jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 1, 2020 9:54:56 GMT -6
Wow reading the beginning of this thread is wild. Also, I was going to ask if you guys want to start a fresh primary thread on Monday once the actual voting happens. After reading the fffc I think we should do a public service and have a new voter thread too. So people who aren’t as plugged in or what to learn more can hop in Like an AMA for politics
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dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
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Post by dc2london on Feb 1, 2020 9:56:11 GMT -6
Wow reading the beginning of this thread is wild. Also, I was going to ask if you guys want to start a fresh primary thread on Monday once the actual voting happens. After reading the fffc I think we should do a public service and have a new voter thread too. So people who aren’t as plugged in or what to learn more can hop in Like an AMA for politics Love this idea
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Post by blurnette989 on Feb 1, 2020 9:56:16 GMT -6
Wow reading the beginning of this thread is wild. Also, I was going to ask if you guys want to start a fresh primary thread on Monday once the actual voting happens. After reading the fffc I think we should do a public service and have a new voter thread too. So people who aren’t as plugged in or what to learn more can hop in Like an AMA for politics Oh what did I miss?!eta it started off with comparing farts to sex and skintag removal, so peaced out early.
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Post by PandaWatch on Feb 1, 2020 10:04:14 GMT -6
Wow reading the beginning of this thread is wild. Also, I was going to ask if you guys want to start a fresh primary thread on Monday once the actual voting happens. After reading the fffc I think we should do a public service and have a new voter thread too. So people who aren’t as plugged in or what to learn more can hop in Like an AMA for politics I love this idea. I was just listening to Stacey Abrams on The Wilderness podcast and she was talking about the interplay between voter registration and voter education. She made the analogy between registering someone to vote and giving someone a drivers license but not teaching them how to drive. Point being, education is critical.
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fatpony
Amethyst
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Post by fatpony on Feb 1, 2020 10:08:10 GMT -6
Where did we talk about the "nobody likes him" stuff? I'm trying to argue with someone on twitter who said that Hilz was mean first.
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richard
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Post by richard on Feb 1, 2020 10:20:00 GMT -6
::aggressively trying to find my chill::
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richard
Emerald
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Post by richard on Feb 1, 2020 10:21:05 GMT -6
Honestly tho something about the Bernie vs everyone rehash just makes my blood pressure spike in a way that little else does.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 1, 2020 10:25:57 GMT -6
Honestly tho something about the Bernie vs everyone rehash just makes my blood pressure spike in a way that little else does. I feel his way. Honestly he left such a bad taste in my mouth in 2016 that I immediately discount everything about him. I’m trying to be better
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 1, 2020 10:47:43 GMT -6
Not to pile on Bernie, but just found this thread interesting. fatponyPage 165 seems to be where it starts(ish)
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Post by punker1212 on Feb 1, 2020 10:48:44 GMT -6
Wow. This garbage behavior from Rashida is really disturbing. I think everyone here knows by now where my vote is going, but! That was stupid. Trumpian indeed. Rookie at best. You can’t get mad at Hilary for the Nobody likes him comment and the next day pull the same thing (I know, context, but still). And, what happened to the 2016 Bernie that didn’t give a crap about her damn emails and had the grace and foresight not to dig into that?
This behavior isn’t “Not me, us”. It’s not unifying and bringing everyone into the process. It doesn’t win favorabity from lifelong Dems who take issue with Bernie as an Independent. He needs to reign in his surrogates.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Feb 1, 2020 10:55:54 GMT -6
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Post by blurnette989 on Feb 1, 2020 11:00:31 GMT -6
What is also so infuriating about this is when Bernie was asked about Hillary's comments heade a relatively funny joke that in a good day only his wife likes him. So he made light of it and brushed it off and it should have been a non issue. He seemed to get that but he then let's all those around him pull this shit.
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Post by greykitty on Feb 1, 2020 11:04:41 GMT -6
Exactly - I actually liked Bernie for his response to Hillary - showed deft handling and some humor. I admit, I have issues with all of the 'squad' members, and try to give them some grace for being rookies in some situations, but now I'm angry with the campaign manager. Wondering if Bernie himself is now going to have to wade into the fray, but also if he's kind of caught between the rock and the hard place - if he tries to placate/appeal to 'regular' voters, will his base turn on him?
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richard
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Post by richard on Feb 1, 2020 11:04:49 GMT -6
Wow. This garbage behavior from Rashida is really disturbing. I think everyone here knows by now where my vote is going, but! That was stupid. Trumpian indeed. Rookie at best. You can’t get mad at Hilary for the Nobody likes him comment and the next day pull the same thing (I know, context, but still). And, what happened to the 2016 Bernie that didn’t give a crap about her damn emails and had the grace and foresight not to dig into that? This behavior isn’t “Not me, us”. It’s not unifying and bringing everyone into the process. It doesn’t win favorabity from lifelong Dems who take issue with Bernie as an Independent. He needs to reign in his surrogates. I wish everyone was this reasonable.
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Post by punker1212 on Feb 1, 2020 11:15:39 GMT -6
Exactly - I actually liked Bernie for his response to Hillary - showed deft handling and some humor. I admit, I have issues with all of the 'squad' members, and try to give them some grace for being rookies in some situations, but now I'm angry with the campaign manager. Wondering if Bernie himself is now going to have to wade into the fray, but also if he's kind of caught between the rock and the hard place - if he tries to placate/appeal to 'regular' voters, will his base turn on him? HIs base will never turn on him.
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Post by punker1212 on Feb 1, 2020 11:16:50 GMT -6
Wow. This garbage behavior from Rashida is really disturbing. I think everyone here knows by now where my vote is going, but! That was stupid. Trumpian indeed. Rookie at best. You can’t get mad at Hilary for the Nobody likes him comment and the next day pull the same thing (I know, context, but still). And, what happened to the 2016 Bernie that didn’t give a crap about her damn emails and had the grace and foresight not to dig into that? This behavior isn’t “Not me, us”. It’s not unifying and bringing everyone into the process. It doesn’t win favorabity from lifelong Dems who take issue with Bernie as an Independent. He needs to reign in his surrogates. I wish everyone was this reasonable. I think a lot of Bernie supporters are. I think the obnoxious Bernie Bros everyone references are not that many but they are freaking loud.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Feb 1, 2020 11:16:59 GMT -6
Someone in the Sanders camp is using their noggin. I like rep Khanna. Don’t always agree with him but I like him and feel he’s genuine.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Feb 1, 2020 11:19:08 GMT -6
I gotta step away from twitter now though because this is now wading into you’re a racist if you cry foul about what Tlaib did territory and they (the squad) are being held to a higher standard due to their race and religion territory and I CANNOT. Nope.
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Post by greykitty on Feb 1, 2020 11:35:36 GMT -6
punker1212, do you think the Sanders base would turn if he were elected and we suddenly saw him as an president who tried to work with Congress and, gasp, compromise to get legislation passed? You know, real world exercise of power? I get the impression the rabid supporters think a lot of executive orders will happen without opposition, both legal and voter.
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richard
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Post by richard on Feb 1, 2020 11:38:25 GMT -6
I wish everyone was this reasonable. I think a lot of Bernie supporters are. I think the obnoxious Bernie Bros everyone references are not that many but they are freaking loud. I hope that's true. I was even speaking more broadly than just Bernie supporters. I have a really hard time not getting immediately ragey about all of this. And I don't think it's productive and it plays into the GOP's hands but taking it back down a notch and seeing clearly is tough once it ratchets up.
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Post by punker1212 on Feb 1, 2020 11:42:25 GMT -6
punker1212, do you think the Sanders base would turn if he were elected and we suddenly saw him as an president who tried to work with Congress and, gasp, compromise to get legislation passed? You know, real world exercise of power? I get the impression the rabid supporters think a lot of executive orders will happen without opposition, both legal and voter. Honestly? He brought a lot of people into politics that were never a part of it before. Maybe they were young people, maybe not, but he got a lot of first time voters to turn out. So yeah, there is a lot they don’t understand. Like how primaries work and the Convention. I always think most people deserve some grace. I’d like to think that Bernie would be wise enough to give where needed to get things done- The Amendment King and whatnot. I hope he would do the service of explaining these nuances to the voting public because that’s important for now and the future.
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Post by punker1212 on Feb 1, 2020 11:48:39 GMT -6
I’m just coming off from reading some of the politics stuff on GD and I’m feeling so tired. To me, hearing people say they won’t vote for X democratic candidate (I currently exclude Tulsi and Bloomberg in m head because they are polling for shit, but things could change I guess) because they don’t like them is very akin to Sanders supporters who went third party in 2016.
Why are Dems sitting around saying their number one goal is to vote out Trump and then at the same time ritualistically badmouthing the candidates? Being Never-fill-in-the-blank-dem doesn’t help us. Painting Sanders akin to Trump doesn’t help get Trump out of office considering his polling numbers.
So much is at stake here. Support your candidate and by all means feel free to criticize the others, but keep your eyes on the prize.
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Feb 1, 2020 12:00:32 GMT -6
punker1212 , do you think the Sanders base would turn if he were elected and we suddenly saw him as an president who tried to work with Congress and, gasp, compromise to get legislation passed? You know, real world exercise of power? I get the impression the rabid supporters think a lot of executive orders will happen without opposition, both legal and voter. I honestly want Congress to limit the power of EOs. They've been misused by multiple administrations and we need to get back into our checks and balances. That said, I hope people sit down and shut up and let the system work as it was intended. Ruling by EO is autocratic and we can't keep doing that.
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Post by greykitty on Feb 1, 2020 12:04:09 GMT -6
punker1212, that's a thing I have problems with - I see a lot of the Bernie supporters and very fervent progressive voters as being the Tea Party writ left - and to me the Tea Party seemed (and seems) happier with purity tests and driving the GOP to extreme positions than actually working for the nation as a whole. Just my perception and I hope the primaries start showing us something different. I honestly feel sorry for the Iowa caucus voters - not only are they kind of in public and facing peer pressure re viable candidates, but the pressure of knowing the amount of analysis coming and effect on candidates they hold has got to be tough this year. And all those feeling torn between voting their head or their heart - I've been there and it's challenging to actually cast that vote.
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fatpony
Amethyst
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Post by fatpony on Feb 1, 2020 12:13:27 GMT -6
I’m just coming off from reading some of the politics stuff on GD and I’m feeling so tired. To me, hearing people say they won’t vote for X democratic candidate (I currently exclude Tulsi and Bloomberg in m head because they are polling for shit, but things could change I guess) because they don’t like them is very akin to Sanders supporters who went third party in 2016. Why are Dems sitting around saying their number one goal is to vote out Trump and then at the same time ritualistically badmouthing the candidates? Being Never-fill-in-the-blank-dem doesn’t help us. Painting Sanders akin to Trump doesn’t help get Trump out of office considering his polling numbers. So much is at stake here. Support your candidate and by all means feel free to criticize the others, but keep your eyes on the prize. What thread was this in?
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 1, 2020 12:17:48 GMT -6
I completely understand the I am not voting because the candidate is distasteful to me and it’s not even a matter of lesser evils, mindset. Some of it comes from a place of privilege, some of it comes from the honest belief that even if the candidate is lesser evil they personally can’t get past previous actions, I.e. Kamala and the truancy plan, (regardless of intentions and I’m not arguing that one way or other,) or Warren and her NA comments.
They are allowed to decide to vote or not on those feelings
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 1, 2020 12:18:22 GMT -6
I’m just coming off from reading some of the politics stuff on GD and I’m feeling so tired. To me, hearing people say they won’t vote for X democratic candidate (I currently exclude Tulsi and Bloomberg in m head because they are polling for shit, but things could change I guess) because they don’t like them is very akin to Sanders supporters who went third party in 2016. Why are Dems sitting around saying their number one goal is to vote out Trump and then at the same time ritualistically badmouthing the candidates? Being Never-fill-in-the-blank-dem doesn’t help us. Painting Sanders akin to Trump doesn’t help get Trump out of office considering his polling numbers. So much is at stake here. Support your candidate and by all means feel free to criticize the others, but keep your eyes on the prize. What thread was this in? Towards middle end of fffc
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Post by punker1212 on Feb 1, 2020 12:26:37 GMT -6
I completely understand the I am not voting because the candidate is distasteful to me and it’s not even a matter of lesser evils, mindset. Some of it comes from a place of privilege, some of it comes from the honest belief that even if the candidate is lesser evil they personally can’t get past previous actions, I.e. Kamala and the truancy plan, (regardless of intentions and I’m not arguing that one way or other,) or Warren and her NA comments. They are allowed to decide to vote or not on those feelings I mean yes, absolutely. Everyone gets to cast or not cast their vote as they deem. No one owns another persons vote. BUT how is this different than the Never Hillary crowd? How does this privilege support marginalized populations being very seriously hurt by our current administration, in refusing to suck it up and vote against Trump, if not for the nominee? RTA and on top of that, these same voters really don’t get to rally about unifying the party or play the blame game about who cost whom the 2020 election.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Feb 1, 2020 12:29:56 GMT -6
I’m just coming off from reading some of the politics stuff on GD and I’m feeling so tired. To me, hearing people say they won’t vote for X democratic candidate (I currently exclude Tulsi and Bloomberg in m head because they are polling for shit, but things could change I guess) because they don’t like them is very akin to Sanders supporters who went third party in 2016. Why are Dems sitting around saying their number one goal is to vote out Trump and then at the same time ritualistically badmouthing the candidates? Being Never-fill-in-the-blank-dem doesn’t help us. Painting Sanders akin to Trump doesn’t help get Trump out of office considering his polling numbers. So much is at stake here. Support your candidate and by all means feel free to criticize the others, but keep your eyes on the prize. For me and me alone. As of 2/1/20 my stance is that I won’t vote for Bernie. I have so many reasons and I’m not going to rehash them all here but I will address my strategy. I do feel like he is not much better than T in many ways. I don’t expect everyone to agree but to me it is settling for mediocrity and that’s just not my style. My strategy: I am in CA. The electoral votes for my state will go in entirety to the Dem nominee. That’s a fact. So I have more freedom with my vote - privilege if you will. I will vote in the primary for the candidate left that I feel should be the party’s nominee (I just got my ballot yesterday and pour one out for the candidates listed that are no longer running). In the general election if the nominee is Bernie or Tulsi (or maybe a couple others as it is a lifetime away), my POTUS vote will be used to communicate to the Democratic Party that I do not support their nominee of choice. I will write in Kamala Harris and vote down ballot (most likely for all Dems as I have my entire voting life). This is my one POTUS vote and as mentioned it has no consequence for who wins the election so I am using it as I see fit. I find this to be a realistic unlikely scenario and in reality I will likely be casting a vote for Biden, Warren, or Bloomberg. But that’s my plan for now. It’s not the same as being in a swing state or a state that is within say 2 million votes of not going blue. Obviously I wouldn’t play that game. And for my friends and family in those types of states I will be encouraging them to vote for the nom. Obviously I only have control over my own vote though. I will not vote blue no matter who and I won’t agree that my refusal to cast a vote for Sanders in the general is the same as voting for Stein or T in 2016. Agree to disagree on that one. I have approached the 2020 election by strategically vetting each and every candidate for myself. I read and listen to a ton, have read policies, listen to interviews, look at campaign staff makeup and strategy. I have kicked the tires. I am in the game. I want T out of office more than anything. But I’m not settling for mediocrity. I’m not trading an outright racist for a more palatable racist. Again, I have the privilege of being a highly informed engaged voter in a place where my one vote doesn’t matter (in this particular case). I will do me and everyone else can do them.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Feb 1, 2020 12:34:49 GMT -6
I completely understand the I am not voting because the candidate is distasteful to me and it’s not even a matter of lesser evils, mindset. Some of it comes from a place of privilege, some of it comes from the honest belief that even if the candidate is lesser evil they personally can’t get past previous actions, I.e. Kamala and the truancy plan, (regardless of intentions and I’m not arguing that one way or other,) or Warren and her NA comments. They are allowed to decide to vote or not on those feelings I mean yes, absolutely. Everyone gets to cast or not cast their vote as they deem. No one owns another persons vote. BUT how is this different than the Never Hillary crowd? How does this privilege support marginalized populations being very seriously hurt by our current administration, in refusing to suck it up and vote against Trump, if not for the nominee? RTA and on top of that, these same voters really don’t get to rally about unifying the party or play the blame game about who cost whom the 2020 election. Because Senator Bernard Sanders may also seriously hurt marginalized people. His record, his behavior, his associations, and his own words do not convince me that he is here for women or POC. My never Bernie stance is based on him as a candidate and person. I cannot even with the comparison to HRC. People who were “never Hillary” were not that way because of her record and accomplishments. They were that way to stick it to establishment and/or because they are misogynists.
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