athn64
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Post by athn64 on Jan 5, 2019 15:38:06 GMT -6
LMK when you guys finish the thesis so we can talk about it. Have you finished? I found it fascinating, and learned a bit of the difference between copyright infringement and theft of intellectual property. I have. I found most interesting how the community differs when calling our plagiarism for popular vs unpopular fics and authors. |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 5, 2019 16:38:04 GMT -6
Have you finished? I found it fascinating, and learned a bit of the difference between copyright infringement and theft of intellectual property. I have. I found most interesting how the community differs when calling our plagiarism for popular vs unpopular fics and authors. It's very parallel to our society. There is a general unwillingness to accept that our favorite celebrity/author/athlete/ideology is flawed so we go for blood in their defense. Because we've tied enjoying a certain type of entertainment to our identities and therefore any attack on the source is an attack on ourselves. And so CC and EL James, like the thesis author wrote, are still allowed to publish books and people wait on the edge of their seats for these works that may or may not belong to these authors. I thought it was interesting how the twilight fandom sort of shottied certain fandom tropes, and it made me think of all the soul mark, fake relationship, and time travel fics I have read. |
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 5, 2019 17:25:27 GMT -6
I have. I found most interesting how the community differs when calling our plagiarism for popular vs unpopular fics and authors. It's very parallel to our society. There is a general unwillingness to accept that our favorite celebrity/author/athlete/ideology is flawed so we go for blood in their defense. Because we've tied enjoying a certain type of entertainment to our identities and therefore any attack on the source is an attack on ourselves. And so CC and EL James, like the thesis author wrote, are still allowed to publish books and people wait on the edge of their seats for these works that may or may not belong to these authors. I thought it was interesting how the twilight fandom sort of shottied certain fandom tropes, and it made me think of all the soul mark, fake relationship, and time travel fics I have read. I think it's interesting with EL James and others doing the work. It plays into how the BDSM community took to 50 shades. She never really looked into how that sort of relationship should be conducted because she copies from other people. And so the way she wrote it was very flawed. But a major difference between James and CC is that hers at least was not verbatim copying, which makes it more difficult to really prove. And I agree, there are tropes that have been done to death that I will still read a new fic of . The idea itself isn't proprietary |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 5, 2019 19:32:47 GMT -6
It's very parallel to our society. There is a general unwillingness to accept that our favorite celebrity/author/athlete/ideology is flawed so we go for blood in their defense. Because we've tied enjoying a certain type of entertainment to our identities and therefore any attack on the source is an attack on ourselves. And so CC and EL James, like the thesis author wrote, are still allowed to publish books and people wait on the edge of their seats for these works that may or may not belong to these authors. I thought it was interesting how the twilight fandom sort of shottied certain fandom tropes, and it made me think of all the soul mark, fake relationship, and time travel fics I have read. I think it's interesting with EL James and others doing the work. It plays into how the BDSM community took to 50 shades. She never really looked into how that sort of relationship should be conducted because she copies from other people. And so the way she wrote it was very flawed. But a major difference between James and CC is that hers at least was not verbatim copying, which makes it more difficult to really prove. And I agree, there are tropes that have been done to death that I will still read a new fic of . The idea itself isn't proprietary Ah, i hadn't read 50 shades and that would make sense. Frankensteined stolen story about a niche subculture, can't imagine what could go wrong. I was more thinking of the author's example of the tattoo trope. the author's findings that the twilight fandom felt that certain tropes belonged to the fandom, and classified it as stealing from the fandom as a whole, in regards to self-policing against plagiarism. I hadn't thought of that pov before. I'll probably still be thinking about it at 1am tonight...if I'm being honest. |
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 5, 2019 20:04:31 GMT -6
I think it's interesting with EL James and others doing the work. It plays into how the BDSM community took to 50 shades. She never really looked into how that sort of relationship should be conducted because she copies from other people. And so the way she wrote it was very flawed. But a major difference between James and CC is that hers at least was not verbatim copying, which makes it more difficult to really prove. And I agree, there are tropes that have been done to death that I will still read a new fic of . The idea itself isn't proprietary Ah, i hadn't read 50 shades and that would make sense. Frankensteined stolen story about a niche subculture, can't imagine what could go wrong. I was more thinking of the author's example of the tattoo trope. the author's findings that the twilight fandom felt that certain tropes belonged to the fandom, and classified it as stealing from the fandom as a whole, in regards to self-policing against plagiarism. I hadn't thought of that pov before. I'll probably still be thinking about it at 1am tonight...if I'm being honest. I can see them thinking certain things belong to the fandom. We are a pretty protective bunch. But there's a tattoo trope in Reylo too, so it's odd to say, hey that's ours about a simple plot point. |
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mischief
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Post by mischief on Jan 5, 2019 21:21:14 GMT -6
I havent read 50SOG and havent fully read the thesis yet, so Im not sure what the tattoo thing is, but I feel like saying any one trope belongs to any one fandom is ridiculous. Like astoundingly so.
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 5, 2019 21:25:52 GMT -6
I havent read 50SOG and havent fully read the thesis yet, so Im not sure what the tattoo thing is, but I feel like saying any one trope belongs to any one fandom is ridiculous. Like astoundingly so. Oh it's quite ridiculous. if I remember correctly, it's "tattooward" where Edward is covered in tattoos/owns a tattoo parlor/ rides a motorcycle, if he's not the artist, usually Rosalie is, and Bella usually comes in looking for a tat. Very Bad boy vibe. It actually doesn't come into 50SOG at all, I don't think. |
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mischief
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Post by mischief on Jan 5, 2019 21:52:35 GMT -6
I havent read 50SOG and havent fully read the thesis yet, so Im not sure what the tattoo thing is, but I feel like saying any one trope belongs to any one fandom is ridiculous. Like astoundingly so. Oh it's quite ridiculous. if I remember correctly, it's "tattooward" where Edward is covered in tattoos/owns a tattoo parlor/ rides a motorcycle, if he's not the artist, usually Rosalie is, and Bella usually comes in looking for a tat. Very Bad boy vibe. It actually doesn't come into 50SOG at all, I don't think. I cannot even. Like I have read at least 3 tattoo parlor TW fics (its actually quite a popular trope) and a motorcycle club one and dozens of tattooed Stiles. In like the last month. And there are actually tattoos in Teen Wolf. Even if TW came after Twilight. I obviously have other examples but as you all know TW is my spiral right now so they are whats fresh. |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 6, 2019 8:32:14 GMT -6
Ah, i hadn't read 50 shades and that would make sense. Frankensteined stolen story about a niche subculture, can't imagine what could go wrong. I was more thinking of the author's example of the tattoo trope. the author's findings that the twilight fandom felt that certain tropes belonged to the fandom, and classified it as stealing from the fandom as a whole, in regards to self-policing against plagiarism. I hadn't thought of that pov before. I'll probably still be thinking about it at 1am tonight...if I'm being honest. I can see them thinking certain things belong to the fandom. We are a pretty protective bunch. But there's a tattoo trope in Reylo too, so it's odd to say, hey that's ours about a simple plot point. It actually sounded like hurt feelings the more I thought about it. The thesis said something about how EL James "used" the fandom to get where she is and then cut off ties with anyone still involved with the fandom. The truth of that lies somewhere in the bowels of the internet and people's memories and we'll never know the truth. But yeah the claim that certain tropes belong to any fandom is off base. |
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 6, 2019 10:04:33 GMT -6
I can see them thinking certain things belong to the fandom. We are a pretty protective bunch. But there's a tattoo trope in Reylo too, so it's odd to say, hey that's ours about a simple plot point. It actually sounded like hurt feelings the more I thought about it. The thesis said something about how EL James "used" the fandom to get where she is and then cut off ties with anyone still involved with the fandom. The truth of that lies somewhere in the bowels of the internet and people's memories and we'll never know the truth. But yeah the claim that certain tropes belong to any fandom is off base. I agree with the first part. It was her mentioning that they thought tropes belonged to the fandom that I thought was silly. But yeah, she made bank based off work other people did. |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 6, 2019 12:55:02 GMT -6
It actually sounded like hurt feelings the more I thought about it. The thesis said something about how EL James "used" the fandom to get where she is and then cut off ties with anyone still involved with the fandom. The truth of that lies somewhere in the bowels of the internet and people's memories and we'll never know the truth. But yeah the claim that certain tropes belong to any fandom is off base. I agree with the first part. It was her mentioning that they thought tropes belonged to the fandom that I thought was silly. But yeah, she made bank based off work other people did. I didn't mean to excuse what she did, I was speaking to the tropes. Fully agree that she is absolutely a plagiarist whole stole people's stuff. Im not articulating what I'm wondering well, and I suppose it doesn't really matter because stealing is stealing, ya know? |
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mischief
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Post by mischief on Jan 6, 2019 21:43:49 GMT -6
So speaking of this I was on mt Thiam Discord today and someone is plagiarizing one of my favorite stories/series. The season 6 rewrite I rec'd pianolove "Red". They are focusing on different characters but its the same story. |
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 6, 2019 21:45:15 GMT -6
So speaking of this I was on mt Thiam Discord today and someone is plagiarizing one of my favorite stories/series. The season 6 rewrite I rec'd pianolove . They are focusing on different characters but its the same story. So not cool. Has anyone called them on it? |
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mischief
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Post by mischief on Jan 6, 2019 21:55:05 GMT -6
So speaking of this I was on mt Thiam Discord today and someone is plagiarizing one of my favorite stories/series. The season 6 rewrite I rec'd pianolove . They are focusing on different characters but its the same story. So not cool. Has anyone called them on it? The author got in touch with them and the story has now been credited as inspired by Red. She says she doesnt mind them using the idea but going into the Thiam tag and seeing her idea, a major plot point of the story, there really threw her. Like they are walking that very tight line between using a trope and inspiration from another story and actual plagiarizing. I mean they are dancing on it. |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 7, 2019 8:39:13 GMT -6
So not cool. Has anyone called them on it? The author got in touch with them and the story has now been credited as inspired by Red. She says she doesnt mind them using the idea but going into the Thiam tag and seeing her idea, a major plot point of the story, there really threw her. Like they are walking that very tight line between using a trope and inspiration from another story and actual plagiarizing. I mean they are dancing on it. Whoa this is supremely uncool. I don't think people realize how generous fic authors are, if they'd just contact them first and be like hey I love this story, can I write x's perspective on it. 98% of all AN I have come across that addressed this has always been to please contact them first and give credit where due. |
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 13, 2019 21:01:41 GMT -6
Bumping this to ask a question. Saw this on Potter Moms. It's obviously an allusion to THe first HP book. It comes from a retelling of Jane Eyre called My Plain Jane that was published last year. Obviously, since Jane Eyre is in the public domain, there is no copyright infringement. But this book is basically a fanfic that has incorporated lots of references to other novel. Do you think this constitutes plagiarism similar to the main ones we've talked about or no? It's not word for word, but it definitely is borrowing from other works.  |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 14, 2019 6:54:13 GMT -6
Yes I believe this constitutes plagiarism.
My first question would be is it cited anywhere?
Then I would follow up with asking about the tone. In a hyperbolic "you're supposed to get this reference" tone, that would cue to me that perhaps the fic author isn't aware that this passage counts as plagiarism because they think it's obvious enough, but they still need to cite their source.
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 14, 2019 11:34:17 GMT -6
Yes I believe this constitutes plagiarism. My first question would be is it cited anywhere? Then I would follow up with asking about the tone. In a hyperbolic "you're supposed to get this reference" tone, that would cue to me that perhaps the fic author isn't aware that this passage counts as plagiarism because they think it's obvious enough, but they still need to cite their source. I have no idea if it's cited. I'm assuming not because I looked up reviews and someone mentioned how it was fun to figure out the little hidden references. Idk. Maybe there is a list in the back of the book. |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 14, 2019 18:46:31 GMT -6
Yes I believe this constitutes plagiarism. My first question would be is it cited anywhere? Then I would follow up with asking about the tone. In a hyperbolic "you're supposed to get this reference" tone, that would cue to me that perhaps the fic author isn't aware that this passage counts as plagiarism because they think it's obvious enough, but they still need to cite their source. I have no idea if it's cited. I'm assuming not because I looked up reviews and someone mentioned how it was fun to figure out the little hidden references. Idk. Maybe there is a list in the back of the book. Do you think it's worth sending a quick message to the author? |
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 14, 2019 18:55:04 GMT -6
I have no idea if it's cited. I'm assuming not because I looked up reviews and someone mentioned how it was fun to figure out the little hidden references. Idk. Maybe there is a list in the back of the book. Do you think it's worth sending a quick message to the author? I mean, I don't have contact for them. I'm assuming their agent or someone would intercept all that anyways. Like CC it got past an editorial team |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 15, 2019 6:54:50 GMT -6
Do you think it's worth sending a quick message to the author? I mean, I don't have contact for them. I'm assuming their agent or someone would intercept all that anyways. Like CC it got past an editorial team I misread, I thought this was a fanfic. I see in your OP you do say it's a published book. My bad. Yeah I'm disappointed in this editorial team too. That's a blatant HP reference and you didn't even have to read the books to catch it. Most of it is in the movie too. |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 17, 2019 13:36:53 GMT -6
Diana Gabaldon retweeted this from Cassandra Clare, who says that the charges for copyright infringement from Sherrilyn Kenyon were dropped mysteriously and is painting Kenyon as an unhinged psycho. I'm doing a little amateur research because I don't trust a thing this woman says. You don't get to rip off entire scenes from another author and then cry victim from someone else.
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 17, 2019 13:45:04 GMT -6
Diana Gabaldon retweeted this from Cassandra Clare, who says that the charges for copyright infringement from Sherrilyn Kenyon were dropped mysteriously and is painting Kenyon as an unhinged psycho. I'm doing a little amateur research because I don't trust a thing this woman says. You don't get to rip off entire scenes from another author and then cry victim from someone else. CC doesn't really have the leg to stand on here. I'm assuming the copyright issue was dropped because it's harder to prove, and Kenyon figured she'd get more if she went straight with the trademark stuff. |
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 17, 2019 13:45:46 GMT -6
And it's so gross to put the other woman's mental health out there on blast like that. It's making me feel a way.
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Post by pianolove on Jan 17, 2019 14:06:49 GMT -6
Man this one is fuzzy. The similarities are very tropey, and the worst I can find is the symbol similarities discussed I think upthread. But considering Clare's background in fanfic plagiarism I don't doubt she ripped off Kenyon at least a little, however having never read either series I can't say for sure. Here's a good post that I read about it, tl;dr Kenyon can't prove it but Clare has a sketchy history so she's probably not totally off base. playwithoutapology.com/lawsuit-kenyon-clare/ |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 17, 2019 14:10:16 GMT -6
Diana Gabaldon retweeted this from Cassandra Clare, who says that the charges for copyright infringement from Sherrilyn Kenyon were dropped mysteriously and is painting Kenyon as an unhinged psycho. I'm doing a little amateur research because I don't trust a thing this woman says. You don't get to rip off entire scenes from another author and then cry victim from someone else. CC doesn't really have the leg to stand on here. I'm assuming the copyright issue was dropped because it's harder to prove, and Kenyon figured she'd get more if she went straight with the trademark stuff. Honestly it was the shittiness of trying to discredit Kenyon with trying to make her sound insane that irks me the most. The majority of articles I read agreed that Kenyon probably couldn't prove it, and those were published before the charges were dropped. which sucks because Clare is out here like "oh poor me" and her fans are eating it up because big bad nasty Sherrilyn is coming for her. |
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 17, 2019 14:10:28 GMT -6
Man this one is fuzzy. The similarities are very tropey, and the worst I can find is the symbol similarities discussed I think upthread. But considering Clare's background in fanfic plagiarism I don't doubt she ripped off Kenyon at least a little, however having never read either series I can't say for sure. Here's a good post that I read about it, tl;dr Kenyon can't prove it but Clare has a sketchy history so she's probably not totally off base. playwithoutapology.com/lawsuit-kenyon-clare/Yeah I have nodoubt that there was some "inspiration" there. But without very clear word for word copying, I can't see it being proven. |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 17, 2019 14:11:35 GMT -6
And it's so gross to put the other woman's mental health out there on blast like that. It's making me feel a way. I shoulda kept reading, yes yes a million times yes. |
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 17, 2019 14:12:10 GMT -6
CC doesn't really have the leg to stand on here. I'm assuming the copyright issue was dropped because it's harder to prove, and Kenyon figured she'd get more if she went straight with the trademark stuff. Honestly it was the shittiness of trying to discredit Kenyon with trying to make her sound insane that irks me the most. The majority of articles I read agreed that Kenyon probably couldn't prove it, and those were published before the charges were dropped. which sucks because Clare is out here like "oh poor me" and her fans are eating it up because big bad nasty Sherrilyn is coming for her. I am honestly very much anti-CC after what I've seen through this thread. Not just the plagiarism, but the way she acts. It's very off-putting. |
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Post by pianolove on Jan 17, 2019 14:14:19 GMT -6
Honestly it was the shittiness of trying to discredit Kenyon with trying to make her sound insane that irks me the most. The majority of articles I read agreed that Kenyon probably couldn't prove it, and those were published before the charges were dropped. which sucks because Clare is out here like "oh poor me" and her fans are eating it up because big bad nasty Sherrilyn is coming for her. I am honestly very much anti-CC after what I've seen through this thread. Not just the plagiarism, but the way she acts. It's very off-putting. I'm with you. |
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