dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Mar 8, 2023 10:54:35 GMT -6
This is something Tim Kaine has been pushing for for YEARS.
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Post by mrsweasley on Mar 8, 2023 10:55:10 GMT -6
DS1 struggled a lot with middle school and turning things in, it got better in HS. He cares about his grades enough to make sure he passes but not to get the best grade possible. He's not really on social media but uses Discord to talk to friends
I think this is likely coupled with the online/social media aspect of being able to connect more easily with other people with similar feelings and the increased workload/pushing kids to do more earlier. The difference in what was expected in kindergarten for my oldest and what will be expected from my youngest is astounding. They're burning out
And of course throw in older generations complaining about how nobody wants to work and everybody wants things handed to them but also that schools just need to stick to the basics while continuing to pass legislation that contradicts that, it's ridiculous
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origami
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Post by origami on Mar 8, 2023 10:56:31 GMT -6
Woof what a thing to say about public schools. I imagine the educators on this board would feel pretty strongly about being insulted like that. Whew took the words out of my mouth. Love blanket statements about my profession that mirror fox news talking points. Love it. And for the record, the teacher reddits are almost fully comprised of people who should not be in the profession and don't actually like kids.
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Post by mrsweasley on Mar 8, 2023 10:56:35 GMT -6
Also, major props to all teachers (here and everwhere) and all the work you do. We're expecting too much out of teachers and students. We're going to break the education system
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Mar 8, 2023 10:59:07 GMT -6
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origami
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Post by origami on Mar 8, 2023 10:59:20 GMT -6
And also, kids just lived thru COVID and we're mad they don't care about their grades? They were forgotten about completely. They lost family and friends. Their parents lost jobs. They had friends go dark that were never heard from again. They were passed thru grades without even participating. They have very little mental and emotional support because the adults are also struggling and people are fleeing both education and mental health care because they're treated like shit.
There's a precedent for the lack of caring about grades. They're trying to stay alive.
Jaysus.
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willow
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Post by willow on Mar 8, 2023 11:03:04 GMT -6
Also, major props to all teachers (here and everwhere) and all the work you do. We're expecting too much out of teachers and students. We're going to break the education system As Sharon Says So likes to remind, there are no crowds of teachers waiting in the wings to come jump in when all these educators keep leaving for one reason or another based on how parents and the system are treating them.
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Mar 8, 2023 11:05:46 GMT -6
Also, major props to all teachers (here and everwhere) and all the work you do. snip 100%!!
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Mar 8, 2023 11:09:34 GMT -6
And also, kids just lived thru COVID and we're mad they don't care about their grades? They were forgotten about completely. They lost family and friends. Their parents lost jobs. They had friends go dark that were never heard from again. They were passed thru grades without even participating. They have very little mental and emotional support because the adults are also struggling and people are fleeing both education and mental health care because they're treated like shit. There's a precedent for the lack of caring about grades. They're trying to stay alive. Jaysus. I am not sure if this was directed at me, but that was basically the point of the original discussion topic I posted, and I don't disagree. I also think it's appropriate to encourage my 4th grader to take care in her school work.
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origami
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Post by origami on Mar 8, 2023 11:10:01 GMT -6
Also, major props to all teachers (here and everwhere) and all the work you do. We're expecting too much out of teachers and students. We're going to break the education system As Sharon Says So likes to remind, there are no crowds of teachers waiting in the wings to come jump in when all these educators keep leaving for one reason or another based on how parents and the system are treating them. Nor paraeducators, bus drivers, lunch staff. We're drowning and we want so badly for our kids to be ok. Conformist worker bees my ass. Kids deserve an education and public school is the safest and best way for them to get a free and fair one that actually gives a shit about them. Ooh I'm hot.
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origami
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Post by origami on Mar 8, 2023 11:10:58 GMT -6
And also, kids just lived thru COVID and we're mad they don't care about their grades? They were forgotten about completely. They lost family and friends. Their parents lost jobs. They had friends go dark that were never heard from again. They were passed thru grades without even participating. They have very little mental and emotional support because the adults are also struggling and people are fleeing both education and mental health care because they're treated like shit. There's a precedent for the lack of caring about grades. They're trying to stay alive. Jaysus. I am not sure if this was directed at me, but that was basically the point of the original discussion topic I posted, and I don't disagree. I also think it's appropriate to encourage my 4th grader to take care in her school work. Not you, just a general sentiment about "kids don't care anymore"
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Mar 8, 2023 11:12:19 GMT -6
I am not sure if this was directed at me, but that was basically the point of the original discussion topic I posted, and I don't disagree. I also think it's appropriate to encourage my 4th grader to take care in her school work. Not you, just a general sentiment about "kids don't care anymore" I think there needs to be a lot of rethinking of how we approach school and engage students.
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origami
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Post by origami on Mar 8, 2023 11:22:43 GMT -6
Not you, just a general sentiment about "kids don't care anymore" I think there needs to be a lot of rethinking of how we approach school and engage students. I think we also need to talk about the way we generalize taking about public schools (again, not you, just expounding). There are 50 state education systems and 16,800 individual school districts. Christ there are 74 million students. What you hear even on friendly news stations is the most miniscule slice. Even in Florida there are teachers and schools trying to fight the tide of bullshit and make sure kids get what they need. So.
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Mar 8, 2023 11:29:22 GMT -6
I think there needs to be a lot of rethinking of how we approach school and engage students. I think we also need to talk about the way we generalize taking about public schools (again, not you, just expounding). There are 50 state education systems and 16,800 individual school districts. Christ there are 74 million students. What you hear even on friendly news stations is the most miniscule slice. Even in Florida there are teachers and schools trying to fight the tide of bullshit and make sure kids get what they need. So. Yes!
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starbuck
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Post by starbuck on Mar 8, 2023 11:42:39 GMT -6
And also, kids just lived thru COVID and we're mad they don't care about their grades? They were forgotten about completely. They lost family and friends. Their parents lost jobs. They had friends go dark that were never heard from again. They were passed thru grades without even participating. They have very little mental and emotional support because the adults are also struggling and people are fleeing both education and mental health care because they're treated like shit. There's a precedent for the lack of caring about grades. They're trying to stay alive. Jaysus. Yes. Amen. All of this.
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Minerva
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Post by Minerva on Mar 8, 2023 11:51:07 GMT -6
I look back at my years in public school (ES and MS) and remember them as incredibly nurturing and enriching. I was a bit of an oddball nerdy girl who didn’t always fit in as a kid, but my teachers really cared about us and my school had a thriving PTA that supported them (we were a poor rural school, so not a lot of money, but the school formed the foundation of the community). Considering we were in a rural hilltown, the core group of my peers at public school was also a very tolerant and inquisitive crew. The school definitely served as a safety net for kids who were struggling with problems at home or depression/anxiety. I do think that the pandemic has a lot to do with the current situation in MS and HS. I’ve heard the same things from teachers that students are more disengaged than they were 5 years ago. These kids went through a traumatic experience that truly ripped apart the social fabric of their communities. Virtual learning definitely has an impact on so many - it was easier for kids to fall through the cracks and disengage from school without in person connections with peers and teachers. Many parents (myself included, at times) de-emphasized the importance of the routine of school during the pandemic because keeping up with the demands of virtual school was just too much for families. I know my DS needed constant support from me to be able to fully participate and realistically that couldn’t always happen. And the mental health if so many kids and adults was absolutely shredded. Anxiety and depression are a natural barrier to being able to fully engage with school. And now, at least in NOVA, schools are seriously understaffed. So many teachers left during the pandemic to attend to the fires in their own homes and to avoid being in unsafe working conditions. Classes are being taught by long term subs and teachers without any teaching background who are in the process of getting provisional licenses. At a time when students need way more support than usual, they are instead ending up with teachers without the comprehensive training and experience needed to deal with the current challenges. byjove, I think that a lot of these problems can be exacerbated at the mega-huge middle and high schools that we have in NOVA. It’s something I definitely worry about for my kids since they both have IEPs. There are so many opportunities offered for kids who are engaged and who are advanced academically, but it’s also easier for kids to fall through the cracks if they have learning differences or struggle with mental health. It takes a lot of parent involvement to liaise with the school and keep kids afloat in those situations and realistically, not all families have the time and resources to make it work. 😔 My oldest is at one of the biggest schools in the county and if this gives you any peace of mind, they take a lot of steps to keep the close tabs on kids like a smaller school can. I hear from his counselor and homeroom teacher routinely, the lines of communication are wide open with all of his teachers, and we have full visibility into the grade books so I can keep an eye on his progress as much as I want to. Even though the school itself is enormous, he says his grade level team feels small and cohesive. That is reassuring. The kids I know personally at the local giant secondary school are doing well, but there are also frequent fights and vandalism by high schoolers at the nearby strip mall after school, which sucks.
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Mar 8, 2023 12:09:40 GMT -6
I think there needs to be a lot of rethinking of how we approach school and engage students. I think we also need to talk about the way we generalize taking about public schools (again, not you, just expounding). There are 50 state education systems and 16,800 individual school districts. Christ there are 74 million students. What you hear even on friendly news stations is the most miniscule slice. Even in Florida there are teachers and schools trying to fight the tide of bullshit and make sure kids get what they need. So. 1 lousy loud negative voice drowns out all the way more positive voices.
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Post by orangebird2020 on Mar 8, 2023 12:55:46 GMT -6
I went through a phase of not caring about grades in certain classes and I was a good student. My parents very much let me know they thought grades were the most important. I also doubt they knew my school work deadlines or all the detail we have on our kids school work these days.
There were probably conversations like these, just not online, saying kids don't care, criticizing public schools, and saying no one wants to work these days.
The education world is a huge stress ball as everyone puts pressure to get back to a not great normal and improve the test grades.
It is hard to be mindful and intentional daily even when we know we need to.
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starbuck
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Post by starbuck on Mar 8, 2023 14:35:31 GMT -6
What is the non-terrible alternative to “regular public school?” Latin Catholic Montessori. I kid, I kid. ETA: I assume this is just an example of horseshoe theory, right? Gotta be.100%
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origami
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Post by origami on Mar 8, 2023 15:25:15 GMT -6
What is the non-terrible alternative to “regular public school?” Latin Catholic Montessori. I kid, I kid. ETA: I assume this is just an example of horseshoe theory, right? Gotta be. The white leftist to right wing pipeline
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cnf
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Post by cnf on Mar 8, 2023 17:08:50 GMT -6
I’m seeing a bunch of threads on Twitter about how kids aren’t as ambitious as they used to be- caring less about grades because they are asking what is the point in the state of the world they will be inheriting and also standardized tests and outdated expectations/skills, AND that Covid has lead to less engaged kids. All seemingly unrelated- anyone notice if something sparked that? This is especially of interest to me with DD1 and grades being absolutely meaningless to her and it really hasn’t occurred to us that this might be more of a generational thing. Well this is super relevant as my H and I just got finished talking to our oldest about her grades. Her issue is more in that she just doesn't turn things in. Everything that gets graded are basically all A's, but multiple missing assignments in all academic classes. It's been an ongoing thing, but ebbs and flows as to how much is missing. In our case I think they have really backed off hard deadlines so she doesn't feel that need to turn in on the due date. She did say she didn't care when she said she had turned in an assignment that was listed as incomplete and that a bit alarming. It's hard to know how or where/when to push. She's in 7th grade and our district doesn't do letter grades until the 5th/6th building so some of this still feels pretty new. I'm trying to help her understand to learn the time management piece and taling to teachers and advocating for yourself now when everyone is still learning these things vs. high school when it can have some longer term effects. It's hard to say that she's less engaged though. She does have a lot of extra curricular, by her choice, and all of her teachers talk about her class participation, adds her thoughts to discussions, etc. So it's more like she doesn't think she should need to do work outside of school if that makes sense? Which, I can't completely disagree with in a broad sense, but we also have to work in the world we actually live in as well. I'm reeling a bit from the conversation so I apologize if this is rambling and doesn't make sense. From a teachers point of view, we're having our ability to put out hard deadlines taken away. I know in my district we have to allow kids to turn in late work until the end of the quarter when grades literally get locked and we teachers can no longer change them. I gave my eighth graders a deadline on a project they were working on as this past Monday, two days ago. At least a third didn't finish, and I gave them four days in class to do it, which is more than any kid should have needed. I about lost it today, I'm so frustrated. I can't move on until they're done so they're making my life harder and dragging out this unit for other classes/kids that did finish. But when I can't enforce a deadline because they all know they have five more weeks before it actually is a problem, and I can't take away points for late assignments, they have little incentive if they aren't intrinsically motivated. I don't have a solution. I had a shitty day. I will bitch about the bullshit that is the teacher side of the spectrum all night.
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cnf
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Post by cnf on Mar 8, 2023 17:09:49 GMT -6
I had searched for something recently on Reddit and it led me to a teacher sub and now I see a lot of it in my feed. I keep trying not to click on the posts so it goes away but the headlines are always grabbing me. Anyways, granted it’s a bunch of disgruntled teachers but they pretty much all say these kids don’t want to do anything and want everything to happen in the classroom and spoon fed to them. I’d say most of the posts like this are high school and middle school teachers. It’s a bit alarming especially because I’m not there yet and I usually disregard these things as “all previous generations shit on the generations behind them”. But there might be something to it. We are not in the letter grades realm right now but my son is only moderately interested in reviewing his report cards. He also will tell you that the very minimal amount of homework he has is ruining his life which scares me for middle school. And he already says he’s not going to college when the slightest mention of doing well in school comes up. So fun times ahead! The teacher subreddit is horribly depressing. Love yourself and back away.
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cnf
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Post by cnf on Mar 8, 2023 17:11:47 GMT -6
Well as my kid’s therapist said “School is terrible for children.” (Referring to regular public school.) It’s just a training ground to churn out obedient worker bees, and stamp out nonconformity. Maybe the kids are just realizing it’s all bullshit. I mean they have eyes and ears, they saw society disintegrate during Covid. 🤷🏼♀️ Oh. Ok. Guess I train conformity. Thanks for the heads up. I'm glad you're such an expert. My Masters degree in education and I will leave you to it. Please, enlighten me about my career?
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Post by gymngemini on Mar 8, 2023 17:17:05 GMT -6
Well this is super relevant as my H and I just got finished talking to our oldest about her grades. Her issue is more in that she just doesn't turn things in. Everything that gets graded are basically all A's, but multiple missing assignments in all academic classes. It's been an ongoing thing, but ebbs and flows as to how much is missing. In our case I think they have really backed off hard deadlines so she doesn't feel that need to turn in on the due date. She did say she didn't care when she said she had turned in an assignment that was listed as incomplete and that a bit alarming. It's hard to know how or where/when to push. She's in 7th grade and our district doesn't do letter grades until the 5th/6th building so some of this still feels pretty new. I'm trying to help her understand to learn the time management piece and taling to teachers and advocating for yourself now when everyone is still learning these things vs. high school when it can have some longer term effects. It's hard to say that she's less engaged though. She does have a lot of extra curricular, by her choice, and all of her teachers talk about her class participation, adds her thoughts to discussions, etc. So it's more like she doesn't think she should need to do work outside of school if that makes sense? Which, I can't completely disagree with in a broad sense, but we also have to work in the world we actually live in as well. I'm reeling a bit from the conversation so I apologize if this is rambling and doesn't make sense. From a teachers point of view, we're having our ability to put out hard deadlines taken away. I know in my district we have to allow kids to turn in late work until the end of the quarter when grades literally get locked and we teachers can no longer change them. I gave my eighth graders a deadline on a project they were working on as this past Monday, two days ago. At least a third didn't finish, and I gave them four days in class to do it, which is more than any kid should have needed. I about lost it today, I'm so frustrated. I can't move on until they're done so they're making my life harder and dragging out this unit for other classes/kids that did finish. But when I can't enforce a deadline because they all know they have five more weeks before it actually is a problem, and I can't take away points for late assignments, they have little incentive if they aren't intrinsically motivated. I don't have a solution. I had a shitty day. I will bitch about the bullshit that is the teacher side of the spectrum all night. That sounds a lot like the rules at our district. I'm sorry you had a shitty day and I can imagine it's incredibly frustrating not being able to move forward. I appreciate what you do and how hard you work for your students. I get some of the why behind policies being less deadline heavy but imagine that puts a lot of work on teachers unfairly, especially at the end of grading periods.
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cnf
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Post by cnf on Mar 8, 2023 17:21:03 GMT -6
From a teachers point of view, we're having our ability to put out hard deadlines taken away. I know in my district we have to allow kids to turn in late work until the end of the quarter when grades literally get locked and we teachers can no longer change them. I gave my eighth graders a deadline on a project they were working on as this past Monday, two days ago. At least a third didn't finish, and I gave them four days in class to do it, which is more than any kid should have needed. I about lost it today, I'm so frustrated. I can't move on until they're done so they're making my life harder and dragging out this unit for other classes/kids that did finish. But when I can't enforce a deadline because they all know they have five more weeks before it actually is a problem, and I can't take away points for late assignments, they have little incentive if they aren't intrinsically motivated. I don't have a solution. I had a shitty day. I will bitch about the bullshit that is the teacher side of the spectrum all night. That sounds a lot like the rules at our district. I'm sorry you had a shitty day and I can imagine it's incredibly frustrating not being able to move forward. I appreciate what you do and how hard you work for your students. I get some of the why behind policies being less deadline heavy but imagine that puts a lot of work on teachers unfairly, especially at the end of grading periods. Not to mention the angry texts from parents at all hours of the day and night wanting to know why their kids grade hasn't been updated. I'm sorry, your kid turned that in six weeks late, it's at the bottom of my stack of things to grade. Be more prompt next time. Except I can't say that, because the deadline is irrelevant except for when grades are due and we have only two days to get them all in and submitted. Sometimes I spend like 8+ hours a day for multiple days trying to deal with grades. It's so much. I miss deadlines.
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cnf
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Post by cnf on Mar 8, 2023 17:23:22 GMT -6
Our grading window last quarter wasn't unlocked for submissions until 8am on Friday, the day before winter break. We had to have them done and submitted by noon on Tuesday. We had Christmas Eve, Christmas, and the day after we were asked to work on grades.
I mean, really.
It'd be funny if it weren't true.
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origami
Amethyst
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Post by origami on Mar 8, 2023 17:36:36 GMT -6
Well as my kid’s therapist said “School is terrible for children.” (Referring to regular public school.) It’s just a training ground to churn out obedient worker bees, and stamp out nonconformity. Maybe the kids are just realizing it’s all bullshit. I mean they have eyes and ears, they saw society disintegrate during Covid. 🤷🏼♀️ Oh. Ok. Guess I train conformity. Thanks for the heads up. I'm glad you're such an expert. My Masters degree in education and I will leave you to it. Please, enlighten me about my career? Truly, how dare we.
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cnf
Ruby
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Post by cnf on Mar 8, 2023 17:38:42 GMT -6
Oh. Ok. Guess I train conformity. Thanks for the heads up. I'm glad you're such an expert. My Masters degree in education and I will leave you to it. Please, enlighten me about my career? Truly, how dare we. I mean, we are socialist commies.
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origami
Amethyst
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Post by origami on Mar 8, 2023 17:54:26 GMT -6
I mean, we are socialist commies. For that one we may not be commie enough.
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Post by mrsweasley on Mar 8, 2023 18:32:36 GMT -6
I think there needs to be a lot of rethinking of how we approach school and engage students. I think we also need to talk about the way we generalize taking about public schools (again, not you, just expounding). There are 50 state education systems and 16,800 individual school districts. Christ there are 74 million students. What you hear even on friendly news stations is the most miniscule slice. Even in Florida there are teachers and schools trying to fight the tide of bullshit and make sure kids get what they need. So. I get so frustrated when people trash Common Core because there SHOULD be standards that are similar nationwide. They usually don't understand what it is either. People move all the time. Kids shouldn't suffer because of it!
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