|
|
Post by bunnyfungo on Dec 13, 2019 18:01:32 GMT -6
Where is the quote from? Just wondering for context. Overall, I have not been a fan of his “Americans want choice” bullshit. I don’t have a choice. I have the choice of the insurance provided by DH’s employer. Either the shitty plan, or the event shittier plan. And now that he has a job offer on the table, we have to compare the new jobs plans and he probably won’t be able to take a good job with more growth potential because it would more than double our premiums. Where is the choice in that??? Also, I had to call 911 a few weeks ago because he passed out in our kitchen, and I’m basically at an 11 at all times waiting for the bill for the ambulance/ER visit. I should have been worried about MH’s health, but instead I was worried I was bankrupting us. I’m going to start rage crying. |
|
|
|
Post by punker1212 on Dec 13, 2019 18:03:34 GMT -6
Thank you so much for sharing these. I’m not unfamiliar with the topics, so I’m going to spend some time considering whether I have responded too lightly to them because of my own Bernie bias. Also weighing how does this influence the necessity of choosing a candidate that feels good if not perfect. I still prefer his policies, but is that enough? Anyway thanks for being thought provoking. |
|
elle
Ruby
Posts: 19,820
Likes: 131,194
|
Post by elle on Dec 13, 2019 18:20:29 GMT -6
Where is the quote from? Just wondering for context. Overall, I have not been a fan of his “Americans want choice” bullshit. I don’t have a choice. I have the choice of the insurance provided by DH’s employer. Either the shitty plan, or the event shittier plan. And now that he has a job offer on the table, we have to compare the new jobs plans and he probably won’t be able to take a good job with more growth potential because it would more than double our premiums. Where is the choice in that??? Also, I had to call 911 a few weeks ago because he passed out in our kitchen, and I’m basically at an 11 at all times waiting for the bill for the ambulance/ER visit. I should have been worried about MH’s health, but instead I was worried I was bankrupting us. I’m going to start rage crying. Context is key for sure. I went looking for the details because that little snippet was surprising. |
|
elle
Ruby
Posts: 19,820
Likes: 131,194
|
Post by elle on Dec 13, 2019 18:22:44 GMT -6
And bunnyfungo, I'm so sorry for the medical/money stress. It absolutely guts me that the majority of our country teeters on the brink of financial destruction, even those with good insurance, basically one major medical event away from financial ruin. It's just not right. |
|
|
|
Post by bunnyfungo on Dec 13, 2019 19:06:00 GMT -6
Where is the quote from? Just wondering for context. Overall, I have not been a fan of his “Americans want choice” bullshit. I don’t have a choice. I have the choice of the insurance provided by DH’s employer. Either the shitty plan, or the event shittier plan. And now that he has a job offer on the table, we have to compare the new jobs plans and he probably won’t be able to take a good job with more growth potential because it would more than double our premiums. Where is the choice in that??? Also, I had to call 911 a few weeks ago because he passed out in our kitchen, and I’m basically at an 11 at all times waiting for the bill for the ambulance/ER visit. I should have been worried about MH’s health, but instead I was worried I was bankrupting us. I’m going to start rage crying. Context is key for sure. I went looking for the details because that little snippet was surprising. Thanks. I’m trying to be better about not taking tweets like that at face value. I’ve definitely seen quotes twisted. |
|
|
|
Post by Uncaripswife on Dec 14, 2019 6:03:50 GMT -6
Why is he using the Republican party talking point that people want choice in their health insurance? Who's side is he on? |
|
|
|
Post by Uncaripswife on Dec 14, 2019 6:06:35 GMT -6
Where is the quote from? Just wondering for context. Overall, I have not been a fan of his “Americans want choice” bullshit. I don’t have a choice. I have the choice of the insurance provided by DH’s employer. Either the shitty plan, or the event shittier plan. And now that he has a job offer on the table, we have to compare the new jobs plans and he probably won’t be able to take a good job with more growth potential because it would more than double our premiums. Where is the choice in that??? Also, I had to call 911 a few weeks ago because he passed out in our kitchen, and I’m basically at an 11 at all times waiting for the bill for the ambulance/ER visit. I should have been worried about MH’s health, but instead I was worried I was bankrupting us. I’m going to start rage crying. Context is key for sure. I went looking for the details because that little snippet was surprising. The context doesn't make it any better for me |
|
jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,785
Likes: 94,686
|
Post by jkjacq on Dec 14, 2019 8:18:23 GMT -6
My whole thing is people were outraged at the ACA in the beginning. Now they’ll fight to keep it.
So using language like forced or you’ll have a choice really Irritates me. You don’t have a choice when it comes to your company health plan other than to choose the high deductible or high premiums plan or none at all. You gave more choice if you choose to utilize the marketplace but that’s about it.
So yeah they may bitch about force and having a choice but once m4a is implemented and they truly have a choice of drs and networks. They’ll see the difference
|
|
Minerva
Ruby
Posts: 15,383 Likes: 67,036 
|
Post by Minerva on Dec 14, 2019 8:26:17 GMT -6
Context is key for sure. I went looking for the details because that little snippet was surprising. The context doesn't make it any better for me It’s makes me think that he doesn’t appreciate how complicated it can be for people to figure out private health insurance plans well enough to make an informed choice. Especially if your family has complicated medical needs. There are so many trade offs and ultimately you end up gambling on what type of coverage will be least expensive. Our family is lucky that we have access to all of the federal employee plans and are quantitatively savvy. DH made an Excel model of all the care we know we will need over the next year and approximate costs (the kids and I all have chronic conditions that require certain annual procedures and therapies). We sorted through the plans to see which ones covered our essential providers. We then incorporated those plans into the model. Of course, there weren’t any plans that actually covered all of our family’s needs, so then it came down to figure out which would be more expensive - a 30% coinsurance on labs and procedures (DD and I both require multiple expensive labs each year) or paying for 30+ PT and OT appointments out of pocket plus a high coinsurance on durable medical goods (DS’s orthotics). We obviously also took into account the family max OOP, deductible, and prescription coverage when making our decisions. Basically, I think expecting people with serious medical needs to create a quantitative model to actually figure out which private insurance plan is best for them is ridiculous. There are a lot of private plans that look great at first glance based only on deductible/OOPMax, but then only provide 15 therapy appointments a year regardless of medical necessity or don’t cover durable medical goods at all. Or lab costs have a second hidden deductible that is as high as the first. It’s not intuitive and most private plans still have major coverage holes. If we keep private coverage that isn’t simply supplemental to Medicaid, we need more ACA-style protections to make sure plans provide truly comprehensive coverage or Americans will continue going bankrupt accessing medical care. |
|
|
|
Post by flippinchica on Dec 14, 2019 9:11:42 GMT -6
That is impressive Minerva. I work in the healthcare system and I'm not sure I am picking the best plan for our family. And it is often unknowable. If we have no major medical issues this year and are just doing meds/preventative care it may be different than if someone gets something as simple as appendicitis. However I do understand why people would be wary of the government running all health insurance. Meanwhile the insurance companies are making money hand over fist. |
|
jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 29,116 Likes: 228,472
|
Post by jaygee on Dec 14, 2019 9:39:04 GMT -6
That is impressive Minerva. I work in the healthcare system and I'm not sure I am picking the best plan for our family. And it is often unknowable. If we have no major medical issues this year and are just doing meds/preventative care it may be different than if someone gets something as simple as appendicitis. However I do understand why people would be wary of the government running all health insurance. Meanwhile the insurance companies are making money hand over fist. Same. I have worked in claims processing on the provider side for my entire career and I get stumped trying to figure out benefits and claims processing for my own family members sometimes. But that’s a feature not a bug of our current system. Individuals really can’t do better on their own figuring this out compared to having a system where everything is in network, benefit and payment rules are clearly defined, and providers get paid quickly and correctly. |
|
dc2london
Admin 
Press Secretary
Posts: 62,922
Likes: 432,602
|
Post by dc2london on Dec 14, 2019 9:56:52 GMT -6
|
|
dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
Posts: 62,922
Likes: 432,602
|
Post by dc2london on Dec 14, 2019 9:57:17 GMT -6
Thank you so much for sharing these. I’m not unfamiliar with the topics, so I’m going to spend some time considering whether I have responded too lightly to them because of my own Bernie bias. Also weighing how does this influence the necessity of choosing a candidate that feels good if not perfect. I still prefer his policies, but is that enough? Anyway thanks for being thought provoking. Man, I really like you |
|
|
|
Post by bunnyfungo on Dec 14, 2019 10:03:10 GMT -6
He is! To keep it short, it was a blood pressure issue that was probably brought on by his meds. It was scary in the moment, but he didn’t have to be admitted or anything so in the end he was fine. Thank god. |
|
|
|
Post by doublestuf on Dec 14, 2019 12:12:56 GMT -6
Well this gave me chills and made me want to cry.
|
|
jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 29,116 Likes: 228,472
|
Post by jaygee on Dec 14, 2019 21:54:52 GMT -6
This is not a good look
|
|
|
|
Post by greykitty on Dec 15, 2019 7:54:12 GMT -6
I'm trying to decide how much weight to assign the UK election results to the upcoming US election. One hand, certainly not one to one correlation, and Corbyn was probably not a great candidate in general, from what I'm reading now - but....I also don't know if it's wise to overlook the size of the margin and where votes changed over. I admit I hadn't kept up that much and the margin surprised me.
|
|
richard
Emerald
Posts: 13,699
Likes: 128,724
|
Post by richard on Dec 16, 2019 9:10:45 GMT -6
Some interesting Super Tuesday polling in this thread:
|
|
Rebel
Platinum
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 10,118
|
Post by Rebel on Dec 16, 2019 10:00:00 GMT -6
I am hopeful I will get excited once we know who our nominee is.
But I’m not excited now by ANY of the people at the top.
I’ll admit to feeling a bit shell shocked. That we started out with such a fantastic, diverse, well rounded field. And now we are down to handful of mostly old white people.
I still like Liz Warren a lot. And I’m sure if she ends up the nominee I’ll be able to get excited about her. I just have so many serious concerns about her.
Ugh. It’s one thing to be let down by a rival party. It’s another to be led down by your own.
|
|
jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 29,116 Likes: 228,472
|
Post by jaygee on Dec 16, 2019 11:06:31 GMT -6
I am hopeful I will get excited once we know who our nominee is. But I’m not excited now by ANY of the people at the top. I’ll admit to feeling a bit shell shocked. That we started out with such a fantastic, diverse, well rounded field. And now we are down to handful of mostly old white people. I still like Liz Warren a lot. And I’m sure if she ends up the nominee I’ll be able to get excited about her. I just have so many serious concerns about her. Ugh. It’s one thing to be let down by a rival party. It’s another to be led down by your own. I am incredibly disheartened by the Democratic Party right now. And not just because of Kamala. Also because of Kristen and Castro and Booker - none getting support or resources needed to lift up their unique voices, accomplishments and plans. I feel like they are letting down the party base and just playing it safe with Biden. Where is the leadership? The party should have told Biden not to run. They should listen to their base and not polls. They should support true inclusion not on paper token diversity. I’m so angry. I’m with you, minus the Warren love. I am just letting myself rest because I don’t see myself getting enthusiastic about any of the top folks but I just need time and pragmatism to settle in. It’s a long road. We’ll get there. But I’m going to be mad for a while. |
|
pearbear
Amethyst
Posts: 5,588 Likes: 33,098
|
Post by pearbear on Dec 16, 2019 11:10:00 GMT -6
I am hopeful I will get excited once we know who our nominee is. But I’m not excited now by ANY of the people at the top. I’ll admit to feeling a bit shell shocked. That we started out with such a fantastic, diverse, well rounded field. And now we are down to handful of mostly old white people. I still like Liz Warren a lot. And I’m sure if she ends up the nominee I’ll be able to get excited about her. I just have so many serious concerns about her. Ugh. It’s one thing to be let down by a rival party. It’s another to be led down by your own. I lurk here a lot and had to post because lately have been feeling the exact same way. I don't need to love a candidate or be 'excited' by them as I was with Obama, but man, I really do not like any of the front runners right now. I just truly can not imagine having to vote for Bernie. Of course he is leaps and bounds better than Trump, but I also think the political horseshoe theory has merit and I feel like he's a similar leader who just happens to be of different ideology. I know I am kind of the rare moderate liberal here, but I am truly feeling a bit lost at the moment because I think Biden is way too old and way too problematic and I don't align with Bernie's plans at all. Feeling very bah-humbug about it all. I too hope that I get more excited when the final candidate is chosen. It just seems bleak at the moment (more than willing to keep reading, learning, and listening though. I hope my mind will change!). |
|
pearbear
Amethyst
Posts: 5,588 Likes: 33,098
|
Post by pearbear on Dec 16, 2019 11:12:28 GMT -6
I am hopeful I will get excited once we know who our nominee is. But I’m not excited now by ANY of the people at the top. I’ll admit to feeling a bit shell shocked. That we started out with such a fantastic, diverse, well rounded field. And now we are down to handful of mostly old white people. I still like Liz Warren a lot. And I’m sure if she ends up the nominee I’ll be able to get excited about her. I just have so many serious concerns about her. Ugh. It’s one thing to be let down by a rival party. It’s another to be led down by your own. I am incredibly disheartened by the Democratic Party right now. And not just because of Kamala. Also because of Kristen and Castro and Booker - none getting support or resources needed to lift up their unique voices, accomplishments and plans. I feel like they are letting down the party base and just playing it safe with Biden. Where is the leadership? The party should have told Biden not to run. They should listen to their base and not polls. They should support true inclusion not on paper token diversity. I’m so angry. I’m with you, minus the Warren love. I am just letting myself rest because I don’t see myself getting enthusiastic about any of the top folks but I just need time and pragmatism to settle in. It’s a long road. We’ll get there. But I’m going to be mad for a while. It just befuddles me that Biden remains on top. Like, how?! The man has had so many missteps and seems to barely make an effort. I too am a Kamala and Castro fan and it sucks neither gained any traction. How are our top three old, white, and out of touch?! |
|
Minerva
Ruby
Posts: 15,383 Likes: 67,036
|
Post by Minerva on Dec 16, 2019 11:49:12 GMT -6
I hear you, Rebel. I’m trying hard not to get too put off by any of the main candidates. I really like a lot of things about Warren - I feel like I could go all out for her in the general, even if I have some concerns in the primary. I’m trying to get to the same place with Joe and Bernie. I really liked this article about Biden’s history of stuttering and it has helped me understand and warm to him a bit more. amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/602401/FFMC: I felt a little gleeful at seeing how low Mayor Pete’s polling is in the Super Tuesday states. If we need a feel-good Rhodes Scholar, I’d like Booker, and if we need a Midwest moderate, I’d prefer Klobuchar. I don’t hold any hate in my heart for the good mayor, but he is not my man. |
|
Rebel
Platinum
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 10,118
|
Post by Rebel on Dec 16, 2019 12:04:56 GMT -6
I am incredibly disheartened by the Democratic Party right now. And not just because of Kamala. Also because of Kristen and Castro and Booker - none getting support or resources needed to lift up their unique voices, accomplishments and plans. I feel like they are letting down the party base and just playing it safe with Biden. Where is the leadership? The party should have told Biden not to run. They should listen to their base and not polls. They should support true inclusion not on paper token diversity. I’m so angry. I’m with you, minus the Warren love. I am just letting myself rest because I don’t see myself getting enthusiastic about any of the top folks but I just need time and pragmatism to settle in. It’s a long road. We’ll get there. But I’m going to be mad for a while. It just befuddles me that Biden remains on top. Like, how?! The man has had so many missteps and seems to barely make an effort. I too am a Kamala and Castro fan and it sucks neither gained any traction. How are our top three old, white, and out of touch?! I am just speechless that Biden is still at the top. With so many other amazing candidates that eclipse him in literally every way?! Also, this makes me question myself. I loved Uncle Joe as VP. Was I too forgiving then? (Yes). Am I being too hard on him now? (No lol). But why was he ok then and not now? Standards for VP and President should be the same. Idk. Just thinking out loud. |
|
dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
Posts: 62,922
Likes: 432,602
|
Post by dc2london on Dec 16, 2019 13:10:14 GMT -6
I am hopeful I will get excited once we know who our nominee is. But I’m not excited now by ANY of the people at the top. I’ll admit to feeling a bit shell shocked. That we started out with such a fantastic, diverse, well rounded field. And now we are down to handful of mostly old white people. I still like Liz Warren a lot. And I’m sure if she ends up the nominee I’ll be able to get excited about her. I just have so many serious concerns about her. Ugh. It’s one thing to be let down by a rival party. It’s another to be led down by your own. I feel the same. |
|
dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
Posts: 62,922
Likes: 432,602
|
Post by dc2london on Dec 16, 2019 13:13:07 GMT -6
I am incredibly disheartened by the Democratic Party right now. And not just because of Kamala. Also because of Kristen and Castro and Booker - none getting support or resources needed to lift up their unique voices, accomplishments and plans. I feel like they are letting down the party base and just playing it safe with Biden. Where is the leadership? The party should have told Biden not to run. They should listen to their base and not polls. They should support true inclusion not on paper token diversity. I’m so angry. I’m with you, minus the Warren love. I am just letting myself rest because I don’t see myself getting enthusiastic about any of the top folks but I just need time and pragmatism to settle in. It’s a long road. We’ll get there. But I’m going to be mad for a while. It just befuddles me that Biden remains on top. Like, how?! The man has had so many missteps and seems to barely make an effort. I too am a Kamala and Castro fan and it sucks neither gained any traction. How are our top three old, white, and out of touch?! Remember that most voters aren't plugged in the way we are. A lot of people probably have heard little, if anything, about the things that concern some of us about Biden (poor debate performances) or don't care (gaffes) |
|
pearbear
Amethyst
Posts: 5,588 Likes: 33,098
|
Post by pearbear on Dec 16, 2019 13:17:05 GMT -6
It just befuddles me that Biden remains on top. Like, how?! The man has had so many missteps and seems to barely make an effort. I too am a Kamala and Castro fan and it sucks neither gained any traction. How are our top three old, white, and out of touch?! Remember that most voters aren't plugged in the way we are. A lot of people probably have heard little, if anything, about the things that concern some of us about Biden (poor debate performances) or don't care (gaffes) So true, and kind of depressing. |
|
|
|
Post by Uncaripswife on Dec 16, 2019 18:04:16 GMT -6
I hear you, Rebel. I’m trying hard not to get too put off by any of the main candidates. I really like a lot of things about Warren - I feel like I could go all out for her in the general, even if I have some concerns in the primary. I’m trying to get to the same place with Joe and Bernie. I really liked this article about Biden’s history of stuttering and it has helped me understand and warm to him a bit more. amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/602401/FFMC: I felt a little gleeful at seeing how low Mayor Pete’s polling is in the Super Tuesday states. If we need a feel-good Rhodes Scholar, I’d like Booker, and if we need a Midwest moderate, I’d prefer Klobuchar. I don’t hold any hate in my heart for the good mayor, but he is not my man. Seconded. |
|
|
|
Post by punker1212 on Dec 16, 2019 20:30:25 GMT -6
Well, don't get too excited! Bernie's biggest problem, in my opinion, after letting it marinate a lot, is that he historically has approached his policies all from the privileged perspective that inequality issues are all economic, and if the economic inequalities are addressed, the racial/gender/etc inequalities will work themselves out. I think he has learned some from 2016 and has worked to include more voices in his campaign this time around, but it's still there. I have to own this because I know for a long time this was part of my worldview too. I grew up and expanded my worldview and have done a lot of antiracism self work and just lived more life to see that in addition to economic injustice there also is a strong current of white supremacy and misogyny that is part of our structural and cultural history (and present) that won't be cured by economics. So, white privilege is so real and I keep doing work in that respect; I hope I never stop learning, growing, and pushing for change. That being said, right now I think he is still my preferred candidate. He is authentic and many of his policies align with my values; he will probably do well with swing voters (but not the olds! Socialism!) and has drawn so many into the political process. His ambition to limit "big money" in politics is essential to getting the government more functional, and in 2016 during a debate he was asked what our biggest national security threat was, and responded climate change. He was right and I think he does have a lot of foresight. I really value this discourse. I am more open minded now and am more excited to watch the primary unfold before my state votes. I hope to stick around to hear more! |
|
dc2london
Admin
Press Secretary
Posts: 62,922
Likes: 432,602
|
Post by dc2london on Dec 17, 2019 13:25:22 GMT -6
The debate will happen!
|
|
