starbuck
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Post by starbuck on Aug 17, 2021 11:57:26 GMT -6
The track record for the Taliban is "not good" like no shit they are monsters
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Aug 17, 2021 11:58:23 GMT -6
I need them to not just T&P for women and girls in Afghanistan. Its truly a no win situation.
We cant stay and we can't take every female out of the country its an awful choice.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Aug 17, 2021 11:59:57 GMT -6
Thats interesting, POTUS has not spoken with any other world leaders since Kabul fell. communications have been thru counterparts to DOD/NSA
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Aug 17, 2021 12:00:54 GMT -6
Asked about review of what went wrong
Jake - dude you're gonna be testifying in front of congress. Thats a nobrainer.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Aug 17, 2021 12:05:24 GMT -6
I just caught a glimpse of Gizzi!
I have no idea why that guy fascinates me in briefings, probably because of his napping habits
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beatch
Amethyst
My ass is self-sufficient
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Post by beatch on Aug 17, 2021 12:06:40 GMT -6
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Aug 17, 2021 12:07:39 GMT -6
Gizzi asking about asylum for the Afghan leaders
Jake is unaware of any requests from the former president/leaders.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Aug 17, 2021 12:09:20 GMT -6
Apparently we're facilitating the evac of our NATO allies who are still there
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Post by ozziebear on Aug 17, 2021 12:14:41 GMT -6
I spent years working AfPak issues. I’ve done countless TDYs to the region. My H deployed multiple times, as have all of his closest friends. I have a lot of random thoughts that I’m apparently just going to dump here. Sorry for my stream of consciousness.
- Someone said it upthread, but please remember an Afghan is a person and an Afghani is currency. - At the same time, remember Afghanistan as a state is an inherited British construct and ethnicities matter hugely there. Remember too that the Taliban is not a monolith. - Even if they hated the Taliban, or were pro-democracy, most Afghans didn’t want us there. Many tolerated us there as a tool, not as a presence or influence. - Blaming the intel community is a complete abdication of responsibility by this administration. The IC has been saying this result was inevitable, and that the swiftness of it was possible, for years despite serious pushback from DOD. We’ve seen it small scale where ANA units surrender posts without firing shots for years. Intel is not meant to determine policy; you will never convince me that Biden’s administration didn’t know this swift collapse was a real possibility. They’re not new here. - The Afghan government (ie the elite) does deserve blame alongside the USG. Corruption and switching sides is a way of life - ghost soldiers became a way of life. No soldier will fight a determined enemy when his food, pay, and equipment have been pilfered long ago. The ANSF has been a house of cards. NDS was so penetrated by both political influence and hostile forces, it was unreal. Shadow governors often offered more governance than government leaders. - Every day I was in Afghanistan, I sat in an armored car as it rolled past young men who were paid to take bullets for myself and my colleagues if it came to it. And many did. I think then and now that they knew this would happen - that we would leave and too many of them would be left to fend for themselves. We did it in the 80s, and we are doing it now. We owed them, their families, and their communities better. I know the SIV process has been churning, but we’ll never be able to say we did enough. - We owe our veterans better than an email and a line or two in a speech. I found Biden’s words to them pretty hollow. He didn’t send our troops there, but he knows not all wounds heal cleanly. - I’m sick of them defending the leaving; defend what you’re doing now.
I also strongly recommend Taliban by Ahmed Rashid and Ghost Wars by Steve Coll for anyone wanting a intro backgrounder.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Aug 17, 2021 12:18:25 GMT -6
Snip in case you wanted a pdq I also strongly recommend Taliban by Ahmed Rashid and Ghost Wars by Steve Coll for anyone wanting a intro backgrounder. I was wondering about you. I hope you are doing ok. And thank you for your input
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Post by ozziebear on Aug 17, 2021 12:21:16 GMT -6
jkjacq thank you! I’ve been good! Lurking on and off, but just got busy with work travel - which is now slowing thanks to delta. Sigh. Even when I’m not chiming in, I always appreciate the discussion here ❤️
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Aug 17, 2021 12:26:46 GMT -6
why isnt the US providing support for americans to GET to kabul
word salad. its a very unsatisfying answer.
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willow
Ruby
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Post by willow on Aug 17, 2021 12:28:24 GMT -6
Thank you for your perspective and words, ozziebear. It is so frustrating to think that there was really no good solution out of this mess and yet we (collective we) still can't own up to our failures.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Aug 17, 2021 12:30:57 GMT -6
Why would you ask about how she feels about how Axe feels about her.
'even Axe would say there's a difference being on the outside rather than the inside'
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dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
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Post by dc2london on Aug 17, 2021 12:38:07 GMT -6
Oh geez
POTUS was at Camp David all weekend how could he know what was going on.
what a dumb question. jake was like uhhhhhh he worked all weekend. its not like he was on a golf course
They....they have offices there
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dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
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Post by dc2london on Aug 17, 2021 12:39:16 GMT -6
I just caught a glimpse of Gizzi!
I have no idea why that guy fascinates me in briefings, probably because of his napping habits
I was making icing and I yelled out ",GIZZI!!!" And DD jumped and icing sugar went everywhere
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Aug 17, 2021 12:39:53 GMT -6
Oh geez
POTUS was at Camp David all weekend how could he know what was going on.
what a dumb question. jake was like uhhhhhh he worked all weekend. its not like he was on a golf course
They....they have offices there They are still expecting the other guy's behavior out of Biden
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Post by ozziebear on Aug 17, 2021 12:40:16 GMT -6
Thank you for your perspective and words, ozziebear. It is so frustrating to think that there was really no good solution out of this mess and yet we (collective we) still can't own up to our failures. We’ll do it academically, I think, in time. I mean we’ve been there so long there’s already a million “lessons learned” studies on Afghanistan (I’ll spare you a rant about how many of these we shouldn’t have had to relearn). Which needs to happen obviously. But even that feels so painfully hollow right now when you’re seeing the scenes we are seeing - and those are mostly just KIA, not even the other cities - and knowing so many will be left behind, and countless more are long dead. And that American men and women, dead and wounded (mentally as well as physically), will be boiled down to tragic statistics from which we draw conclusions about where we went wrong.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Aug 17, 2021 12:46:06 GMT -6
I didnt catch a single question or update on haiti in that briefing
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dc2london
Admin
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Post by dc2london on Aug 17, 2021 14:06:47 GMT -6
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dc2london
Admin
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Post by dc2london on Aug 17, 2021 14:23:23 GMT -6
Oh...uh.....ok....
Let's see how this plays out
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starbuck
Emerald
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Post by starbuck on Aug 17, 2021 15:13:39 GMT -6
If you can find this interview between Tapper and Peter Galbraith who was UN Special Rep for Afghanistan on Youtube or whatever, it is really fascinating. Sorry for not live-blogging.
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richard
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Post by richard on Aug 17, 2021 15:20:41 GMT -6
Lord alive, our state GOP chair is awful. (She previously volunteered to run as Lt. Gov to Mike Lindell's Gov and was very tight with the sex trafficking GOP donor.)
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bobyn
Diamond
local baby-making menace
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Post by bobyn on Aug 17, 2021 15:26:02 GMT -6
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starbuck
Emerald
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Post by starbuck on Aug 17, 2021 15:31:05 GMT -6
Why the fuck is this guy with no symptoms getting Regeneron therapy? I know the answer. He was at a packed, maskless event last night,.
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willow
Ruby
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Post by willow on Aug 17, 2021 18:34:08 GMT -6
richard The entire development of that story is so ridiculous. Her stubborn refusal to step down after so many in the GQP called for it is also something. I read in an article related to all of that, that Gazelka is eyeing a run against Walz. I mean it doesn’t matter who his opponent is, they would all likely be horrific but Lord above if Gazelka was our governor. I don’t even know.
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dc2london
Admin
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Post by dc2london on Aug 17, 2021 18:52:07 GMT -6
🤨
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richard
Emerald
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Post by richard on Aug 17, 2021 19:17:26 GMT -6
richard The entire development of that story is so ridiculous. Her stubborn refusal to step down after so many in the GQP called for it is also something. I read in an article related to all of that, that Gazelka is eyeing a run against Walz. I mean it doesn’t matter who his opponent is, they would all likely be horrific but Lord above if Gazelka was our governor. I don’t even know. There are several young women GOP interns/staffers coming out now that Carnahan harassed and bullied them, spreading lies about them, ignoring their sexual harassment complaints, etc. In one case, she outed one of them within the party. She seems extremely toxic and vindictive. Like when all the other Trumpers are speaking out against you, you know it has to be bad.
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origami
Amethyst
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Post by origami on Aug 17, 2021 19:40:50 GMT -6
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Aug 17, 2021 21:46:53 GMT -6
I feel like this could be on the old Daily Show segment your moment of Zen.
Apparently he’s being sued for unpaid consulting services from his 2018 gubernatorial campaign.
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