piratecat
Diamond
Posts: 36,259 Likes: 144,700
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Post by piratecat on May 22, 2018 17:04:03 GMT -6
This is similar to where I have landed, and seeing this thread side by side with what was imo actually vitriolic shit (aka thisbitch) has provided this perspective for me. But kirkette/any black woman also doesn’t owe me a dossier on someone’s racism in order for me to trust them, so I’m still feeling pretty torn. I'm sold on her being a racist. I've no doubts. BUT she's the same flavor racist of people we've experienced here, and their actions have been tolerated. Is the a new day or is this Ripper is cancelled because we hated that bitch anyway* *also racism. That bitch, thisbitch, can’t keep track of all them bitches.
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
Posts: 52,412 Likes: 297,405
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Post by McBenny on May 22, 2018 17:06:08 GMT -6
I am having a hard time accepting that my friends have said problematic things and even harder time calling them racist. It's not hard for me to write-off ripper because i don't like her. That's the honest answer. It's harder for me to write-off people like thisbitch or ctg because I do like them. I also have a lot in common with them. It's a weird feeling. I am very comfortable with the fact that everyone has implicit biases. I know I'm not perfect in this regard. I cut myself no slack. I would be so angry at myself if I wrote the things they wrote here, but I somehow want to forgive others. I cut other people slack and it's difficult to come face to face with that. It's not ok and I need to grow. I think it's a big thing to say. I also don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Not for all. I think it's case by case. Are they open to see the error of their ways or do they dig in?
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
Posts: 52,412 Likes: 297,405
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Post by McBenny on May 22, 2018 17:08:51 GMT -6
I feel people also have to. Come to their own conclusions. I don't see flavors of racism.
I see racial insensitivity.
I don't think lsj is racist.
I don't think Shiny is racist.
I could be all wrong. Idk
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hmmmm
New
Posts: 4 Likes: 14
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Post by hmmmm on May 22, 2018 17:14:42 GMT -6
Also, you can’t extend grace on gbcn. You get tossed. Right or wrong (and to me, it is dependent on the individual circumstances of a situation). There Are many who can vouch for me, but they aren’t allowed to publicly say so, which is fucked up beyond reason. This place is different and why I have stuck around through previous missteps. I could have taken a page from thisbitch’s playbook and peaced out but that helps nothing to slow the snowball of misinformation. Are there black posters amongst this “many” that will vouch for you? Or are you comfortable calling all of the GBCN black posters liars?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 17:20:47 GMT -6
Messy train pulling back into the station GDI, I’m about to set up shop in here like it’s the leggings thread.
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mack
Amethyst
Posts: 6,437 Likes: 49,767
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Post by mack on May 22, 2018 17:22:12 GMT -6
Also, you can’t extend grace on gbcn. You get tossed. Right or wrong (and to me, it is dependent on the individual circumstances of a situation). There Are many who can vouch for me, but they aren’t allowed to publicly say so, which is fucked up beyond reason. This place is different and why I have stuck around through previous missteps. I could have taken a page from thisbitch’s playbook and peaced out but that helps nothing to slow the snowball of misinformation. Are there black posters amongst this “many” that will vouch for you? Or are you comfortable calling all of the GBCN black posters liars? Are you comfortable posting under your own SN?
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mack
Amethyst
Posts: 6,437 Likes: 49,767
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Post by mack on May 22, 2018 17:23:34 GMT -6
Messy train pulling back into the station
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sterling
Global Moderator
GD
Posts: 15,068 Likes: 130,504
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Post by sterling on May 22, 2018 17:26:16 GMT -6
Messy train pulling back into the station GDI, I’m about to set up shop in here like it’s the leggings thread. I have learned that GBCN frowns upon that leggings thread almost as much as its creator.
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Tlex
Ruby
Posts: 22,759 Likes: 154,991
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Post by Tlex on May 22, 2018 17:26:27 GMT -6
I feel like as a white person I am obligated to try and explain to fellow white people why their views or words are problematic when I can. Whether its a good friend making a "joke" or an uncle spewing gross rhetoric, I might be the only person in their bubble to ever press them to think differently. TB and I were very close, we talked a lot off board about some similar issues in our personal lives and she had so much insight and compassion for me. I spent a lot of time with TB off board discussing the meat washing thread and PM'd that I thought coming back as though nothing had happened was the absolute worst move, ever. She was receptive to that and made her apology in the UO thread. Then... the other thread happened. I felt like why the fuck am I trying to give the benefit of the doubt if you aren't sitting at home being a tragic cliche and googling "how to address your own white fragility" like I'm doing? What are you doing to grow from this? In a way that moment showed me my own ass. I know this is a lot of the dreaded "I, I, I" statements but I am hopeful that in sharing those reflections others see something familiar and their own thinking grows, like mine so often does here. 6 months ago I would have told you I had a really progressive upbringing and my parents were the opposite of racists. There is a lot of value for me in reading the reflections and redirected thinking of others.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 17:27:08 GMT -6
Speaking of messy - there’s a poll on treehouse of whether or not liversock should be banned or not 😂😂
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mack
Amethyst
Posts: 6,437 Likes: 49,767
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Post by mack on May 22, 2018 17:29:10 GMT -6
I have learned that GBCN frowns upon that leggings thread almost as much as its creator. That fucking thread. bitch you started it
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pobre
Ruby
Posts: 22,416 Likes: 203,636
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Post by pobre on May 22, 2018 17:30:44 GMT -6
I feel like as a white person I am obligated to try and explain to fellow white people why their views or words are problematic when I can. Whether its a good friend making a "joke" or an uncle spewing gross rhetoric, I might be the only person in their bubble to ever press them to think differently. TB and I were very close, we talked a lot off board about some similar issues in our personal lives and she had so much insight and compassion for me. I spent a lot of time with TB off board discussing the meat washing thread and PM'd that I thought coming back as though nothing had happened was the absolute worst move, ever. She was receptive to that and made her apology in the UO thread. Then... the other thread happened. I felt like why the fuck am I trying to give the benefit of the doubt if you aren't sitting at home being a tragic cliche and googling "how to address your own white fragility" like I'm doing? What are you doing to grow from this? In a way that moment showed me my own ass. I know this is a lot of the dreaded "I, I, I" statements but I am hopeful that in sharing those reflections others see something familiar and their own thinking grows, like mine so often does here. 6 months ago I would have told you I had a really progressive upbringing and my parents were the opposite of racists. There is a lot of value for me in reading the reflections and redirected thinking of others. What reflections?
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mack
Amethyst
Posts: 6,437 Likes: 49,767
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Post by mack on May 22, 2018 17:31:08 GMT -6
IF I HAD MOD POWERS I WOULD HAVE ENDED IT BY NOW. You have no one to blame but yourself.
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Tlex
Ruby
Posts: 22,759 Likes: 154,991
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Post by Tlex on May 22, 2018 17:33:15 GMT -6
I feel like as a white person I am obligated to try and explain to fellow white people why their views or words are problematic when I can. Whether its a good friend making a "joke" or an uncle spewing gross rhetoric, I might be the only person in their bubble to ever press them to think differently. TB and I were very close, we talked a lot off board about some similar issues in our personal lives and she had so much insight and compassion for me. I spent a lot of time with TB off board discussing the meat washing thread and PM'd that I thought coming back as though nothing had happened was the absolute worst move, ever. She was receptive to that and made her apology in the UO thread. Then... the other thread happened. I felt like why the fuck am I trying to give the benefit of the doubt if you aren't sitting at home being a tragic cliche and googling "how to address your own white fragility" like I'm doing? What are you doing to grow from this? In a way that moment showed me my own ass. I know this is a lot of the dreaded "I, I, I" statements but I am hopeful that in sharing those reflections others see something familiar and their own thinking grows, like mine so often does here. 6 months ago I would have told you I had a really progressive upbringing and my parents were the opposite of racists. There is a lot of value for me in reading the reflections and redirected thinking of others. What reflections? Like a lot of what @juliagulia said earlier about questioning her own role, taking off blinders where friendship is concerned. Listening to black posters reflections on why they're not here to be a teacher, why they don't have to justify their humanity to anyone as Nonniedee once put it. Perspectives I would never be exposed to in my day to day.
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mack
Amethyst
Posts: 6,437 Likes: 49,767
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Post by mack on May 22, 2018 17:34:06 GMT -6
Sorry, fuck, I meant to just not engage. Old habits die hard... Did you violate the Problarity Peace Treaty of 2018?
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Tlex
Ruby
Posts: 22,759 Likes: 154,991
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Post by Tlex on May 22, 2018 17:34:06 GMT -6
Aren't a lot of people posting things in this thread that could be considered reflections? Yes, that... was what I was saying what helpful. I might be the worst writer here, I guess.
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pobre
Ruby
Posts: 22,416 Likes: 203,636
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Post by pobre on May 22, 2018 17:34:24 GMT -6
Aren't a lot of people posting things in this thread that could be considered reflections? Yes? I just didn’t see hers or if they were about thisbitch or what?
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pobre
Ruby
Posts: 22,416 Likes: 203,636
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Post by pobre on May 22, 2018 17:35:19 GMT -6
A bitch can’t even ask for clarification. Goddamn.
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mack
Amethyst
Posts: 6,437 Likes: 49,767
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Post by mack on May 22, 2018 17:38:15 GMT -6
A bitch can’t even ask for clarification. Goddamn. OK but tbh it didn't read like you were just asking because you were geniunely confused.
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pobre
Ruby
Posts: 22,416 Likes: 203,636
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Post by pobre on May 22, 2018 17:38:57 GMT -6
A bitch can’t even ask for clarification. Goddamn. OK but tbh it didn't read like you were just asking because you were geniunely confused. Ok.
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pobre
Ruby
Posts: 22,416 Likes: 203,636
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Post by pobre on May 22, 2018 17:40:22 GMT -6
I was trying to figure out if I was GOING to be snarky. Obviously.
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Pistol
Diamond
Posts: 28,064 Likes: 62,420
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Post by Pistol on May 22, 2018 17:40:45 GMT -6
I mean I think if you step back no matter your race and think about this topic of race. It's the same people talking. We have people who will never comment or participate. There could be a multitude of reasons but to me, that says something too. I feel I’m probably one of these. It’s not because I don’t want to but like others said, I’m normally coming in on a convo late in the game. Even now I’m pages behind. But also I have seen WOC say they don’t want pages of white women apologizing. I’m still very much learning what is and is not appropriate to say after the fact and I know it’s not your job to teach me. I don’t want to burden you but I don’t want to offend either.
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Post by lucilleaustero on May 22, 2018 17:42:25 GMT -6
How to say this. I think most white posters want our black posters to do the dirty work when it comes to other posters that have written racially insensitive posts. I am positive that reason for this is not unilateral and that it ranges from people avoiding confrontation to people agreeing with the racially insensitive post. There are some notable exceptions to this.
Also, I don't get looking for some board consensus on how to handle it. Unless the TOU are changed, I don't see this as a we thing. In fact, I think treating this as a we thing is detrimental.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 17:46:21 GMT -6
How to say this. I think most white posters want our black posters to do the dirty work when it comes to other posters that have written racially insensitive posts. I am positive that reason for this is not unilateral and that it ranges from people avoiding confrontation to people agreeing with the racially insensitive post. There are some notable exceptions to this. Also, I don't get looking for some board consensus on how to handle it. Unless the TOU are changed, I don't see this as a we thing. In fact, I think treating this as a we thing is detrimental. I’m not sure if the “board consensus” part is related to my question, but if so, it was not my intention to acheive that. It was more to generate ideas. Because I’m a natural problem solver so it is uncomfortable for me to read pages and pages of “I’m going to do better” but no actual action steps or ideas on how to make that happen. That’s the growth I’m doing and I thought others might be too.
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brux
Diamond
Posts: 35,448 Likes: 283,480
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Post by brux on May 22, 2018 17:49:57 GMT -6
The I’m going to do better and listen is bullshit. I don’t believe it when someone says it.
They’re just doing their best in the moment to stop being called the big bad R word.
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wasabi
Moderator
Posts: 18,924 Likes: 120,130
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Post by wasabi on May 22, 2018 17:50:32 GMT -6
See for me, I get confused. I don’t know why or how to explain it, but the posts that are all “I’m sorry, know better, do better” make me cringe a bit. I honestly am not articulate enough to explain why. So I really don’t want to jump on the apology tour, but I don’t want to not participate either. I love tit to show I’m here and reading but worry that’s not enough. I honestly don’t know how to show I’m here or listening without doing the very thing that makes me cringe. I don’t want to come off as just following suit. I’m positive I’m not making sense here. I had a whole post typed out, but this is exactly where I am. So much of the “know better/do better” comes across as disingenuous to me and I don’t want to just “jump on the bandwagon”. I haven’t been around as much as I’d like lately and have missed the recent drama (thisbitch/ripper/booby/gbcn/etc) in real time. By the time I’m caught up, I feel like adding my thoughts is either beating a dead horse or resurrecting a dead thread. I’m reading, but I don’t want to add my voice just for the sake of adding my voice, if that makes any sense. #1 to both ruby and shan-ah-doo. I hardly ever speak up in these conversations because I never really feel it’s my place to add in my useless perspective on the matter. Obviously it should be my place, and everyone’s, to call out problematic (this is another word that is losing meaning for me here tho tbh) comments and I hope I don’t act like a coward there in the future. I wouldn’t even comment now about my feelings on the subject but I have been reading what I can and hope nobody thinks I’m just ignoring the conversation and focusing on two dicked dudes and shit like that. Mostly I read what McBenny said about people being absent from the conversation and I want her to know I’m reading what she and everyone else is puttting down. Now I’m going to open a beer and catch up on the rest of the dick convo
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Post by lucilleaustero on May 22, 2018 17:50:35 GMT -6
How to say this. I think most white posters want our black posters to do the dirty work when it comes to other posters that have written racially insensitive posts. I am positive that reason for this is not unilateral and that it ranges from people avoiding confrontation to people agreeing with the racially insensitive post. There are some notable exceptions to this. Also, I don't get looking for some board consensus on how to handle it. Unless the TOU are changed, I don't see this as a we thing. In fact, I think treating this as a we thing is detrimental. I’m not sure if the “board consensus” part is related to my question, but if so, it was not my intention to acheive that. It was more to generate ideas. Because I’m a natural problem solver so it is uncomfortable for me to read pages and pages of “I’m going to do better” but no actual action steps or ideas on how to make that happen. That’s the growth I’m doing and I thought others might be too. I don't think it was, maybe, though. I don't remember which posts sparked my comment but it was definitely a few. I think asking questions on how to change your/ our approach is a good thing. That is not what I meant. I mean that we all come with our own ideas on steps forward.
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ripper
Opal
Posts: 8,601 Likes: 30,205
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Post by ripper on May 22, 2018 17:51:50 GMT -6
Also, you can’t extend grace on gbcn. You get tossed. Right or wrong (and to me, it is dependent on the individual circumstances of a situation). There Are many who can vouch for me, but they aren’t allowed to publicly say so, which is fucked up beyond reason. This place is different and why I have stuck around through previous missteps. I could have taken a page from thisbitch’s playbook and peaced out but that helps nothing to slow the snowball of misinformation. Are there black posters amongst this “many” that will vouch for you? Or are you comfortable calling all of the GBCN black posters liars? #1 I didn’t call anyone a liar. #2 you are a god damned pussy. Show yourself.
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ripper
Opal
Posts: 8,601 Likes: 30,205
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Post by ripper on May 22, 2018 17:54:10 GMT -6
Thing is, I don’t think all of your overthinking should prevent you from engaging in these discussions. But I also don’t think you need to pummel yourself if you missed an event or opportunity to comment or call out. Nothing wrong with not being the perfect police person. Anyone to suggest otherwise is promoting an impossible standard.
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Post by wesleycrusher on May 22, 2018 17:58:03 GMT -6
I don’t think we can put words behind it. At this point, it’s all bullshit. Unless we actually demonstrate what we keep preaching. I guess I feel like if we can't even give some ideas of how we would handle an actual thing that happened here, things will not change. I'm not trying to be negative, but just real. Like every person who posts here should be thinking of what we would do differently next time. I haven't commented yet on this thread and I want to give a specific example I can see of how I have failed. I've held my tongue through the hundreds of iterations of the "good schools" posts over the years but won't be going forward.
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