A Thread about Domestic Violence
Jul 24, 2024 13:30:49 GMT -6
Post by CestLaVie on Jul 24, 2024 13:30:49 GMT -6
Hey everyone, I wanted to make a post because I have learned a crap ton in the last few years that might reach the right audience randomly if I post it.
If it isn't relevant that's ok too, just wanted to reach out in case there is anyone in the same boat I was in a few years ago.
Warning because this is long lol.
1. If you are in a DV relationship there is a really good chance that you will not recognize that. Calling it DV will feel uncomfortable. Calling it abuse will feel uncomfortable. You will probably fee like you are lying or exaggerating or being dramatic. This is super normal and doesn't reflect reality. I had a really strong feeling that my relationship was well beyond normal, but I also would have bristled at saying DV. It's taken me being out for 2 years to fully be able to say it and know that it's the truth.
2. Some things that might help you see it for what it is/red flags that you might not realize:
• Long, circular arguments where you are trying to explain your feelings or thoughts and it’s like they have not spent a day on this earth and cannot understand it no matter what you say.
• Physicality that is passed off as a joke. A lot of the physical abuse that happened to me was done with the undertone that it was a joke and I was very uptight and dramatic. Like he would dig his knuckles into my ribs and then when I said “ow” he would say “you’re so dramatic I can’t even joke around with you.”
• Things that ‘count’ as physical abuse: locking you in places, barring you from leaving with their body or a door, shoving.
• Isolation from family and friends does not always look like “you can’t go there.” While I did get that sometimes, the majority of the isolation tactics used were more emotional/mental. Punishments like silent treatment or making everything difficult. It made it so that it didn’t even get to the point of me asking to spend time with other people because it was such an crapshoot.
• “Pranks” that aren’t funny. A lot of abusers are not stupid. They know they need plausible deniability. A ton of the stuff done to me was, on it’s own, not extremely crazy (at least in my mind) until you consider the intent behind it or the pattern and consistency of it. For example, being mad because I wouldn’t invite him to my company golf day (where no spouses were invited), so I woke up to my golf clubs hidden all over the yard, in trees and on the roof. Sometimes he would relay these stories to others to have them in on the joke and everyone giggling would reinforce the idea that my sensitivity was the problem. However outside people had no idea what was really happening.
• Constantly trying to fix things. I was always optimizing. Self help books, schedules, lists, I was finding way after way after way to improve myself constantly but was never reaching an acceptable level.
• CONFUSION. This is by far the biggest sign for me. I was confused about everything. I ruminated about everything. I made posts on here about How do you divide the domestic labour? How do I get better at this? How do I get better at that? I was confused on why I didn’t seem to understand how to not press the triggers for his anger. I was confused about my reactions. I second-guessed everything.
3. An abusive partner will never admit to it, unless they see it as a means to pulling you back in. They truly don’t believe their behavior is a problem. My ex constantly said he “hates to have to do this stuff but it does work”. It reinforced his belief that he was fine to continue.
4. You may try to leave several times. And this might not look like running out the door. I made about 4 serious attempts before I actually got out, each time getting progressively closer. The first attempt looked like a conversation where I asked for a divorce. I got sucked back in. The second attempt was the same. The third attempt I knew I needed help. I reached out. I had a thread here under an AE. I called lawyers and got consults. I called a women’s shelter. I went to my parents house. It only lasted 3 days. It was over the course of Canada Day long weekend and I couldn’t reach any DV resources and I just folded. The fourth time, was 2 days before Christmas and we separated within the same house. I could only hold out for about 4 days again. The 5th and final time, I ended up on my parents doorstep at 11pm on a Monday and never went back. The people who had no idea what was going on couldn’t understand it. It seemed rash, crazy, impulsive. I left all my belongings behind. That seemed crazy too.
5. If you fail to leave, ITS OK. I joined the divorce board after attempt 3, and shared a bit of my story. When I went back to my ex I was humiliated. Embarrassed. I knew I looked stupid and it was a bad decision. However I had a number of people reach out to me and convince me to keep posting on the divorce board even though I was saying everything was fine again. They knew it wasn’t, and I would likely be back. Looking back this allowed to me really remove the cognitive dissonance that had been clouding my judgement. I didn’t have to do a big scary thing, but I also was starting to acknowledge stuff that was happening to me in real time, out loud, to people. If you have people in your life experiencing DV and have the opportunity to be this person for them, it is really important and a huge gift to offer.
6. This is VERY important if you are in this situation. Do not propose counselling. Do not have him attend an abuser program. Studies show that these are largely ineffective and that they only help him to tailer his manipulation strategies to be harder to see. The only thing that has been proven to show any sort of effect on abuser’s behaviour is legal consequences. It seems harsh but it is the truth. Get into individual counselling. Be patient with yourself.
7. Get a counsellor that specializes in DV, and that can challenge some of your thought patterns.
8. Document things. Get a secret email, and send details of events that occur (from that email, to that email.) I did this several times and then when trying to fix things I would feel like in order to genuinely feel like I am working on it, I would delete all the emails. Don’t do this. Just leave them there. If everything gets better you can forget the account exists. If it doesn’t you need that information. When you discuss events, use dates, times, witnesses, and add photos. For example I had water dumped on my while I was sleeping. I took a photo of the wet couch and my wet hair. It’s not foolproof and alone doesn’t do much but if you have documentation of specific events over time, it is really helpful. I documented conversations as well, if something particularly bad was said. If the kids witness it, note that as well. There was one singular email from 2018 that I had saved from him that settled the entire PO trial for me. Because of a single sentence he wrote in it. You don’t know what is going to be the most helpful in the future, so document as much as you can. Doing something with it is a future you problem and you can stay here in the documenting phase as long as you need to.
9. You will second guess yourself the entire time. You will double check to make sure you’re not crazy. It’s 2 years later and when I was telling my sister that he appealed the child support to try not to pay, I immediately thought, what if I just made that up? And I could not relax until I found the letter from the government informing me of the appeal. This will happen over and over. It will become less and less over time.
10. Start to compile a list. Maybe the notes of your phone if that is safe. I had one called Why I Left. And I started listing the very worst things that had happened to me. Objectively bad things in bullet point – and tons of them. So that when I second-guessed myself I could read the list and be like yes this is illegal. Yes, this is bad. No I am not crazy, a normal person would think this is bad. I would look at photos, screenshots of texts messages.
11. If you need to squirrel money away, start to document everything and save. This is not a betrayal. This is the safest way to do this. You can get $20 or $40 cash back every grocery trip (if you have it available), or buy gift cards if you need an idea for keeping it undetected. Trust me when I say, I did not think my safety was a concern when I left, even though I knew of things that had happened. I didn’t see it.
12. Sexual violence is physical violence. For some reason I held on to the fact that I didn’t get punched out ever as proof that it was *only* emotional abuse. Yet when I went through the MOSAIC threat assessment someone here suggested, my results said that I was in danger of being killed, taking in all the risk factors. I was in the highest risk category.
13. If there are legal consequences, or you get a Protection Order, you will feel intense guilt. It will feel as though you have personally brought all of this on and done it to your children. This is not true, but the feelings are very valid and they stick with you. It took me months and months to feel comfortable with the decision to apply for a Protection Order. I also needed validation from a lot of outside sources (the kids’ counsellor saying that they had planned to call CFS, the school calling CFS, etc).
14. If you do decide to leave, find a lawyer that is extremely well versed in DV. I interviewed 3 lawyers and looking back, if I hadn’t chose the one I did, it would have been a disaster. My lawyer has stood strong on a ton of issues I did not have the backbone to. She has been right about every single one though, and I cringe thinking about if I had just given in to this stuff because I was traumatized.
15. If you plan to leave, get things you need out of the house first. Birth certificates, passports, journals if you write journals. If you don’t plan it, its ok, leave anyway. All the documents are re-orderable. It’s annoying but its ok. Leave at any point that you feel you have the nerve to leave. That is the single most important thing that you can do.
16. I expected things to stop once I left. I don’t know why, but I just did. It got 10x worse. I was almost run off the road. I was chased and my door opened while driving. I was driven around for 4 hours. The kids were missing school on his days. He had our 10 year old drive down the highway in a car. He forgot the 7 year old in another town and went home to bed, and only realized when I got his mom to have his brother go wake him up. He sent a photo of my daughter holding a s*x toy to me when he had the kids. He left pages of handwritten poems in my car. All I can say is it got fucking crazy and immediately and I did not expect that. Do not base what they might to on what they have done in the past, because truly, you do not know their limit. Protect yourself even if you feel crazy or dramatic doing so.
17. I am an incredibly optimistic person. I am also empathetic. I could see where the abuse stemmed from and I felt like he just needed help. But you can’t change that. And if the entitlement is the way they think, it will come out in all of their behaviour, regardless of therapy, help, empathy. If they change it will be of their own volition and take a really really long time. It is not in your best interest. Wish them well and go.
18. Lastly if you made it through all of this, whew haha. Your life will be so so so much better if you leave. Even if you are a single mom. I am a single mom, he tries to make my life difficult at every single opportunity, and it is still much much easier than it was in the relationship. Doing everything alone is still easier than doing everything in the relationship with his tantrums and behavior exhausting me. You can do this. Reach out for support. Take the first step. Tell someone what is happening honestly.
Resources:
(and last note – be careful accessing this stuff. You don’t want to tip your hand or put yourself in a dangerous position.)
Journal
This is the best thing I did for my own awareness. I started it before I left and my tipping point came during the completion of this journal.
Trauma Bond Recovery Journal – Lisa Sonni
Podcasts
Why She Stayed
- Anything where Lisa Sonni was a guest.
Books:
Why does he do that – Lundy Bancroft
Healing from Hidden Abuse – Shannon Thomas
When Dad Hurts Mom: Helping your children heal the wounds of witnessing abuse – Lundy Bancroft (really good, even if no physical abuse is happening.)
Finally I will leave you with a quote posted on a day I was struggling:
"I believed that if I kept digging I would find water. And sometimes I did. Just enough to sustain me. And when you’re dying of thirst, that water is the best water you’ll ever drink. When you’re alienated from your friends, there’s no one to tell you that there’s a drinking fountain 20 feet away. And when your self-worth reaches such depths after years of being treated like you’re worthless, you might find you think you deserve that sort of treatment, and no one else will love you."
If it isn't relevant that's ok too, just wanted to reach out in case there is anyone in the same boat I was in a few years ago.
Warning because this is long lol.
1. If you are in a DV relationship there is a really good chance that you will not recognize that. Calling it DV will feel uncomfortable. Calling it abuse will feel uncomfortable. You will probably fee like you are lying or exaggerating or being dramatic. This is super normal and doesn't reflect reality. I had a really strong feeling that my relationship was well beyond normal, but I also would have bristled at saying DV. It's taken me being out for 2 years to fully be able to say it and know that it's the truth.
2. Some things that might help you see it for what it is/red flags that you might not realize:
• Long, circular arguments where you are trying to explain your feelings or thoughts and it’s like they have not spent a day on this earth and cannot understand it no matter what you say.
• Physicality that is passed off as a joke. A lot of the physical abuse that happened to me was done with the undertone that it was a joke and I was very uptight and dramatic. Like he would dig his knuckles into my ribs and then when I said “ow” he would say “you’re so dramatic I can’t even joke around with you.”
• Things that ‘count’ as physical abuse: locking you in places, barring you from leaving with their body or a door, shoving.
• Isolation from family and friends does not always look like “you can’t go there.” While I did get that sometimes, the majority of the isolation tactics used were more emotional/mental. Punishments like silent treatment or making everything difficult. It made it so that it didn’t even get to the point of me asking to spend time with other people because it was such an crapshoot.
• “Pranks” that aren’t funny. A lot of abusers are not stupid. They know they need plausible deniability. A ton of the stuff done to me was, on it’s own, not extremely crazy (at least in my mind) until you consider the intent behind it or the pattern and consistency of it. For example, being mad because I wouldn’t invite him to my company golf day (where no spouses were invited), so I woke up to my golf clubs hidden all over the yard, in trees and on the roof. Sometimes he would relay these stories to others to have them in on the joke and everyone giggling would reinforce the idea that my sensitivity was the problem. However outside people had no idea what was really happening.
• Constantly trying to fix things. I was always optimizing. Self help books, schedules, lists, I was finding way after way after way to improve myself constantly but was never reaching an acceptable level.
• CONFUSION. This is by far the biggest sign for me. I was confused about everything. I ruminated about everything. I made posts on here about How do you divide the domestic labour? How do I get better at this? How do I get better at that? I was confused on why I didn’t seem to understand how to not press the triggers for his anger. I was confused about my reactions. I second-guessed everything.
3. An abusive partner will never admit to it, unless they see it as a means to pulling you back in. They truly don’t believe their behavior is a problem. My ex constantly said he “hates to have to do this stuff but it does work”. It reinforced his belief that he was fine to continue.
4. You may try to leave several times. And this might not look like running out the door. I made about 4 serious attempts before I actually got out, each time getting progressively closer. The first attempt looked like a conversation where I asked for a divorce. I got sucked back in. The second attempt was the same. The third attempt I knew I needed help. I reached out. I had a thread here under an AE. I called lawyers and got consults. I called a women’s shelter. I went to my parents house. It only lasted 3 days. It was over the course of Canada Day long weekend and I couldn’t reach any DV resources and I just folded. The fourth time, was 2 days before Christmas and we separated within the same house. I could only hold out for about 4 days again. The 5th and final time, I ended up on my parents doorstep at 11pm on a Monday and never went back. The people who had no idea what was going on couldn’t understand it. It seemed rash, crazy, impulsive. I left all my belongings behind. That seemed crazy too.
5. If you fail to leave, ITS OK. I joined the divorce board after attempt 3, and shared a bit of my story. When I went back to my ex I was humiliated. Embarrassed. I knew I looked stupid and it was a bad decision. However I had a number of people reach out to me and convince me to keep posting on the divorce board even though I was saying everything was fine again. They knew it wasn’t, and I would likely be back. Looking back this allowed to me really remove the cognitive dissonance that had been clouding my judgement. I didn’t have to do a big scary thing, but I also was starting to acknowledge stuff that was happening to me in real time, out loud, to people. If you have people in your life experiencing DV and have the opportunity to be this person for them, it is really important and a huge gift to offer.
6. This is VERY important if you are in this situation. Do not propose counselling. Do not have him attend an abuser program. Studies show that these are largely ineffective and that they only help him to tailer his manipulation strategies to be harder to see. The only thing that has been proven to show any sort of effect on abuser’s behaviour is legal consequences. It seems harsh but it is the truth. Get into individual counselling. Be patient with yourself.
7. Get a counsellor that specializes in DV, and that can challenge some of your thought patterns.
8. Document things. Get a secret email, and send details of events that occur (from that email, to that email.) I did this several times and then when trying to fix things I would feel like in order to genuinely feel like I am working on it, I would delete all the emails. Don’t do this. Just leave them there. If everything gets better you can forget the account exists. If it doesn’t you need that information. When you discuss events, use dates, times, witnesses, and add photos. For example I had water dumped on my while I was sleeping. I took a photo of the wet couch and my wet hair. It’s not foolproof and alone doesn’t do much but if you have documentation of specific events over time, it is really helpful. I documented conversations as well, if something particularly bad was said. If the kids witness it, note that as well. There was one singular email from 2018 that I had saved from him that settled the entire PO trial for me. Because of a single sentence he wrote in it. You don’t know what is going to be the most helpful in the future, so document as much as you can. Doing something with it is a future you problem and you can stay here in the documenting phase as long as you need to.
9. You will second guess yourself the entire time. You will double check to make sure you’re not crazy. It’s 2 years later and when I was telling my sister that he appealed the child support to try not to pay, I immediately thought, what if I just made that up? And I could not relax until I found the letter from the government informing me of the appeal. This will happen over and over. It will become less and less over time.
10. Start to compile a list. Maybe the notes of your phone if that is safe. I had one called Why I Left. And I started listing the very worst things that had happened to me. Objectively bad things in bullet point – and tons of them. So that when I second-guessed myself I could read the list and be like yes this is illegal. Yes, this is bad. No I am not crazy, a normal person would think this is bad. I would look at photos, screenshots of texts messages.
11. If you need to squirrel money away, start to document everything and save. This is not a betrayal. This is the safest way to do this. You can get $20 or $40 cash back every grocery trip (if you have it available), or buy gift cards if you need an idea for keeping it undetected. Trust me when I say, I did not think my safety was a concern when I left, even though I knew of things that had happened. I didn’t see it.
12. Sexual violence is physical violence. For some reason I held on to the fact that I didn’t get punched out ever as proof that it was *only* emotional abuse. Yet when I went through the MOSAIC threat assessment someone here suggested, my results said that I was in danger of being killed, taking in all the risk factors. I was in the highest risk category.
13. If there are legal consequences, or you get a Protection Order, you will feel intense guilt. It will feel as though you have personally brought all of this on and done it to your children. This is not true, but the feelings are very valid and they stick with you. It took me months and months to feel comfortable with the decision to apply for a Protection Order. I also needed validation from a lot of outside sources (the kids’ counsellor saying that they had planned to call CFS, the school calling CFS, etc).
14. If you do decide to leave, find a lawyer that is extremely well versed in DV. I interviewed 3 lawyers and looking back, if I hadn’t chose the one I did, it would have been a disaster. My lawyer has stood strong on a ton of issues I did not have the backbone to. She has been right about every single one though, and I cringe thinking about if I had just given in to this stuff because I was traumatized.
15. If you plan to leave, get things you need out of the house first. Birth certificates, passports, journals if you write journals. If you don’t plan it, its ok, leave anyway. All the documents are re-orderable. It’s annoying but its ok. Leave at any point that you feel you have the nerve to leave. That is the single most important thing that you can do.
16. I expected things to stop once I left. I don’t know why, but I just did. It got 10x worse. I was almost run off the road. I was chased and my door opened while driving. I was driven around for 4 hours. The kids were missing school on his days. He had our 10 year old drive down the highway in a car. He forgot the 7 year old in another town and went home to bed, and only realized when I got his mom to have his brother go wake him up. He sent a photo of my daughter holding a s*x toy to me when he had the kids. He left pages of handwritten poems in my car. All I can say is it got fucking crazy and immediately and I did not expect that. Do not base what they might to on what they have done in the past, because truly, you do not know their limit. Protect yourself even if you feel crazy or dramatic doing so.
17. I am an incredibly optimistic person. I am also empathetic. I could see where the abuse stemmed from and I felt like he just needed help. But you can’t change that. And if the entitlement is the way they think, it will come out in all of their behaviour, regardless of therapy, help, empathy. If they change it will be of their own volition and take a really really long time. It is not in your best interest. Wish them well and go.
18. Lastly if you made it through all of this, whew haha. Your life will be so so so much better if you leave. Even if you are a single mom. I am a single mom, he tries to make my life difficult at every single opportunity, and it is still much much easier than it was in the relationship. Doing everything alone is still easier than doing everything in the relationship with his tantrums and behavior exhausting me. You can do this. Reach out for support. Take the first step. Tell someone what is happening honestly.
Resources:
(and last note – be careful accessing this stuff. You don’t want to tip your hand or put yourself in a dangerous position.)
Journal
This is the best thing I did for my own awareness. I started it before I left and my tipping point came during the completion of this journal.
Trauma Bond Recovery Journal – Lisa Sonni
Podcasts
Why She Stayed
- Anything where Lisa Sonni was a guest.
Books:
Why does he do that – Lundy Bancroft
Healing from Hidden Abuse – Shannon Thomas
When Dad Hurts Mom: Helping your children heal the wounds of witnessing abuse – Lundy Bancroft (really good, even if no physical abuse is happening.)
Finally I will leave you with a quote posted on a day I was struggling:
"I believed that if I kept digging I would find water. And sometimes I did. Just enough to sustain me. And when you’re dying of thirst, that water is the best water you’ll ever drink. When you’re alienated from your friends, there’s no one to tell you that there’s a drinking fountain 20 feet away. And when your self-worth reaches such depths after years of being treated like you’re worthless, you might find you think you deserve that sort of treatment, and no one else will love you."
