge ruled the gun permit in. I feel a tiny bit of relief. ooh, thanks for the update. I'm a bit nervous because the permit is irrelevant to what Yanez reasonably knew because he didn't ask nor was told about the permit prior to shooting, but I hope its existence helps the jury get more comfortable about a black man having a gun and that he's not to blame. I just listened to the jury selection episode of the podcast. that stuff is so interesting, trying to predict peoples' biases. Didn't Philando make it known that he had a permit to carry? I thought I remember it from one of the podcasts. That was what almost set him off, or how it appeared from what it sounded like on the podcasts. I'm really enjoying the layout of the podcasts.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Jun 5, 2017 13:25:10 GMT -6
ooh, thanks for the update. I'm a bit nervous because the permit is irrelevant to what Yanez reasonably knew because he didn't ask nor was told about the permit prior to shooting, but I hope its existence helps the jury get more comfortable about a black man having a gun and that he's not to blame. I just listened to the jury selection episode of the podcast. that stuff is so interesting, trying to predict peoples' biases. Didn't Philando make it known that he had a permit to carry? I thought I remember it from one of the podcasts. That was what almost set him off, or how it appeared from what it sounded like on the podcasts. I'm really enjoying the layout of the podcasts. from what I understand, Philando said something like "I need to tell you I have a gun" but wasn't asked/didn't get a chance to say he had a permit.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Jun 5, 2017 13:28:36 GMT -6
unrelated, but I'm happy to see you here mrsbliz!
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mrsbliz
Silver
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Post by mrsbliz on Jun 5, 2017 13:32:38 GMT -6
Oh gotcha. Now that you say that yes I remember that.
Thanks, I'm trying to keep up!
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mrsbliz
Silver
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Post by mrsbliz on Jun 5, 2017 13:39:03 GMT -6
brux, Was this a podcast created just for this trial? Or do these hosts have other ones that you know of? I'm trying to find some that I can listen to at work. Any ideas where to look?
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Jun 5, 2017 13:40:27 GMT -6
brux , Was this a podcast created just for this trial? Or do these hosts have other ones that you know of? I'm trying to find some that I can listen to at work. Any ideas where to look? this podcast is just for this trial, done by reporters at Minnesota Public Radio. But we *just* had a thread about podcasts with lots of good suggestions. I'll bump it and tag you
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 15:28:26 GMT -6
brux, I think his having a permit provides some context to his volunteering that he had a gun. In case they try to say he was angrily threatening that he had a gun or something.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 17:03:35 GMT -6
Didn't Philando make it known that he had a permit to carry? I thought I remember it from one of the podcasts. That was what almost set him off, or how it appeared from what it sounded like on the podcasts. I'm really enjoying the layout of the podcasts. from what I understand, Philando said something like "I need to tell you I have a gun" but wasn't asked/didn't get a chance to say he had a permit. p Yanez did not let him finish any of his sentences after he said he had a gun. I also feel like in a state that has concealed carry permits the assumption should be made that the person is legally permitted to carry when they say they are carrying. (Unless there is evidence to the contrary). It's one of the biggest reasons I'm against concealed carry permits. It makes it much harder for law enforcement to do their jobs.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 21:33:59 GMT -6
I'm feeling very uneasy about the fact that 21 out of 23 potential jurors are white. Just 2 black and no other races represented. I mean, I get that those are the demographics there but damn, that's hard for me to comprehend.
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