joy
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Post by joy on May 23, 2023 9:33:49 GMT -6
It’s masterful. These horribly rich, out of touch, not - serious people but they are all still abused children, grappling with their complicated feelings about their parents who let them down in the most fundamental ways and it’s utterly heartbreaking to watch. This 100%. There are no heroes on this show but none of them (or none of the core) are really 100% villain either. Well, maybe Logan was. I get that he was abused as a child too. I can't stand Ewan. At least the others show who they are - he's happy to keep his board seat and money flowing from Waystar, yet publicly be "so much better" than Logan. Even in the first season where because he's so worried about climate change, he has Greg drive 10 hours to pick him up, drive him 10 hours to his destination, drive 10 hours to take him back, and then drive 10 hours home. It's showboating. (Yes, I realize that is still better for the environment than 2 private jet trips, but 20 hours of wasteful driving is still substantial) So, I was very “rah rah Ewan” this episode, but just like everyone else in the show, he is complex and contradictory and hypocritical. As he only comes and goes, I forgot a lot of these details about him. Good reminder.
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claudia
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Post by claudia on May 23, 2023 9:58:51 GMT -6
Ewan also:
"My brother is a scourge of humanity and his leadership in this company is ruining the world."
Kendall:
"So you'll help me vote him out so we can put substantive changes in place?"
Ewan: "No, how disloyal of you to even suggest I would vote against my brother! I'm loyal to him."
(Now, if his objection had been that Kendall was an incompetent buffoon, fine. But to complain about his brother's leadership, but refuse to vote to change it, while also enjoying the spoils from the leadership just....
I know, I know.... every character is horrible.
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joy
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Post by joy on May 23, 2023 11:32:52 GMT -6
claudia - it’s complicated, though. I don’t know what else happened in their childhood, but they were two kids very close in age who experienced a lot of trauma together. It can lead to a lot of dissonance around what truths you can accept about another person and what you cannot. Ewan sees Logan’s faults loud and clear. But, at his heart, he will always be loyal to this brother because of past experiences that bound them together. I’ve seen this play out very similarly in real life between brothers with traumatic pasts so it sadly rings very true to me. This is why I love this show! The relationships and motivations and contradictions are so real.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on May 24, 2023 10:02:31 GMT -6
claudia - it’s complicated, though. I don’t know what else happened in their childhood, but they were two kids very close in age who experienced a lot of trauma together. It can lead to a lot of dissonance around what truths you can accept about another person and what you cannot. Ewan sees Logan’s faults loud and clear. But, at his heart, he will always be loyal to this brother because of past experiences that bound them together. I’ve seen this play out very similarly in real life between brothers with traumatic pasts so it sadly rings very true to me. This is why I love this show! The relationships and motivations and contradictions are so real. I think this is correct. I think Logan drove Ewan crazy, but Ewan felt very protective of him, nonetheless. I will never forget seeing Logan's back after he climbed out of the pool in New Mexico. And knowing now what we learned this week about his sister's death, I think Ewan is a fiercely protective brother. And it's an interesting foil to Caroline's three children with Logan who will throw each other under the bus without a thought.
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joy
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Post by joy on May 24, 2023 11:19:42 GMT -6
Tom is tired. So tired. I kept wondering why they were making that a point. No one else is tired like that. Think about the week that Kendall, Roman, Shiv and Connor had - flights across the country, flights to Sweden, backdoor meetings, a presidential election, a wedding, hosting a party, planning a funeral! None of the other siblings are tired. But Tom is falling over. Tom is not a Mattson, Gerri, or a Roy despite it all.
I had another random thing to point out but it escapes me now.
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Post by downwarddog on May 24, 2023 12:10:03 GMT -6
Tom is tired. So tired. I kept wondering why they were making that a point. No one else is tired like that. Think about the week that Kendall, Roman, Shiv and Connor had - flights across the country, flights to Sweden, backdoor meetings, a presidential election, a wedding, hosting a party, planning a funeral! None of the other siblings are tired. But Tom is falling over. Tom is not a Mattson, Gerri, or a Roy despite it all. I had another random thing to point out but it escapes me now. The only thing I can think is that Madsen said he could never see someone who sleeps well being a CEO. Maybe unrelated, but yeah, they definitely are driving home that Tom is sleepy.
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Bookshelves
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Post by Bookshelves on May 25, 2023 11:12:04 GMT -6
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beatch
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Post by beatch on May 28, 2023 12:45:47 GMT -6
I can't believe this is the last day! Here are two of my favorite Succession vids from Twitter. Seriously trying to figure out how the hell they wrap this up in one episode!
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beatch
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Post by beatch on May 28, 2023 12:53:11 GMT -6
Tom is tired. So tired. I kept wondering why they were making that a point. No one else is tired like that. Think about the week that Kendall, Roman, Shiv and Connor had - flights across the country, flights to Sweden, backdoor meetings, a presidential election, a wedding, hosting a party, planning a funeral! None of the other siblings are tired. But Tom is falling over. Tom is not a Mattson, Gerri, or a Roy despite it all. I had another random thing to point out but it escapes me now. Well tbh he is actually doing work. The rest of them are involved in sniping conversations but I'm pretty sure they are able to get some rest. He's the head of a network post-election that is coming under fire for their call; I doubt he has gotten any sleep at all. The Roys don't actually do the mechanics of the job. They have Jesses (well, until next week) and other people to do the actual work. This is not to say I respect Tom, who only has his role because of Shiv. But he is actually working at a network every day.
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joy
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Post by joy on May 28, 2023 13:31:25 GMT -6
Tonight is the night that I’ll finally have to face that Kendall isn’t going to redeem himself. He isn’t going to look around and say being CEO is not worth it and his kids deserve a better father.
Winning has never been about who becomes CEO. It is who gets away and breaks the generational trauma. By those stakes, Connor wins currently. Iverson and Sophie are winning with Rava in their life. I had really hoped for Kendall to win, too. He quit drugs, he had moments during the Mencken call where he looked like he may breakthrough… but, I do think my hopes for Kendall die tonight.
I’ll hang on to my 10% bit of hope, though.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on May 28, 2023 13:41:07 GMT -6
Tom is tired. So tired. I kept wondering why they were making that a point. No one else is tired like that. Think about the week that Kendall, Roman, Shiv and Connor had - flights across the country, flights to Sweden, backdoor meetings, a presidential election, a wedding, hosting a party, planning a funeral! None of the other siblings are tired. But Tom is falling over. Tom is not a Mattson, Gerri, or a Roy despite it all. I had another random thing to point out but it escapes me now. Well tbh he is actually doing work. The rest of them are involved in sniping conversations but I'm pretty sure they are able to get some rest. He's the head of a network post-election that is coming under fire for their call; I doubt he has gotten any sleep at all. The Roys don't actually do the mechanics of the job. They have Jesses (well, until next week) and other people to do the actual work. This is not to say I respect Tom, who only has his role because of Shiv. But he is actually working at a network every day. Also he was the one to find Logan, right? That would take a toll. Add on top of that the fact that he threw his lot entirely behind Logan, and now he could be tossed to the dogs. And his marriage is a mess. And he may be a father? And doing his actual job. And, and, and. That's nit to sympathize with him, he's an ass. But yeah, anyone in that situation is going to be exhausted.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on May 28, 2023 13:42:00 GMT -6
Honestly I hope Gerri just reports them all to the SEC and buys an island
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joy
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Post by joy on May 28, 2023 14:01:20 GMT -6
Honestly I hope Gerri just reports them all to the SEC and buys an island Karl is half in on a greek island already!
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beatch
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Post by beatch on May 28, 2023 14:34:21 GMT -6
Honestly I hope Gerri just reports them all to the SEC and buys an island That would probably be the most satisfying ending to me!
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on May 28, 2023 19:15:21 GMT -6
"New Jess! New Jess!" Lol
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on May 28, 2023 19:25:00 GMT -6
Sometimes I think Jesse Armstrong wrote this show so he could see just how much money HBO would sink into extravagant on-loxation filming in the name of authenticity
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on May 28, 2023 19:40:03 GMT -6
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on May 28, 2023 20:18:15 GMT -6
Holy hell that looked really painful for Keiran!!! Look at Mister Kendall becoming his father in the worst ways
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Post by dc2london on May 28, 2023 20:44:21 GMT -6
Ok based on first watch, I find this at least a mostly satisfying ending. This is the kind of ending this show, as I know it, would have. I hate when shows depart from their essence for the ending season or episode. I wanted more Connor and Gerri, but that would have been fan service, and that's not what this show is about. It was a very Succession ending. I enjoyed the callbacks, like Kendall at the water at sunset. And the sibling moments with their guards down.
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lizblue
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Post by lizblue on May 28, 2023 21:15:14 GMT -6
I think the siblings in the kitchen scene was partly redemptive but also made the bleak ending all that much worse. Their business is constantly disrupted by their being a family and their being a family is constantly disrupted by business. Forever more.
I liked it and am satisfied.
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joy
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Post by joy on May 28, 2023 21:22:48 GMT -6
Ugh.
Greg should have been fired for his fuckery so as to land exactly where he started.
I sincerely detest Tom so his win is blech.
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beatch
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Post by beatch on May 28, 2023 23:21:19 GMT -6
Ok based on first watch, I find this at least a mostly satisfying ending. This is the kind of ending this show, as I know it, would have. I hate when shows depart from their essence for the ending season or episode. I wanted more Connor and Gerri, but that would have been fan service, and that's not what this show is about. It was a very Succession ending. I enjoyed the callbacks, like Kendall at the water at sunset. And the sibling moments with their guards down. They were all constantly backstabbing each other so it felt true. Both satisfying and unsatisfying. Thinking back to the first episode of the season, they should have just stuck with their media thing. But they allowed themselves to get sucked in. In the end I agree with Logan - they are not serious people. And they all made off handsomely on the deal. GREAT SERIES. I will miss it! I already want to rewatch.
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rvasc
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Post by rvasc on May 29, 2023 6:33:02 GMT -6
beatch that is exactly what my H said: they are not serious people, just like Logan said.
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joy
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Post by joy on May 29, 2023 8:23:25 GMT -6
This “not serious people” thing is bothering me. Mattson is not a serious person - sending blood blocks to Ebba?! Mattson and Tom have fatal flaws just like Kendall. “Serious” is meaningless. It’s just another way for Logan to claim that people failed him and have them swirl in his vortex.
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Post by leatherpants on May 29, 2023 9:04:07 GMT -6
I think the siblings in the kitchen scene was partly redemptive but also made the bleak ending all that much worse. Their business is constantly disrupted by their being a family and their being a family is constantly disrupted by business. Forever more. I liked it and am satisfied. So much worse. I have all these thoughts swirling in my brain but I’m just astonished at how such horrible people can still make you root for them so hard. Like I was really unbelievably sad for Kendall and mad at Shiv, but then like how can you blame her for taking the bit of power she could. And Roman. What an absolute disaster of a person that I cannot stop myself from liking.
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Post by downwarddog on May 29, 2023 9:10:11 GMT -6
I get why some people (mostly on Reddit) didn't like the ending but I really did. I agree that it was true to the series.
I loved the scene in the kitchen with the three. It felt largely unscripted and so fun. I loved that Shiv was in the car at the end and accepted Tom's hand. And frankly, I like that it was Tom in the end. Oh, and I laughed when he put the sticker on Greg's forehead. It was funny, but also very symbolic because Tom owns Greg now. I'll miss this show, but it ended well and when it should have.
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claudia
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Post by claudia on May 29, 2023 10:14:44 GMT -6
I loved it and hated it all at once.
Kendall had the darkest ending- Shiv throwing the waiter’s death in his face and that his kids aren’t biologically his? How do you recover from that? When I think it was really that she just couldn’t fathom letting her brother “have” the win. Roman was being Roman as well- I really was afraid Kendall’s last scene was going to be Colin stopping him from hurting himself when it kept making sure to show Colin in the scene.
It seems like the tragic flaw in the family is how they were always pitted against each other and even now are unable to overcome that - though they each were coming out with a few billion from the deal, so…..
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beatch
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Post by beatch on May 29, 2023 11:49:18 GMT -6
This “not serious people” thing is bothering me. Mattson is not a serious person - sending blood blocks to Ebba?! Mattson and Tom have fatal flaws just like Kendall. “Serious” is meaningless. It’s just another way for Logan to claim that people failed him and have them swirl in his vortex. The context of that saying is that the Roy kids were willing to massively overpay for Pierce just...because? No real business reason. Mattson may not have been serious but his deal benefitted shareholders. What real reason did the Roys give to to shareholders as to why they were the best people to guide the company? They were working on their own thing in the beginning but abandoned that to get in a bidding war. Completely emotional and nonsensical. They were set to benefit from the sale and abandoned ship because they were high on their own supply. Ultimately Shiv did them a favor. They have been so immersed in being part of this empire. They were playing the same games with each other their dad was playing.
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beatch
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Post by beatch on May 29, 2023 11:50:56 GMT -6
I get why some people (mostly on Reddit) didn't like the ending but I really did. I agree that it was true to the series. I loved the scene in the kitchen with the three. It felt largely unscripted and so fun. I loved that Shiv was in the car at the end and accepted Tom's hand. And frankly, I like that it was Tom in the end. Oh, and I laughed when he put the sticker on Greg's forehead. It was funny, but also very symbolic because Tom owns Greg now. I'll miss this show, but it ended well and when it should have. The absolute barest whisper of a hand hold. Masterful last shot.
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claudia
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Post by claudia on May 29, 2023 12:36:23 GMT -6
This “not serious people” thing is bothering me. Mattson is not a serious person - sending blood blocks to Ebba?! Mattson and Tom have fatal flaws just like Kendall. “Serious” is meaningless. It’s just another way for Logan to claim that people failed him and have them swirl in his vortex. The context of that saying is that the Roy kids were willing to massively overpay for Pierce just...because? No real business reason. Mattson may not have been serious but his deal benefitted shareholders. What real reason did the Roys give to to shareholders as to why they were the best people to guide the company? They were working on their own thing in the beginning but abandoned that to get in a bidding war. Completely emotional and nonsensical. They were set to benefit from the sale and abandoned ship because they were high on their own supply. Ultimately Shiv did them a favor. They have been so immersed in being part of this empire. They were playing the same games with each other their dad was playing. I think Frank voting for the deal communicated to the audience that, for all Mattson’s shortcomings, it was the right business move. Frank was close to Kendall so if anyone would have been swayed, it was him. Speaking of being swayed, Kendall’s big speech? I cringed so hard. One thing that has been left unaddressed is the Pierce deal. The Pierce deal was contingent on the funding coming to the kids from the Mattson deal, so since the Mattson deal is done, they should be needing to finish that deal, but they all just seemed so done.
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