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Post by roseinbloom on Jan 9, 2018 17:33:41 GMT -6
Sure. I mean in general. For example, I frequently hear things like “ I wish I had it in me to be a liberal, but I live in the real world.” That’s a light example but one I hear a lot where I am, and it’s frustrating. It’s not even about the views. It suggests the person who agrees more with the Democratic Party is in fantasy land with thoughts that lack a basis in reality and it completely dismissed anything that might come next. I’m not sure I’m explaining well but I guess I’m saying politeness in the way of NOT having a conversation to avoid disagreements is bad, but on the other end personal attacks tend to shut down dialogue, too. I had a similar convo with a coworker. Shes like I dont consider myself a feminist. I was why not? being a feminist doesnt mean bra burning man hating. It means that you as a woman stand up for other women to make choices, to work or stay home, to have kids or not, to not be subject to your father or spouse, to marry or not. You can be any of those things and supportive of what you dont choose because it doesnt work for YOU but it does for them. She really had not thought about it that way. So when someone says something similar to what you posted, my response would be "why shouldnt we be supportive of those who are unable by any reason of those who can't support themselves" (and for WW fans "Be subject to one another"). In the real world we SHOULD be taking care of one another. The most expedient way would be by the government because not everyone subscribes to the same religion and this country was founded on freedom FROM religion. So we can't only rely on churches. We can't be the most wonderful country in the world if we allow our most vulnerable to languish. By allowing our children to go hungry, our vets to be homeless, our disabled to be mocked, we are only bringing shame on ourselves. Prefacing this with: I agree with you. But Talking about social justice with hard-core or Tea Party Republicans is kind of like talking to a white liberal about institutional racism. The Republicans I have interacted with would take serious umbrage at the "we SHOULD be taking care of one another" (an ethical statement they'll read as implying only Democrats are morally conscientious) and become morally and personally defensive with some iteration of: "but I donate to charity and provide food and goods for the homeless through my church group every Sunday, Tuesday, and Wednesday!!" My approach would be to come armed with an arsenal of statistics about the realities of economic dispersion and social implications of specific legal enforcement. Some folks vote out of pure selfishness; taking a moral high ground regarding The Better Good is unlikely to succeed with them. And some people who won't confront or challenge themselves in the heat of the moment are likely to double-down with "fake news" retorts. But, for those people who are unempathetic simply due to lack of exposure to certain social, economic, and legal realities, my experience is that they can be swayed by statistics or heart-string-pulling personal stories. I'm not saying we ["we": by which I mean people who choose to engage] have to butter people up to consider the facts cited from transparent sources, but I do think the best way to go is awareness & avoidance of language often read to imply superiority (morally or intellectually) and which shuts people down. This is written by a person who often falls into the traps I just described. There's no empowering satisfaction from a stinging or witty conquest or a moral plea, but it's the most effective method I've found so far. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 17:45:02 GMT -6
Holy shit Bannon stepped down from Breitbart. Woah. That's a big step. Where do we think he'll land? Hopefully the depths of Satan’s asshole |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 17:45:06 GMT -6
Harris and Booker are on Senate Judiciary Cmmtte I'm legit so happy about this. |
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Post by coconutbacon on Jan 9, 2018 17:46:19 GMT -6
North Carolina Congressional Map Ruled Unconstitutionally Gerrymanderedhttps://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/09/us/north-carolina-gerrymander.html
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 17:46:29 GMT -6
Holy shit Bannon stepped down from Breitbart.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 17:47:05 GMT -6
North Carolina Congressional Map Ruled Unconstitutionally Gerrymanderedhttps://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/09/us/north-carolina-gerrymander.html Today....does not suck? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 17:49:09 GMT -6
I fucking love Kamala Harris sooooooooooo much
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 17:50:58 GMT -6
Kamala questioning Jefferson...  |
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ktg
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Post by ktg on Jan 9, 2018 18:05:58 GMT -6
ok, So I'm going to contact the local party about running for City Council. What do I say? I feel like a total newb here. I want to figure out exactly what they want from me before I commit. But I want to do this. I never thought I'd get into politics. What in the world has happened to me? Have you checked out whatever the city council website has already? There should be information there about things like job duties, time commitment, and the inevitable paperwork to fill out. That might give you a better starting point than your local party, since anyone can run for city council. |
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Jan 9, 2018 18:08:11 GMT -6
I fucking love Kamala Harris sooooooooooo much Me too! She's definitely my Congressional crush. I'd love to see her in the Oval someday. |
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Post by hawkeye2015 on Jan 9, 2018 18:09:18 GMT -6
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Jan 9, 2018 18:09:34 GMT -6
ok, So I'm going to contact the local party about running for City Council. What do I say? I feel like a total newb here. I want to figure out exactly what they want from me before I commit. But I want to do this. I never thought I'd get into politics. What in the world has happened to me? Have you checked out whatever the city council website has already? There should be information there about things like job duties, time commitment, and the inevitable paperwork to fill out. That might give you a better starting point than your local party, since anyone can run for city council. Our site is VERY spartan. They have minutes and agendas from council meetings and contact for employees/council members. That's about it. I'm only thinking about contacting the party because my SIL said they'd back me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 18:14:40 GMT -6
Have you checked out whatever the city council website has already? There should be information there about things like job duties, time commitment, and the inevitable paperwork to fill out. That might give you a better starting point than your local party, since anyone can run for city council. Our site is VERY spartan. They have minutes and agendas from council meetings and contact for employees/council members. That's about it. I'm only thinking about contacting the party because my SIL said they'd back me. How does it work where you live? Would you be running for your ward? Is there a councilmember from a different ward who might be someone you could set up a meeting with to get insight from? Or are they all at-large seats where you’d be in competition with people currently in office? |
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Jan 9, 2018 18:24:07 GMT -6
Our site is VERY spartan. They have minutes and agendas from council meetings and contact for employees/council members. That's about it. I'm only thinking about contacting the party because my SIL said they'd back me. How does it work where you live? Would you be running for your ward? Is there a councilmember from a different ward who might be someone you could set up a meeting with to get insight from? Or are they all at-large seats where you’d be in competition with people currently in office? It's by ward. But I haven't really endeared myself to any of the council members from my previous attendances to the council meetings. There is one guy I could maybe talk to. But we live in a small town and there are only three wards. Maybe I can talk to a previous council member. They may like me better. Lol The person I am supposed to contact per my SIL is the chair for my ward for the local Dems. |
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Jan 9, 2018 18:24:52 GMT -6
Also two of the three are a father and daughter. The daughter would be the one I'm trying to oust.
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Minerva
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Post by Minerva on Jan 9, 2018 18:29:15 GMT -6
Poor mini-ByJove. I hope she recovers quickly. They think that DD has the same virus that gave DS croup this weekend. The pedi gave us a neb to use on her. Cold and flu season is such a B. Hope the nebulizer works for her and she feels better soon. Both my girls have the flu and RSV right now, so we're a serious hot mess. I hope they feel better soon! |
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milano
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Post by milano on Jan 9, 2018 18:36:48 GMT -6
You know I hate Ivanka :-) |
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Post by silverspoon on Jan 9, 2018 18:53:02 GMT -6
You know I hate Ivanka :-) I... never made this connection before. I thought you just really liked those cookies. TBF the pic is tiny on mobile. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 18:58:34 GMT -6
Hi guys! Just want to check in and say hi. I’m at my third long term subbing position of the year so I won’t be around too much. But guys, this class! This teacher I’m with! (I’m subbing in the para position for 4/5 year olds) This school! I love it so much. My kid is so lucky to go here. Awww. I’m glad to see you so excited for your assignment and kids. You will be great! |
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 9, 2018 19:06:52 GMT -6
I had a similar convo with a coworker. Shes like I dont consider myself a feminist. I was why not? being a feminist doesnt mean bra burning man hating. It means that you as a woman stand up for other women to make choices, to work or stay home, to have kids or not, to not be subject to your father or spouse, to marry or not. You can be any of those things and supportive of what you dont choose because it doesnt work for YOU but it does for them. She really had not thought about it that way. So when someone says something similar to what you posted, my response would be "why shouldnt we be supportive of those who are unable by any reason of those who can't support themselves" (and for WW fans "Be subject to one another"). In the real world we SHOULD be taking care of one another. The most expedient way would be by the government because not everyone subscribes to the same religion and this country was founded on freedom FROM religion. So we can't only rely on churches. We can't be the most wonderful country in the world if we allow our most vulnerable to languish. By allowing our children to go hungry, our vets to be homeless, our disabled to be mocked, we are only bringing shame on ourselves. Prefacing this with: I agree with you. But Talking about social justice with hard-core or Tea Party Republicans is kind of like talking to a white liberal about institutional racism. The Republicans I have interacted with would take serious umbrage at the "we SHOULD be taking care of one another" (an ethical statement they'll read as implying only Democrats are morally conscientious) and become morally and personally defensive with some iteration of: "but I donate to charity and provide food and goods for the homeless through my church group every Sunday, Tuesday, and Wednesday!!" My approach would be to come armed with an arsenal of statistics about the realities of economic dispersion and social implications of specific legal enforcement. Some folks vote out of pure selfishness; taking a moral high ground regarding The Better Good is unlikely to succeed with them. And some people who won't confront or challenge themselves in the heat of the moment are likely to double-down with "fake news" retorts. But, for those people who are unempathetic simply due to lack of exposure to certain social, economic, and legal realities, my experience is that they can be swayed by statistics or heart-string-pulling personal stories. I'm not saying we ["we": by which I mean people who choose to engage] have to butter people up to consider the facts cited from transparent sources, but I do think the best way to go is awareness & avoidance of language often read to imply superiority (morally or intellectually) and which shuts people down. This is written by a person who often falls into the traps I just described. There's no empowering satisfaction from a stinging or witty conquest or a moral plea, but it's the most effective method I've found so far. Finding out at the onset of a conversation of what they think a ‘liberal ‘ is is also helpful. The girl I talked to was raised inthe south and literally thought being feminist meant the 60s version of bra burning etc. obviously I was doing cliff notes in mine. Yours was much closer to an actual conversation. It’s a sort of joke between me and one of the guys who leans more conservative that I’m the office pinko liberal commie. He is reasonable however and when we disagree or he flat out states something incorrectly I do backup with hard facts. Most recently that more fraud in welfare programs was not committed by people using the program but by management and companies. I learned a lot that day just from researching for myself and so did he. |
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cnf
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Post by cnf on Jan 9, 2018 19:09:27 GMT -6
But he's very fine people, obvs. |
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Jan 9, 2018 19:19:42 GMT -6
DH saw this picture and said "that guy does not look happy". I was like, well he's a terrorist, so... |
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 9, 2018 19:20:00 GMT -6
I also know that no matter how many facts or stories sometimes you’re just not gonna change somebody’s mind.
Know when to fold so to speak
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Post by shadesofgold on Jan 9, 2018 19:24:55 GMT -6
ETA: Trump lawyer suing buzzfeed and fusion gps for defamation, apparently.
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Post by roseinbloom on Jan 9, 2018 19:30:52 GMT -6
Finding out at the onset of a conversation of what they think a ‘liberal ‘ is is also helpful. The girl I talked to was raised inthe south and literally thought being feminist meant the 60s version of bra burning etc. obviously I was doing cliff notes in mine. Yours was much closer to an actual conversation. It’s a sort of joke between me and one of the guys who leans more conservative that I’m the office pinko liberal commie. He is reasonable however and when we disagree or he flat out states something incorrectly I do backup with hard facts. Most recently that more fraud in welfare programs was not committed by people using the program but by management and companies. I learned a lot that day just from researching for myself and so did he. Yes, definitely. I've also had conversations that went sideways until we discovered we were operating with different definitions. Half the time having these...conversations, shall we call them?...I worry that I'm somehow inadvertently legitimizing the "calmly debating white person," but at the same time I feel that in order to do my part as an activist/educator and make real change I have to meet people at their level and go from there. (And how's that language for a superiority complex? 😬) |
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sterling
Global Moderator 
GD
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Post by sterling on Jan 10, 2018 5:25:58 GMT -6
North Carolina Congressional Map Ruled Unconstitutionally Gerrymanderedhttps://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/09/us/north-carolina-gerrymander.html Today....does not suck? This tho: |
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sterling
Global Moderator
GD
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Post by sterling on Jan 10, 2018 5:27:18 GMT -6
I know I’m a map nerd, but this redistricting stuff is just so huge. It shapes everything in every state.
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sterling
Global Moderator
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Post by sterling on Jan 10, 2018 5:35:32 GMT -6
In case you all need a CJ Craig update on the census:
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Post by blurnette989 on Jan 10, 2018 5:37:36 GMT -6
I know I’m a map nerd, but this redistricting stuff is just so huge. It shapes everything in every state. I feel like the 2020 census is already fucked too. Even without Tom whathisass. It is so huge and really isn't getting the attention it deserves because it isn't sexy and it isn't immediate. |
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Post by blurnette989 on Jan 10, 2018 5:41:24 GMT -6
When my dad worked for the 2000 census counting the homeless, prisoners, migrant workers, poorer people who needed more outreach to respond, etc. Were all super important efforts. My dad's job was to convince small communities that it was in their favor to count ALL people because it would affect their Alice of the budget pie. However, if not counted, it gives white middle and upper class (more likely to be conservative) a larger voice politically.
It's all so so so so so important. Not a map nerd, but a huge census nerd.
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