McBenny
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#sickomode
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Post by McBenny on Jul 21, 2021 12:40:02 GMT -6
My understanding is that it was from interviews in 1996 that are just being released, but I could definitely be wrong. Still, I can’t understand why the defense wanted all of that stuff unsealed. None of it makes him look less guilty. when I looked it up it said it did not specify if this was said back then or recently. Not arguing just letting you know I searched for it.
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Radley
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Post by Radley on Jul 21, 2021 13:04:27 GMT -6
As a mom with a child who struggles with speech sounds and a developmental stutter (and more), it breaks my heart how often his speech impediment was brought up in conjunction with how “creepy” he was. My son will in all likelihood speak “normally” with therapy and age but it truly sucked to hear that repeatedly. And I know that what they said isn’t on Chris but to hear sooooo many people use it as synonymous with negative behavior just opened my eyes up even more to how horribly society views anything not “normal”. I’m sure he does come off as a major creep but idk. I’m just rambling and sad about that specific aspect of it. this bothered me as well. I felt it was unnecessary to harp on. That and not being invited to parties at the college. Who does formal invites? That wasn't the norm when I was in school. Also if he wasn't invited and it was that type of party why not ask him to leave? I really don't buy a lot of it. Who just has a known acquaintance known as Psycho Paul? I feel it is people now wanting to be part of the story. (not the women telling their own stories) I'm speaking about these peripheral people that had nothing to add but that he was creepy. The invite thing was weird to me too. I’d see it being weird if he showed up to small gatherings of five or so people without being invited but these are parties where people admitted to not knowing all of the guests or keeping up with people very well, which lends to the belief that these are typical high school/college parties where people just show up. I know you can be hyper aware of people who creep you out but I’d bet money he wasn’t the only person who showed up without a true invite. The last episode was imo unnecessary. This man is evil and will hopefully go away forever for his crimes against women, but the speculation felt rather self indulgent on Chris’ part.
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
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Post by McBenny on Jul 21, 2021 13:21:18 GMT -6
this bothered me as well. I felt it was unnecessary to harp on. That and not being invited to parties at the college. Who does formal invites? That wasn't the norm when I was in school. Also if he wasn't invited and it was that type of party why not ask him to leave? I really don't buy a lot of it. Who just has a known acquaintance known as Psycho Paul? I feel it is people now wanting to be part of the story. (not the women telling their own stories) I'm speaking about these peripheral people that had nothing to add but that he was creepy. The invite thing was weird to me too. I’d see it being weird if he showed up to small gatherings of five or so people without being invited but these are parties where people admitted to not knowing all of the guests or keeping up with people very well, which lends to the belief that these are typical high school/college parties where people just show up. I know you can be hyper aware of people who creep you out but I’d bet money he wasn’t the only person who showed up without a true invite. The last episode was imo unnecessary. This man is evil and will hopefully go away forever for his crimes against women, but the speculation felt rather self indulgent on Chris’ part. FOR ME FOR ME FOR ME FOR ME
The attention he allowed to be given to the speech impediment, his not having a car, his not having been invited, he threw in no friends took away. Again I know it's a me issue but hit me with factual stuff. The time spent on this bullshit for me, told me, Chris had nothing better/factual to talk about.
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Radley
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Post by Radley on Jul 21, 2021 17:16:57 GMT -6
The invite thing was weird to me too. I’d see it being weird if he showed up to small gatherings of five or so people without being invited but these are parties where people admitted to not knowing all of the guests or keeping up with people very well, which lends to the belief that these are typical high school/college parties where people just show up. I know you can be hyper aware of people who creep you out but I’d bet money he wasn’t the only person who showed up without a true invite. The last episode was imo unnecessary. This man is evil and will hopefully go away forever for his crimes against women, but the speculation felt rather self indulgent on Chris’ part. FOR ME FOR ME FOR ME FOR ME
The attention he allowed to be given to the speech impediment, his not having a car, his not having been invited, he threw in no friends took away. Again I know it's a me issue but hit me with factual stuff. The time spent on this bullshit for me, told me, Chris had nothing better/factual to talk about.
I agree
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auburn
Sapphire
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Post by auburn on Jul 21, 2021 18:12:00 GMT -6
I just listened to Chris on Up and Adam in the morning, and he makes a point to say that having a stutter in no way equals being the kind of person that Paul is. He said what it does prove is that they are all talking about the same person.
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
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Post by McBenny on Jul 21, 2021 19:04:51 GMT -6
I just listened to Chris on Up and Adam in the morning, and he makes a point to say that having a stutter in no way equals being the kind of person that Paul is. He said what it does prove is that they are all talking about the same person. he should have said that shit on his podcast or maybe not harp on it. JMO. Not arguing with auburn here.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jul 21, 2021 19:25:24 GMT -6
I feel like no one was really invited anywhere in college (unless dinners or closed Greek parties) but we also all knew one or two people (ok, guys) that were always lurking and didn’t come with a group and just seemed off. Like never enough to say anything but once something happened it would be like “yeah, who really is THAT guy?” I felt like that’s what was happening in this case but it was so hindsight that it lacked any real weight. Like I wanted to say “well if he was that creepy why didn’t anyone kick him out or say something” but then I remembered college and the scene and how often stuff was just normal until someone pointed it out.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jul 21, 2021 19:26:08 GMT -6
I haven’t listened to the new episodes so I’m just talking about what was in the initial podcast
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Jul 21, 2021 20:57:52 GMT -6
I feel like no one was really invited anywhere in college (unless dinners or closed Greek parties) but we also all knew one or two people (ok, guys) that were always lurking and didn’t come with a group and just seemed off. Like never enough to say anything but once something happened it would be like “yeah, who really is THAT guy?” I felt like that’s what was happening in this case but it was so hindsight that it lacked any real weight. Like I wanted to say “well if he was that creepy why didn’t anyone kick him out or say something” but then I remembered college and the scene and how often stuff was just normal until someone pointed it out. I am dismayed by how many straight up assaults there were that no one reported. There are several described in the last two episodes. They say the boys beat him up or made him leave the party. I have listened to part of the Up and Adam interview. It’s so long! Over an hour. He says again that everything he releases goes through multiple checkpoints before he releases anything and he says there is a lot of stuff that law enforcement has that he hasn’t seen. One of the most interesting things uncovered in the unsealed documents is that the FBI was working undercover to befriend him and get him to confess. They have hours of video and audio footage.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jul 21, 2021 21:42:15 GMT -6
I feel like no one was really invited anywhere in college (unless dinners or closed Greek parties) but we also all knew one or two people (ok, guys) that were always lurking and didn’t come with a group and just seemed off. Like never enough to say anything but once something happened it would be like “yeah, who really is THAT guy?” I felt like that’s what was happening in this case but it was so hindsight that it lacked any real weight. Like I wanted to say “well if he was that creepy why didn’t anyone kick him out or say something” but then I remembered college and the scene and how often stuff was just normal until someone pointed it out. I am dismayed by how many straight up assaults there were that no one reported. There are several described in the last two episodes. They say the boys beat him up or made him leave the party. I have listened to part of the Up and Adam interview. It’s so long! Over an hour. He says again that everything he releases goes through multiple checkpoints before he releases anything and he says there is a lot of stuff that law enforcement has that he hasn’t seen. One of the most interesting things uncovered in the unsealed documents is that the FBI was working undercover to befriend him and get him to confess. They have hours of video and audio footage. Wow. That’s crazy. Now I might have to listen to those other episodes.
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Jul 21, 2021 21:43:35 GMT -6
I am dismayed by how many straight up assaults there were that no one reported. There are several described in the last two episodes. They say the boys beat him up or made him leave the party. I have listened to part of the Up and Adam interview. It’s so long! Over an hour. He says again that everything he releases goes through multiple checkpoints before he releases anything and he says there is a lot of stuff that law enforcement has that he hasn’t seen. One of the most interesting things uncovered in the unsealed documents is that the FBI was working undercover to befriend him and get him to confess. They have hours of video and audio footage. Wow. That’s crazy. Now I might have to listen to those other episodes. The FBI is discussed in the interview on Up and Adam in the morning, but I have also listened to the last two episodes of YOBY. The last one is particularly disturbing.
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agm04
Platinum
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Post by agm04 on Jul 22, 2021 10:56:34 GMT -6
I feel like no one was really invited anywhere in college (unless dinners or closed Greek parties) but we also all knew one or two people (ok, guys) that were always lurking and didn’t come with a group and just seemed off. Like never enough to say anything but once something happened it would be like “yeah, who really is THAT guy?” I felt like that’s what was happening in this case but it was so hindsight that it lacked any real weight. Like I wanted to say “well if he was that creepy why didn’t anyone kick him out or say something” but then I remembered college and the scene and how often stuff was just normal until someone pointed it out. interesting. definitely no one like that hanging around us in college, and we had some huge parties at a huge school. i mean there were guys who would stare or hit on anyone and everyone, but people knew them.
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Radley
Sapphire
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Post by Radley on Jul 27, 2021 10:45:56 GMT -6
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Yogurt
Emerald
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Post by Yogurt on Jul 27, 2021 10:47:46 GMT -6
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auburn
Sapphire
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Post by auburn on Jul 27, 2021 17:29:54 GMT -6
He’s answering a few questions on that post. One seems to indicate they are using cadaver dogs.
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Yogurt
Emerald
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Post by Yogurt on Aug 2, 2021 14:37:18 GMT -6
So...they are going with a Taco Bell defense. Quite a choice.
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Yogurt
Emerald
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Post by Yogurt on Aug 2, 2021 14:37:48 GMT -6
DAY 1 On the record at 10:36am
Prosecutor Christopher Peuvrelle calls Denise Smart to the stand. Questioning focuses on Kristin’s role in the Smart family, and whether or not she was the type to run away. Detailed notes to follow.
Break at 11:17am
Defense Attorney Robert Sanger cross-examines Denise Smart. Questioning focuses on whether Kristin ever mentioned aspirations of being a model, wishing to travel to Thailand, or whether she told Denise about her boyfriends at Cal Poly. Detailed notes to follow.
Defense Attorney Harold Mesick cross-examines Denise Smart. Questioning focuses on whether Kristin enjoyed Taco Bell and whether Denise was aware that Kristin was reportedly sighted at several Taco Bells. Detailed notes to follow.
Both defense attorneys ask to reserve the right to recall Denise Smart as a witness.
Lunch break at 11:58am
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Pistol
Diamond
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Post by Pistol on Aug 2, 2021 14:41:10 GMT -6
So...they are going with a Taco Bell defense. Quite a choice. Taco Bell defense?
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Yogurt
Emerald
Posts: 11,889 Likes: 42,317
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Post by Yogurt on Aug 2, 2021 14:47:53 GMT -6
So...they are going with a Taco Bell defense. Quite a choice. Taco Bell defense? Paul couldn't have killed her because there were reported sightings of her at Taco Bells.
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Post by jenfromcanada on Aug 2, 2021 18:31:27 GMT -6
OMG I hate the Flores family. I know it should be innocent until proven guilty but if they aren’t hiding something, then they are just really awful people for no reason.
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auburn
Sapphire
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Post by auburn on Aug 2, 2021 23:52:24 GMT -6
His defense is going to be really gross. They are headed down the “she was drunk, ran off to Thailand, liked a bunch of boys” defense. They are really going to try and imply that she just up and left her family for 25 years on a night she was so drunk that she couldn’t walk and managed to evade discovery for all these years.
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Yogurt
Emerald
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Post by Yogurt on Aug 4, 2021 21:58:56 GMT -6
DAY 2 This text was transcribed from handwritten notes taken in the courtroom. They are not verbatim. Spoilered because its a long wall of text
On the record at 9:08am
Defense Attorney Robert Sanger emailed Judge with concerns about a COVID outbreak at the San Luis Obispo Jail. He asks the court to enforce Prosecution wearing a mask at all times. He is concerned that his client was given a surgical mask this morning and not an N95 mask. “Life’s too short.” He says he doesn’t want to risk anyone getting sick.
Prosecutor Peuvrelle says the jail is not on lockdown, and Paul Flores has been cleared for transport. “We are in an indefinite pandemic.” He asks that things move forward as scheduled.
Judge van Rooyen requests that things move forward but everyone ‘in front of the bar’ should wear a mask at all times, except when addressing the court.
Peuvrelle requests to submit People’s Exhibit 1. Sanger says he has significant objections based on relevance. The Judge reviews the exhibit and rules that Sanger’s objection goes towards the weight and not the admissibility of the exhibit.
Prosecution calls Steven Fleming to the stand. Questions focus on his time as a Cal Poly student and his friendship with Kristin Smart when they both lived in Muir Hall.
Peuvrelle establishes that Steven Fleming was a Cal Poly student from 1995-2000. In 1996, he lived on the third floor of Muir Hall. Kristin Smart lived in Room 120 on the first floor.
Fleming says he and Kristin became friends when he commented about her height, and asked if she played basketball.
He says they had classes together and talked a lot, but that Kristin was ‘more mature’, and listened more to his problems than he did to hers. He describes his ego at the time, when he played on the Cal Poly basketball team, saying “you couldn’t fit [my ego] in this room.”
He describes Kristin as ‘nice’ and says that in school, “certain people just get you. She got me.”
He says if her dorm room door was open, he would go in and they would talk. He says Kristin was well-traveled and more knowledgeable than he was at 19. “She helped me learn some stuff. Sometimes I feel like I failed her.”
Peuvrelle asks if Fleming ever saw Paul Flores around Muir Hall. He says yes, and identifies Paul Flores in the courtroom.
He describes Paul’s behavior at Cal Poly as “creepy” and “a lurker”. He says he saw Paul on one occasion by himself, lurking outside of Muir Hall around 1am.
On another occasion, he says he saw Paul Flores in Kristin Smart’s dorm room with her, and says that, in hindsight, Kristin appeared ‘nervous’. “I was dumb. I didn’t see it. Everyone knew Paul was creepy.” The Judge sustains Sanger’s objection.
Peuvrelle asks if Paul Flores appeared to be a welcome guest in Kristin’s dorm room. Fleming says he was not welcome. He says Kristin was “a very kind person. She didn’t judge. She was friendly.” He says Paul was weird and creepy around Kristin, and she never reciprocated his interest.
Fleming says that after Memorial Day weekend 1996, he never saw or heard from Kristin Smart again.
Sanger cross-examines Steven Fleming. Questions focus on Fleming’s memory and whether or not he was sure it was Paul Flores that he saw at the time.
Sanger asks if Fleming told officers that he wasn’t “100% sure” that it was Paul Flores he saw lurking around Muir Hall. Fleming says he doesn’t recall saying that.
Sanger notes that the first time Fleming spoke to anyone about this case was when the FBI interviewed him in 1999, and he didn’t speak to San Luis Obispo Sheriff’s Investigators until July 9, 2021.
Sanger asks if Fleming is aware that he in the only person who has ever reported seeing Paul Flores and Kristin Smart together before the party on May 24th. Fleming says he did not know that.
Fleming believes that Kristin’s roommate in Muir Hall was Margarita Campos. Sanger asks if he remembers a roommate named Crystal. Fleming does not.
Sanger asks Fleming is he was “attracted to Kristin Smart because she was a beautiful girl”. Fleming says she was beautiful, but that their relationship never went further than a friendship.
Sanger asks if Fleming told investigators that Kristin said that her parents were “on her butt” and that Fleming felt like he didn’t listen enough to her problems. He says he does not recall this, but he was “not the best friend” to Kristin and “didn’t pay the best attention to her”.
Morning break at 10:15am
Back on the record at 10:37am. Sanger continues his cross-examination of Steven Fleming.
Sanger notes that in Fleming’s interview with Sheriff’s Investigators on July 9, 2021, he referred to Paul Flores as “creepy” six times, and also referred to him as “fucking weird” and a “fucker”. He also says that Fleming told investigators he could not say with “100% certainty” that it was Paul Flores he saw in Kristin’s dorm room. Fleming says he was referring to other instances where he may have seen Paul around the Cal Poly campus but was not 100% certain.
Sanger asks if Fleming knows someone named ‘Yanish’. Fleming says he does not. Sanger asks if Fleming was aware that Yanish was reported for peeping in Kristin Smart’s window. Fleming says he does not remember hearing that.
Sanger asks if Fleming moved out of Muir Hall during the 1995-1996 school year. Fleming says he moved out because of a dispute with his roommate, who was also on the Cal Poly basketball team, but that he moved back in later because his new roommate was growing marijuana in his closet, and Fleming didn’t want to risk getting kicked off of the basketball team.
Sanger asks who Kristin Smart was dating during the time that Fleming knew her. Fleming says he didn’t talk about those kinds of things with Kristin. “It wasn’t that type of friendship.”
Sanger asks if Fleming told the FBI in 1999 that Kristin was “pretty happy one day, and extremely depressed the next”. Fleming doesn’t recall saying this, but says he was aware that Kristin was ‘going through some things’. “I was pretty much in my own world at that time.”
Sanger goes through a list of men who he claims Kristin may have been dating at Cal Poly. Fleming is not familiar with any of them. Sanger asks if Fleming ever saw Scott Peterson hanging around Kristin Smart. Fleming says he did not.
Sanger asks if Kristin ever used any nicknames around him. Fleming says, “I called her Kristin. Maybe Kris.”
Sanger asks if Kristin was ‘known for getting into cars with strangers’? Fleming says no. He always walked places with her.
Sanger produces a map of the Cal Poly campus from 1996 and asks Fleming if he can understand it. Fleming says it’s difficult to see. The Prosecution offers a large map of the campus that they have had blown up and printed, but Sanger says it’s from 2021 and declines to use it. He spends several minutes asking Fleming to identify buildings, streets, and parking lots from the small map.
Sanger asks where else Fleming saw Paul Flores around Kristin Smart. Fleming says he saw him eating at the Student Union gathering area. Sanger asks, “Do you know where the actual Paul Flores actually worked?” Fleming says he does not.
Sanger asks if Fleming has watched the various tv shows about the case over the years. He says he has not, he only watches football games and he has an active child. Sanger asks if Fleming has spoken to Chris Lambert, “the podcaster following this case”? Fleming says he has not. Sanger asks if he has ever spoken to Dennis Mahon. He says he has not.
Harold Mesick questions Steven Fleming. Questions focus on Fleming’s military career and his guilt.
Mesick establishes that Fleming achieved a rank of Army Captain and served in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
Mesick asks if Fleming is aware that Margarita Campos was not Kristin Smart’s roommate. Fleming says he is not. Mesick asks if Fleming could have seen Paul Flores in Margarita’s dorm room with Kristin, rather than her own room. Fleming says that could be.
Mesick asks if Fleming feels responsible in some way for what happened to Kristin Smart. Fleming says if he could ‘press rewind’ he would, and he feels that Kristin was a better friend to him than he was to her. Mesick clarifies that he’s asking if Fleming feels ‘responsible’ for what happened. Fleming says he does not feel responsible. “I just miss her.” Mesick asks if Fleming has any personal knowledge of what happened to Kristin Smart. Fleming says no.
Prosecutor Peuvrelle redirects Steven Fleming
Peuvrelle asks if seeing the report from his 1999 FBI interview would refresh Fleming’s memory about whether or not he saw Paul Flores in Kristin Smart’s room or Margarita Campos’ room. Fleming says yes. Peuvrelle allow him to read the report. Fleming confirms that he saw Paul Flores in Kristin Smart’s room around five or six times, and says, “She didn’t seem comfortable.”
Sanger cross-examines Steven Fleming again and thanks him for his military service.
Sanger asks why Fleming didn’t describe Paul Flores as a “creep” or “fucking weird” in his 1999 FBI interview, if he felt that way in 2021. Fleming says he felt that way but didn’t say it at that time. Sanger says Fleming was not 100% sure it was Paul Flores he saw. Fleming says, “I know it was Paul.”
Sanger says that by calling Paul Flores a “creep” and a “fucker” in his 2021 interview, he had clearly formed an opinion. Fleming says, “Okay? This is America.” Sanger says, “This is also a court where my client is being accused of murder.”
Harold Mesick cross-examines Steven Fleming again, and asks if Kristin Smart asked Paul Flores to leave when he was in her room and Fleming said she looked uncomfortable. Fleming says he does not know, because he didn’t stop to see.
Prosecutor Peuvrelle redirects and asks if Steven Fleming is 100% sure it was Paul Flores he saw. The Judge overrules Sanger’s objection that the question is leading. Fleming says, “It was Paul.”
Robert Sanger cross-examines Steven Fleming again, and asks, “So before you weren’t 100% sure, but now you’re 100% sure?” Fleming says yes.
Prosecutor Peuvrelle redirects and asks why Fleming feels so certain now. Fleming says now that he sees Flores in the courtroom, “I recognize Paul. Paul was in Kristin’s room.”
Steven Fleming is excused and the court takes a lunch break at 11:58am
Back on the record at 1:42pm, the Prosecution calls Matt **** to the stand
Prosecutor Peuvrelle establishes that on May 24th, 1996, Matt **** was living in the Sierra Madre dorms when he attended at party at 135 Crandall Way. Matt says he arrived at the party around 9pm with his roommate, Ross ****, and stayed until around midnight.
Matt says that early in the night, a woman came up to him at the party. He identifies Kristin Smart from People’s Exhibit 3, a photo of Kristin Smart taken in the Spring of 1996 when her hair was dyed brown. He says Kristin appeared slightly intoxicated when she came up to him and asked if Ross thought she was attractive. He told her that he didn’t know. She asked Matt if he found her attractive, and he said yes. Soon after Kristin walked away, a man came up to him, who he identifies in the courtroom as Paul Flores, and asked if Matt knew whether Kristin and Ross were ‘together’. Matt says Paul seemed interested in her and clearly found her attractive.
Matt says that when he and Ross left the party around midnight, they observed Kristin Smart laid out on the lawn, and told her she needed to leave. Kristin replied that she didn’t want to leave. Matt says he was concerned about her, and that she appeared far more intoxicated than she had been earlier in the night.
Peuvrelle asks if it would refresh Matt’s memory to read a report following an interview he gave in 1998. Matt says it would. The Judge overrules Sanger’s objection that it’s improper to ask a witness if something would refresh their memory before they’ve seen it.
After reading his previous statement, Matt confirms that Kristin’s exact words when he and Ross tried to get her off of the lawn were: “Leave me here. Leave me alone.”
Sanger cross-examines Matt ****
Sanger asks Matt how many times he has spoken to law enforcement. Matt says 2 or 3. Sanger asks why Matt recently spoke to D.A. investigators when they contacted him but chose not to talk with the Defense’s Private Investigator. Matt says it was a ‘personal decision’.
Sanger puts Defense Exhibit A (the small aerial map of Cal Poly) on the projector and asks Matt to identify where his dorm building was. He has Matt put an X near where the Crandall Way party was held. Sanger spends a long time asking Matt to identify various routes that could be taken from Crandall Way to the dorms.
Sanger asks if Matt recalls describing Paul Flores to investigators as ‘socially awkward’. Matt says yes. Sanger asks if Matt is aware that Paul Flores ‘stutters badly’. Matt says he was not aware, but that he also stutters.
Sanger asks if Matt saw Kristin Smart kissing anyone at the party. He says he saw her kiss his friend, Trevor Boelter, and that she also kissed his roommate, Ross **** at some point. Sanger asks if Matt saw Kristin going into the bathroom with men at the party. Matt says he did not, but he heard about it later. Sanger goes through a list of men he claims Kristin was dating, and Matt says he did not know any of them or see them at the party. Sanger asks about Scott Peterson, and Matt asks, “The one in prison?” He says he did not see Peterson at the party on Crandall Way.
Harold Mesick cross-examines Matt ****
Mesick asks Matt if he thought Kristin Smart was under the influence when she spoke to him. Matt says yes. Mesick asks if Matt saw Kristin drinking tequila. He says he did not, and did not see any tequila or vodka at the party. Mesick asks if anyone at the party was dancing, and Matt says he doesn’t think so.
Matt **** is excused at 2:24pm
Prosecutor Peuvrelle calls Cheryl **** to the stand
Peuvrelle establishes that on May 24th, 1996, Cheryl **** was living in the Sierra Madre dorms when she attended at party at 135 Crandall Way. She says she arrived around 8 or 9pm and does not believe she had anything to drink before the party. She estimates that she drank 3 beers during the course of the party.
Peuvrelle puts People’s Exhibit 3 on the projector, the photo of Kristin Smart in Spring of 1996 with dyed brown hair, and Cheryl identifies her as Kristin Smart. She says she recalls seeing Kristin at the party but doesn’t remember when she first saw her. She recalls that Kristin was wearing ‘black shorts’. Peuvrelle asks if it would refresh her memory to see a report from an earlier interview where she described what Kristin was wearing. The Judge overrules Sanger’s objection that this calls for speculation. Cheryl reviews the report and then recalls that Kristin Smart was wearing a gray half-shirt, black vinyl shorts, and red Puma shoes.
Peuvrelle asks if Cheryl saw Paul Flores at the party. She says yes, and identifies Paul Flores in the courtroom. He asks if she interacted with Paul at the party and she says she cannot remember. He shows her an earlier report, and then Cheryl recalls that Paul Flores came up to her at the party and put his arm around her. She says it was not welcome, and she walked away from him.
Cheryl says that when the party broke up, her other friends had gone home, and her friend, Tim Davis, offered to walk her back to her dorm. At some point, Tim helped Kristin Smart up off of the lawn, and they all decided to walk back together. Peuvrelle asks Cheryl what she observed about Kristin’s affect, and she says that Kristin was ‘definitely intoxicated’, and was stumbling, having trouble standing, and her speech was impacted.
Cheryl says that she was mostly sober by this point in the night. She says that Paul Flores joined their group ‘pretty quickly’, and said something like, “I’ll walk back also.” She says Paul put his arm around Kristin’s waist to help her walk back. She says the three of them stopped several times along the walk back, and each time, Paul told her she could go on ahead. Cheryl says she told him that she didn’t want to walk back alone. Cheryl estimates that the walk back to the area of the dorms took them approximately 15 minutes. She says that when they reached the corner of Perimeter Road and Grand Ave., Paul asked her for a kiss. She said no, and Paul said, “How about a hug?” She said no. Cheryl says she asked Paul if he was going to get Kristin safely back to her dorm, and he said he would.
Peuvrelle shows Cheryl a summary of her prior statement to investigators, and asks her to clarify whether she asked Paul if he would get Kristin “back to her dorm safely” or “back to her dorm room safely”. She says she asked if he would get her back to her dorm room safely. He said yes.
Afternoon break at 2:47pm
Back on the record at 3:10pm
Prosecutor Peuvrelle shows Cheryl **** a large photo of the Cal Poly campus, and asks her to draw the route they took to the dorms that night. She does, but says she can’t recall exactly where they turned to get to Perimeter Road. Cheryl is also unable to recall whether the walk was uphill, and whether or not Kristin Smart spoke during the course of the walk.
Peuvrelle asks what Cheryl’s last image of Kristin Smart was that night. Cheryl says at the corner of Grand and Perimeter, Paul Flores had his arm around Kristin’s waist and she was intoxicated.
Sanger cross-examines Cheryl ****
Sanger asks Cheryl how many times she was interviewed by law enforcement, and she says several. He asks if Prosecutor Peuvrelle interviewed her after she was subpoenaed, and she says he did not. Sanger asks why Cheryl refused to talk to the Defense’s Private Investigator. Cheryl says she was asked if she would ‘like to give a statement’ and she said no.
Sanger asks Cheryl if she has watched any of the television shows about Kristin Smart’s disappearance. She says she has watched some. He asks her if she has listened to ‘the podcast’. She says yes. He asks her if she knows what the podcast is called. She says, “Your Own Backyard”. He asks her if she has ever spoken to Chris Lambert. She says no. He asks if she is aware that Chris Lambert has made this case into “his own personal crusade”. The Judge sustains Peuvrelle’s objection that the question is argumentative. Sanger asks if Cheryl is aware that the podcast has a certain “point of view” and is speculative. The Judge sustains Peuvrelle’s objection that the question is argumentative.
Sanger asks Cheryl if she has ever spoken to Dennis Mahon. She says he came to her house, but she didn’t talk to him.
Sanger asks if she remembers telling Sheriff’s Detective Henry Steward that she didn’t see Paul Flores touching Kristin Smart inappropriately. Cheryl says that is correct. Sanger asks if she recalls telling Sheriff’s detectives that she asked Paul Flores, “Are you going to take Kristin all the way to her dorm?” Cheryl says yes. Sanger asks whether she said “dorm” or “dorm room”. She says she does not remember, but recalls saying “dorm room”. Sanger says that she didn’t say “dorm room” in her earlier testimony. The Judge sustains Peuvrelle’s objection that this is misstating her testimony.
Sanger asks Cheryl how much she weighed in May of 1996. Cheryl says she doesn’t recall. He asks her if 120 lbs. is a fair estimate. Cheryl says, “Roughly.” He asks if she consumed 3 or 4 beers at 120 lbs. She says yes.
Sanger asks Cheryl if Kristin was using the name Roxy at the party. Cheryl says she heard that later, but does not recall if she heard it that night.
Sanger asks if Cheryl knew Paul Flores by name before that night. She says yes. She says she had a class with him and had seen him at other parties.
Sanger goes through a list of men he claims Kristin was dating, and Cheryl says she does not remember any of those names. Sanger asks about Scott Peterson, and Cheryl says she only knows who he is from the media.
Harold Mesick cross-examines Cheryl ****
Mesick asks Cheryl if the party was a ‘frat party’. She says it was not, but there were members of Kappa Chi at the party.
Mesick asks if there was any alcohol at the party besides beer. Cheryl says she doesn’t remember any other alcohol being there.
Mesick asks if Cheryl saw Kristin at the party before Tim Davis helped her up off of the lawn. Cheryl says she does not remember. Mesick says that Kristin was tall and asks how Cheryl didn’t notice her. She says she doesn’t remember noticing her until after the party.
Mesick asks if Cheryl heard Kristin referred to as ‘the vinyl shorts girl’. Cheryl says she doesn’t recall hearing that.
Mesick asks if Kristin could have been wearing red Adidas shoes rather than red Pumas. Cheryl says she doesn’t know.
Mesick asks if anyone threw up during the walk back to the dorms. Cheryl says no.
Mesick asks if Cheryl trusted Paul Flores when he told her that he would get Kristin back to her dorm. Cheryl says she felt that he was going to take her back.
Mesick asks if Cheryl’s memory has been affected by all of the news programs regarding the case. Cheryl says her recollection the walk back to the dorms has not been affected.
Mesick asks Cheryl to guess how many people were at the party that night. Cheryl estimated 40-50. Mesick asks if there were ‘more boys than girls’ at the party. Cheryl says that is likely. He asks if she has ‘no clear recollection’ of tequila or vodka being on the counter. Cheryl says she knows she didn’t have any. He asks her if she was drinking beer from a bottle or a cup. She says a cup. Mesick asks if Cheryl was offered any shots that night. She says no.
Mesick asks Cheryl if she was ‘fine’ leaving Kristin Smart with Paul Flores. Cheryl says, “It was a short distance.” Mesick asks if Cheryl if she has any personal knowledge of what happened to Kristin Smart. She says she does not.
Peuvrelle redirects Cheryl **** and asks if she saw Paul Flores and Kristin Smart walk away together. She says that she did.
Cheryl **** is excused at 3:54pm and the court takes a 10-minute break
Back on the record at 4:09pm
Prosecutor Peuvrelle calls Sheriff’s Detective Clint Cole to the stand
Peuvrelle establishes that in February 2021, Detective Cole sought a photo negative of Paul Flores’ May 27, 1996 booking photo from the Arroyo Grande Police Department, but was told they did not have it. Cole then contacted James Murphy’s Law Office and learned that they had obtained the photo negative. He collected the negative on February 3, 2021 and had it blown up to 16” x 25”. He says he picked up the photo and negative on February 10, 2021, took them back to his office and booked them into evidence.
Peuvrelle says he and Sanger have stipulated that Peuvrelle can display the photo for the preliminary hearing only. Sanger objects and says that he no longer agrees now that he has learned that the negative was not given to Detective Cole by the Arroyo Grande Police Department. The Judge overrules, but Sanger asks if he can cross-examine Detective Cole before the photo is shown. The Judge agrees.
Sanger cross-examines Detective Clint Cole, and asks if he wrote a report on the photo negative. Cole says he did.
Cole says he went to the Arroyo Grande Police Department to request the photo negative. They no longer had the negative, but did have the paperwork regarding the photo and Paul Flores’ booking. Sanger asks Detective Cole to review the paperwork he was given by the Arroyo Grande Police Department.
Sanger asks Detective Cole who he spoke to at James Murphy’s Law Office when he collected the photo negative. Cole says he spoke to Sandy Arnold, a legal assistant, and Garin Murphy, the office manager.
Sanger objects to the use of two of the pages from Arroyo Grande Police Department, and the photo. The Judge says he will not rule now, but will adjourn for the day and continue tomorrow.
Off the record at 4:26pm
[Spoiler/]
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Yogurt
Emerald
Posts: 11,889 Likes: 42,317
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Post by Yogurt on Aug 4, 2021 22:01:25 GMT -6
DAY 3 This text was transcribed from handwritten notes taken in the courtroom. They are not verbatim. On the record at 9:17am
Detective Clint Cole retakes the stand. The Judge has had a chance to review the documents from Arroyo Grande Police Department regarding the booking photo of Paul Flores from 5/27/96.
Exhibit 21 is the AGPD arrest report from when Paul Flores was booked and released for an outstanding DUI warrant on 5/27/96. Defense attorneys Robert Sanger and Harold Mesick do not object to this report being received into evidence.
Exhibit 4 is a copy of the booking photograph. Detective Cole testifies that the original 3” x 5” photograph was saved by Arroyo Grande Police Department for ‘a period of time’ and then sent to the San Luis Obispo Sheriff’s Office.
Exhibit 20 is a report from Arroyo Grande Police Officer Smiley, certifying that Exhibit 4 is a true copy of the original 3” x 5” booking photograph. Sanger objects that it is only Officer Smiley’s opinion.
Exhibit 22 is a certified report from the Custodian of Records at the Arroyo Grande Police Department which states that Exhibit 4 is a “true and accurate copy” of the original 3” x 5” booking photo.
Peuvrelle references Evidence Code 1531 to support the documents and photo being received into evidence.
Sanger says that 1531 does not authorize a Custodian of Records to say “something is similar to something else” in evidence. Sanger asks if the Judge is aware of the significance of the 5/27/96 booking photo. Judge van Rooyen says he understands it regards bruising under Paul Flores’ eye. Sanger says the original photo was apparently not preserved by Arroyo Grande Police Department, and that San Luis Obispo Sheriff’s Department was given something that “appears to be the photograph” (the 3” x 5” print) and they tried to enhance it but were unable to. James Murphy’s office then contacted San Luis Obispo Sheriff’s Department to say that they had the original negative. “All we know is that the negative came from the Plaintiff’s lawyers, and was given to “bloggers” to put on the internet.” He says the Prosecution is making a “leap of faith” in chain of custody. “It is extremely important that the evidence be reliable.”
Harold Mesick says that it’s “not impossible to alter a negative”.
Judge sustains the Defense’s objection for the time being, without prejudice, and says he will need to hear from other witnesses who can testify to seeing the bruising at the time.
Prosecutor Peuvrelle continues his questioning of Detective Clint Cole
Detective Cole says that former Sheriff’s Detective Steve Crawford obtained the original 3” x 5” booking photo from the Arroyo Grande Police Department and booked it as evidence. Peuvrelle clarifies that the photo was “not lost in a box somewhere”, and Cole confirms that it stayed in evidence at the Sheriff’s Department except when it was briefly examined by a doctor in 1999.
Cole says multiple attempts were made to analyze the original 3” x 5” print, but it was too difficult to enhance, so after obtaining the negative from James Murphy’s Law Office, he had it printed at 16” x 25”. Sanger asks if Cole had the enlargement printed at “a place with the unfortunate name of “The Photo Shop”. Cole says that’s correct.
Judge van Rooyen rules that there is currently a lack of foundation to admit Exhibit 4 (a copy of the original 3” x 5” print). Prosecutor Peuvrelle says his intent is to establish a foundation with the next witness.
Prosecutor Peuvrelle calls Lawrence Michael Kennedy to the stand
Peuvrelle establishes that from 1985 to 2003, “Mike” Kennedy was an investigator for the Cal Poly Campus Police Department. Kennedy says he was called on Monday, May 27th, 1996 by Cal Poly Officer Scott Pearl, who informed Kennedy that a student was being reported missing by dormmates. On May 28th, Kennedy came in to work and got the information that a Missing Person Report had been filed.
Kennedy says that on June 21, 1996, he interviewed a Cal Poly student named Javier ****, who told Kennedy that he knew Paul Flores and ate dinner with him a couple times a week. Peuvrelle asks if Javier told Kennedy anything about Paul Flores interacting with a girl at a party. Kennedy says he cannot recall, and reads from a report to refresh his memory. Kennedy then recalls that Javier told him that Paul Flores said “the missing person was flirting with him at the party”. Paul reportedly told Javier that he did not walk Kristin back to her dorm, but split from her at the same time that he split from Cheryl Anderson. Javier also told Kennedy that Paul Flores had an injury to his right eye, which he told Javier he got during a basketball game.
Kennedy says that on June 22, 1996, he interviewed Paul Flores’ Santa Lucia Hall roommate, Derrick Tse. Tse told Kennedy that he was gone over Memorial Day Weekend and returned on Tuesday, May 28th. Tse told Kennedy that Paul Flores told him he had walked Kristin Smart back to “an area near her residence hall” before separating from her. Peuvrelle asks what Tse said Paul Flores told him about Kristin Smart’s current whereabouts when they spoke, and Kennedy says Tse told him Paul Flores said, “She’s home with my parents.”
Peuvrelle asks Kennedy what Tse said about Paul Flores’ behavior when he was drinking. The Judge sustains Sanger’s objection that the question asks for an opinion and is without a foundation.
Kennedy says that on May 28th, 1996, he spoke with Paul Flores in his dorm room. Paul Flores was not handcuffed or detained, and agreed to speak. He describes Paul’s demeanor as ‘nervous’, and says it “appeared his heart was pounding. He appeared nervous to me.” Kennedy says that during that interview, Paul told him that he walked with ‘the missing person’ up the hill, she went off to her residence hall and he went off to his. Paul says he entered Santa Lucia Hall through the front door, and estimates it was around 3am. Kennedy says Paul Flores told him that he didn’t know Kristin prior to this night, and that he had “given her two hugs while walking up the hill”. Peuvrelle asks if Kennedy noticed any physical attributes of Paul Flores during this first interview, and Kennedy says Paul had a “mark or discoloration under his right eye”.
Peuvrelle presents People’s Exhibit 4 (a color copy of the 3” x 5” booking photo of Paul Flores taken by Arroyo Grande Police Department on May 27, 1996) to Kennedy. Kennedy says the photo is ‘very close’ to Paul’s appearance when he interviewed him in his dorm room on May 28th, except Paul was wearing a t-shirt during their interview. Peuvrelle publishes People’s Exhibit 4 on the courtroom projector.
Peuvrelle presents People’s Exhibit 327 (the 16” x 25” enlargement made from the photo negative Detective Clint Cole collected from James Murphy’s Law Office) to Kennedy. Kennedy is asked to unwrap the exhibit from plastic wrapping. Kennedy identifies the exhibit as a photo of Paul Flores. Sanger objects that he has not seen the enlarged photo. Sanger is shown the photo and objects that it “came from a different source” than People’s Exhibit 4. The Judge overrules the objection.
Peuvrelle asks if Kennedy can see bruising under Paul Flores’ right eye in the enlarged photo. Kennedy says, “I do see it.”
Peuvrelle establishes that Kennedy contacted Paul Flores on May 30th, and interviewed alongside Cal Poly Officer Robert Cudworth. Peuvrelle asks for a 5-10 minute break to set up audio.
Break at 10:17am
Back on the record at 10:36am
Prosecutor Peuvrelle enters People’s Exhibit 32, a cassette tape recording of a Cal Poly Police interview of Paul Flores, conducted by Detective Mike Kennedy and Officer Robert Cudworth on May 30, 1996.
Detective Kennedy asks Paul Flores to describe the walk from the Crandall Way party to the dorms, going backwards, starting from when he last saw Kristin Smart. Paul says that on two occasions during the walk, he hugged Kristin “because she was freezing”. He says he told ‘the other girl’ that she could go ahead without them if she wanted to. When asked how much he drank that night, Paul responds, “Too much”, and says he “wound up throwing up later on”.
Paul describes Kristin’s behavior at the party as “over flirtatious” and says she was walking up to every guy at the party to introduce herself as ‘Roxy’.
Kennedy asks Paul if he has a nickname around the halls. Paul says “Paul-O” or “Paulina” or “Paulie Shore”. Kennedy says the nickname he has heard from several people is ‘Chester the Molester’. Paul sounds shocked and says, “What?!” He says no one has ever called him this that he’s aware of.
Paul says someone else saw him in the Santa Lucia Hall bathroom around 5am, but he doesn’t know who it was. Kennedy tells him he needs to find the person, and Paul says, “Right, that would be my alibi.”
Kennedy asks if Paul would be willing to take a polygraph, or lie detector test, if it came down to that. Paul says, “Yeah.”
Officer Cudworth asks Paul how he got the scratches on his knees (“Those look fresh.”) and Paul says he got them playing basketball with his friend in Arroyo Grande on Monday, May 27th. Detective Kennedy asks Paul to take his hat off, and notes that Paul has a black eye. Paul says he also got the black eye from the basketball game on Monday.
At the end of the tape, Kennedy tells Paul he needs to see if he can find the person who was in the bathroom with him at 5am, and he needs to find a way to establish the time that he left that night and the time that he returned to his dorm room.
At the end of the tape, another interview with Tim Davis starts to play. Sanger objects that he has an issue with the tape being received into evidence if it contains more than just the interview of Paul Flores. The Judge asks the Prosecution to make a new copy of the audio with only Paul Flores’ interview, after which it can be entered into evidence as People’s Exhibit 32B.
Prosecutor Peuvrelle presents witness Kennedy with People’s Exhibits 6, 7, and 8.
Exhibit 6 is a hand drawn map of the location where Paul Flores claims to have separated from Kristin Smart. It is initialed by Detective Mike Kennedy and Paul Flores, and dated May 30, 1996.
Exhibit 7 is a photograph of that same hand drawn map.
Exhibit 8 is a printed map of the Cal Poly campus.
Prosecutor Peuvrelle asks if he can publish Exhibit 8 on the courtroom projector. Sanger objects because the map has unidentified handwriting on it. Peuvrelle asks if he can publish Exhibits 6 and 7. The Judge asks if Sanger has any objections, and he says he is not sure. Sanger objects that there is no foundation, and the Judge overrules the objection.
Peuvrelle publishes Exhibit 6 on the courtroom projector. Kennedy explains that it is a rough drawing of the intersection of Perimeter Road and Grand Avenue. Kennedy says he drew it in front of Paul Flores during his May 30th interview. A small circle on the map shows the last place Paul claims to have seen Kristin Smart, on a pathway between Sequoia Hall and Santa Lucia Hall, and an arrow showing the direction she was walking.
Peuvrelle establishes that Kennedy obtained the phone records for Santa Lucia Hall Room 128, occupied by Paul Flores and Derrick Tse. He marks the phone records as People’s Exhibit 35.
Peuvrelle hands Kennedy People’s Exhibits 14 and 9.
Exhibit 14 is a color copy of four 3” x 5” photographs depicting the front door, mattresses, vantage point through the door, and vantage point out of the door of Santa Lucia Hall Room 128, taken on June 24, 1996 by San Luis Obispo Sheriff’s Detective Rick Neufeld, in the presence of Detective Mike Kennedy.
Exhibit 9 is a color copy of four 3” x 5” photographs depicting a desk and corner of the bed on the left side of the room, the bed on the right side of the room, a desk and closed, and the bed on the left side of Room 128 in Santa Lucia Hall.
Peuvrelle asks to publish the exhibits on the courtroom projector. Sanger objects that there is a lack of foundation, but the Judge overrules it. Peuvrelle publishes the exhibits.
Peuvrelle asks Kennedy if he was present when four cadaver dogs searched Santa Lucia Hall on June 29, 1996. Kennedy says that he was present when the fourth dog went through, and alerted on the wastebasket in the room. Kennedy says he then placed the wastebasket in the hallway, and set it alongside two identical wastebaskets from Room 118. The cadaver dog again alerted on the wastebasket from Room 128.
Defense Attorney Robert Sanger cross-examines Mike Kennedy
Sanger asks if Kennedy had ever handled a missing person case before Kristin Smart’s. Kennedy says he did, and describes one significant case where a couple was stranded in the snow in Utah for two days. Sanger asks if the people were found, and Kennedy says they were. Sanger asks if Kennedy ever handled a murder investigation, and he says no.
Sanger asks if Kennedy spoke to Stan Smart, Kristin’s father, on several occasions, and Kennedy says he did. Sanger asks Stan complimented his work. The Judge sustains Peuvrelle’s relevance objection.
Sanger refers to the taped interview from May 30th, 1996, and describes it as “more of an interrogation than an interview, was it not?” The Judge overrules Peuvrelle’s objection that the question is argumentative. Kennedy says he considered it an interview. Sanger asks if the difference between an interview and an interrogation is that an interview is for the purposes of obtain information, and an interrogation is an attempt to get a suspect to confess. Kennedy says he was gathering info.
Sanger asks if when Kennedy first interviewed Paul Flores in his dorm room on May 28th if he observed any blood on the bed or the walls. Kennedy says he did not. Sanger asks if Kennedy showed Paul his badge and Kennedy says he doesn’t believe he did, but he identified himself as a police officer.
Sanger asks if Paul explained to Kennedy why he was so nervous during his interview. Kennedy says Paul told him he thought he was there to arrest him for his outstanding DUI warrant.
Sanger asks Kennedy if Paul told him that he walked ‘the missing person’ to the pathway between Sequoia Hall and Santa Lucia Hall, and then went to his room and fell asleep. Kennedy says he did. Sanger asks Kennedy if Paul volunteered that fact that he gave her two hugs while walking up the hill. Kennedy says he did. Sanger asks if Paul was cooperative during his interviews, and Kennedy says he was.
Sanger asks if Kennedy had already interviewed 25 people before speaking to Paul Flores on May 30th. Kennedy says it’s a fair estimate.
Lunch break at 11:55am
Back on the record at 1:39pm
Sanger continues his cross-examination of former Cal Poly Detective Lawrence Michael Kennedy
Sanger refers back to People’s Exhibits 14 and 9 (color copies of 3” x 5” photographs showing Santa Lucia Hall Room 128 on June 24, 1996) and asks Kennedy if the photos where taken around the time that he was in the room. Kennedy says he was with Detective Rick Neufeld when he took the photos.
Sanger asks how long the room had been unoccupied at the time the photographs were taken. Kennedy says he does not know, but perhaps a couple of weeks. Sanger asks if Kennedy knows how many people had been in that dorm room between the time Paul Flores moved out and when Kennedy first entered the room. Kennedy says he does not know, but the room was sealed with yellow evidence tape. Sanger asks if somebody cleaned the room, and Kennedy says he doesn’t know. Sanger asks if Cal Poly exchanges furniture from room to room. Kennedy says the furniture is sometimes stored in a warehouse, but is not exchanged from room to room.
Sanger publishes Defense Exhibit A (an aerial layout of Cal Poly circa 1996). He asks Kennedy to circle and initial Sequoia Hall. He asks Kennedy to circle and initial Santa Lucia Hall. He asks Kennedy to identify the walkway between the two building where Paul Flores claimed he last saw Kristin Smart.
Sanger asks if Kennedy is aware that by the time he interviewed Paul’s roommate, Derrick Tse, on June 22nd, that there was already plenty of talk around campus and publicity that Paul Flores was the last person to see Kristin Smart. Kennedy says that’s correct. Sanger asks if Tse told him he was “joking” with Paul when he was told, “She’s home with my parents.” Kennedy says that’s what his report says.
Sanger asks if Kennedy took notes during his interview with Derrick Tse. Kennedy says he did. Sanger asks if he kept them, and Kennedy says yes. Sanger asks if he still has them, and Kennedy says he kept all of his notes in a binder, which remained at Cal Poly when he retired in 2003.
Briefly off the record at 2:10pm
Back on the record at 2:12pm
Detective Clint Cole searched through a packet containing Cal Poly Police files and was unable to find any of Detective Mike Kennedy’s notes.
Sanger resumes his cross-examination of Detective Mike Kennedy
Sanger asks Kennedy if there was speculation among students that Kristin Smart may have gotten into a car “with a male and drove off”. Kennedy says that is one scenario that was discussed.
Sanger asks Kennedy if he is familiar with a Brian ****, who worked as a Community Service Officer for Cal Poly Police. Kennedy says yes. Sanger asks if Brian helped with the Kristin Smart investigation, and Kennedy says he looked up information and walked the route from Crandall Way to the dorms. Sanger asks if Kennedy was aware that Brian attended a party where Kristin Smart was also present. Kennedy says he recalls that one of the CSOs told him he had been at a party with Kristin Smart. Kennedy refers to his report and recalls that Brian **** told him he saw Kristin Smart at a party on Thursday night, the day before the Crandall Way party. Sanger asks Kennedy if he is aware of what happened to Brian **** after that. Kennedy says last he heard, Brian was working for the Pasadena Police Department. Sanger asks if Kennedy is aware that Brian **** has since been convicted of a sex crime. Kennedy says he did not know that.
Sanger asks if Kennedy spoke to ‘Alyssa’, a friend of Kristin Smart’s from Hawaii. Kennedy says he did, after getting her name from Denise Smart. Sanger asks if ‘Alyssa’ told Kennedy that Kristin went missing during the time she was in Hawaii. Kennedy recalls that she said Kristin flew to one island rather than the one she was expected to go to.
Sanger asks if Kennedy received info about a student named ‘Yanish’, who was caught peeping into Kristin Smart’s window on several occasions. Kennedy says he was not aware of that.
Sanger returns to Kennedy’s telephone interview with Kristin’s friend ‘Alyssa’, and asks if he recalls what she said. The Judge overrules Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection. Kennedy says ‘Alyssa’ told him that when Kristin Smart returned to Hawaii during the Winter of 1995 for a Christmas reunion at Camp Mokule’ia, she was walking around with several men. Peuvrelle objects to the next portion of Kennedy’s report, and Sanger insists that he or Kennedy should read from it. Judge van Rooyen calls a sidebar to discuss the issue privately in chambers at 2:34pm.
Judge van Rooyen and counsel return to the courtroom at 2:53pm
The Judge overrules the objection and instructs Sanger to lead the witness through the questions as they discussed in chambers.
Sanger asks if Kennedy called ‘Alyssa’ in Hawaii and she described Kristin Smart as “carefree, outgoing, spontaneous and boy-crazy”. He asks if ‘Alyssa’ told him that Kristin ‘disappeared’ several times at night and would return the next morning. Kennedy says that is correct.
Sanger asks if ‘Alyssa’ told Kennedy that Kristin “had a crush on a camp counselor and spent a lot of money on him”. Kennedy says that is correct.
Sanger asks if ‘Alyssa’ told Kennedy that Kristin walked around at a party “making provocative comments to several males”. Kennedy says that is correct.
Sanger asks if ‘Alyssa’ told Kennedy that Kristin ‘disappeared’ with a male in Hawaii and ‘Alyssa’ believed they “had sex on the beach”. Kennedy says that is correct.
The Judge calls for a 15-minute break at 2:59pm. Instead, the break lasts 47 minutes.
Back on the record at 3:46pm
Defense Attorney Sanger says that Prosecutor Peuvrelle and Detective Clint Cole have located Detective Mike Kennedy’s handwritten notes from 1996 on microfiche. Sanger requests to adjourn for the day and continue tomorrow morning, once the notes can be produced.
Witness Lawrence Michael Kennedy is excused for the day at 3:48pm
Sanger asks that they re-designate their exhibits by new numbers to make things easier for the court clerk. Sanger will use exhibit code 601, and Mesick will use exhibit code 801. The Judge agrees.
The Prosecution has created a new audio disc which contains only Paul Flores’ Cal Poly interview. Peuvrelle says he has not listened to the disc. The Judge requests that Peuvrelle listen to the disc before it is accepted into evidence as Exhibit 32B.
The Judge addresses Sanger’s request to unseal a ‘Defense Motion to Traverse, Quash, and Suppress’ filed on August 2nd.
Peuvrelle objects to unsealing the documents on the basis that the motions are not finalized, as the Prosecution plans to file additional motions.
Sanger does not believe there is a legal basis for continuing to seal the motion now that the Preliminary Hearing has started.
Mesick says the motion contains a “vast amount of exculpatory evidence”, and since there has “already been a verdict made by the public”, he joins Sanger’s motion to unseal. The Judge responds, “I don’t know about all of that”, but he agrees to unseal the pleadings regarding search warrant affidavits.
The Judge says that in chambers, all parties discussed the scope of Mike Kennedy’s testimony regarding his interview with ‘Alyssa’, and all parties complied during the subsequent inquiry.
Prosecutor Peuvrelle says the Preliminary Hearing is going slower than he anticipated, and as such, he now expects it to take the entire month of August. Sanger agrees but says he made need to request at least one of those days off.
Off the record at 4:05pm [Spoiler/]
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auburn
Sapphire
Posts: 3,558 Likes: 12,880
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Post by auburn on Aug 5, 2021 22:47:52 GMT -6
Are they really going to try to say Scott Peterson killed her? WTF.
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
Posts: 52,186 Likes: 296,694
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Post by McBenny on Aug 6, 2021 6:10:06 GMT -6
Are they really going to try to say Scott Peterson killed her? WTF. this was looked into over the years. It's not the first mention is all I'm saying.
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joy
Global Moderator
TTC, Pg, B&C
Posts: 9,194 Likes: 41,673
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Post by joy on Aug 6, 2021 6:17:04 GMT -6
I think it's fairly clear that he is garbage and he probably killed her. I still really hate the "creepy" and "Psycho Paul" stuff. I wondered how much consideration Chris Lambert gave to highlighting this aspect of the narrative. So much ableism in the constant mention of the speech impediment and I wondered how much trauma Paul endured from Ruben and childhood teasing that contributed to his severely antisocial and predatory behavior. And I feel so gross feeling "bad" for Paul. Way late… but, it’s a sign of maturity to be able to have both empathy and disgust for a person. You can hate the crimes that they committed and know they have no excuse but also feel compassion and empathy for how a person grew to be the monster that they are. Don’t feel too gross about yourself.
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auburn
Sapphire
Posts: 3,558 Likes: 12,880
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Post by auburn on Aug 6, 2021 6:22:17 GMT -6
Are they really going to try to say Scott Peterson killed her? WTF. this was looked into over the years. It's not the first mention is all I'm saying. Right, but there is absolutely no evidence that he had anything to do with it. Scott Peterson is a piece of shit, for sure, but not because of this. They’re also trying to say she was a whore and/or that she just ran off. I know why they are doing it, but I’m still grossed out by it.
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
Posts: 52,186 Likes: 296,694
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Post by McBenny on Aug 6, 2021 6:43:46 GMT -6
this was looked into over the years. It's not the first mention is all I'm saying. Right, but there is absolutely no evidence that he had anything to do with it. Scott Peterson is a piece of shit, for sure, but not because of this. They’re also trying to say she was a whore and/or that she just ran off. I know why they are doing it, but I’m still grossed out by it. there are a few missing women in the area. Peterson defense brought it up too. It's their job. Reasonable doubt and all.
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Yogurt
Emerald
Posts: 11,889 Likes: 42,317
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Post by Yogurt on Aug 6, 2021 9:35:48 GMT -6
DAY 4 This text was transcribed from handwritten notes taken in the courtroom. They are not verbatim. On the record at 9:14am
Prosecutor Peuvrelle calls Detective Lawrence “Mike” Kennedy back to the stand
Defense Attorney Robert Sanger asks to address an issue. He says he has obtained around 500 pages of Detective Kennedy’s notes from his investigation. He notes that there are older Bates stamp numbers on some pages as well as newer numbers, and he suspects that the notes were turned over to the Plaintiffs’ lawyer (James Murphy) at some point.
Peuvrelle says the Prosecution is working to make sure all discovery is provided, and that after 25 years of investigation, the files are sometimes ‘a bit of a mess’.
Detective Mike Kennedy takes the stand, and Sanger continues his cross-examination.
Sanger asks if Kennedy has had a chance to review the 500 pages that were turned over last night. Kennedy says he has not.
Sanger asks if Kennedy recalls that Margarita Campos reported receiving a phone call around 2:30am on May 29, 1996, and that Margarita believed it could have been ‘the missing person’ because Kristin Smart had called her ‘late at night’ in the past. Kennedy says he does not recall this, but he sees it in his report. Sanger asks if Margarita claimed it was a ‘female caller’ and that she ‘mumbled something’. Kennedy does not recall this.
Sanger asks if ‘a good deal’ of Cal Poly’s investigation dealt with ‘sightings’ of Kristin Smart. Kennedy says that’s correct.
Sanger asks if his notes indicate that there was a certain point at which the focus of the investigation changed. Kennedy reads from a log that on May 31, 1996, it was determined that Cal Poly Police would continue to the look into the ‘missing person’ portion of the case, while the District Attorney’s Office would be looking into Paul Flores.
Sanger asks if a meeting with “mental health care” was cancelled after the focus of the investigation changed. Kennedy says they were only looking at ‘missing person’ information. Sanger asks if after May 31, 1996, the focus of the investigation was only on Paul Flores. Kennedy says no, the District Attorney’s Office handled the investigation of Paul Flores, while Cal Poly followed up on “any lead we received”.
Sanger asks if Kennedy recalls a man named Shahn ****, who ‘lit Kristin’s shoes on fire’ and left them on her doorstep with “a mean note”. Kennedy says he does not recall that. Sanger asks if Kennedy recalls anything about a boyfriend or any male who set Kristin’s shoes on fire. Kennedy says it does not ring a bell.
Sanger asks if Kennedy remembers a man named Ted ****, who was ‘in Kristin Smart’s room on the night of her disappearance’. Kennedy says he does not remember that name.
Sanger asks if Kennedy remembers a woman named Jana **** who ‘spent the night in Kristin Smart’s dorm room with Ted **** on the night’ of her disappearance. Kennedy says he does not remember hearing that.
Sanger asks if Kennedy remembers a man named Felipe ****, a man who Kristin “spent the [Thursday] night before the party with” in Trinity Hall. Kennedy does not.
Sanger publishes Defense Exhibit 601, formerly Defense Exhibit A (an aerial map of Cal Poly) on the courtroom projector, and asks Kennedy to identify the location of Trinity Hall. Kennedy cannot recall which dorm building is Trinity Hall.
Sanger asks Kennedy if he is aware that Scott Peterson was a student at Cal Poly in 1996. Kennedy says he is aware. Sanger asks if he is aware of a report that Scott Peterson was at the Crandall Way party on May 24, 1996. The judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s objection that this is not in evidence. Sanger asks if Kennedy investigated a statement that Scott Peterson made to his family. The Judge sustains Peuvrelle’s objection that the question is argumentative. Sanger asks if Kennedy is aware that Peterson “made a statement to his family regarding Kristin Smart”. Kennedy says he was never aware of that, and that Scott Peterson’s name only came up ‘some time later’ from the Sheriff’s Department. Sanger asks if there was any follow-up investigation on Scott Peterson. Kennedy says, “Not from our department.”
Sanger asks about a man named “Yanish”, and asks if there was any effort to find somebody by that name. Kennedy says that name is “not familiar to me at all”. Sanger asks if ‘somebody’ was reported to a Resident Advisor for ‘lurking’. The Judge sustains Peuvrelle’s objection that the question is vague. Sanger asks what the protocol was if someone reported a ‘peeping Tom’ to a Resident Advisor. Kennedy says the R.A. would report the incident to Housing.
Sanger says Prosecution has located Kennedy’s handwritten notes regarding his telephone interview with Kristin’s friend ‘Alyssa’ in Hawaii, and asks if Kennedy followed up with a “particular individual who may have been the subject” of Kristin Smart’s interest during her camp’s Christmas Reunion. Kennedy says he does not recall. Sanger asks if Kennedy recalls that Kristin spent time with a man named ‘Derek’ or ‘Danny’ in Hawaii. Kennedy does not. Sanger asks if Kennedy recalls a man named Aaron **** who Kristin “spent money on” in Hawaii. Kennedy does not recall.
Sanger asks if Cal Poly Police ever developed any other suspects in the Kristin Smart case who were pursued by investigation. Kennedy says they did not.
Sanger asks if Kennedy is aware of a man named Trent ****, who reported that a woman named ‘Roxy’ was involved in a “model slash exotic dancing enterprise”. Kennedy does not recall this.
Sanger produces a letter written by Denise Smart to Kristin Smart on May 5, 1996 and marks it Defense Exhibit 603. He hands it to Kennedy and has him look at it. Kennedy says he has no recollection of the letter. Sanger says he thinks “it might be helpful to have a sidebar”.
Break at 10:06am
Back on the record at 10:37pm
Sanger continues his cross-examination of Detective Mike Kennedy
Sanger asks if Denise Smart’s letter to her daughter made a reference to “lying to them hundreds of times”. Kennedy says he did not notice that. Sanger asks if Kennedy “ever followed up on these ‘lies’”. Kennedy says he does not recall. Sanger says the letter indicates that Kristin had “lost a couple of jobs”, and asks if Kennedy recalls looking into that. Kennedy says the only job he remembers is the one at the pool, and he does not remember why she changed jobs or lost that job. Sanger says that in the letter, Denise Smart suggests that Kristin should “get a job”. Kennedy says he does not recall this. Sanger asks if Kristin Smart was employed in May 1996. Kennedy says he cannot recall.
Sanger references a “brown men’s jacket” on Kristin Smart’s bed labeled “Bay River of San Jose” and asks if it was booked into evidence. Kennedy says he cannot recall. Sanger asks if the jacket may have been returned to Kristin’s father, Stan Smart. Kennedy says it may have been, but he cannot recall.
Sanger asks Kennedy if Stan Smart indicated that Kristin “did not finish high school but went to junior college”. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection.
Sanger asks Kennedy if Stan Smart indicated that Kristin “used to sneak out to see a boy two years older than her”. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection.
Sanger asks if Cal Poly Police generated a flyer seeking information about the disappearance of Kristin Smart. Kennedy says they did. Sanger asks if Kennedy recalls that someone posted other flyers that said WARNING and contained a picture of Paul Flores with his home address on them. Kennedy says he does remember that, and it was of some concern. Sanger asks if those flyers would be appropriate from a law enforcement standpoint. Prosecutor Peuvrelle raises a relevance objection and Sanger withdraws the question. Sanger asks if the flyers were “prompting action” from people. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection.
Sanger asks if there was information obtained during Cal Poly Police’s investigation that they were unable to share with the Smart family. Kennedy says that is correct. Sanger asks if the family’s lawyer attempted to get information from Cal Poly Police. Kennedy says there were constant requests, from the family and the general public, for more information on the case.
Sanger asks Kennedy if he knows of Dennis Mahon. Kennedy says he has heard the name. Sanger asks if he was somebody who “worked with the Smart family”. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection.
Sanger asks if there was an individual named Larry **** who posed as a U.S. Marshal around the Cal Poly campus and asked students for info about the Kristin Smart case. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection.
Sanger says the bottom line is that, as the case progressed, there was a “great deal of public emphasis on Paul Flores, to the exclusion of any other suspect”. Kennedy says that was the public perception.
Defense Attorney Harold Mesick cross-examines Detective Mike Kennedy
Mesick asks Kennedy how many officers worked for the Cal Poly Police Department in May of 1996. Kennedy estimates 11 or 12. Mesick asks how many were directly assigned to the Kristin Smart case. Kennedy says himself, Ray Barrett, and Sergeant Schroeder.
Mesick asks if Kennedy recalls a complaint made to a Resident Advisor regarding a ‘peeping Tom’. Kennedy says he does not.
Mesick asks if Kennedy recalls a pizza deliver moped that went missing around the same time as Kristin Smart, and was later found off campus. Kennedy says he does recall this, but he thought it had been found on campus.
Mesicks asks if there were “close to 100 sightings of Kristin Smart” reported to Cal Poly Police after she went missing. Kennedy says that “sounds about right”. Mesick asks if Kennedy considered any of these sightings particularly credible. Kennedy says he had received information that Kristin Smart liked Taco Bell. He received a tip that a “blonde” was sighted at a Taco Bell in Coalinga.
Mesick asks if Kristin Smart had blonde hair in pictures he received of her. Kennedy says she did. Mesick asks if Kristin Smart was blonde at the time she went missing. Kennedy says he believes her hair was dyed brown at the time.
Mesick asks if Kennedy recalls a “sighting” of Kristin Smart at El Cerro Campground, where a woman saw someone she thought was Kristin Smart, approached her and spoke to her. Kennedy does not recall this. Mesick shows Kennedy a Sheriff’s Department Incident Report and asks him for the date of the “sighting”. The Judge interjects that the witness cannot read from a report someone else took, only reports he took.
Mesick asks if there were “sightings of Kristin Smart hitchhiking up the 101”. Kennedy says he does recall those. Mesick asks if during Kennedy’s interview with ‘Alyssa’ in Hawaii, he learned that Kristin around the island, indicating that she was known to hitchhike. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s objection that the question calls for speculation.
Mesick asks if Cal Poly Police would investigate “sightings” of Kristin Smart as soon as they received them. Kennedy says that’s correct, and they asked other agencies to investigate them as well.
Mesick asks if in all instances of following up on these “sightings”, investigators “didn’t find Kristin Smart”. Kennedy says, “We didn’t find Kristin Smart.”
Mesick asks if Kennedy interviewed a man named Nicholas ****. Kennedy says he does not recall. Mesick shows Kennedy one of his reports, and then asks if Kennedy interviewed a man named Christopher ****. Kennedy says that is correct. Mesick asks if Christopher told Kennedy a story told to him by Kristin Smart. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s objection that this is hearsay. Mesick asks what Kennedy learned after talking with Christopher ****. Kennedy says they were apparently in a dating relationship. Mesick says he is “more interested in the salacious aspect of that report”. He asks Kennedy if the report mentions ‘a location’. Kennedy answers, “Johnson Avenue.” Mesick asks if there may have been sexual activity at that location at some point. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s objection that this is hearsay and irrelevant.
Mesick asks if Kennedy recalls a report from “a lady who heard a scream around 3am”. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s objection that this is hearsay and irrelevant.
Mesick asks if Kennedy received “sightings” of Kristin Smart “overseas or international”. Kennedy says no.
Mesick asks if Kennedy investigated Kristin Smart’s banking or credit card usage. Kennedy says he recalls that there was an $80 withdrawal from her account shortly before Memorial Day weekend.
Mesick asks if during Paul Flores’ interview with Cal Poly Campus Police on May 30, 1996, they had a discussion of a potential alibi. Kennedy says, “Correct. He used the word ‘alibi’.” Mesick asks if investigators ever found any of those witnesses. Kennedy says, “He never supplied them and I never found them.”
Mesick asks if Kennedy was aware of any physical evidence collected from Paul Flores’ dorm room. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s objection that this is hearsay and irrelevant.
Mesick asks if, at the time Kennedy retired in 2003, he still considered this a ‘missing person case’. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection.
Mesick asks at what point investigators considered this case ‘a crime’. Kennedy says after his interview with Paul Flores on May 30, 1996, Cal Poly Campus Police had a meeting the next day to brief District Attorney investigators and discuss them taking over the investigation of Paul Flores.
Prosecutor Christopher Peuvrelle redirects Detective Mike Kennedy
Peuvrelle asks Kennedy how many “sightings” of Kristin Smart were sent to him in total. Kennedy estimates between 75 and 125. Peuvrelle asks, “Did any of those pan out?” Kennedy answers, “They did not.”
Peuvrelle asks Kennedy how many tips about Kristin Smart’s whereabouts were sent to him in total. Kennedy says, “A great number,” and estimates between 100 and 150. Peuvrelle asks, “Did any of those pan out?” Kennedy answers, “None did.”
Peuvrelle asks if the “sightings” at Taco Bells simply described a “tall blonde woman”. Kennedy says that is correct.
Defense Attorney Robert Sanger cross-examines Detective Mike Kennedy
Sanger shows Kennedy a report and asks him to read it. He asks if on June 11, 1996, Kennedy decided to reach out to San Luis Obispo Sheriff’s Department for an “ID Tech”. Kennedy says yes. Sanger asks if an ID Tech is “somebody who could lift fingerprints and collect trace evidence”. Kennedy says that is correct. Sanger asks if on June 13, 1996, Kennedy spoke to an ID Tech at the California Department of Justice lab who said he was ‘backlogged’ and suggested that Sheriff’s Detective Rick Neufeld should fingerprint the room. Kennedy says that is correct. Sanger asks if Detective Neufeld then fingerprinted the room while Kennedy was present on June 24, 1996, thirteen days after he requested an ID Tech. Kennedy says that is correct. Sanger asks Kennedy if thirteen days is “a pretty long time to not examine a scene”. Kennedy says yes.
Sanger asks if Kennedy checked maintenance logs to see what worked was done to Santa Lucia Room 128 between when Paul Flores moved out and when the room was inspected. Kennedy says he spoke to the Assistant Director of Housing and had her close off the room.
Sanger asks if on June 24, 1996 the dorm room appeared as if it had been cleaned. Kennedy says it appeared that the furniture had been arranged as if the room were unoccupied, but he is not sure if it was cleaned.
Defense Attorney Harold Mesick cross-examines Detective Mike Kennedy
Mesick asks if Kennedy spent 23 years as a law enforcement officer. Kennedy says yes.
Mesick asks Kennedy, “In your opinion, if a person doesn’t want to be found, are they hard to find?” The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s objection that the question calls for speculation.
Former Detective Mike Kennedy is excused at 11:29am
Prosecutor Peuvrelle calls Margarita Campos to the stand. Questions focus on her friendship with Kristin Smart and her interactions with her leading up to the night of her disappearance.
Peuvrelle establishes that in May of 1996, Margarita Campos lived on the first floor of Muir Hall, in the dorm room directly next door to Kristin Smart’s. She says she met Kristin when she first moved into Muir Hall in Winter 1996, and they grew closer in the three months before Kristin’s disappearance. Campos says she and Kristin discussed life plans such as changing their majors, wanting to travel, and their families. “Just life.”
Campos says that on the Friday, May 24, 1996, Kristin Smart came to Campos’ dorm room and they listened to music and talked about what to do that evening. Campos describes it as “a quiet weekend” and says Muir Hall was mostly empty. Campos says she suggested to Kristin that they should stay in for the evening and make cassette mix tapes, but two girls down the hall invited them to go to a party, and Kristin insisted they should “go do something”.
Campos says one of the other girls’ friends had a truck and drove them to a residential home somewhere down California Street in the early evening. She says that she and Kristin had not had anything to drink before this party, and at the party, they each had “a beer”.
Campos says the gathering was “boring”, and the guys present were playing video games. After each finishing a single beer, she says they left together in the truck with the other girls from Muir Hall.
Peuvrelle asks what Kristin Smart was wearing that night. Campos says she recalls that Kristin wore black Roxy brand board shorts, a gray crop top, and red tennis shoes with no socks.
Peuvrelle asks what color Kristin Smart’s hair was on that evening. Campos says it was brown. Peuvrelle asks if Kristin had changed her hair color before. Margarita says, “Gosh, everyone was changing their hair color.”
Peuvrelle asks what Kristin Smart and Margarita Campos did after the “boring” house party. Campos says she and Kristin weren’t ready to go back to the dorms yet, so the other girls in the truck dropped them off on the corner of Foothill Boulevard and California Boulevard. She says she and Kristin decided to split up, because Kristin wanted to walk up Crandall Way to see if there were any parties and she did not. Campos says she had her key to get back into Muir Hall but Kristin did not bring her own, so Campos gave her key to Kristin. Campos recalls that Kristin’s clothing did not have pockets, and she was not carrying a purse or wallet, so she put Margarita’s key in her shoe. Campos says the main entrance to the dorms closed at midnight, so she would be able to get in without her key. Campos recalls that Kristin repeatedly asked her to “please come with me”, but Campos “had to pee”. Campos said she walked in one direction, over train tracks, and Kristin walked in the opposite direction, up Foothill Boulevard towards Crandall Way. Campos says she looked back and hoped that Kristin would look back to, because she thought if they made eye contact, Kristin might change her mind and come back to Muir Hall with her. “Kristin didn’t look back.”
Peuvrelle asks Campos what time she estimates they separated, and after reviewing a summary of her original statement to investigators, she estimates 10:30pm.
Peuvrelle asks if when they separated Kristin Smart was sober. Margarita says, “Yes. 100%.”
Peuvrelle asks if Kristin Smart would have easily gotten cold wearing short shorts and a short top. Campos says yes. Peuvrelle asks how short Kristin’s shorts were. Campos says she recalls they were “standard board shorts, not exorbitantly short. Not like bikini bottoms”.
Peuvrelle asks if Campos ever saw Kristin Smart again. Campos says no. Peuvrelle asks if Campos ever knew Kristin to be gone from her dorm room for more than 24 hours. Campos says no.
Lunch break at 12pm
Back on the record at 1:36pm
Prosecutor Christopher Peuvrelle continues his examination of Margarita Campos. Questions focus on her recollections of Paul Flores at Cal Poly and the aftermath of Kristin Smart’s disappearance.
Peuvrelle asks Campos if Kristin Smart had access to a car. Campos says she did not, as far as she knew.
Peuvrelle asks Campos if she saw Paul Flores around the Cal Poly campus. She says yes, and identifies him in the courtroom. Peuvrelle asks if Campos interacted with Paul Flores, and she says “minimally”.
Peuvrelle asks if Campos told San Luis Obispo Sheriff’s Detective Steve Crawford in a 1999 interview that on one occasion while walking with Kristin Smart, she saw Paul Flores staring at them. Campos says, “He stared at everyone.”
Peuvrelle asks if Campos ever made any efforts to find Kristin Smart. Campos says she remembers Kristin’s mother had a psychic contact her at one point. The Judge sustains Defense Attorney Robert Sanger’s objection that Campos’ answer is ‘non-responsive’. Peuvrelle asks whether Campos ever went searching for Kristin Smart or talked to people. Campos says she talked to people, but never went “looking through forests or anything”.
Peuvrelle asks Margarita Campos what she did on Saturday, May 25th, 1996. Campos says she knocked on Kristin Smart’s door in the morning and it was not answered. She says she spent the rest of the day keeping an eye out for Kristin and repeatedly knocking on her door. Later in the evening, she says she asked other girls in the dorm if they had seen Kristin.
Peuvrelle asks Margarita Campos what she did on Sunday, May 26th, 1996. Campos says, “That’s when things started getting surreal”, as she and other girls in the dorm decided this was “not like Kristin”. “That was the most serious day.” She says another girl in the dorm, Jen ****, decided they should all call the police and report Kristin missing. Campos says she and several other girls were in a room together when Jen called the police, and shortly after, the police came to Muir Hall and interviewed the group. She says they were “all spouting things out” about Kristin.
Defense Attorney Robert Sanger cross-examines Margarita Campos. Questions focus on her previous statements to investigators regarding Kristin Smart’s behavior, her interactions with males, and Margarita’s statements regarding her sexual history.
Sanger asks Campos if she reported to Cal Poly Campus Police that on May 29, 1996 she received a phone call between 2:30am and 3:00am. Campos says she does not remember that specifically. Sanger asks if Campos remembers talking to Detective Mike Kennedy and telling him that she received a phone call and “believed it was ‘the missing person’ because” Kristin Smart had called her late in the past. Campos says that is not correct. She says she received many phone calls to her dorm room where the caller would hang up, but she “never said those phone calls were Kristin Smart”.
Sanger shows Campos Defense Exhibit 602 (handwritten notes of Detective Mike Kennedy) and asks her to read them. He asks her what she recalls about telling law enforcement about the phone calls. Campos says she “very much still recall this. It’s a very eerie feeling when your friend disappears.” She says she was not sleeping and “really scared”, and told Cal Poly Police “maybe those phone calls were her”. Campos says she “did not hear a woman mumbling” as the report states. Sanger asks if Campos told the officer that she heard “a woman mumbling”. Campos says, “I did not.” Sanger asks if the detective was wrong. Campos says yes. “If it was Kennedy, that would make sense. I remember being very frustrated with him.” Sanger asks, “So the officer was wrong?” Campos says yes.
Sanger asks Campos if she emailed San Luis Obispo Sheriff Ian Parkinson in 2017. She says that is correct. Sanger asks if she was then contacted by Detective Clint Cole. Campos says yes.
Sanger asks Campos if she was ever contacted by Dennis Mahon. She says yes. Sanger asks what the nature of her contact with Mahon was. Campos says Mahon asked if she was the Margarita Campos related to the Kristin Smart disappearance. Sanger asks if she knew who Dennis Mahon was. Campos says she probably assumed he was a private investigator of some sort, or a person was “curious and wanted to try to solve something”. Sanger asks if Campos told Detective Cole that she contacted Sheriff Parkinson because of Dennis Mahon. Campos says no, she talked to Denise Smart and learned that there was a new Sheriff on the case and she wanted to talk to him.
Sanger asks what Campos told Detective Cole in her 2017 interview. Campos says she told him that “prior detectives were demoralizing to Kristin’s character”, and that she had never seen Kristin Smart act in a promiscuous manner. Campos says she concluded that ‘unconscious bias’ was happening on the case.
Sanger asks if Campos told Detective Cole that Kristin Smart had no friends, other than her. Campos says no.
Sanger asks if Campos said she was hoping that the fact that she “saw a footprint outside of [her] window would be documented”. Campos says she did not feel like things were accurately documented in the early days of the investigation. “I would talk to them one day, and talk them again a few days later, and they wouldn’t have written things down.”
Sanger asks if Campos told Detective Cole that when Kristin Smart drank alcohol “she was promiscuous”. Campos says, “I did not say that.”
Sanger asks if Campos filled out an FBI questionnaire in 1999. Campos says she does not recall that, and was not aware that the FBI was involved.
Sanger asks if Campos recalls that when asked what ‘the missing person’ liked to do in her spare time, Campos answered, “Listened to music. Partied. Busy work.” Campos says she was trying to be succinct.
Sanger asks if Campos recalls that when asked about ‘the missing person’s’ likes and dislikes, Campos answered, “Likes boys. Dislikes roommate.” Campos says that’s right.
Sanger asks if Campos described ‘the missing person’ as “Shy. Wasn’t natural for her to be sociable. Kristin didn’t fit in.” Campos says yes.
Sanger asks if when asked to recall a number of ‘the missing person’s’ friends and their names, Campos answered, “One. Margarita.” Campos says she didn’t know the names of Kristin’s other friends.
Sanger asks if Campos said that ‘the missing person’ suffered from “A.D.D. and depression” and “took meds”. Campos says yes, that she and Kristin talked about their lives and their own individual struggles.
Sanger asks if Campos said that ‘the missing person’ was “stalking a boy she liked”. Campos says that ‘stalking’ is a word she would have used back in her teens, but not anymore. Kristin had “a crush on a guy and was trying to get his attention”. Sanger asks if the guy was Sean ****. Campos says it was not. Sanger asks if Campos introduced Kristin Smart to Sean ****. Campos says she believes they might have already known each other. Sanger asks if Kristin told Campos that “she got together with Sean”. Campos asks him to clarify what he means by “got together”. Sanger says he is trying not to be any more specific. Campos says Kristin and Sean were casual friends.
Sanger asks if Campos said that ‘the missing person’ “[took] things from other people and [thought] it was okay”. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection.
Sanger asks if Campos said that ‘the missing person’ would “irritate other girls in the dorm”. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection.
Sanger asks if Campos said that ‘the missing person’ “liked to do things to get attention” and described her as “a tease”. Campos says Kristin Smart would flirt. “She wanted to find love. She wanted to find partnership.”
Sanger asks if Campos described ‘the missing person’ as “rigid”, like when she “tried to find a party instead of staying with friends”. Campos says, “She was very determined. Very determined woman.”
Sanger asks if Campos remembers telling D.A. investigators that Kristin Smart told her she was pregnant, and that the father was Sean ****. Campos says she did not know whether Kristin was or was not pregnant. Sanger asks if Campos is saying that she did not tell investigators that Kristin Smart told her she was pregnant. Campos says that is correct.
Sanger asks if Kristin Smart ever told Campos that she was “going to Santa Barbara to get an abortion pill”. Campos says she does not recall that.
Sanger asks if Campos told a San Luis Obispo Sheriff’s Detective on July 1, 1996 that she “introduced Sean **** to Kristin Smart about a month before her disappearance”. Campos said she did introduce them, but believed they had met before then. Sanger asks if Campos told this detective that Kristin and Sean had “an encounter that culminated with the story that Kristin Smart traveled to Santa Barbara for the abortion pill”. Campos says no. Sanger asks if Campos told this detective that her “friends had counseled [you] to avoid” Kristin. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection.
Sanger asks Campos if she was interviewed on January 8, 1999 by San Luis Obispo Sheriff’s Detective Steve Crawford. Campos asks where the interview occurred. Sanger says the report does not say, but that the interview occurred at 2209 hours. Campos says yes, and recalls that the interview took place in Orange County in a parked car “in front of an El Torito”. “That was a long three-hour interview.” Sanger asks if Campos told Detective Crawford that Kristin Smart told her she was pregnant about 1-2 weeks before she disappeared. Campos says no. Sanger asks if Campos told Detective Crawford that Sean **** was the father. Campos says the detective suggested that to her. “I didn’t say that to him.” Sanger asks if Campos told the detective “details about how the pregnancy occurred”. Campos says no.
Sanger hands Campos a document and asks if she recalls giving this account to the detective. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection, but allows Campos to answer whether or not the document refreshed her memory. Campos says, “This was info I heard after Kristin disappeared, when I talked to Sean.”
Sanger asks Campos if she had ever been to a party with Kristin Smart. Campos says the “boring” house party on May 24, 1996 was the only time she had ever attended a party with Kristin. Sanger asks if Campos told detectives that Kristin Smart would sometimes “pretend to be drunk”. Campos says she would pretend to be drunk “to be noticed”.
Sanger asks Campos if she knew Ted ****. Campos says she did. Sanger asks if Campos knew that Ted stayed in Kristin Smart’s dorm room on the night of May 24, 1996 and left the next morning. Campos says she did not, but she did believe she heard someone close Kristin’s door in the morning, because she checked to see if it was Kristin, and she did not see her.
Sanger asks if Campos reported to police that she saw “a footprint”. Campos says yes, outside her window. Sanger asks if Campos heard a knocking on her window. Campos says no.
Defense Attorney Harold Mesick cross-examines Margarita Campos. Questions focus on her previous statements regarding Kristin Smart’s behavior and her 2017 interview with Sheriff’s Detective Clint Cole.
Mesick asks if Campos and Kristin Smart had a lot in common, such as that they were both Aquarius, both liked to swim, both had Attention Deficit Disorder and were taking meds. Campos says yes.
Mesick asks Campos if Kristin Smart was always in [Campos’] room because she didn’t like her roommate. Campos says yes.
Mesick asks if it’s true that Campos was not sexually active in May of 1996, but she believed Kristin Smart was. Campos says that is correct.
Mesick asks if Campos told investigators that Kristin Smart was “boy-crazy”. Campos says yes.
Mesick asks if Campos said that Kristin Smart “liked bad boys” and that Paul Flores wouldn’t be “her type”. Campos says yes.
Mesick asks if Campos had a nickname for Paul Flores. Campos says yes. Mesick asks if that nickname was ‘Albino Boy’. Campos says yes.
Mesick asks if Campos received several phone calls where the caller would hang up without saying anything. Campos says yes, but the calls were occurring even before Kristin Smart disappeared.
Mesick asks if Campos said that “Cal Poly removed information that could help find Kristin Smart”. Campos says, “Yes. They cleaned Paul Flores’ dorm room.”
Mesick asks Campos if she thinks the “intense media coverage” had affected her memory in any way. Campos says no.
Mesick asks if Campos spent 1 1/2 hours speaking to Detective Cole in 2017. She says yes.
Mesick asks if when Campos spoke on the phone with Dennis Mahon that she was aware that he was not law enforcement. Campos says she was aware that he was not law enforcement.
Mesick asks Campos if there were one or two footprints outside of her window. She says it looked like one shoeprint, but she was not sure.
Mesick asks Campos if she ‘formally introduced’ Sean **** and Kristin Smart. Campos says she thinks they knew each other before. Mesick asks Campos if Sean **** and Kristin Smart dated. Campos says she does not know.
Mesick asks if Campos said that the one time she directly interacted with Paul Flores was when he was working at the campus grocery store and he commented that she “liked cookies”. Campos says yes.
Mesick asks if Campos speculated that “maybe Kristin found some guy and hung out with him all day”. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection.
Mesick asks Campos if she has any knowledge of where Kristin Smart may be. Campos pauses. “Kristin is no longer alive.”
Break at 2:55pm
Back on the record at 3:20pm
Prosecutor Christopher Peuvrelle redirects Margarita Campos.
Peuvrelle asks Margarita if she told investigators that Kristin Smart “would not go along with anything she didn’t want to do. Campos says that is correct. “She was very determined. She was not a follower. If she didn’t want to do something, she would aggressively get out of it.”
Defense Attorney Robert Sanger cross-examines Margarita Campos again. Questions focus on a list of other men who Sanger claims should have been investigated as suspects and Campos’ interviews with the media.
Sanger asks Campos if she knew Paul Flores from the Student Store. Campos says it was the campus grocery store. Sanger asks if Campos knew that Paul Flores “cooked tri-tip” there. Campos says she was not aware of that, and only saw him stocking shelves.
Sanger asks if Campos recalls Kristin Smart reporting someone to a Resident Advisor for peeping in her window. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s objection that the question lacks a foundation.
Sanger asks if Kristin Smart told Campos that someone was “peeping in her room”. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s objection that this is hearsay.
Sanger asks Campos if she ever heard the name ‘Yanish’. Campos says she does not recall that name.
Sanger asks Campos if Kristin Smart “ever complained to you about somebody. The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s objection that this is hearsay.
Sanger asks Campos how she knew Ted ****. Campos says he was a friend of Jen ****, who lived across the hall from her. Sanger asks if Campos saw him on Friday, May 24, 1996. Campos says no. Sanger asks if Campos got along with Ted ****. Campos says yes.
Sanger asks why Campos felt like she was ‘censored’ by television and other media. The Judge overrules Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s relevance objection. Campos says that in an interview with 20/20, she discussed Cal Poly’s mishandling of the case and how investigators dealt with her and other women. She says the program cut her comments, and instead focused on Kristin’s lifestyle and promiscuity. “It was very demeaning to her character as an individual. As a whole person.”
Sanger asks Campos how many times she was interviewed for television. She says “several”, but that she avoided it for a long time until the past three years, when she felt like there was a “better team” working for Kristin Smart.
Sanger asks Campos if she claimed on national television that Cal Poly “removed evidence”. Campos says yes. Sanger asks her what was “removed”? Campos says, “The university cleaned Paul Flores’ dorm room within two weeks of Kristin’s disappearance.” Sanger asks Campos what evidence she has that the dorm room was cleaned. Campos says she was told by either a detective or a journalist along the way.
Sanger asks who Campos is referring to when she claims that there is now a “better team” working for Kristin Smart. Campos says Sheriff Ian Parkinson and Detective Clint Cole. Sanger asks her if she is also including the Smart family or Dennis Mahon. Campos says no.
Sander asks Campos if she has talked to Chris Lambert. Campos says she did in 2019. Sanger asks if she talked with ‘the podcaster’. Campos says yes. Sanger asks how many times she ‘appeared’ on the podcast. Campos says once. Sanger asks Campos if she listened to the podcast. Campos says yes. Sanger asks her if she “learned things from his podcast”. Campos says, “Not really.”
Sanger asks Campos if Detective Clint Cole told her what he was doing in his investigation. Campos says he told her that he was revisiting everything from start to finish.
Defense Attorney Harold Mesick cross-examines Margarita Campos again. Questions focus on whether or not Kristin told her about wanting to travel or wanting to become a model.
Mesick asks if Campos moved from Muir Hall at the end of the quarter. Campos says yes. Mesick asks if Campos saw ‘barrier tape’ on the door of Kristin Smart’s room. Campos says she remembers that no one was allowed to enter Kristin’s dorm room.
Mesick asks if Campos discussed goals for the future with Kristin Smart. Campos says they both didn’t think that Cal Poly was “a good fit” for them.
Mesick asks Campos if Kristin Smart liked to travel. Campos says they both liked to travel.
Mesick asks Campos if Kristin Smart told her that she wanted “to be a model”. Campos says she told Kristin that she could be a model, because she was tall and beautiful.
Mesick asks Campos the color of Kristin Smart’s hair when she last saw her. Campos says it was brown, and that Kristin warned her not to dye her hair “because it ruined her hair”. “I didn’t think it was ruined.”
Margarita Campos is excused at 3:40pm
Prosecutor Peuvrelle calls Detective Clint Cole to the stand. Questions focus on Cole’s interview with Kristin Smart’s Muir Hall roommate.
Peuvrelle asks Detective Cole if he spoke to a woman named Crystal **** on June 16, 2021. Cole says he did. Peuvrelle asks Cole what Crystal told him. Cole says Crystal told him that she was the roommate of Kristin Smart in Muir Hall Room 120 from February to May 1996.
Peuvrelle asks if Crystal told Cole that she had friends visiting on May 24, 1996. Cole says Crystal told him that her friend Jana **** came to visit for the Memorial Day weekend and stayed in Muir Hall Room 120 on May 24.
Peuvrelle asks if Crystal told Cole that she had ever seen Kristin Smart missing for longer than 24 hours. Cole says that Crystal told him she never did before May 24.
Peuvrelle asks if anything in the dorm room concerned Crystal when she returned on May 25, 1996. Cole says Crystal was concerned that Kristin Smart’s red backpack was still on her bed, unmoved since the day before. Crystal told Cole that Kristin Smart was never gone overnight without her red backpack and toiletries.
Peuvrelle asks if Crystal had ever seen Kristin Smart intoxicated. Cole says Crystal told him she only saw Kristin intoxicated on one occasion. Peuvrelle asks if Kristin was “falling down drunk” on this one occasion. Cole says Crystal told him she was not.
Peuvrelle asks if Crystal noticed anything disturbed or moved on Kristin’s side of the dorm room when she returned on May 25, 1996. Cole says Crystal told him nothing had been moved.
Peuvrelle asks when the last time Crystal saw Kristin Smart was. Cole says Crystal told him she last saw Kristin on May 24, 1996 around 7 or 8pm.
Defense Attorney Robert Sanger cross-examines Detective Clint Cole.
Sanger asks if Detective Cole went over an FBI questionnaire filled out by Crystal **** in 1999 when he interviewed her in 2021. Cole says he did not.
Sanger asks if Detective Cole told Crystal **** that “if a Defense investigator calls, she doesn’t have to talk to them”? Cole says he may have told her that if she asked if she had to talk to them. Sanger asks if Cole wants to dissuade witnesses from talking to Defense investigators. The Judge overrules Peuvrelle’s objection that the question is argumentative, but Sanger says he has no further questions.
Defense Attorney Harold Mesick cross-examines Detective Clint Cole.
Mesick asks Cole whether Crystal **** told him why she and Kristin Smart did not get along. Cole says Crystal told him they had “different interests”. Mesick asks is Crystal said that Kristin was “more flamboyant in her dress and her style”. Cole says she may have said that.
Mesick asks Cole whether Crystal told him that she let her friend Jana **** use her room on Friday, May 24, 1996. Cole says she did.
Defense Attorney Robert Sanger cross-examines Detective Clint Cole again.
Sanger asks Cole if Crystal **** told him that she would allow Ted **** to spend the night with Jana **** in her dorm room. Cole says Crystal did not tell him that.
Defense Attorney Harold Mesick cross-examines Detective Clint Cole again.
Mesick asks Cole if he heard the testimony of Margarita Campos, when she said she was “very happy when the new team came onboard”. Cole says he did hear that.
Mesick asks Cole if he considered “other suspects besides Paul Flores”. Cole says he viewed the investigation “with an open mind”.
Defense Attorney Robert Sanger cross-examines Detective Clint Cole again.
Sanger asks Cole if he “did not assume that Paul Flores was a suspect”. Cole says, “That’s how I view all of my cases.” Sanger asks Cole if he looked at Ted **** as a potential suspect. Cole says he “kept an open mind”. “Did I investigate Ted **** as a suspect? No.” Sanger asks if Ted **** was regarded by some people as “not a very nice person”. Cole says yes. Sanger asks if Cole knew Ted **** was at the Crandall Way party on May 24, 1996. Cole says that Ted said in his 1999 FBI questionnaire that he “left the party before Kristin Smart arrived”. He says there were multiple interviews done with Ted ****, including a polygraph. “I took that all into consideration.” Sanger asks if there were also multiple interviews with Paul Flores where he said “exactly the same thing”. Cole says yes. Sanger asks if Jana **** was “not happy” that Ted **** got into bed with her. Cole says that is correct.
Sanger asks if Detective Cole is aware of a report to a Resident Advisor that a ‘peeping Tom’ named “Yanish” was looking into Kristin Smart’s dorm room. Cole says he is aware. Sanger asks if Cole was able to establish that there was no one named “Yanish” living in the dorms at the time. Cole says he was able to establish that there was no one named “Yanish” in all of Cal Poly at the time.
Sanger asks if Detective Cole remembers Steve Fleming testifying that someone was “lurking” around Muir Hall and he believed it was Paul Flores “but wasn’t 100% sure”. Cole says he’s not sure if he remembers Fleming saying that. Sanger asks if Cole tried to find out who was lurking. Cole says he did not.
Sanger asks about Shahn **** and Cole says he is not familiar with him. Sanger asks if Shahn was a suspect or a Person of Interest. Cole says, “Not in my mind.” Sanger asks if any investigator ever asked Shahn what was in the “mean note” he left on Kristin’s doorstep. Cole says he is not aware of that. Sanger says it is “reckless arson to set shoes on fire on someone’s doorstep, is it not?” The Judge sustains Prosecutor Peuvrelle’s objection that the question is argumentative.
Sanger asks Cole if Sean **** was ever a suspect. Cole says, “Not in my mind, but I’ve heard your thoughts on it.”
Sanger asks Cole if he is aware of Brian **** who was a Cal Poly Campus Security Officer. Cole says he is. Sanger asks if Brian was at a party with Kristin Smart, possibly on Thursday, May 23, 1996. Cole says, “I believe so.” Sanger asks if Brian **** subsequently joined the team to investigate Kristin’s disappearance, “including potential burial sites”. Cole says he has never seen that reported. Sanger asks if Cole is aware that Brian **** was later charged for a sex crime. Cole says, “I learned that from you here.” Sanger asks Cole if he has interviewed Brian since learning this. Cole says no.
Sanger asks Cole if he has heard that Scott Peterson was at the party on May 24, 1996. Cole says, “In all of my research, the only person who ever said anything like that was a public tip [ed. note: from 2004 — a year after Scott Peterson was arrested and charged with murdering his wife, Laci] where a lady said that ‘in her opinion’, Scott and Laci Peterson had been to ‘a party’ with Kristin Smart. And she never said it was the Crandall Way party.”
Detective Clint Cole is excused at 4:16pm
Defense Attorney Robert Sanger discusses an issue with the Judge regarding documents the court may have maintained on this case which have not been seen by the Prosecution or the Defense. The Judge says he will take it under submission and will see what the state of the file is.
Sanger makes a slightly unintelligible comment regarding “arrangements for Scott Peterson”, but it is unclear whether he was trying to make a joke or implying that Peterson has been subpoenaed to testify. The issue was not seriously discussed beyond this passing comment.
(Several others in attendance were unclear on this statement when asked)
Off the record at 4:35pm [Spoiler/]
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,309 Likes: 220,027
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Post by jaygee on Aug 6, 2021 10:57:38 GMT -6
Are they really going to try to say Scott Peterson killed her? WTF. this was looked into over the years. It's not the first mention is all I'm saying. Yeah he was looked at for her murder for a bit. There is some circumstances that tied him to the area. When Lacey first when missing, I for sure thought he would be tied to both cases. It was talked about a lot in CA and I’m sure there are some people who still have him on their suspect list for Kristin.
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