Post by geekygirly on Feb 13, 2024 15:59:39 GMT -6
What is happening to civilians in Gaza in indeed horrific. They don’t deserve what is happening to them.
However, a few thoughts.
While Netanyahu is evil and maybe wouldn’t mind a genocide of Palestinians, I don’t think what the IDF has done so far would qualify as genocide. Since 1960, the population of Gaza has grown from 265k to over 2 million. (And this is after Israel left Gaza, forcibly removing its own people.) If Israel wanted genocide, why would they allow the population to grow so much? Israel easily has the military capability to wipe Gaza off the map if they wanted to (and racist statements from some right-wing Israeli leaders don’t help matters). But there isn’t a specific number of deaths that qualifies a genocide. The US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and firebombing of Tokyo) wasn’t considered genocide. The Allies bombing of Germany wasn’t considered genocide. Because it was a war, and the other side attacked first, just as Hamas did. Israel has made multiple ceasefire offers that have been rejected. And the reality is, Hamas still has Israeli (and other nationality) hostages. Am I saying that means that every military action has been valid and not up for debate? No - but warfare, especially urban warfare, is awful and horrific.
The death toll does not identify combatants vs civilians. Israel/US Intelligence stated on January 21 that 5000-9000 Hamas combatants have been killed since the start of the war. The recent raid in Rafah rescued two hostages. (Which if everyone there were civilians, why were there hostages there?) Does that mean the other civilians deserved to die? No. Again, urban warfare is horrific
Al Jazeera is Qatari-state-funded media. Qatar is one of the largest funders of Hamas. I’m not saying that everything they say is inaccurate, but it is something to keep in mind when reading stuff from them where they may have a vested interest. (There have also been instances in the past where they have published different information in their Arabic vs. US publications.)
Regarding the funding bill that was signed, over 75% of it goes towards Israel defenses such as the Iron Dome, and to US operations in the region. As of December (the latest data I have seen), over 12,000 rockets have been fired at Israel since October. Each Iron Dome rocket interception costs about $60k. Without that protection (along with safe rooms, etc.), the casualty count in Israel would likely be much closer to Gaza. (And unfortunately, about 10% of Hamas rockets misfire and end up landing in Gaza. I doubt the casualties from those are listed separately.)
According to the Organization for Economic Development and Cooperation, between 1994 and 2020, Palestinians have received $40 billion in international aid. This doesn’t count the money Hamas makes through heavy taxation of Palestinians in Gaza (as much as 20% on imports), black market smuggling fees, etc. Where is all that money going? Why doesn’t Gaza have its own defense systems or safe rooms? Why aren’t civilians allowed to use the tunnels (which must have cost huge amounts of money to build) for shelter, instead of only being used by militants? I’m not blaming the civilians for this, but it just shows the lack of care that Hamas has for its own people. Their leaders have said “We are a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”
I’ve written much more than I meant to here. But I guess I’m tired of Israel being framed as the only one at fault in this situation, and the only one who can do something about it. Again, the innocent civilians in Gaza don’t deserve this, and I want to see an end to the fighting. I want the Palestinians to have their own country (which, sadly, I don’t see Netanyahu allowing, but I hope the support might be there in Israel with a change in leadership, which will only happen once the fighting ends). I disagree with the settlements in the West Bank.
But at the same time, Hamas has said they won’t stop fighting. That they will repeat October 7th again and again and again. How do you achieve peace with someone whose charter includes your extermination? It all just sucks
And regarding Biden, he is definitely stuck behind a rock and a hard place. I’m sure he feels for the people in Gaza, but is also thinking about much of what I’ve said here. The far-left wants him to cut off funding for Israel. The Jewish left wants him to continue it. (The US has the highest Jewish population outside of Israel, even though Jews only make 0.2% of the population worldwide.) No matter what he does, he will upset some of his base. And if we cut off funding for Israel, we also LOSE some ability to pressure them. They’d be going it alone, so Netanyahu could do whatever he wants with the shackles off. I’m sure Biden is trying his best, and I’m sure Trump-lets-move-the embassy-to-Jerusalem wouldn’t be better for Gaza.
However, a few thoughts.
While Netanyahu is evil and maybe wouldn’t mind a genocide of Palestinians, I don’t think what the IDF has done so far would qualify as genocide. Since 1960, the population of Gaza has grown from 265k to over 2 million. (And this is after Israel left Gaza, forcibly removing its own people.) If Israel wanted genocide, why would they allow the population to grow so much? Israel easily has the military capability to wipe Gaza off the map if they wanted to (and racist statements from some right-wing Israeli leaders don’t help matters). But there isn’t a specific number of deaths that qualifies a genocide. The US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and firebombing of Tokyo) wasn’t considered genocide. The Allies bombing of Germany wasn’t considered genocide. Because it was a war, and the other side attacked first, just as Hamas did. Israel has made multiple ceasefire offers that have been rejected. And the reality is, Hamas still has Israeli (and other nationality) hostages. Am I saying that means that every military action has been valid and not up for debate? No - but warfare, especially urban warfare, is awful and horrific.
The death toll does not identify combatants vs civilians. Israel/US Intelligence stated on January 21 that 5000-9000 Hamas combatants have been killed since the start of the war. The recent raid in Rafah rescued two hostages. (Which if everyone there were civilians, why were there hostages there?) Does that mean the other civilians deserved to die? No. Again, urban warfare is horrific
Al Jazeera is Qatari-state-funded media. Qatar is one of the largest funders of Hamas. I’m not saying that everything they say is inaccurate, but it is something to keep in mind when reading stuff from them where they may have a vested interest. (There have also been instances in the past where they have published different information in their Arabic vs. US publications.)
Regarding the funding bill that was signed, over 75% of it goes towards Israel defenses such as the Iron Dome, and to US operations in the region. As of December (the latest data I have seen), over 12,000 rockets have been fired at Israel since October. Each Iron Dome rocket interception costs about $60k. Without that protection (along with safe rooms, etc.), the casualty count in Israel would likely be much closer to Gaza. (And unfortunately, about 10% of Hamas rockets misfire and end up landing in Gaza. I doubt the casualties from those are listed separately.)
According to the Organization for Economic Development and Cooperation, between 1994 and 2020, Palestinians have received $40 billion in international aid. This doesn’t count the money Hamas makes through heavy taxation of Palestinians in Gaza (as much as 20% on imports), black market smuggling fees, etc. Where is all that money going? Why doesn’t Gaza have its own defense systems or safe rooms? Why aren’t civilians allowed to use the tunnels (which must have cost huge amounts of money to build) for shelter, instead of only being used by militants? I’m not blaming the civilians for this, but it just shows the lack of care that Hamas has for its own people. Their leaders have said “We are a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”
I’ve written much more than I meant to here. But I guess I’m tired of Israel being framed as the only one at fault in this situation, and the only one who can do something about it. Again, the innocent civilians in Gaza don’t deserve this, and I want to see an end to the fighting. I want the Palestinians to have their own country (which, sadly, I don’t see Netanyahu allowing, but I hope the support might be there in Israel with a change in leadership, which will only happen once the fighting ends). I disagree with the settlements in the West Bank.
But at the same time, Hamas has said they won’t stop fighting. That they will repeat October 7th again and again and again. How do you achieve peace with someone whose charter includes your extermination? It all just sucks
And regarding Biden, he is definitely stuck behind a rock and a hard place. I’m sure he feels for the people in Gaza, but is also thinking about much of what I’ve said here. The far-left wants him to cut off funding for Israel. The Jewish left wants him to continue it. (The US has the highest Jewish population outside of Israel, even though Jews only make 0.2% of the population worldwide.) No matter what he does, he will upset some of his base. And if we cut off funding for Israel, we also LOSE some ability to pressure them. They’d be going it alone, so Netanyahu could do whatever he wants with the shackles off. I’m sure Biden is trying his best, and I’m sure Trump-lets-move-the embassy-to-Jerusalem wouldn’t be better for Gaza.