jkjacq
Ruby
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7/8
Jul 8, 2018 8:43:33 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jkjacq on Jul 8, 2018 8:43:33 GMT -6
Let’s start with good news this week
Rescue of the soccer team is underway. So far four members have been extracted. Good thoughts for the rest and the Thai seal team.
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Post by hawkeye2015 on Jul 8, 2018 9:27:14 GMT -6
- This quote from a Russian delegate is killing me. "We’re not trying to be a hero here, but we feel that it is wrong when a big country tries to push around some very small countries, especially on an issue that is really important for the rest of the world,”
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fatpony
Amethyst
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Post by fatpony on Jul 8, 2018 9:51:26 GMT -6
Thank god we are looking out for the formula companies.
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cmb
Sapphire
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Post by cmb on Jul 8, 2018 10:03:38 GMT -6
Thank god we are looking out for the formula companies. I don’t agree, am not for, do not condone, with the bullying, but I’m not 100% against this when I read the article. I need more info to verify what the spokesperson for HHS said on the reason why they did it to be able say more and form a more solid opinion
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fatpony
Amethyst
Posts: 5,579 Likes: 30,810
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Post by fatpony on Jul 8, 2018 11:22:23 GMT -6
Thank god we are looking out for the formula companies. I don’t agree, am not for, do not condone, with the bullying, but I’m not 100% against this when I read the article. I need more info to verify what the spokesperson for HHS said on the reason why they did it to be able say more and form a more solid opinion I fully admit my reading comprehension is for shit right now with a 1 month old.
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cmb
Sapphire
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Post by cmb on Jul 8, 2018 11:48:54 GMT -6
I don’t agree, am not for, do not condone, with the bullying, but I’m not 100% against this when I read the article. I need more info to verify what the spokesperson for HHS said on the reason why they did it to be able say more and form a more solid opinion I fully admit my reading comprehension is for shit right now with a 1 month old. This is the reasoning they gave. Again, I need more info because I have not seen the resolution to form my own judgment nor do I know if this reasoning is true. Again, I do not agree with their tact or bullying on this. I hate that they stooped to that. Only agreeing that a woman should be able to choose how to feed her child and not be stigmatized, be it breast or formula (though I’m sure their intention is not pure and mostly, if not all, greed).
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byjove
Ruby
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Post by byjove on Jul 8, 2018 13:05:22 GMT -6
I fully admit my reading comprehension is for shit right now with a 1 month old. This is the reasoning they gave. Again, I need more info because I have not seen the resolution to form my own judgment nor do I know if this reasoning is true. Again, I do not agree with their tact or bullying on this. I hate that they stooped to that. Only agreeing that a woman should be able to choose how to feed her child and not be stigmatized, be it breast or formula (though I’m sure their intention is not pure and mostly, if not all, greed). I mean, that is what they said, but really that translates into we are just trying to save the interests of the formula making mega companies. It’s all $$$
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Post by hawkeye2015 on Jul 8, 2018 15:50:59 GMT -6
The woman exposed to Novichok in England passed away.
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Post by Uncaripswife on Jul 8, 2018 16:39:16 GMT -6
As a woman who wanted to breastfeed but gave up after 3.5 months because it wasn't working and my kid needed more calories ... I had a really negative reaction to the various parties vilifying HHS on this. Babies need to eat nutritious food. The end.
I'm sure there are people in this administration that are looking out for the formula manufacturers.
But maybe this issue is a little more nuanced.
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elle
Ruby
Posts: 17,689 Likes: 113,334
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7/8
Jul 8, 2018 18:16:44 GMT -6
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Post by elle on Jul 8, 2018 18:16:44 GMT -6
I had the same initial reaction as many of you, women should absolutely never be made to feel as if feeding their children formula isn't good for them. However, I think the one thing being forgotten in our perspectives is that access to fresh clean water (to mix the formula with) isn't always guaranteed in many of the countries that wanted to make these resolutions. Absolutely from a U.S. perspective, fed is best. Period. But there are still areas of the world where feeding your baby formula can be harmful (water reasons, not the formula itself). And many of these countries are places where companies like Nestle have absolutely been exploitative in regards to pushing their formula the past.
*disclaimer: I hope my points are clear, I've had a long weekend with little sleep and a wiggly teething toddler in my lap currently
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Minerva
Ruby
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Post by Minerva on Jul 8, 2018 21:34:48 GMT -6
As a perfect example of the problem with the clean water argument...you've got mothers in Flint who can't breastfeed their babies because their own lead exposure means they would pass lead to their babies through their breastmilk. This has generated campaigns to provide donor milk and ready-to-feed formula (which doesn't require adding water) so babies can eat safely. And that still doesn't address how babies are bathed or how their various tools for feeding are cleaned, etc., etc. I keep seeing this argument, and it doesn't hold up. If women are living without adequate nutrition or access to safe water, breastfeeding doesn't solve these problems. And once again, we are taking a complex, multifactor INSTITUTIONAL economic issue and asking individual women to solve that problem through some largely symbolic act that often doesn't actually solve the problem. At best, it masks it temporarily. This is confounding two different issues. The clean water argument for breastfeeding focuses on biological contamination of water sources, particularly in areas where bottled water is not available, rather than chemical contamination. Particularly with the rapidly changing climate, fecal contamination can happen very quickly to previously reliable water sources. Adult women with functioning immune systems can handle a much higher bacteria and parasite load than infants. These pathogens are not passed on through breastmilk (rather some small amount of immunity to them is). Obviously providing clean, uncontaminated water to all people needs to be a priority, but in areas where the chances of fecal contamination of drinking water sources are high, breastfeeding mitigates the risk of fatal disease to infants so that they can survive to an age where their immune system is mature. Diarrhea kills so many kids and this is one known way to stop it. We can advocate for support for breastfeeding initiatives in nations where there are tangible benefits for public health, while still acknowledging that in countries such as the USA, fed is best and positive health effects from BFing are negligible for most children on an individual level. The US stance at the UN did the opposite and threatened ongoing public health initiatives.
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mb3
Sapphire
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7/8
Jul 8, 2018 22:52:08 GMT -6
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Post by mb3 on Jul 8, 2018 22:52:08 GMT -6
This is the reasoning they gave. Again, I need more info because I have not seen the resolution to form my own judgment nor do I know if this reasoning is true. Again, I do not agree with their tact or bullying on this. I hate that they stooped to that. Only agreeing that a woman should be able to choose how to feed her child and not be stigmatized, be it breast or formula (though I’m sure their intention is not pure and mostly, if not all, greed). I mean, that is what they said, but really that translates into we are just trying to save the interests of the formula making mega companies. It’s all $$$ Except....I’m actually really conflicted about this. In many many parts of the world the lack of clean water means formula is not a safe option. And solid foods are introduced too soon. But the militant push for breastfeeding also makes me see red because for those of us where breastfeeding isn’t an option, formula is a god sent miracle.
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 0:43:40 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by blurnette989 on Jul 9, 2018 0:43:40 GMT -6
I mean, that is what they said, but really that translates into we are just trying to save the interests of the formula making mega companies. It’s all $$$ Except....I’m actually really conflicted about this. In many many parts of the world the lack of clean water means formula is not a safe option. And solid foods are introduced too soon. But the militant push for breastfeeding also makes me see red because for those of us where breastfeeding isn’t an option, formula is a god sent miracle. I don't see the WHO as militant though. This is not a new stance for them, and it isn't actually law. They are suggestions for governments to base health policy on. Also much of this policy is still fighting the extreme practices of companies like Nestle that basically tricked women into thinking breastmilk was harmful and that formula (which they couldn't always afford) was the only option. I agree that much of us are looking at this through a lens of privilege and being able to afford formula, and not having had formula sales reps dress as nurses to convince us to change cultural Norms for the sake of profits.
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Post by cakewench on Jul 9, 2018 5:35:01 GMT -6
Obviously fed is best. My anger at what happened with the resolution was the US blatantly threatening countries with economic retaliation if they supported it.
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Post by cakewench on Jul 9, 2018 5:37:00 GMT -6
I don’t know if this has been shared already, but this thread goes in depth on cave diving (pun not intended) and exactly why the rescue is so dangerous:
Also seeing a fifth boy has been rescued!
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 6:27:00 GMT -6
Post by cakewench on Jul 9, 2018 6:27:00 GMT -6
CNN reporting 8 boys now rescued:
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mb3
Sapphire
Posts: 4,500 Likes: 20,802
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 6:50:47 GMT -6
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Post by mb3 on Jul 9, 2018 6:50:47 GMT -6
Except....I’m actually really conflicted about this. In many many parts of the world the lack of clean water means formula is not a safe option. And solid foods are introduced too soon. But the militant push for breastfeeding also makes me see red because for those of us where breastfeeding isn’t an option, formula is a god sent miracle. I don't see the WHO as militant though. This is not a new stance for them, and it isn't actually law. They are suggestions for governments to base health policy on. Also much of this policy is still fighting the extreme practices of companies like Nestle that basically tricked women into thinking breastmilk was harmful and that formula (which they couldn't always afford) was the only option. I agree that much of us are looking at this through a lens of privilege and being able to afford formula, and not having had formula sales reps dress as nurses to convince us to change cultural Norms for the sake of profits. Militant breastfeeding wasn’t referring to WHO per se, but the overall attitude towards it from US based groups, such as AWHONN, etc. It’s a difficult subject in the OB world and I have a lot of feels on it, sorry.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,742 Likes: 94,334
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 7:08:31 GMT -6
Post by jkjacq on Jul 9, 2018 7:08:31 GMT -6
I don't see the WHO as militant though. This is not a new stance for them, and it isn't actually law. They are suggestions for governments to base health policy on. Also much of this policy is still fighting the extreme practices of companies like Nestle that basically tricked women into thinking breastmilk was harmful and that formula (which they couldn't always afford) was the only option. I agree that much of us are looking at this through a lens of privilege and being able to afford formula, and not having had formula sales reps dress as nurses to convince us to change cultural Norms for the sake of profits. Militant breastfeeding wasn’t referring to WHO per se, but the overall attitude towards it from US based groups, such as AWHONN, etc. It’s a difficult subject in the OB world and I have a lot of feels on it, sorry. I wasnt paying attention while I was getting ready but they were talking about how the WHO information had 'misleading' information regarding the formula companies and thats what the US (and Russia) was protesting. I havent been in this so i'm not sure how true that is. I do agree with @heartbot, about how access to water is a huge thing whether or not you are formula or breastfeeding. Maybe we need to look at those causes before we go telling other people how to run their health programs. Punishing a country for the information they put out about feeding children seems really really stupid.
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 8:15:42 GMT -6
Post by cakewench on Jul 9, 2018 8:15:42 GMT -6
Boris Johnson resigns as UK foreign secretary:
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Minerva
Ruby
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Post by Minerva on Jul 9, 2018 8:18:20 GMT -6
I don't see the WHO as militant though. This is not a new stance for them, and it isn't actually law. They are suggestions for governments to base health policy on. Also much of this policy is still fighting the extreme practices of companies like Nestle that basically tricked women into thinking breastmilk was harmful and that formula (which they couldn't always afford) was the only option. I agree that much of us are looking at this through a lens of privilege and being able to afford formula, and not having had formula sales reps dress as nurses to convince us to change cultural Norms for the sake of profits. Militant breastfeeding wasn’t referring to WHO per se, but the overall attitude towards it from US based groups, such as AWHONN, etc. It’s a difficult subject in the OB world and I have a lot of feels on it, sorry. The thing is that this really isn’t about the USA, ya know? I agree with you about the militant breastfeeding folks in the US, but they are a distraction from the larger international public health crisis of infant mortality and morbidity due to waterborne pathogens. We have our own unique set of problems regarding clean drinking water and breastfeeding that are pretty different from most of the rest of the world. We also don’t have to rely on WHO to promote what is best for our country within our borders. The WHO information is targeted at countries where water is commonly and unpredictably contaminated with bacteria and parasites from fecal matter. Formula companies (::cough:: Nestle ::cough:: )have a history of predatory advertising that formula is superior to nursing in nations where drinking water contamination poses serious health risks to infants. This is what the WHO information addresses. These nations rely on WHO resources for public health campaigns that combat the misinformation that breastfeeding is substandard to formula that has been passed down several generations now, as well as to help women learn to breastfeed in communities where generational knowledge about BFing best practices has been lost. If there is a risk of fecal contamination of water sources, a multi-prong approach of encouraging breastfeeding when possible and ensuring that parents who need to formula feed have access to highly purified water (more expensive) and know the risks of using public water sources has been proven through decades of research to be very effective in reducing infant mortality and morbidity.
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byjove
Ruby
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 8:25:00 GMT -6
Post by byjove on Jul 9, 2018 8:25:00 GMT -6
Minerva , I agree. This really isn't about the state of breastfeeding in the US. I'm sure DT is not aware and does not care about BF vs formula moms in the US. This was strictly a business deal for him. The bullying of other countries is just despicable.
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 8:25:47 GMT -6
Post by ladybrienne on Jul 9, 2018 8:25:47 GMT -6
Obviously fed is best. My anger at what happened with the resolution was the US blatantly threatening countries with economic retaliation if they supported it.The bolded - yeah, that's where it was obviously taken a step WAY too far. That to me, says it's about money. And I have strong feels on the push to BF instead of FF. I was treated terribly in the hospital with N. It was like I wasn't even a person. I was a milk maid. I hadn't just given birth and been sleep deprived for more than a day. Newp. It was like formula wasn't or shouldn't even be an option. The pressure was insane and added to my PPD. In spite of this I feel like I can weed my way through the bullshit on the issue at hand here, and to me it feels like this is about money at the end of the day, per usual, especially in light of the threats made. BF is the healthiest and sometimes only option for mothers in other countries with less than me, and this affects them way more than it will ever affect me. If BF doesn't work out for me, I still have access to clean water, and really good formula.
This is yet another kick in the gut to mothers who of all things, should have support on this.
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mb3
Sapphire
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 8:37:07 GMT -6
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Post by mb3 on Jul 9, 2018 8:37:07 GMT -6
Also just FYI US hospitals base their policies on WHO guidelines. So all the push to be “baby friendly”, which is decidedly not family or mom friendly, is based on resolutions such as this one. And it’s led to domestic policies that seem to have forgotten that the mom is a patient and priority as well as just the baby.
I don’t agree with threatening economic or military support withdrawal over this, but this has consequences in the US too that go beyond just formula.
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byjove
Ruby
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 8:45:43 GMT -6
Post by byjove on Jul 9, 2018 8:45:43 GMT -6
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 9:05:40 GMT -6
Post by cakewench on Jul 9, 2018 9:05:40 GMT -6
Obviously fed is best. My anger at what happened with the resolution was the US blatantly threatening countries with economic retaliation if they supported it.The bolded - yeah, that's where it was obviously taken a step WAY too far. That to me, says it's about money. And I have strong feels on the push to BF instead of FF. I was treated terribly in the hospital with N. It was like I wasn't even a person. I was a milk maid. I hadn't just given birth and been sleep deprived for more than a day. Newp. It was like formula wasn't or shouldn't even be an option. The pressure was insane and added to my PPD. In spite of this I feel like I can weed my way through the bullshit on the issue at hand here, and to me it feels like this is about money at the end of the day, per usual, especially in light of the threats made. BF is the healthiest and sometimes only option for mothers in other countries with less than me, and this affects them way more than it will ever affect me. If BF doesn't work out for me, I still have access to clean water, and really good formula.
This is yet another kick in the gut to mothers who of all things, should have support on this.
I wasn't treated terribly, but I did feel immense pressure to BF after N was born. Between the lactation consultants and the hospital's channel with the breastfeeding videos, I felt AWFUL that N wouldn't latch and started panicking that he wasn't getting what he needed from me. Luckily the nurses didn't give me any grief for giving him formula, and that's what he got until my milk came in a few days later. I EP now and supplement with formula. He was 18.5lbs at his 6mo appointment two weeks ago, so I think he's fine. But I was in tears over feeling like a failure in the hospital. This is 100% about money and not helping mothers, no matter what their statements say. If they actually cared about mothers and healthy babies in this country, our healthcare wouldn't be under attack and our leave policies wouldn't be shit.
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byjove
Ruby
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 9:18:58 GMT -6
Post by byjove on Jul 9, 2018 9:18:58 GMT -6
Any guesses on DT's Supreme Court nomination today?
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 9:22:37 GMT -6
Post by cakewench on Jul 9, 2018 9:22:37 GMT -6
Any guesses on DT's Supreme Court nomination today? According to Nate Silver Kavanaugh and Hardiman seem to be the likeliest picks ATM, but I personally wouldn't put it past them to nominate Coney Barrett so they can trot out the "vote against her is a vote against all women" bullshit.
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byjove
Ruby
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 9:44:48 GMT -6
Post by byjove on Jul 9, 2018 9:44:48 GMT -6
Boris Johnson resigns as UK foreign secretary: I've tried to read a few other stories about this online because I'm not sure what it all means. Is there a new chance Brexit won't happen?
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 9:47:14 GMT -6
Post by cakewench on Jul 9, 2018 9:47:14 GMT -6
Also I am super fucking annoyed that Trump is announcing his decision during prime time like this is some Must-See-TV-Sweeps event. JFC he's not on the Apprentice anymore.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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7/8
Jul 9, 2018 9:48:49 GMT -6
Post by jkjacq on Jul 9, 2018 9:48:49 GMT -6
Also I am super fucking annoyed that Trump is announcing his decision during prime time like this is some Must-See-TV-Sweeps event. JFC he's not on the Apprentice anymore. Everything to him is about ratings and standings. its abhorrent
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