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Post by charlotte on Jul 3, 2020 8:59:11 GMT -6
Sucks.
If you’re like me, your plans for the year we’re all crushed by mid-March, thanks to the pandemic.
I heard on a podcast this week the idea of shifting your perspective to one thing that you wish to get out of 2020. And focus on honoring or achieving just that one thing.
It can be anything— get stronger abs, put extra $ into savings that you were going to spend on vacation, taking a virtual class on something you’ve always wanted to learn, finish your kid’s forgotten baby book, work on your photography skills, etc.
So. What is your “one thing” that you want to take from this horrid year?
(It’s ok if the one thing is just maintaining your sanity. Staying sane and emotionally healthy in 2020 is a tough challenge.)
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mapleme
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2020
Jul 3, 2020 9:16:12 GMT -6
Post by mapleme on Jul 3, 2020 9:16:12 GMT -6
I'm hopeful that 2020 is the year that Black lives start to matter. It would make it all worth it.
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mapleme
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Jul 3, 2020 9:17:57 GMT -6
Post by mapleme on Jul 3, 2020 9:17:57 GMT -6
But for myself, I hope that this is the year that my business is stronger on the other side. We're growing so fast right now that it feels precarious. Sometime in February 2021 or so, I'd like to be able to set my feet on firm ground and feel comfortable.
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mapleme
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Jul 3, 2020 9:20:17 GMT -6
Post by mapleme on Jul 3, 2020 9:20:17 GMT -6
Ha. I just realized that I have no goals for the myself of myself. Like, nope, just put one foot in front of the other.
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snowmoon
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Post by snowmoon on Jul 3, 2020 10:08:04 GMT -6
mapleme. I'm beginning to feel like BLM (the organized movement) is fighting for equal rights for all by removing everyone's rights. I cannot support that. I pray we can find a way to give full and equal rights to everyone. Why do you think that? What rights are being removed?
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Speedy
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Post by Speedy on Jul 3, 2020 10:27:27 GMT -6
We had hoped that this would be the year that we got into our own home, but after taking a closer look at our finances we realized that they're not where they need to be in order to accomplish that. So our goal is to continue working on getting our financials and credit scores where they need to be so we can pursue that dream next year. And of course becoming a family of 4 too lol
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Post by charlotte on Jul 3, 2020 11:08:11 GMT -6
Unfortunately American history isn’t pretty. But calling it out for what it is is important. We tend to whitewash our history because it makes us feel more comfortable, and white people have always been in the position of shaping the narrative.
Why should we glorify and memorialize slave owners, confederate generals, or someone who led a genocide against natives? Anyway, certainly nobody has a civil right to have a statue of a dead white man in their town.
Another thing to consider is that attributing one or a few things we feel uncomfortable with to the BLM movement as a whole is counter-productive to the amplification of black voices and justice for black Americans. It’s missing the forest for the trees, IMO.
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snowmoon
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Post by snowmoon on Jul 3, 2020 11:26:40 GMT -6
The effort to remove statues and monuments glorifying colonizers and slave owners has been a global movement-not just in the U.S. I can think of multiple statues and monuments across Canada and seen stories from Europe that have been vandalized or petitioned to be removed. Removing them is not erasing history, it’s not centering them in the conversation.
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mapleme
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Jul 3, 2020 11:45:41 GMT -6
Post by mapleme on Jul 3, 2020 11:45:41 GMT -6
The best analogy that I've seen about removing statues is: I think that we can all agree that satan is an important part of Christian theology, but if you start filling your churches with statues, pictures and idols of satan, everyone is going to start wondering where your allegiances lie. Removing statues to slave owners doesn't erase their existence or stop teaching the history of the person to future generations. But it does acknowledge that their story is a lot more complicated than what can be expressed on a placard. It also acknowledges that our definition of "we the people" has changed since those words were written.
How would you feel, as a Jewish person, if there were a statue to the SS officer who killed your grandparents? Even if he did great things to greatly expand the efficiency of roadways (the building of autobahns is one of the things that the Nazi's are widely credited with). Would you rather learn about the great things that the guy who ran the concentration camp that executed your family did in a book, or because you were eating lunch at his feet in a plaza?
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mapleme
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Jul 3, 2020 11:47:30 GMT -6
Post by mapleme on Jul 3, 2020 11:47:30 GMT -6
So removing statues of those who fought to free slaves is good for black history? Acting like slavery never happened is good for black history how? Removing slavery from history is good for American history how? I'm not interested in defending my opinion that BLM is taking matters too far. If I can't express an opinion that may or may not be popular then I am losing my right to free speech. I think that it's really important to remember that there is no right to not being disagreed with in this country. The idea that the tide of culture is turning against your opinion is not the loss of free speech.
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mapleme
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Jul 3, 2020 11:51:54 GMT -6
Post by mapleme on Jul 3, 2020 11:51:54 GMT -6
I also think that Black people can better let us know what is "good for Black history" than we can tell them.
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Post by charlotte on Jul 3, 2020 12:10:29 GMT -6
I don’t think the intent is to erase history but, like snowmoon said, to center the narrative around black voices and experiences rather than around whites. In particular, we tend to paint things in the light of a “white savior”. Why not memorialize and celebrate black historical figures while shifting our focus onto the black experience?
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Post by charlotte on Jul 3, 2020 12:12:30 GMT -6
Another example is that (for the most part) slavery plantations aren’t being kept around and glorified in order to remember black history and value the experiences of generations of slaves. They are being used for the weddings of rich white people.
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mapleme
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Jul 3, 2020 12:12:33 GMT -6
Post by mapleme on Jul 3, 2020 12:12:33 GMT -6
mapleme the Jews who survived the Holocaust fought to keep Auschwitz from being destroyed. They wanted to keep the place that killed so many to prevent it from happening again. They knew that to destroy it makes it possible for future generations to claim it didn't exist. Destroying all traces of the confederacy and slavery makes it possible for future generations to claim neither existed in this country. No one is trying to destroy "all traces of the confederacy and slavery." Statues to the confederacy are modern inventions idolizing a time of ruthless brutality. The slavery equivalent to a concentration camp would be a slave plantation. No one is saying that they should be torn down. What they are saying is that they should be recognized for what they were: forced work camps filled with murder, rape and kidnapping. Not places to have pretty weddings.
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2020
Jul 3, 2020 12:48:09 GMT -6
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Post by grumpycakes on Jul 3, 2020 12:48:09 GMT -6
No one is trying to destroy "all traces of the confederacy and slavery." Statues to the confederacy are modern inventions idolizing a time of ruthless brutality. The slavery equivalent to a concentration camp would be a slave plantation. No one is saying that they should be torn down. What they are saying is that they should be recognized for what they were: forced work camps filled with murder, rape and kidnapping. Not places to have pretty weddings. There is no equivalent to the concentration camp! Tell me what the difference is. No gas chambers on a plantation? Cause that’s the only difference I see.
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Jul 3, 2020 12:56:00 GMT -6
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Post by grumpycakes on Jul 3, 2020 12:56:00 GMT -6
@pipandme I’m hearing you use an awful lot of talking points that originate from extreme right news sources like Fox News and Christian Facebook click bait. I’d advise you to look up news links to the things you feel you see happening (The wiping away of slavery, the removal of statues of people who freed slaves) and read them critically and see if your own interpretation actually mirrors what you’re hearing from your news sources or not. Because there’s an awful lot of “news” that twists headlines to manipulate people’s feelings and it’s a much bigger threat to our country than people asking for some statues of douchebags to be taken down. Germany didn’t leave up any statues of Hitler.
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2020
Jul 3, 2020 13:27:05 GMT -6
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Post by grumpycakes on Jul 3, 2020 13:27:05 GMT -6
And this is not at all to personally pile onto you, Pip, because I’ve seen this claim in lots of places, but I’m just laughing at people being so upset about the learning opportunities that are missed when historical statues are removed. Like...remember when your kindergarten teacher took you outside to sing the ABCs by the giant alphabet statues? Remember when your health teacher taught you about menstruation by pointing to the ovaries on the big uterus statue in the gym? Oh you don’t? You mean you used books and worksheets to learn? The internet perhaps? Just a long lol to that.
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milano
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Post by milano on Jul 3, 2020 13:34:45 GMT -6
I actually had a similar conversation with my mom the other day after she brought up a petition circulating to change the name of Columbus, OH to something else. Which turned into a conversation about removing statues, renaming schools, Black Lives Matter, etc. I gently corrected some misinformation that she was repeating (probably from Fox News) and I think it got through to her. Basically, it is not up to us white people to determine what should hurt/offend Black people. It is not. We have no idea what it is like to live a Black life and we should be supportive of whatever it is that they are telling us that they need. Removing statues is not erasing history. Not even close. Statues are to honor honorable people - confederate war heroes should not be honored for starting a war in order to keep their slaves. That is obviously a nutshell version of events but the statues need to go.
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Jul 3, 2020 13:40:08 GMT -6
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Post by grumpycakes on Jul 3, 2020 13:40:08 GMT -6
@pipandme There were, in fact, medical experiments performed on slaves. And a history of medical experiments performed on black people after slavery too, as a part of systematic racism. I’m not sure what you mean by there being no discrimination in concentration camps. They were based on discrimination. And I’m not sure why having your abuser live with you makes it any better?
I don’t think you’re some pointy hatted white supremacist by any means, Pip. If I did, I wouldn’t be engaging with you. I’m trying to get you to think a little differently. Our entire society has white washed (no pun intended) our whole history soup to nuts. Slavery and systematic racism is a big part of our history that we haven’t been taught enough about as white people. It’s time to listen and learn to what black people are telling us. Just because a few people destroyed property doesn’t negate the message. For Christ’s sake, young white people turn over cars when their team wins a championship and people barely blink an eye, but someone breaks a window over 400 years of bullshit for their people and the whole movement gets maligned.
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snowmoon
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Post by snowmoon on Jul 3, 2020 13:42:05 GMT -6
Tell me what the difference is. No gas chambers on a plantation? Cause that’s the only difference I see. No science/medical experiments. A plantation was home to the plantation owner and his family - a concentration camp was never home to any one who guarded the prisoners or ordered their deaths. Slavery discriminated against one group. Concentration camps discriminated against no one. Few escaped from plantations to freedom before the end of slavery - even fewer escaped from a concentration camp. Y'all make it sound like you think I support white supremacy just because I said my opinion is that BLM is taking matters too far. Not supporting BLM is not the same as not supporting the rights, lives and history of people of color. The protests have lost their vision. Destroying public property is not will not address inequalities or systemic racism, if anything it could make matters worse. There were absolutely medical experiments conducted on enslaved people. Google J. Marion Sims.
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Post by violajack on Jul 3, 2020 16:23:53 GMT -6
History belongs in museums (and living books, in libraries, textbooks, and school classrooms). If these things are important parts of history, move them to a museum. Know better, do better, right? We know more about these historical figures and the origins of their monuments, right? Isn't it fair to re-asses what we honor in public monuments?
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2020
Jul 3, 2020 16:31:33 GMT -6
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Post by grumpycakes on Jul 3, 2020 16:31:33 GMT -6
charlotte, to your original question...the exact details of what I’ll take away from 2020 are still unknown to me, but right now my 2020 word is RE-EVALUATION . 2020 has been a re-evaluation of how important each of our respective jobs are. DH used to take home checks that made mine basically play money in comparison. Now we make the same and he’s definitely more appreciative of my work when it’s vital to paying the bills. It’s a re-evaluation of who the primary parent is (spoiler it’s still me). But now it’s by E’s choice and not by schedule. And DH def has a new appreciation of caring for a child all day long since I’m the only one physically going to work. It’s a re-evaluation of how we feel about public school. We’ve never been so involved in his curriculum and frankly, we aren’t impressed. That’s not to say that his teacher didn’t work her ass off for online schooling. She did. But I can see very clearly now how E could benefit from more individualized instruction. It’s a re-evaluation of DH’s career. He’s changing careers after being at this job for ten years. He’s been scared to leave because of the financial security it brought, but now that the security is out the window, it’s so clear that moving on is the right choice. I’ve only been telling him for 5 years... Basically, I’m not exactly sure how it will all play out, but I’m so sure we’ll look back on 2020 as the impetus for the change that we needed.
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2020
Jul 3, 2020 16:33:03 GMT -6
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Post by grumpycakes on Jul 3, 2020 16:33:03 GMT -6
Not to mention that I think/hope our country is going through a re-evaluation right now and I hope we, as a whole, look back on 2020 as the impetus for change that we all needed.
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mapleme
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Post by mapleme on Jul 3, 2020 16:58:27 GMT -6
Not to mention that I think/hope our country is going through a re-evaluation right now and I hope we, as a whole, look back on 2020 as the impetus for change that we all needed.
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mapleme
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Post by mapleme on Jul 3, 2020 17:11:19 GMT -6
I want an ovary sculpture in my local park. I would learn so much.
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Post by charlotte on Jul 3, 2020 17:15:29 GMT -6
What I want to take from 2020 is a new president-elect, obviously. 😉
But on a personal level.. I’m working to better myself in preparation for making larger career moves in 2021. The COVID economy has definitely made things feel scary; I would like to get to a less precarious place, career-wise.
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mapleme
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Post by mapleme on Jul 3, 2020 18:00:13 GMT -6
Tell me what the difference is. No gas chambers on a plantation? Cause that’s the only difference I see. No science/medical experiments. A plantation was home to the plantation owner and his family - a concentration camp was never home to any one who guarded the prisoners or ordered their deaths. Slavery discriminated against one group. Concentration camps discriminated against no one. Few escaped from plantations to freedom before the end of slavery - even fewer escaped from a concentration camp. Y'all make it sound like you think I support white supremacy just because I said my opinion is that BLM is taking matters too far. Not supporting BLM is not the same as not supporting the rights, lives and history of people of color. The protests have lost their vision. Destroying public property is not will not address inequalities or systemic racism, if anything it could make matters worse. So much of modern medicine was built on the bodies of Black people with no choice on the matter. Especially women. J Marion Sims is considered “the father of modern gynecology” and he pioneered his methods, with no anesthesia, on slaves. Then took them to white women, with anesthesia. This is a mere 70 years ago, but a profound example of how much of science has view Black bodies as expendable. Henrietta Lacks died of severe cervical cancer at age 31 and was treated reprehensibly during her “treatment.” But her doctor took samples of her cervix and HeLa cels have been used for the last 70 years for almost every study that requires human cell replication, because her cells don’t die, like most human cells do. Her family had no idea until a reporter decided to write a book about these remarkable cells. While you might personally not support white supremacy, it’s important to recognize what your views are making space for. Are they making space for Black people to thrive or for white supremacists to thrive? You say that BLM has lost its vision, but how are they “supposed” to protest? Because nothing is deemed acceptable by the people in the power position. Protest is supposed to shake your beliefs and make you reconsider the norm.
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stringy
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Jul 3, 2020 18:09:25 GMT -6
Post by stringy on Jul 3, 2020 18:09:25 GMT -6
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stringy
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Jul 3, 2020 18:18:57 GMT -6
Post by stringy on Jul 3, 2020 18:18:57 GMT -6
I love your re-evaluate statement grumpycakes, I was reflecting on tomorrow being july 4th earlier today.... and then something Pip said about teaching an American history we'd be proud of..and I'm pretty sure I've concluded that I'm not very proud to be an American. The more I learn about our history, which I obviously wasn't fully taught in school. The more I see the many many injustices that most people deny even exist let alone try to fight. The more stories of our lack of care for the environment because profits... I'm just not feeling very patriotic. And I want to be, I hope we are at a turning point and we can become something to be proud of. But just...WT everloving F to no discrimination in concentration camps. How do you think Jewish people would take that statement. Unless you mean the gays or people with disabilities? Sure he could kill whoever he wanted to - but guess what, he sent out armies looking for specific "types" of people. Cops kill white people occasionally too, but that isn't what the world is talking about right now, KWIM?
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Post by charlotte on Jul 3, 2020 18:25:03 GMT -6
stringy I also feel very un-patriotic. And I am certainly not imparting any blind patriotism on my kids for the 4th (or any other time). I really want to make sure I supplement whatever history they learn in school.
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