Ls2012
Amethyst
Posts: 7,364 Likes: 32,621
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Post by Ls2012 on Feb 9, 2018 10:50:36 GMT -6
Damn.
I'm so sorry for your friend and those other ladies that went through that. Such utter bullshit. Fuck that church and any such shittery that blames their own instead of advocating for them.
I'm glad they came together and their stories are out.
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Post by Uncaripswife on Feb 9, 2018 11:00:34 GMT -6
There is a faction of Christianity that treats women like willful children who need corporal discipline. I'm not surprised to hear that some clergy respond to DV with "try harder to be a godly wife and you won't deserve hitting anymore." My feels on this are influenced by my own renouncement of Christianity, so I don't think I can be rational or coherent. I feel rageful.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 9, 2018 11:04:55 GMT -6
One of my friends had commented on a similar post on FB a couple of months ago, specific to a church here in the North. Apparently its well known that this 'pastor' counsels this all the time. The comments were...something. Like a whole facet of the church came after the woman who left and stuck up for the pastor and the church. it was disgusting.
I'm sorry for your friend.
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Post by enchanted on Feb 9, 2018 15:00:42 GMT -6
I'm sorry for your friend. I hate the people who did that to her. Like actual literal hate and not just words on the internet.
PDQ because I will poof later.
And *poof*
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Post by enchanted on Feb 9, 2018 18:23:09 GMT -6
enchanted, that sounds very familiar. I'm so sorry she went through all that. Thank you. She still has some emotional shit she's working through, but she's tough as hell and now married to a really good guy.
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Feb 9, 2018 19:13:13 GMT -6
I hate that there are churches out there like this. This is not biblical or Christian in anyway.
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Post by honeylemon on Feb 9, 2018 20:28:05 GMT -6
My feels on this are influenced by my own renouncement of Christianity, so I don't think I can be rational or coherent. I feel rageful. You are me on this. I was raised strict fundy Baptist and saw so many awful things covered up or excused. I was slowly distancing myself from Christianity throughout adulthood but up until a year or so ago, I still considered myself Christian. Then Trump happened. And I got cancer. Seeing people I thought I respected as”godly people” support that horrid man pushed me closer towards atheism. The thing that pushed me over the edge to renouncing religion completely was seeing my mom tell someone on FB that her “greatest hope from [my cancer diagnosis] was that it would bring me closer to God.” That was it. She accomplished the opposite of what she wanted. Fuck it all.
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Post by honeylemon on Feb 9, 2018 20:29:14 GMT -6
Sorry if that’s not totally coherent. I had surgery today and I’m on pain meds.
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Feb 9, 2018 20:57:36 GMT -6
honeylemon, that's an awful thing for your mother to say. I'm sorry.
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Post by Uncaripswife on Feb 9, 2018 21:03:13 GMT -6
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Post by enchanted on Feb 9, 2018 21:08:37 GMT -6
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Post by blurnette989 on Feb 9, 2018 21:46:37 GMT -6
honeylemon hugs. I'm so sorry your mom said such a thing.
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Post by hawkeye2015 on Feb 9, 2018 22:08:28 GMT -6
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Post by oreobitsy on Feb 9, 2018 22:22:54 GMT -6
honeylemon I hope you're feeling ok tonight and resting. That's a crap thing for your mom to say, I'm sorry you had to deal with that kind of insensitivity along with everything else.
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Taitai
Opal
Posts: 8,305 Likes: 54,853
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Post by Taitai on Feb 10, 2018 7:19:14 GMT -6
honeylemon I am so, so sorry for what your mom wrote on FB regarding your cancer diagnosis. I can't wrap my mind around how horrible that is - yet I'm also not surprised. One half of my family is very conservative evangelical Christian, and I could imagine so many of them saying (or thinking) something like that. I'm so sorry - that must have been in incredibly hurtful to read. Hugs.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 10, 2018 7:25:18 GMT -6
honeylemon. I’m so sorry. I hope you’re feeling better today
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Taitai
Opal
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Post by Taitai on Feb 10, 2018 7:29:13 GMT -6
@heartbot Like I said in the post above - one side of my family is super conservative evangelical Christian, and I could definitely imagine some of them trying to "look past" or somehow justify domestic abuse/violence. It's awful and very twisted.
That said, I also think there are some evangelical/non-denominational churches that are more progressive and would absolutely not tolerate anything like what was in your OP. One church I used to attend (while I was in University) had a really great pastor who would regularly preach about marriage. He strongly advocated for zero tolerance of domestic abuse (violence or verbal) and he also basically said the whole "woman submit" thing was stupid and just a tool for men to be assholes. The church was also welcoming of the LGBTQ community. Unfortunately, pastors/churches like that are very rare to come by. It's really, really unfortunate. It's also one of the reasons I haven't been able to find a church that I like (or regularly attend) for the past 15 yrs. ☹️
Edited - autocorrect
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cmb
Sapphire
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Post by cmb on Feb 10, 2018 7:38:15 GMT -6
honeylemon that’s an awful, horrid thing to say. I hope you are resting
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Feb 10, 2018 7:48:33 GMT -6
@heartbot Like I said in the post above - one side of my family is super conservative evangelical Christian, and I could definitely imagine some of them trying to "look past" or somehow justify domestic abuse/violence. It's awful and very twisted. That said, I also think there are some evangelical/non-denominational churches that are more progressive and would absolutely not tolerate anything like what was in your OP. One church I used to attend (while I was in University) had a really great pastor who would regularly preach about marriage. He strongly advocated for zero tolerance of domestic abuse (violence or verbal) and he also basically said the whole "woman submit" thing was stupid and just a tool for men to be assholes. The church was also welcoming of the LGBTQ community. Unfortunately, pastors/churches like that are very rare to come by. It's really, really unfortunate. It's also one of the reasons I haven't been able to find a church that I like (or regularly attend) for the past 15 yrs. ☹️ Edited - autocorrect The submission part of that passage comes right after Paul telling the men to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. Which he died for. I hate when sermons focus on one and not the other. It's supposed to be a mutual relationship not an imbalances one where one person has the responsibility and blame in what happens. Sorry for the mini rant.
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Taitai
Opal
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Post by Taitai on Feb 10, 2018 7:52:26 GMT -6
@heartbot Like I said in the post above - one side of my family is super conservative evangelical Christian, and I could definitely imagine some of them trying to "look past" or somehow justify domestic abuse/violence. It's awful and very twisted. That said, I also think there are some evangelical/non-denominational churches that are more progressive and would absolutely not tolerate anything like what was in your OP. One church I used to attend (while I was in University) had a really great pastor who would regularly preach about marriage. He strongly advocated for zero tolerance of domestic abuse (violence or verbal) and he also basically said the whole "woman submit" thing was stupid and just a tool for men to be assholes. The church was also welcoming of the LGBTQ community. Unfortunately, pastors/churches like that are very rare to come by. It's really, really unfortunate. It's also one of the reasons I haven't been able to find a church that I like (or regularly attend) for the past 15 yrs. ☹️ Edited - autocorrect The submission part of that passage comes right after Paul telling the men to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. Which he died for. I hate when sermons focus on one and not the other. It's supposed to be a mutual relationship not an imbalances one where one person has the responsibility and blame in what happens. Sorry for the mini rant. I agree with this. Basically, our pastor argued that if a husband was truly loving his wife as Christ loved the church, the husband would never have to play the "woman submit" card. Instead, the husband and wife would work out a mutually agreeable solution/compromise - as that is what a pure, loving relationship looks like (I.e. Christ's perfect love for his flock)
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cmb
Sapphire
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Post by cmb on Feb 10, 2018 8:09:47 GMT -6
Like a lot of you, I was raised in “christian” household. It was used as an excuse for mental and emotional abuse. Whenever my stepfather would threaten suicide (once every month or so), he’d tell us to pray for him but do nothing to get better. The church used it as an excuse to judge anyone who had a child or even sex out of wedlock, anyone who got divorced, those of the LBGTQ community and were out about it, those struggling with their mental health. Triggering stuff under spoilers Then I got pregnant at 17, but hid it until I ultimately miscarried. I hid that, too. Parents that kicked out their daughters for that same situation were told that their daughter had lost her way and she would be prayed for.
I left 6 days after I graduated high school and never looked back. I can count on my one hand the amount of times I’ve stepped in a church since then. And then my friend from HS committed suicide. She was very into her Christian beliefs, but she also felt ashamed because of her mental health instability. At her funeral, her pastor talked about how she struggled with anxiety and depression for 15 years (she would have been 27 a week later), but so few people knew. He talked about her faith and how people prayed it would save her, and it didn’t.
When I went back to work later that week, one of my workmates came up to me and starts talking about how she’s in heaven and asks what I believe (it was the week of our annual bureau meeting so people knew why I wasn’t there). I flat out said I don’t know what I believe, . His condescending reply was “you want to get on that and figure it out.” He uses his religion to tout his anti-woman, anti-anything not of super conservative values spiels, just like my aunt and uncles do. The last year and a half have been enough for me to completely denounce any religious leanings I may still have had
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Post by Uncaripswife on Feb 10, 2018 8:24:22 GMT -6
cmb I'm sorry. I'm especially sorry that teenage you had no support for what happened to you and the loss you experienced.
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Post by oreobitsy on Feb 10, 2018 8:24:55 GMT -6
I have some family members who go to church frequently and believe in this type of husband/wife dynamic. In a respectful, functional, and traditional setting it can work. But, throw in a possible abusive situation or a non-traditional relationship, and it gets harder to make it work. If you have a same sex couple, how do you determine which person is the decison maker? If the decision maker is not considering the other's needs, how do they proceed?
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Post by oreobitsy on Feb 10, 2018 8:30:35 GMT -6
cmb I'm so sorry, especially for having to deal with things on your own as a teen.
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Post by honeylemon on Feb 10, 2018 8:37:44 GMT -6
cmb I’m so sorry you had to experience that alone. I also struggled with mental health issues as a teen and was told that depression just means you’re not right with God. So many kids aren’t getting the help they need. It’s really troubling.
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Post by honeylemon on Feb 10, 2018 8:39:33 GMT -6
And thank you all for the support. I’ve released most of my anger towards my parents but the hurt is still there sometimes.
I’m doing ok. I had an oophorectomy yesterday to try to reduce my cancer recurrence risk. Thankful for pain meds today.
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Post by enchanted on Feb 10, 2018 12:44:42 GMT -6
cmb My heart aches for teenaged you dealing with that alone. <3 I'm so sorry about your friend.
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sterling
Global Moderator
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Post by sterling on Feb 10, 2018 18:51:50 GMT -6
I want to hug everyone in here.
I was raised Catholic, and I just can't call myself one anymore. The Catholicism I knew seems like it was such a perfect little liberal bubble, and the broader Catholic church is still supremely fucked. I hope I'm alive to see the day it comes crashing down from all the lies and coverups and evil they are perpetrating.
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Post by enchanted on Feb 10, 2018 19:27:45 GMT -6
I want to hug everyone in here. I was raised Catholic, and I just can't call myself one anymore. The Catholicism I knew seems like it was such a perfect little liberal bubble, and the broader Catholic church is still supremely fucked. I hope I'm alive to see the day it comes crashing down from all the lies and coverups and evil they are perpetrating. Same here. The Catholic school and church I attended are completely different from the rest of Catholicism. I actually don't even believe in any higher power anymore, but the long road to that began with being angry at the Catholic Church as a whole.
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Taitai
Opal
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Post by Taitai on Feb 10, 2018 20:10:11 GMT -6
cmb I am so sorry for what you went through, and that you had to face it alone as a teenager. And then what happened to your friend. Big hugs.
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