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Post by babybean on Nov 17, 2023 12:48:11 GMT -6
Israel attacked another refugee camp. who here can still actually defend the IOF and Zionism?? speak up, I just wanna talk real quick. Zionism as in the existence of Israel? My hand is raised. ETA: I absolutely in no way defend or condone what Israel is doing right now. Full sincerity with this inquiry. I’m wondering why you support the establishment of an ethnostate whose existence came at the expense of over a million people who were displaced and killed, and have continued to be for 75 years. I unequivocally believe Jewish folks have the right to exist free from persecution, but there are many persecuted groups who do not have statehood. I don’t understand what gives Israel the ‘right’ to one. |
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Post by SweetPotato on Nov 17, 2023 12:56:31 GMT -6
Zionism as in the existence of Israel? My hand is raised. ETA: I absolutely in no way defend or condone what Israel is doing right now. Full sincerity with this inquiry. I’m wondering why you support the establishment of an ethnostate whose existence came at the cost of over a million people who were displaced and killed, and have continued to be for 75 years. I unequivocally believe Jewish folks have the right to exist free from persecution, but there are many persecuted groups who do not have statehood. I don’t understand what gives Israel the ‘right’ to one. I wouldn’t have made the decision to displace anyone to establish it at the time. But I wouldn’t make the decision to displace people to dissolve it now. |
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Post by babybean on Nov 17, 2023 13:11:38 GMT -6
Full sincerity with this inquiry. I’m wondering why you support the establishment of an ethnostate whose existence came at the cost of over a million people who were displaced and killed, and have continued to be for 75 years. I unequivocally believe Jewish folks have the right to exist free from persecution, but there are many persecuted groups who do not have statehood. I don’t understand what gives Israel the ‘right’ to one. I wouldn’t have made the decision to displace anyone to establish it at the time. But I wouldn’t make the decision to displace people to dissolve it now. Palestinian liberation and reparations doesn’t necessarily mean Jewish displacement though? |
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Post by SweetPotato on Nov 17, 2023 13:18:44 GMT -6
I wouldn’t have made the decision to displace anyone to establish it at the time. But I wouldn’t make the decision to displace people to dissolve it now. Palestinian liberation and reparations doesn’t necessarily mean Jewish displacement though? I guess I don’t see how one is possible without the other but am open to hearing about it. |
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Post by babybean on Nov 17, 2023 13:31:19 GMT -6
Palestinian liberation and reparations doesn’t necessarily mean Jewish displacement though? I guess I don’t see how one is possible without the other but am open to hearing about it. I understand, and agree this can’t be reduced to a simple black and white scenario. I do find it interesting though that with the “either-or” mindset it’s the Palestinians who are expected to remain dispossessed because the thought of dissolving/displacing Israel/Israeli’s is unfathomable. Not a targeted comment, just in general when I see discourse about seeing no mutually beneficial solution. ETA: I appreciate you responding. |
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Post by Pam Poovey on Nov 17, 2023 13:33:21 GMT -6
I mean, they apparently all lived together before, no?
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Post by babybean on Nov 17, 2023 13:36:33 GMT -6
I mean, they apparently all lived together before, no? This is true but it also wasn’t all daisies. |
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Post by Pam Poovey on Nov 17, 2023 13:38:05 GMT -6
of course not but it wasn't apartheid either. ultimately things can't and more importantly shouldn't continue like this.
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Sweetjane
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Post by Sweetjane on Nov 17, 2023 13:39:07 GMT -6
We are a global universe, people move all over the world.
Why should any one group be guaranteed a separate ethnostate?
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notblanche
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Post by notblanche on Nov 17, 2023 14:03:50 GMT -6
Palestinians don't have passports of their own. Heck, they can't even move about freely on their own land. And that was the status quo prior to what's happening now. The unemployment rate among Gazans is astronomical. Because it's nearly impossible to travel from one place to another. The videos I've seen of the checkpoints will haunt me. And I remember reading a story (Was it shared here?) about a surfing club in Gaza; one said their surfboards are so important to them because they only have so many and they can't get more. People should be able to see the world or pray in Jerusalem or go to work or go surfing, and that shouldn't be seen as a threat.
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notblanche
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Post by notblanche on Nov 17, 2023 14:07:59 GMT -6
I finished Minor Detail by Adania Shibli today and it needs all of the trigger warnings (colonization, open wounds, SA, murder) but I can't recommend it enough. Further, the author was supposed to receive an award at the Frankfurt Book Fair (which is a huge deal in the book world) in October, and her ceremony was canceled. Which wasn't cool. Reading and listening and learning more from Palestinian voices is one of the most impactful things we can do.
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Post by Pam Poovey on Nov 19, 2023 9:48:30 GMT -6
This is something I’ve been trying to articulate these past few weeks. The level of assurances people have to give just for advocating for humanity is frustrating. And I’m sure infuriating to many. www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRvSoaoF/ |
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Sweetjane
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Post by Sweetjane on Nov 21, 2023 10:43:33 GMT -6
What a gracious man. If you want a bit of positivity, this is a quick watch of a Palestinian refugee on a plane 🇵🇸 www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8yec7td/ |
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Nov 21, 2023 14:45:14 GMT -6
Can I just say, fuck this.  |
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Post by miawallace on Nov 21, 2023 21:29:09 GMT -6
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Post by miawallace on Nov 21, 2023 21:34:26 GMT -6
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origami
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Post by origami on Nov 21, 2023 22:25:43 GMT -6
It's not enough but I'm glad there is a starting line at least. Hopefully there are aggressive g7 negotiations during the ceasefire. |
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Post by babybean on Nov 21, 2023 23:45:49 GMT -6
I’m glad Palestinians are being released as well, but I’m gutted thinking about what they’re returning to, and if they even have family left. Ugh.
I’m glad Israeli children are going to be released too.
No kids deserve this.
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Sweetjane
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Post by Sweetjane on Nov 22, 2023 6:52:30 GMT -6
It's definitely not enough, it's a total mindfuck. Blow up the hospitals, and then give them four days to set up a field hospital? That's mental shit right there. I did hear an audio of Motaz last night, and they had a text exchange as well. Where is Bisan?💚 |
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Post by babybean on Nov 22, 2023 11:25:30 GMT -6
Plestia got out of Gaza! I’m happy she and her family are safer but can’t imagine the survivors guilt and having to witness all of what’s going to continue from the outside. Palestinians shouldn’t have to leave to survive.
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Post by babybean on Nov 22, 2023 11:27:14 GMT -6
I also think this puts a bigger target on remaining journalists like Motaz and Bisan.
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sullivan
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Post by sullivan on Nov 22, 2023 21:45:47 GMT -6
I’m glad Palestinians are being released as well, but I’m gutted thinking about what they’re returning to, and if they even have family left. Ugh. I’m glad Israeli children are going to be released too. No kids deserve this. After the discussions here (and more reading/watching I’ve done since then), the propaganda surrounding this exchange is so obvious. Even AP says that the “hostages” will be released from Gaza, and the “prisoners” from Israel. As if all of those Palestinian women and CHILDREN that have been imprisoned in Israel are to be thought of as people who did something wrong. It’s insane how one sided everything is even when it seems as though it’s just basic facts being reported. |
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Post by babybean on Nov 22, 2023 22:14:23 GMT -6
I’m glad Palestinians are being released as well, but I’m gutted thinking about what they’re returning to, and if they even have family left. Ugh. I’m glad Israeli children are going to be released too. No kids deserve this. After the discussions here (and more reading/watching I’ve done since then), the propaganda surrounding this exchange is so obvious. Even AP says that the “hostages” will be released from Gaza, and the “prisoners” from Israel. As if all of those Palestinian women and CHILDREN that have been imprisoned in Israel are to be thought of as people who did something wrong. It’s insane how one sided everything is even when it seems as though it’s just basic facts being reported. the amount of comments I’ve seen calling the Palestinian women and children in this exchange ‘terrorists’ horrifies me. They’re often held without due process. Literal children. |
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STP
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Post by STP on Nov 27, 2023 8:57:26 GMT -6
The fact that children aren't automatically immune from hostage taking - that it isn't a human unity horse without even needing to be said - is I think what has completely destroyed my faith in any real motion forward.
I knew it, of course.
But I didn't KNOW it the way I do now.
And I find the propaganda "look at this heartfelt reunion" videos enraging. These kids are traumatized for life. You destroyed their lives. Hamas and Israel alike.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Nov 27, 2023 10:03:49 GMT -6
I finally got a chance to watch the John Oliver segment on the conflict and it’s really good. It addresses the conflict in a very modern way. Like - look, yeah there is history and it’s complicated but look what is happening right now and dare to tell me it’s ok.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Nov 27, 2023 10:11:00 GMT -6
The 3 Palestinian students that were shot by a white man in Vermont and the media language around hostages versus prisoners under 18 broke me this weekend.
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notblanche
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Post by notblanche on Nov 28, 2023 7:52:52 GMT -6
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Post by enchanted on Nov 28, 2023 8:23:29 GMT -6
Headlines last night and today are that the ceasefire is being extended a couple more days. I hope it keeps getting extended indefinitely.
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overboard
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Post by overboard on Nov 28, 2023 9:57:00 GMT -6
The 3 Palestinian students that were shot by a white man in Vermont and the media language around hostages versus prisoners under 18 broke me this weekend. Same. One of the victims has a spinal injury. I hope they add hate crime charges. |
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Post by geekygirly on Nov 28, 2023 11:24:26 GMT -6
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