veggie
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Post by veggie on Apr 18, 2018 12:48:44 GMT -6
wesleycrusher, I could have written the same post about my DS1. He was 5 end of September 2017 and we put him in a Young Fives program through our public school. It's supposed to be a step between Pre-K and Kindergarten; lack of maturity being a big reason kids join the class. They get more outside/free time and have PE more often, and there is supposed to be less expected of them (although IME this is arguable). My DS1 is still struggling. Calls/emails from specials teachers, goofing off, being a distraction, etc. All this to say, I am glad he will be in Kindergarten next year, essentially "repeating" the grade. He will be one of the older, more seasoned kids this time around and I think that will work to his benefit. Not saying that I think you should hold back, I still don't know for sure how DS1 will do next year. But I just wanted to offer my experience so far.
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emma
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Post by emma on Apr 18, 2018 12:55:43 GMT -6
I would lean against holding back with this info here - but I’m not in the situation or know the players. I worry that whatever gains you may make with maturity will backslide due to boredom. I’d rather him in a classroom of comparatively mature kids with material he can handle than a room of kids with his “same” maturity level and material he already knows. But, generalizations abound in what I’m saying. This is where I'm at too. I would not hold back for immaturity if he is keeping up academically.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Apr 18, 2018 12:58:52 GMT -6
I would lean against holding back with this info here - but I’m not in the situation or know the players. I worry that whatever gains you may make with maturity will backslide due to boredom. I’d rather him in a classroom of comparatively mature kids with material he can handle than a room of kids with his “same” maturity level and material he already knows. But, generalizations abound in what I’m saying. This could be why he goofs off now. An evaluation would answer this but he could be advance and therefore bored so he messes around.
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Minerva
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Post by Minerva on Apr 18, 2018 13:33:21 GMT -6
Depends, does he need it repreated because he doesn't understand? Or because he didn't care to listen the first time? It doesn't really matter. This is practically an IEP modification he is receiving so that would imply that it's needed for him to even arrive to target. That was my thought. Individual attention in loud/chaotic situations (gym, lunch, certain specials) to help with following directions is one of the major accommodations we wrote into DS’s latest IEP. wesleycrusher, if the school determines that is something your kid needs in an evaluation, they can give it to him in the higher grades, then fade it out as he matures. If he qualifies for an IEP, it’s nice to have it codified to help his teachers be on the same page and to protect your son from inappropriate discipline from a teacher who doesn’t “get” him the way his current teacher does. ETA: Similarly, if it turns out he is academically gifted and therefore bored, they can use info from the eval to better differentiate his instruction.
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Post by mrsrgosling on Apr 18, 2018 13:45:12 GMT -6
I would lean against holding back with this info here - but I’m not in the situation or know the players. I worry that whatever gains you may make with maturity will backslide due to boredom. I’d rather him in a classroom of comparatively mature kids with material he can handle than a room of kids with his “same” maturity level and material he already knows. But, generalizations abound in what I’m saying. This is where I am. In your situation, I think I would talk to a professional (outside therapist) about an evaluation. I'm on this bench, too. DD is very end of Aug birthday; missed the cutoff by 2 days and we decided not to red shirt her. K and 1st grade was rough. 2nd grade wasn't amazing, but better and now 3rd grade she's on PAR, I'd say. Now looking back it's been completely worth it. DS is very early Sept birthday, but just missing the deadline. This last year he's been really bored in preschool and acting up for that reason.
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Post by wesleycrusher on Apr 18, 2018 13:51:56 GMT -6
It doesn't really matter. This is practically an IEP modification he is receiving so that would imply that it's needed for him to even arrive to target. That was my thought. Individual attention in loud/chaotic situations (gym, lunch, certain specials) to help with following directions is one of the major accommodations we wrote into DS’s latest IEP. wesleycrusher , if the school determines that is something your kid needs in an evaluation, they can give it to him in the higher grades, then fade it out as he matures. If he qualifies for an IEP, it’s nice to have it codified to help his teachers be on the same page and to protect your son from inappropriate discipline from a teacher who doesn’t “get” him the way his current teacher does. ETA: Similarly, if it turns out he is academically gifted and therefore bored, they can use info from the eval to better differentiate his instruction. I definitely don't think he'd gifted. He seems like an average kid to me (ETA I've taught the K class at church the last few years so obviously I'm an expert. lol I've seen some gifted kids come through there and DS is not it). The teacher just brought up this one-to-one thing this morning, so maybe it was her subtle way of saying he's not as on target as we thought? But if that was the case, or she is going out of her way with him, I would have thought she would have mentioned it before.
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Post by wesleycrusher on Apr 18, 2018 13:58:56 GMT -6
Also thank you everyone for your responses. It's given me more to think about and some more questions to ask.
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Post by angelashly on Apr 18, 2018 13:59:33 GMT -6
My kid is a known talker in school. In kindergarten it was more of a problem than in first because her teacher this year has said that she knows it is because she finishes her work faster than others so she talks. She has come up with plans on letting her do extra sheets or taking crayons and coloring the back of the page.
I say this to say that I agree that the behavior is going to get worse next year possibly if he already knows the work and is bored
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Post by wesleycrusher on Apr 18, 2018 14:05:13 GMT -6
My kid is a known talker in school. In kindergarten it was more of a problem than in first because her teacher this year has said that she knows it is because she finishes her work faster than others so she talks. She has come up with plans on letting her do extra sheets or taking crayons and coloring the back of the page. I say this to say that I agree that the behavior is going to get worse next year possibly if he already knows the work and is bored I think a big issue is that he's made friends. which sounds funny but is true! It took a few months of the school year to figure out who in his class will goof off with him when the teacher's back is turned. He now has a "partner in crime" in class. That friendship has developed the longer the school year has gone on.
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Post by angelashly on Apr 18, 2018 14:10:32 GMT -6
My kid is a known talker in school. In kindergarten it was more of a problem than in first because her teacher this year has said that she knows it is because she finishes her work faster than others so she talks. She has come up with plans on letting her do extra sheets or taking crayons and coloring the back of the page. I say this to say that I agree that the behavior is going to get worse next year possibly if he already knows the work and is bored I think a big issue is that he's made friends. which sounds funny but is true! It took a few months of the school year to figure out who in his class will goof off with him when the teacher's back is turned. He now has a "partner in crime" in class. That friendship has developed the longer the school year has gone on. i get it. I asked for dd and her partner to be split up if possible for 1st to see if it eliminated the problem.
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Post by wesleycrusher on Apr 18, 2018 14:12:51 GMT -6
I think a big issue is that he's made friends. which sounds funny but is true! It took a few months of the school year to figure out who in his class will goof off with him when the teacher's back is turned. He now has a "partner in crime" in class. That friendship has developed the longer the school year has gone on. i get it. I asked for dd and her partner to be split up if possible for 1st to see if it eliminated the problem. We did that for K- his partner from preschool is in a different class but he found a new one! It's something that's never going to end!
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jrun2013
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Post by jrun2013 on Apr 18, 2018 14:39:36 GMT -6
I agree with regal that he'll be bored and his behavior might be worse next year if he already understands the material. I'm sorry, but I'm really curious. What does it mean to be virtual twins? Feel free to ignore if that's too personal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 14:41:25 GMT -6
I agree with regal that he'll be bored and his behavior might be worse next year if he already understands the material. I'm sorry, but I'm really curious. What does it mean to be virtual twins? Feel free to ignore if that's too personal. I think because they're only 10 months apart, so they're less than a year in age difference
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 14:44:34 GMT -6
My DS is similar in that he acts up or doesn't always follow rules, can get into trouble, etc ... although I will say, having the teacher he did over this past year in K I think whipped him a little more into shape because she was very strict and consistent and we've seen a lot of growth and improvement.... but he still has a ways to go.
But anyway
As far as academically, he is at level if not above level... and I KNOW for a fact if he were to repeat K because of immaturity issues, those issues would get 10x worse because of boredom. Even as it is NOW, he acts out when he's bored, which is often, because he's the type that picks things up quickly and then wants to just get it done and move on ....he lacks patience in that way, and also is a major attention seeker
Repeating would be a fail for my DS, even though he still has some growing to do in the behavior department
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Minerva
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Post by Minerva on Apr 18, 2018 14:50:29 GMT -6
i get it. I asked for dd and her partner to be split up if possible for 1st to see if it eliminated the problem. We did that for K- his partner from preschool is in a different class but he found a new one! It's something that's never going to end! My DS has one of these in his class as well. They get along great, but oh my goodness, the trouble they get into when you put them together. They are going to different schools for kindie, so we'll see if DS finds another partner in crime next year.
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jrun2013
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Post by jrun2013 on Apr 18, 2018 14:53:51 GMT -6
I agree with regal that he'll be bored and his behavior might be worse next year if he already understands the material. I'm sorry, but I'm really curious. What does it mean to be virtual twins? Feel free to ignore if that's too personal. I think because they're only 10 months apart, so they're less than a year in age difference I think she said 10 weeks though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 14:56:25 GMT -6
I think because they're only 10 months apart, so they're less than a year in age difference I think she said 10 weeks though. They are a family built through adoption.
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adelbert
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Post by adelbert on Apr 18, 2018 15:02:30 GMT -6
I would definitely have mine repeat a year. Personally all the teachers I know say it makes a huge difference in terms of maturity and all my ancedotes dealing with similar situations have been positive when they have repeated and less so when not. But I think it depends a lot on your school setup and teachers and the child.
I also feel like if it's going to happen K is the perfect time for it.
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Post by wesleycrusher on Apr 18, 2018 15:17:16 GMT -6
I think because they're only 10 months apart, so they're less than a year in age difference I think she said 10 weeks though. Virtual twins is a term that's used for siblings less than 9 months apart. DS and DD are 10 weeks apart due to adoption but they straddle the school cutoff line- DS has a late July birthday and DD is early October.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 15:20:42 GMT -6
Oh I thought it said months. That goes to show how tired I am today...yeesh
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jrun2013
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Post by jrun2013 on Apr 18, 2018 15:29:02 GMT -6
I think she said 10 weeks though. They are a family built through adoption. Ah gotcha. Thank you.
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jrun2013
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Post by jrun2013 on Apr 18, 2018 15:30:12 GMT -6
I think she said 10 weeks though. Virtual twins is a term that's used for siblings less than 9 months apart. DS and DD are 10 weeks apart due to adoption but they straddle the school cutoff line- DS has a late July birthday and DD is early October. Thank you! I had never heard that term before and when I googled it was all about tech stuff.
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Post by wesleycrusher on Apr 18, 2018 15:31:35 GMT -6
Virtual twins is a term that's used for siblings less than 9 months apart. DS and DD are 10 weeks apart due to adoption but they straddle the school cutoff line- DS has a late July birthday and DD is early October. Thank you! I had never heard that term before and when I googled it was all about tech stuff. Pro tip: if you Google put it in quotes
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trueblue
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Post by trueblue on Apr 18, 2018 16:24:10 GMT -6
Just a thought from a mom further down the path and this may be 100% my issue not yours. DS1 is a late September birthday against a December cut off at our first school district. We could have red shirted him but didn’t. DA1 struggled with maturity issues from day 1. In second grade we moved states to where the cut off is Sept 1. The school system put him in the grade he was in prior to the move so he is a full year/sometimes almost 2 if the other child was redshirted.
Now Academically he is grade level or beyond in 5th grade, but he still struggles with maturity and all of his good friends are his age and in 4th. I regret sending him, especially since we moved and now he is so much younger than his classmates. Puberty is starting for a lot of them at 11, but as a young 10 year old we aren’t there. He has mentioned he will always be the youngest, the last to get his drivers license, etc. I would not be adverse to him taking a gap year between high school and college.
It’s hard to predict long term stuff but please keep in mind that it’s not just the early elementary years, it’s middle school and high school too.
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Post by nevertoomanyshoes on Apr 18, 2018 17:05:32 GMT -6
I’ve only ever recommended repeating K a couple of times to parents in 11 years of teaching and never for just immaturity on its own. I would definitely want an evaluation done and a meeting with the teacher, guidance officer and AP or principal so you can get a clear and honest picture from them about where he is socially and academically compared to his peers.
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Yogurt
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Post by Yogurt on Apr 18, 2018 17:18:53 GMT -6
Is it a small school and they could end up in the same class? Are there combined classes and he could be put in a K/1? this is what we often do if a kid could use a little practice with the previous years expectations. Personally, if kids are too immature for the grade they in, it's the expectations that need to change, not the kid. Unfortunately it's a system issue, and not one that parents can change. There are 3 K classes and right now 2 classes for every other grade (k-8). There is no K/1 but I wish there was. I haven't read past this, but in my school the combo kids are carefully chosen. A k/1 combo would have high kinders and low first graders. There is an expectation of being able work independently while teacher instructs the other group. So it might not be the best answer, even if it did exist at your school
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Apr 18, 2018 17:40:53 GMT -6
Research shows without a doubt that retaining a child almost always does more harm than good. We dealt with teachers recommending it for DD and I fought it based on all the research. I’m so glad that I did. By grade 4 or 5, all things even out and the percentage of retained kids that drop out for anything other than sickness is very high. There is a stigma attached, especially in a small school.
ETA: I don’t mean to sound dramatic, but my post posted too early. I would not retain a child without an evaluation. It’s better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have it.
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jrun2013
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Post by jrun2013 on Apr 18, 2018 18:38:39 GMT -6
Thank you! I had never heard that term before and when I googled it was all about tech stuff. Pro tip: if you Google put it in quotes I tried that too, still tech stuff. Apparently there's some tech program called virtual twin.
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joy
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Post by joy on Apr 18, 2018 19:14:45 GMT -6
Just a thought from a mom further down the path and this may be 100% my issue not yours. DS1 is a late September birthday against a December cut off at our first school district. We could have red shirted him but didn’t. DA1 struggled with maturity issues from day 1. In second grade we moved states to where the cut off is Sept 1. The school system put him in the grade he was in prior to the move so he is a full year/sometimes almost 2 if the other child was redshirted. Now Academically he is grade level or beyond in 5th grade, but he still struggles with maturity and all of his good friends are his age and in 4th. I regret sending him, especially since we moved and now he is so much younger than his classmates. Puberty is starting for a lot of them at 11, but as a young 10 year old we aren’t there. He has mentioned he will always be the youngest, the last to get his drivers license, etc. I would not be adverse to him taking a gap year between high school and college. It’s hard to predict long term stuff but please keep in mind that it’s not just the early elementary years, it’s middle school and high school too. I was this kid. I was dead last in age in my class. Last to drive, last to drink, etc. I went to college at 17. I’m fine. Yes, there were some freak outs about being youngest over the years, but it eventually just was. All kids are different, of course, but I wanted to let you know from a kid who lived it, it’ll be okay!!
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cribs
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Post by cribs on Apr 18, 2018 19:19:11 GMT -6
Research shows without a doubt that retaining a child almost always does more harm than good. We dealt with teachers recommending it for DD and I fought it based on all the research. I’m so glad that I did. By grade 4 or 5, all things even out and the percentage of retained kids that drop out for anything other than sickness is very high. There is a stigma attached, especially in a small school. ETA: I don’t mean to sound dramatic, but my post posted too early. I would not retain a child without an evaluation. It’s better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have it. This is where I am. there are very few situations I would hold a kid or send them late
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