dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 25, 2022 14:24:35 GMT -6
I just googled and I didnβt realize that most of Scandinavia isnβt in NATO. Iβm admittedly not well versed in all the requirements but I just see them all as allies so I made the wrong assumptions. The thing about admitting new member states into NATO is Article V . It is committing American life and limb to defending that country in the event of any attack. I would love if we could protect everyone from every harm but there are reasons for the high conditional bar of membership. I'm not saying whether we should or shouldn't let any specific country into NATO or not, Im only speaking to one of the reasons we don't just include everyone we like.
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Feb 25, 2022 14:25:30 GMT -6
I just googled and I didnβt realize that most of Scandinavia isnβt in NATO. Iβm admittedly not well versed in all the requirements but I just see them all as allies so I made the wrong assumptions. The thing about admitting new member states into NATO is Article V . It is committing American life and limb to defending that country in the event of any attack. I would love if we could protect everyone from every harm but there are reasons for the high conditional bar of membership. I'm not saying whether we should or shouldn't let any specific country into NATO or not, Im only speaking to one of the reasons we don't just include everyone we like. Plus they also have to agree to defend all the other NATO countries. They may feel they don't have the resources for it.
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Feb 25, 2022 14:25:43 GMT -6
Picture of Zelensky in a flack jacket, looking pissed AF. My gosh. I can't even imagine. They're encouraging people to make and toss mazel tov cocktails at Russians. I listening to a reporter interviewing a citizen who had gone and gotten two AK-47, one for himself and one for his wife. When asked if he even knew how to use it, he said he planned to Google and YouTube it. This is so fucked. I wish any other country would step in and help. Citizens should not be going on YouTube to figure out how to use military weapons to defend their country by themselves. I saw a tweet that said 'if this is Ukraine auditioning for NATO they're doing a helluva job' and another that said we should immediately make Ukraine a NATO country.
The fact that we have to sit back and WATCH this is reprehensible.
like if there's 10 steps a country must do to join nato, once you start that process you should get some kind of nato support right there.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 25, 2022 14:26:55 GMT -6
Ned Price is having quite an exchange with a reporter right now about Sweden and Finland's eligibility to join NATO as if he has any say in that whatsoever
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willow
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Post by willow on Feb 25, 2022 14:30:38 GMT -6
I just googled and I didnβt realize that most of Scandinavia isnβt in NATO. Iβm admittedly not well versed in all the requirements but I just see them all as allies so I made the wrong assumptions. The thing about admitting new member states into NATO is Article V . It is committing American life and limb to defending that country in the event of any attack. I would love if we could protect everyone from every harm but there are reasons for the high conditional bar of membership. I'm not saying whether we should or shouldn't let any specific country into NATO or not, Im only speaking to one of the reasons we don't just include everyone we like. Oh yes I knew there were specific requirements and a high bar and all that, I just guess I assumed Sweden and Finland were in there from the get go. Google is telling me a lot right now, haha.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 25, 2022 14:37:16 GMT -6
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 25, 2022 14:39:24 GMT -6
This took my breath away
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Post by ozziebear on Feb 25, 2022 14:41:45 GMT -6
Finland and Sweden are odd cases. Especially since theyβre in the EU. And have participated in various NATO-sponsored programs. But I think both have been militarily neutral for 200+ years. Finland had its own separate nonaggression treaties with the Soviets. But I think there will be a lot of interesting domestic politics on NATO to come in both countries.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 25, 2022 14:42:53 GMT -6
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cnf
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Post by cnf on Feb 25, 2022 14:55:39 GMT -6
Just got the official word to not answer questions from the general public. Reaching out to the feds to see if there is an βofficial statement.β πͺ Iβve been here for 6 years, 10 in this field, and I donβt think Iβve ever heard this πͺ Geeze. I am so sorry. I assume this is surrounding your nuclear understanding? Obviously don't answer that, though.
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Ls2012
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Post by Ls2012 on Feb 25, 2022 15:04:04 GMT -6
I can think of a few Americans we can sanction and muzzle...
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Feb 25, 2022 15:09:15 GMT -6
I can think of a few Americans we can sanction and muzzle... Me too. On the top of course starts with D and ends with -ump
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richard
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Post by richard on Feb 25, 2022 15:13:44 GMT -6
Finland and Sweden are odd cases. Especially since theyβre in the EU. And have participated in various NATO-sponsored programs. But I think both have been militarily neutral for 200+ years. Finland had its own separate nonaggression treaties with the Soviets. But I think there will be a lot of interesting domestic politics on NATO to come in both countries. I worked loosely with the Swedish Embassy for a while and I remember being at a training and they were talking about how their most pressing diplomatic issue at the time was Russian subs.
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Post by blurnette989 on Feb 25, 2022 15:28:00 GMT -6
Finland and Sweden are odd cases. Especially since theyβre in the EU. And have participated in various NATO-sponsored programs. But I think both have been militarily neutral for 200+ years. Finland had its own separate nonaggression treaties with the Soviets. But I think there will be a lot of interesting domestic politics on NATO to come in both countries. I worked loosely with the Swedish Embassy for a while and I remember being at a training and they were talking about how their most pressing diplomatic issue at the time was Russian subs. yes. And Finland used to be considered a Baltic state before it was lumped in as Nordic. The waterways really leave them uniquely vulnerable to Russia.
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elle
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Post by elle on Feb 25, 2022 15:34:45 GMT -6
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Post by ozziebear on Feb 25, 2022 15:35:10 GMT -6
Finland and Sweden are odd cases. Especially since theyβre in the EU. And have participated in various NATO-sponsored programs. But I think both have been militarily neutral for 200+ years. Finland had its own separate nonaggression treaties with the Soviets. But I think there will be a lot of interesting domestic politics on NATO to come in both countries. I worked loosely with the Swedish Embassy for a while and I remember being at a training and they were talking about how their most pressing diplomatic issue at the time was Russian subs. Yeah, I wouldnβt be surprised. I think Sweden has leaned toward it a little more than Finland. H (military pilot) says the Russians have also done tons of airspace violations in the last five-ish years, and in general the Swedes have been very nervous about their ability to quickly see it and respond to it. I am sure both countries are rightfully concerned about repercussions if they do join. Obligatory fuck Putin.
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Feb 25, 2022 16:05:51 GMT -6
Hopefully this is the answer to whether they are going to try and do the same to Taiwan. But this is huge. If China's not on board, sanctions may be more effective.
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Post by blurnette989 on Feb 25, 2022 16:11:22 GMT -6
I don't think most Americans "get" Eurovision I mean I don't think they realize how popular it really is bc it just is not a thing here All I know about it is via Rachel McAdams and Will Farrell. it is truly as ridiculous as the movie, but taken EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY by all countries involved. It is peak European. Portugal has won only once, but the performer and songwriter will be heroes for decades to come.
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Post by seventythree on Feb 25, 2022 16:21:04 GMT -6
seventythree, I'm sorry for tagging you and probably scaring the shit out of you. But do I remember correctly that your family is Ukrainian? With all this in the news, I was remembering that there was someone on M15 whose family was (I think) and couldn't remember your name. And then today with the discussion on GD about lurking and being able to see posters who are reading made me go to the page where you see names and I saw your name and it was too much of a coincidence not to tag you! Holy shit, good memory! Yes, they are. We are. My grandparents on both sides were immigrants, and a huge chunk of my identity growing up was based on being Ukrainian-Canadian. School, church, dance, scouts, summer camp, choir, etc. A very tight-knit community, now spanning generations. I didn't speak English until I started preschool. Even the place where we had (have, I guess) our family cottage was called Camp Ukraina. So, um, yeah I guess I brought all this up once or twice π I've lost that in my day-to-day life/community since moving to Chicago -- though we did get married in the Ukrainian Catholic cathedral -- but I am trying to pass on as much of the culture as I can to my girls. My parents and grandparents are long gone and I have no people here, so it can be tough. I'm doing my best. My heart has been heavy over the last few days. I still have family over there, but nobody with whom I have direct contact. Distant cousins and whatnot. I'd feel the same even if I didn't. My go-to defense mode is to bury my head in the sand (yay anxiety), but I appreciate this thread and the chance to ramble a little bit. ππ
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origami
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Post by origami on Feb 25, 2022 16:45:33 GMT -6
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richard
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Post by richard on Feb 25, 2022 16:47:03 GMT -6
seventythree , I'm sorry for tagging you and probably scaring the shit out of you. But do I remember correctly that your family is Ukrainian? With all this in the news, I was remembering that there was someone on M15 whose family was (I think) and couldn't remember your name. And then today with the discussion on GD about lurking and being able to see posters who are reading made me go to the page where you see names and I saw your name and it was too much of a coincidence not to tag you! Holy shit, good memory! Yes, they are. We are. My grandparents on both sides were immigrants, and a huge chunk of my identity growing up was based on being Ukrainian-Canadian. School, church, dance, scouts, summer camp, choir, etc. A very tight-knit community, now spanning generations. I didn't speak English until I started preschool. Even the place where we had (have, I guess) our family cottage was called Camp Ukraina. So, um, yeah I guess I brought all this up once or twice π I've lost that in my day-to-day life/community since moving to Chicago -- though we did get married in the Ukrainian Catholic cathedral -- but I am trying to pass on as much of the culture as I can to my girls. My parents and grandparents are long gone and I have no people here, so it can be tough. I'm doing my best. My heart has been heavy over the last few days. I still have family over there, but nobody with whom I have direct contact. Distant cousins and whatnot. I'd feel the same even if I didn't. My go-to defense mode is to bury my head in the sand (yay anxiety), but I appreciate this thread and the chance to ramble a little bit. ππ I think it was the Chicago Ukrainian church thing I remember! I cataloged a lot of pictures of the Ukrainian Catholic churches when I was in grad school there and I remember talking about how pretty they are. The most random things stick in my head but I couldn't remember your SN to save my life until I saw it. I hope everyone in your family - close or not - stays safe.
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elle
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Post by elle on Feb 25, 2022 16:57:52 GMT -6
China and India abstain! This is huge. linkEta: sorry, I'm speaking of the UN security council vote. Russia vetoes of course.
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richard
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Post by richard on Feb 25, 2022 17:00:08 GMT -6
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elle
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Post by elle on Feb 25, 2022 17:06:17 GMT -6
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richard
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Post by richard on Feb 25, 2022 17:24:27 GMT -6
This is an explainer thread on RDIF:
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Feb 25, 2022 17:46:38 GMT -6
I do wonder how this will affect Beijing's Paralympics starting next week. Not like a major concern, but still
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Feb 25, 2022 18:20:47 GMT -6
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lucylou
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Post by lucylou on Feb 25, 2022 18:34:21 GMT -6
Itβs cool Biden asked for aid but like, is that helping them at this moment? Will there be a Ukraine to give aid to by morning?
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elle
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Post by elle on Feb 25, 2022 19:06:16 GMT -6
Itβs cool Biden asked for aid but like, is that helping them at this moment? Will there be a Ukraine to give aid to by morning? I hate that our process is so slow but I don't think it's something he could just unilaterally decide.
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origami
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Post by origami on Feb 25, 2022 19:26:08 GMT -6
Aid won't be instantaneous but it is likely to be relatively fast. There is also likely aid happening from neighboring states
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