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Post by taadaa on Jan 25, 2023 18:29:25 GMT -6
I’m a long time lurker who created a sn to post this, if that tells you how desperate I am. I’m not super comfortable posting this about my kiddo, so fair warning that I might delete rather than leave it hanging out there.
My oldest son is 9yo and in public school (just for context). Does well, happy kid, normal (I think) behavior problems for a 9yo who’s the youngest in his grade. Teachers haven’t expressed concerns, and I’m in close contact because he did have an unexpected significant loss approaching 2 years ago. He’s been in therapy/support groups, and it’s something we deal with on an ongoing basis.
We’ve historically had problems with him and bathroom accidents - he used to pee his pants in daycare (at 3-4yo) instead of stopping what he was doing to go to the bathroom, and had no problem sitting in wet pants all afternoon (I had issues with daycare allowing that, but that’s neither here nor there at this point). Wiping after poop took what felt like years to master, and for a long time we chalked up skid marks in underwear to him being lax again about that. But as times gone on, we’ve realized he’s still having (we think) small poop accidents, and definitely ongoing wiping issues. He’s also had pee accidents that he says are all just him rushing in the bathroom and not paying attention, and peeing on his pants/underwear in the process. So this definitely isn’t new related to the loss, just to be clear.
He’s not constipated. He drinks probably not enough water for as active as he is (we have to remind him a lot drink, including during sports practice and games). He’s complained in the past about his bladder hurting, and had testing/urinalysis- the consensus with the pedi was not drinking enough and holding his pee too long.
We’ve talked about the poop underwear and pee COUNTLESS times. We’ve tried everything I can think of, and try really hard NOT to shame him about it. He knows our concern is A that something is wrong and B it’s unsanitary and someone could get sick. We also don’t want him to get teased at school.
I am at my absolute wits end. He was in VERY poopy underwear this afternoon for almost 3 hours without changing or doing anything to address it. And when I confronted him he admitted it’s been happening regularly again. We do now make him wash the underwear himself, but that’s really the only “consequence” he has.
I’m calling the pedi tomorrow (I’ve said in the past I was going to but he always says I doesn’t need to and will address it himself - he does have some medical anxiety, which is mostly controlled - I’m not sure if that’s why he doesn’t want to go or just embarrassment) but I feel like an utter failure right now. What am I doing wrong? How is he 9yo and completely fine sitting for hours in poopy underwear? How do I fix this? Nothing is working.
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abs
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Post by abs on Jan 25, 2023 18:37:15 GMT -6
This sounds like encopresis which basically means he’s holding in his poop. Even though you say he’s not constipated he probably is. This is something I went through with DD when she was much younger and it was awful. Definitely reach out to your pediatrician! It’s common. They’ll be able to help.
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Post by taadaa on Jan 25, 2023 18:41:20 GMT -6
This sounds like encopresis which basically means he’s holding in his poop. Even though you say he’s not constipated he probably is. This is something I went through with DD when she was much younger and it was awful. Definitely reach out to your pediatrician! It’s common. They’ll be able to help. That crossed my mind because I’ve read about it in younger kids. This is disgusting, but I’ve seen his poop (and asked him). It’s always like soft serve ice cream (or softer) and never hurts. Does that still sound like a possibility? Eta and he poops daily. |
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Post by icedcoffee on Jan 25, 2023 18:47:07 GMT -6
I went through constipation (and still ongoing) with my youngest daughter. She would be able to poop regularly but we found out she was still constipated. You can have soft BM coming around a larger BM as well. I've also noticed she can't always tell when she has to poop vs a fart, due to constipation.
All that to say, are you positive he isn't constipated? It might be one of the easiest things to see if they can do an xray or maybe they will suggest to try miralax to make sure he isn't.
Have you had a convo with his ped? I definitely think it's worth mentioning and see what advice they have.
All of that doesn't solve the sitting in soiled pants issue though, even though it may help the cause. I dont really have much advice on that part but hopefully you can find some answers
Eta sorry I see now it says you are calling the ped tomorrow
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STP
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Post by STP on Jan 25, 2023 18:47:27 GMT -6
This sounds like encopresis which basically means he’s holding in his poop. Even though you say he’s not constipated he probably is. This is something I went through with DD when she was much younger and it was awful. Definitely reach out to your pediatrician! It’s common. They’ll be able to help. My daughter also withholds and this is something we’ve dealt with as well. Yes, talk to your dr. They’ll help. We do a stool softener and that’s made a huge difference for her. |
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Post by taadaa on Jan 25, 2023 18:55:09 GMT -6
All that to say, are you positive he isn't constipated? It might be one of the easiest things to see if they can do an xray or maybe they will suggest to try miralax to make sure he isn't. I feel like I’m as confident as one can be? He goes daily, and if anything occasionally has diarrhea (no medication whatsoever). He’s never ever complained about poop hurting, or having a hard time going. That’s the main reason I’ve never really considered encopresis, because I’ve read about it in younger kids before (here, probably). |
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Post by icedcoffee on Jan 25, 2023 18:58:19 GMT -6
All that to say, are you positive he isn't constipated? It might be one of the easiest things to see if they can do an xray or maybe they will suggest to try miralax to make sure he isn't. I feel like I’m as confident as one can be? He goes daily, and if anything occasionally has diarrhea (no medication whatsoever). He’s never ever complained about poop hurting, or having a hard time going. That’s the main reason I’ve never really considered encopresis, because I’ve read about it in younger kids before (here, probably). I just wasn't sure if he'd been checked or seen at all recently. With our daughter they did an xray to be sure and they said she was full of poop and I was shocked haha. Hopefully the ped can steer you in the right direction quickly! |
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abs
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Post by abs on Jan 25, 2023 19:00:49 GMT -6
This sounds like encopresis which basically means he’s holding in his poop. Even though you say he’s not constipated he probably is. This is something I went through with DD when she was much younger and it was awful. Definitely reach out to your pediatrician! It’s common. They’ll be able to help. That crossed my mind because I’ve read about it in younger kids. This is disgusting, but I’ve seen his poop (and asked him). It’s always like soft serve ice cream (or softer) and never hurts. Does that still sound like a possibility? Eta and he poops daily. Yes I think it’s still likely. Your pediatrician can order an x-ray to check for constipation. You can go every day and still have an issue, especially if he’s holding some of it in. Could be something else entirely but that’s where my mind immediately went. Hope you get some clarity after you see her/him. |
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Post by 4legsrbest on Jan 25, 2023 19:03:36 GMT -6
This sounds like encopresis which basically means he’s holding in his poop. Even though you say he’s not constipated he probably is. This is something I went through with DD when she was much younger and it was awful. Definitely reach out to your pediatrician! It’s common. They’ll be able to help. That crossed my mind because I’ve read about it in younger kids. This is disgusting, but I’ve seen his poop (and asked him). It’s always like soft serve ice cream (or softer) and never hurts. Does that still sound like a possibility? Eta and he poops daily. The soft poop is the stuff getting around the constipation - its basically leakage. I’m sure if he had an ultrasound they find small round rock looking poop all the way up his colon. Soft does indicate constipation with encopresis. I’m here with a 10 year old boy. I could describe him like yours. We do daily miralax (he makes and rinks himself) and scheduled poop time when he gets home from school. Sometimes he goes, sometimes not. We’ve worked with a retraining elimination clinic and they tell me he will grow out of it and to keep doing what we’re doing. I don’t believe it because this has been going on so long for us, but I’ve spoken with other parents who are in the other side of this and they assure me it won’t last forever. And don’t shame him, it won’t work. It’s frustrating as hell, but not something they can completely control. We’re open and honest and have discussions about it. He wants it to stop too, but he says he doesn’t feel it until it’s too late. Don’t be embarrassed- you’ve done nothing wrong here! Kids are just who they are and all face some challenges. I’m a lurker myself but wanted to speak up here. |
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STP
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Post by STP on Jan 25, 2023 19:07:20 GMT -6
OP, letting her take her phone in helped too. She relaxes.
(She knows to sanitize it along with hand washing, I leave wipes in their bathroom.)
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Post by taadaa on Jan 25, 2023 19:12:34 GMT -6
OP, letting her take her phone in helped too. She relaxes. (She knows to sanitize it along with hand washing, I leave wipes in their bathroom.) We used to let him take his iPad, but he would sit there for 30+ minutes (which I know isn’t good in other ways), and then would REALLY do a bad job wiping because he was in a rush to get back to the game. Same with books. But it feels like every decision we’ve made has backfired in some way here. |
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STP
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Post by STP on Jan 25, 2023 19:32:56 GMT -6
OP, letting her take her phone in helped too. She relaxes. (She knows to sanitize it along with hand washing, I leave wipes in their bathroom.) We used to let him take his iPad, but he would sit there for 30+ minutes (which I know isn’t good in other ways), and then would REALLY do a bad job wiping because he was in a rush to get back to the game. Same with books. But it feels like every decision we’ve made has backfired in some way here. Do you have a footstool or squattypotty? That helps too, we use a cheap one from Ikea. |
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Post by sassafras83 on Jan 25, 2023 19:36:44 GMT -6
Does he have any other behaviors that may indicate ADHD of some kind?
I am asking because of the forgetting to go to the bathroom, or putting it off. I did this as a kid, outgrew it eventually, and never thought about it again until I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. My Dr said it is very common in kids with adhd - executive function man.
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Post by taadaa on Jan 25, 2023 19:39:27 GMT -6
We used to let him take his iPad, but he would sit there for 30+ minutes (which I know isn’t good in other ways), and then would REALLY do a bad job wiping because he was in a rush to get back to the game. Same with books. But it feels like every decision we’ve made has backfired in some way here. Do you have a footstool or squattypotty? That helps too, we use a cheap one from Ikea. We do have a stool, but I’m not sure if he uses it. I’ll ask. I just had a long conversation with him about it and he says (emphatically) that it’s not a pooping issue, it’s a wiping and rushing issue. He says he knows when he needs to go, never feels like he can’t get to the bathroom in time, never thinks he’s going to fart and poops. Just that he rushes wiping. The underwear I saw tonight definitely didn’t look like that, but he swore he was just in a rush and only wiped once (we’ve had countless conversations about wiping til the paper is clean, taking extra time to be thorough, asking people to wait if he thinks he’s going to miss something, etc etc). He also said he knows we don’t get upset about him getting poop in his underwear, we get upset about him not doing anything about it. … but he did it anyway today. I’m still calling the pedi but I’m at a loss. |
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Post by taadaa on Jan 25, 2023 19:40:01 GMT -6
Does he have any other behaviors that may indicate ADHD of some kind? I am asking because of the forgetting to go to the bathroom, or putting it off. I did this as a kid, outgrew it eventually, and never thought about it again until I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. My Dr said it is very common in kids with adhd - executive function man. I have wondered occasionally, but teachers have said they’re not at all concerned. |
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mapleme
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Post by mapleme on Jan 26, 2023 11:09:20 GMT -6
Do you have a footstool or squattypotty? That helps too, we use a cheap one from Ikea. We do have a stool, but I’m not sure if he uses it. I’ll ask. I just had a long conversation with him about it and he says (emphatically) that it’s not a pooping issue, it’s a wiping and rushing issue. He says he knows when he needs to go, never feels like he can’t get to the bathroom in time, never thinks he’s going to fart and poops. Just that he rushes wiping. The underwear I saw tonight definitely didn’t look like that, but he swore he was just in a rush and only wiped once (we’ve had countless conversations about wiping til the paper is clean, taking extra time to be thorough, asking people to wait if he thinks he’s going to miss something, etc etc). He also said he knows we don’t get upset about him getting poop in his underwear, we get upset about him not doing anything about it. … but he did it anyway today. I’m still calling the pedi but I’m at a loss. If he has "soft serve" poop, it could just be really sticky and be just a wiping issue. Could you get a bidet at home? |
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Jan 26, 2023 11:11:53 GMT -6
We do have a stool, but I’m not sure if he uses it. I’ll ask. I just had a long conversation with him about it and he says (emphatically) that it’s not a pooping issue, it’s a wiping and rushing issue. He says he knows when he needs to go, never feels like he can’t get to the bathroom in time, never thinks he’s going to fart and poops. Just that he rushes wiping. The underwear I saw tonight definitely didn’t look like that, but he swore he was just in a rush and only wiped once (we’ve had countless conversations about wiping til the paper is clean, taking extra time to be thorough, asking people to wait if he thinks he’s going to miss something, etc etc). He also said he knows we don’t get upset about him getting poop in his underwear, we get upset about him not doing anything about it. … but he did it anyway today. I’m still calling the pedi but I’m at a loss. If he has "soft serve" poop, it could just be really sticky and be just a wiping issue. Could you get a bidet at home? Wet toilet wipes and a trash can next to toilet to put them in? Neither of these ideas helps at school though |
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Post by taadaa on Jan 26, 2023 12:18:06 GMT -6
If he has "soft serve" poop, it could just be really sticky and be just a wiping issue. Could you get a bidet at home? Wet toilet wipes and a trash can next to toilet to put them in? Neither of these ideas helps at school though I might give that a shot. We have a gross dog who goes through the trash (close the door as much as possible, but kids) and I worry about them getting flushed. But definitely worth considering. mapleme we have talked about trying one, but I’ve always been terrified of the idea of kids and a bidet (I imagine poop water all over the bathroom- but I admit I don’t know enough about how they work in practice to know if that’s a legit concern). Definitely worth bringing up again. School is definitely a big concern if we find a workaround at home. I also need to decide how much I care about him seeing the pedi Vs an AP in the office - he can see an AP within a week, can’t get in with the pedi til mid March. |
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Jan 26, 2023 12:28:34 GMT -6
Wet toilet wipes and a trash can next to toilet to put them in? Neither of these ideas helps at school though I might give that a shot. We have a gross dog who goes through the trash (close the door as much as possible, but kids) and I worry about them getting flushed. But definitely worth considering. mapleme we have talked about trying one, but I’ve always been terrified of the idea of kids and a bidet (I imagine poop water all over the bathroom- but I admit I don’t know enough about how they work in practice to know if that’s a legit concern). Definitely worth bringing up again. School is definitely a big concern if we find a workaround at home. I also need to decide how much I care about him seeing the pedi Vs an AP in the office - he can see an AP within a week, can’t get in with the pedi til mid March. I'd ask him. He's old enough to have an opinion. He might feel more comfy talking to a dr he doesn't "know" about this topic or he might only want to talk to his regular dr about it. Mine would want to talk to someone they never ever have to see ever again. Lol |
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Post by sommerkind on Jan 26, 2023 12:33:07 GMT -6
My daughter takes wet wipes to school in a little ziplock bag (refill as needed). It’s easy to hide in a hoodie pocket/pants pocket and take to the bathroom. She would hold it at school because she was afraid the thin toilet paper would rip and get poop on her hands. It would turn into constipation and I would have to pick her up from school due to belly aches. I know flushing those wet wipes isn’t great but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
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Post by taadaa on Jan 26, 2023 12:47:35 GMT -6
My daughter takes wet wipes to school in a little ziplock bag (refill as needed). It’s easy to hide in a hoodie pocket/pants pocket and take to the bathroom. She would hold it at school because she was afraid the thin toilet paper would rip and get poop on her hands. It would turn into constipation and I would have to pick her up from school due to belly aches. I know flushing those wet wipes isn’t great but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. This is brilliant, thank you! |
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Post by lifesaverz on Jan 26, 2023 12:47:37 GMT -6
I agree with others about it likely being constipation & encopresis. We have been THROUGH it with my DD on this for years, so I feel your pain very much on this. She is 9 now, & had this issue from 4 yrs old & on, & it has only started to resolve in the past year. It felt like such a crazy & horrible process, & at times it was definitely so hard not to get frustrated. We were actively involved in trying to treat it that whole time, so I can tell you it takes time.
For starters, yes it can be constipation even if they are pooping daily. It was the same with my DD. The easiest way to find out is ask for an x-ray, that will show if it's an issue so you won't have to wonder. We ended up doing daily enemas for awhile, as well as miralax, then started working with a Pediatric Gastroenterologist specialist a few years ago, & they had her switch to daily ex-lax, which she still takes. She did daily miralax for years, but we stopped this year.
The reason the accidents happen if it is constipation/encopresis is because when the colon gets so stretched out, they literally lose the ability to feel when they need to go. So it just comes out. I promise they're not doing it on purpose. And from our experience, it can take a very very long time to shrink back. We even did had a pelvic floor PT specialist work with DD on getting those muscles to work & sense things again. We also had to remind our DD to use the bathroom every couple hours every day for years, or she would have pee accidents, also caused by constipation & the lack of feeling. She had a note at school because teachers had to remind her as well.
It was probably hands down the most frustrating thing I've had to deal with as a parent, particularly because of how long it lasted, so I completely get how hard it is. I would start with an x-ray, & just know that working with specialists can help.
Right now we're finally at a point where she takes herself pee at least, & we do daily exlax & a scheduled "poop time" in the evening a little while after dinner. I'd love to get her off the exlax but not sure when that will happen.
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Post by taadaa on Jan 26, 2023 12:56:05 GMT -6
4legsrbest and lifesaverz thank you for the insight and reassurance. Did your kiddos ever talk about what it feels like? Last night he kept saying he knows when he needs to go and never has trouble getting to the bathroom in time. This is so gross but his biological father regularly had skid marks in his underwear well into his 30s. Even though they didn’t really spend that much time together I think I subconsciously figured it was somehow related.
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trueblue
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Post by trueblue on Jan 26, 2023 13:05:40 GMT -6
The only thing I will add to him saying it’s not constipation is that this version of pooping is all he knows so relying on him to say it’s not isn’t fool proof.
I would take him to the pediatrician, get the necessary GI referrals and preliminary tests done, and go from there.
Eta: since there may be a genetic component I would also investigate whether there is a physical cause for the skid marks. Perhaps his anatomy formed slightly differently than it should have and that’s part of the problem.
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Post by flippinchica on Jan 26, 2023 13:06:30 GMT -6
My 7 year old does great with the bidet. I got it because he wanted me to wipe for him and I was over that.
But I agree with getting an xray too.
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Jan 26, 2023 13:28:07 GMT -6
I would go to dr and talk about it.
But everybody saying get an xray
Know sometimes without more evidence of blockage some Dr's just won't send you for the damned xray.
In the meantime encourage fiber and lots of water. It won't hurt might help.
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Post by lifesaverz on Jan 26, 2023 14:07:11 GMT -6
taadaa she would often say she "couldn't feel it". But there were times she said other things as well, & just in general she often had a really hard time describing or explaining it. I agree with a PP that he may not be the best judge of what's really happening. And I might suspect, particularly if he has a fear of doctors, but also just in general, kids may often tell adults what they think the "right answer" is, or what they think they want to hear, so I would keep that in mind. I would get the doctor involved, since ultimately even if it isn't constipation, ruling that out won't hurt anything, though I highly suspect that's part of it. We ended up getting DD a book (It's called "Bedwetting & Accidents Aren't Your Fault", highly recommend, can find on Amazon) that really helped explain what constipation is & how it leads to accidents, as well as talked about what to do about it, & I think her being able to understand it better reduced feelings of shame & helped us all be able to talk about it more easily.
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loki
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Post by loki on Jan 26, 2023 14:24:17 GMT -6
I am just adding in to call your doctor. We had a similar situation with DS. We assumed he wasn't wanting to stop to go, but it turned out he was constipated and likely had encopresis. He was still pooping the whole time, so we never suspected it to be something like constipation. He now takes fiber and stool softener every day and accidents have disappeared for the most part.
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Post by taadaa on Jan 26, 2023 14:30:20 GMT -6
This is really helpful everyone, thank you! Once he gets home from school I’ll ask his preference on who he’d rather see at the office, and then I can schedule the appointment through the portal tonight. I’ll push for an X-ray if they don't offer it otherwise (I would absolutely rather know with certainty than guess what’s going on).
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fatpony
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Post by fatpony on Jan 26, 2023 14:33:40 GMT -6
This is really helpful everyone, thank you! Once he gets home from school I’ll ask his preference on who he’d rather see at the office, and then I can schedule the appointment through the portal tonight. I’ll push for an X-ray if they don't offer it otherwise (I would absolutely rather know with certainty than guess what’s going on). If the doctor doesn't want to order an x-ray and still refuses after you ask, ask them to put in his chart that you specifically requested the test and they denied it. |
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