mapleme
Amethyst
Posts: 6,065 Likes: 16,081
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2020
Jul 7, 2020 8:13:56 GMT -6
Post by mapleme on Jul 7, 2020 8:13:56 GMT -6
+1 to what tj said. Thank you for coming back and continuing the conversation.
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2020
Jul 7, 2020 9:36:04 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by grumpycakes on Jul 7, 2020 9:36:04 GMT -6
@pipandme I don’t think anyone’s insinuating that we have some sort of superior internal moral compass and we’d have done differently in historical circumstances. I totally get that people did stuff we consider abhorrent without a second thought and without evil intent. What I’m most concerned about is that we learn from history and do better NOW. And that we listen when people tell us something is offensive because of its history. Just because we may not know the history and we thought it was entirely innocent doesn’t mean it’s ok. Once you learn, you gotta do better.
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tj
Moderator
Posts: 9,912 Likes: 24,842
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2020
Jul 7, 2020 10:59:28 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by tj on Jul 7, 2020 10:59:28 GMT -6
Oh.
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2020
Jul 7, 2020 11:59:18 GMT -6
Post by Dramaphile on Jul 7, 2020 11:59:18 GMT -6
There have been petitions for years to remove Confederate statues with nothing done in most cases. People are fed up, and while I would also like towns and cities and states to remove the statues themselves (and some are doing that in response to recent protests), the reality is that many would still stand if left up to the local governments. I was thinking yesterday about how the whole idea of public statues that glorify historical figures is a very weird thing when you think about it.
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mapleme
Amethyst
Posts: 6,065 Likes: 16,081
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2020
Jul 7, 2020 12:23:17 GMT -6
Post by mapleme on Jul 7, 2020 12:23:17 GMT -6
You don't break down 400 years of oppression by being nice about it. If it was that easy it would have happened a long time ago. The statues being removed by the protestors, not the cities, doesn't speak ill of the protestors, it speaks ill of the cities who have left them in place (and paid taxpayer money to erect them in the first place).
And really, as Kimberly Jones best put it, given the horrors rained down on Black people by white people in this county, we're lucky that Black people simply want equality and not revenge. This video is a powerful watch.
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mapleme
Amethyst
Posts: 6,065 Likes: 16,081
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2020
Jul 7, 2020 12:25:14 GMT -6
Post by mapleme on Jul 7, 2020 12:25:14 GMT -6
There have been petitions for years to remove Confederate statues with nothing done in most cases. People are fed up, and while I would also like towns and cities and states to remove the statues themselves (and some are doing that in response to recent protests), the reality is that many would still stand if left up to the local governments. I was thinking yesterday about how the whole idea of public statues that glorify historical figures is a very weird thing when you think about it. Maybe I'm too optimistic in thinking that the protests (without the statue destroying) were having a positive impact on the American conscience. We'll probably never know now if more Americans would have pressured elected officials into action than in years past. More Americans ARE pressuring elected officials into action than in years past. We know this. Look upthread at my post about BLM being the largest movement in American history. And look how many statues ARE being removed by cities. Protestors just got that ball rolling.
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milano
Emerald
Posts: 10,914 Likes: 36,993
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Post by milano on Jul 7, 2020 13:57:54 GMT -6
You don't break down 400 years of oppression by being nice about it. If it was that easy it would have happened a long time ago. The statues being removed by the protestors, not the cities, doesn't speak ill of the protestors, it speaks ill of the cities who have left them in place (and paid taxpayer money to erect them in the first place). And really, as Kimberly Jones best put it, given the horrors rained down on Black people by white people in this county, we're lucky that Black people simply want equality and not revenge. This video is a powerful watch. YES that statement has really stuck with me since I first watched that video last month. Equality not revenge. And we should be really grateful for that because can you even imagine?
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milano
Emerald
Posts: 10,914 Likes: 36,993
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Post by milano on Jul 7, 2020 13:59:57 GMT -6
Also, who the F cares if the statues get removed by toppling or gently by expensive equipment? I have heard of no human injuries due to getting crushed by a statue. I personally don't care. Topple away.
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mapleme
Amethyst
Posts: 6,065 Likes: 16,081
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2020
Jul 7, 2020 14:27:07 GMT -6
Post by mapleme on Jul 7, 2020 14:27:07 GMT -6
You don't break down 400 years of oppression by being nice about it. If it was that easy it would have happened a long time ago. The statues being removed by the protestors, not the cities, doesn't speak ill of the protestors, it speaks ill of the cities who have left them in place (and paid taxpayer money to erect them in the first place). And really, as Kimberly Jones best put it, given the horrors rained down on Black people by white people in this county, we're lucky that Black people simply want equality and not revenge. This video is a powerful watch. YES that statement has really stuck with me since I first watched that video last month. Equality not revenge. And we should be really grateful for that because can you even imagine? And it's not even hyperbole. There are many countries in this world where the oppressed are at literal war with the oppressors. With people dying and things exploding on the regular. Those countries probably think that statue toppling is cute.
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2020
Jul 9, 2020 12:28:33 GMT -6
Post by violajack on Jul 9, 2020 12:28:33 GMT -6
I would just like to share this wonderful proposal by a former professor of mine:
"As this 4th of July comes to a close, I have a proposal. #StatueResponse To raise the discourse, promote the arts, and in response to statues coming down, can we lobby for the creation of a significant NEA project specifically for African American and Native American artists to create permanent works (or installations) which transform the statues, replace the statues, and/or show a response in the immediate vicinity of the statues? In addition to the creation of new works or repurposing of the old statues, new commissioning grants for original musical works, multimedia displays, and/or new dance choreographies for the unveilings should be offered. We can simultaneously create opportunities in a time of need, and raise the discourse. In my opinion, art is the best way to respond to art, even when the original art was created for a malicious or misguided purpose. We can provide a lasting testament to future generations, and a permanent reminder of the power of art as a reflection of the human struggle."
There has been much discussion in the music world lately about supporting artists/composers/performers of color. And especially of de-colonizing the method books. So many of the cute little songs we teach kids have really racist origins. The same pedagogical goals can be accomplished with other pieces. There is so much room for, and need of, voices of color in the arts. Statues are basically art installations (that end up in art museums when we dig them up centuries later anyway), and a response from the art community would be really neat to see. Also, the performing community has been devastated by the pandemic shutdowns with no hope of returning to work for much longer than most industries.
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