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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 12:10:37 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 12:16:13 GMT -6
I think it’s pretty BS, frankly. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt when I read it after hearing about her getting backlash, but if she didn’t mean it how it sounds, I don’t know what the hell she meant.
So what’s her point? She felt uncomfortable but because she never dealt with it personally (and she gave nonsensical reasons for that), it’s what? Not a thing or not a thing for most people? I just don’t get what she is trying to say. And really the fact that she didn’t experience this issue probably has more to do with the fact that she left the industry during the prime vulnerable ages (even though I know it can happen at any age).
She says we have to change the culture but she gives no ideas on how that happens so it does make the reader fill in the blanks to assume she is saying the answer is to be like her and be private and modest and not care about looks.
Idk, at the least it was poorly written and at the worst it was pretty shitty to publish this at this time.
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Post by CurlieWhirlie on Oct 16, 2017 12:41:15 GMT -6
I am upset because I really want to like her, and in a way her reaction is almost like Stockholm Syndrome, it's like all of the women who are going "well I've never been raped so it must not be a thing" and aren't considering all the little microscopic ways that we are assaulted and objectified every single day. I don't know if that makes sense. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, but she's really not looking great right now.
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joelies
Sapphire
You must chill
Posts: 4,686 Likes: 33,805
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Post by joelies on Oct 16, 2017 12:50:40 GMT -6
I'm glad that she never felt the need to dress sexy. And I'm glad that she never encountered the likes of HW and his ilk. But correlation does not equal causation, and I'm pretty sure she learned that at some point while working towards her PhD. Also it's rich to see someone simultaneously claim that her looks were a professional liability and then turn around and victim blame those presenting themselves in a more conventionally attractive and sexy manner. That's not feminism, that's just shitty.
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Bluebird
Amethyst
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Post by Bluebird on Oct 16, 2017 12:51:52 GMT -6
I did not like it at all and don't know how she thinks her words were taken out of context.
"I still make choices every day as a 41-year-old actress that I think of as self-protecting and wise. I have decided that my sexual self is best reserved for private situations with those I am most intimate with. I dress modestly. I don’t act flirtatiously with men as a policy."
How is this not victim blaming?
The first time I was sexually harassed, I was 16 years old. I was dressed modestly at work and had never even spoken to the business owner before, much less "flirted." When he made me sit on his lap while he hand fed me a cookie right there in the office in front of other people, I was totally freaked out and didn't know how to make it stop. The suggestion that women in these situations are not being self-protecting or wise is so beyond infuriating.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 12:52:19 GMT -6
She was very ambiguous and her show sucks, anyway.
I look forward to her clarification, but honestly I don't put much stock in her opinions. She sounds more than a little clueless and judgmental.
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milano
Emerald
Posts: 10,914 Likes: 36,993
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Post by milano on Oct 16, 2017 12:58:09 GMT -6
I read this yesterday and I felt uncomfortable with whatever she was trying to say. Part of me was like "what is the point of her writing this?" And the other part of me felt like she was victim blaming a bit. Maybe not full-on victim blaming, but more of a "this is the price you pay when you're really pretty". I didn't like it.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,752 Likes: 94,434
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Post by jkjacq on Oct 16, 2017 13:04:02 GMT -6
Its.not.about.how.you.are.dressed.
ETA she seemed to make that point more than once.
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Oct 16, 2017 13:06:41 GMT -6
I'm glad that she never felt the need to dress sexy. And I'm glad that she never encountered the likes of HW and his ilk. But correlation does not equal causation, and I'm pretty sure she learned that at some point while working towards her PhD. Also it's rich to see someone simultaneously claim that her looks were a professional liability and then turn around and victim blame those presenting themselves in a more conventionally attractive and sexy manner. That's not feminism, that's just shitty. There's also zero way she didn't experience harrassment during her PhD. The sciences are also very much an old boys' club at the upper levels.
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Post by enchanted on Oct 16, 2017 13:08:07 GMT -6
Its.not.about.how.you.are.dressed. ETA she seemed to make that point more than once. Exactly. I was wearing jeans, a hoodie, and tennis shoes when the guy grabbed my ass. It had nothing to do with what I was wearing and everything to do with that asshole being so fucking entitled that he thought he had the right and the power to do it. I didn't even read it. She has written previous pieces about dressing modestly that basically shame anyone who doesn't dress the way she does and something about vaccines and I don't take her seriously. I want to, but I can't. But she can eat shit for victim blaming.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 13:10:09 GMT -6
I'm glad that she never felt the need to dress sexy. And I'm glad that she never encountered the likes of HW and his ilk. But correlation does not equal causation, and I'm pretty sure she learned that at some point while working towards her PhD. Also it's rich to see someone simultaneously claim that her looks were a professional liability and then turn around and victim blame those presenting themselves in a more conventionally attractive and sexy manner. That's not feminism, that's just shitty. There's also zero way she didn't experience harrassment during her PhD. The sciences are also very much an old boys' club at the upper levels. But, but, it’s because she’s the ugly duckling. 🙄 I agree that I’m not buying she hasn’t experienced harassment. Fine if she doesn’t want to talk about it. Totally fine, but then why did she write this op ed??
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 13:13:38 GMT -6
I'm not sure the reference to Jenji Kohan's current portrayal of women helps her point here. Can you explain this to a TV ignorant person? I had to look up Jenji’s work and I know the shoes but haven’t watched any of them.
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Post by daffodilsandcoffee on Oct 16, 2017 13:21:53 GMT -6
To me, it feels like her article could be summarized like this:
"So, I haven't personally experienced sexual harassment or assault because I was too ugly for anyone to want to fondle me. But I want to take this opportunity, while we are all in agreement that men are pigs who do horribly inappropriate things, to insert myself into the conversation to get us to talk about the dangers of our "looks obsessed" "sexually deviant" culture, especially in Hollywood, and how that might damage young girls. I can say this because I was ugly and felt bad about myself when I compared myself to other women in Hollywood. Then I realized that was stupid and childish and I went and got my PH.D. So, young girls, be like me. Don't worry about your looks and maybe guys will leave you alone, too!"
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Post by oreobitsy on Oct 16, 2017 13:28:04 GMT -6
"I plan to continue to work hard to encourage young women to cultivate the parts of themselves that may not garner them money and fame. If you are beautiful and sexy, terrific. But having others celebrate your physical beauty is not the way to lead a meaningful life."
This paragraph annoys me a lot.
I'm glad that people are speaking out against this column. She has the tendency to treat her various opinions as absolute facts and it has really bothered me over the years.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 13:34:11 GMT -6
"I plan to continue to work hard to encourage young women to cultivate the parts of themselves that may not garner them money and fame. If you are beautiful and sexy, terrific. But having others celebrate your physical beauty is not the way to lead a meaningful life." This paragraph annoys me a lot. I'm glad that people are speaking out against this column. She has the tendency to treat her various opinions as absolute facts and it has really bothered me over the years. It bothered me too. It’s very condescending. It reads like “pretty girls” have never considered that they are more than just that. Just because they get attention for that doesn’t mean they want or need that attention.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 13:34:34 GMT -6
It is hot, nasty garbage. ILY.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 13:45:10 GMT -6
In what way is she supposed to clarify her point today? So apparently it already happened because this tweet was from yesterday
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 13:49:43 GMT -6
From this morning:
There is no way to avoid being the victim of assault by what you wear or the way you behave," Bialik said. "I really do regret that this became what it became because literally I was trying to speak about a very specific experience I've had in a very specific industry. I was not looking to speak about assault and rape in general."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 13:50:47 GMT -6
Her response on Sunday:
On Sunday, Bialik tweeted a response thanking people for their feedback.
"I also see a bunch of people have taken my words out of the context of the Hollywood machine and twisted them to imply that God forbid I would blame a woman for her assault based on her clothing or behavior," she wrote. "Anyone who knows me and my feminism knows that's absurd and not at all what this piece was about."
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,752 Likes: 94,434
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Post by jkjacq on Oct 16, 2017 13:51:55 GMT -6
From this morning: There is no way to avoid being the victim of assault by what you wear or the way you behave," Bialik said. "I really do regret that this became what it became because literally I was trying to speak about a very specific experience I've had in a very specific industry. I was not looking to speak about assault and rape in general." Shes full of it. thats LITERALLY WHAT SHE SAID in the article. "I couldnt wear revealing clothes or get a manicure because ... they were after only one thing"
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Post by sweetc129 on Oct 16, 2017 13:53:21 GMT -6
Nope. She can shut her mouth now thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 13:54:00 GMT -6
Yeah, not impressed. She thinks she has it all figured out and her superiority is not ok.
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athn64
Ruby
Posts: 17,421 Likes: 76,763
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Post by athn64 on Oct 16, 2017 13:54:49 GMT -6
Can I get backpedalling for $1000, Alex?
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hawkward
Global Moderator
Loss, Infertility
Posts: 19,639 Likes: 123,094
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Post by hawkward on Oct 16, 2017 14:01:36 GMT -6
“Absolutely I am deeply, deeply hurt if any woman in particular who has been assaulted, or man, thinks that I was victim blaming.”
AKA “It hurt my feelings that you told me how my words were problematic instead of validating me.”
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Post by Uncaripswife on Oct 16, 2017 14:03:57 GMT -6
I wanted to be able to defend this in some way, but I can't. Excuse me while I insert myself here, but I am also not conventionally pretty and have been groped by my boss while wearing a fast food crew member uniform, reeking of french fry grease - hawt! And she implies that actresses that are conventionally pretty are only concerned with their looks, which is obnoxious. So, gtfo.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 14:09:13 GMT -6
It is hot, nasty garbage. Lol, thank you for getting to the heart of what I was thinking.
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Minerva
Ruby
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Post by Minerva on Oct 16, 2017 14:19:02 GMT -6
She at the very least skirts the edge of victim blaming. I read it yesterday and I wasn't impressed. I do think that there is value in recognizing that there are certainly female actors out there who made particular choices that allowed them to avoid or shut down sexual harassment, but hurt their Hollywood careers. They are victims of Weinstein and his ilk too. I got the impression that Balik was circling around that point, but ultimately missed it while wallowing in her moral-modesty-ugly-duckling crap. This op-ed about sexism in Hollywood was far more nuanced: Sarah Polley: The Men You Meet Making Movies www.nytimes.com/2017/10/14/opinion/sunday/harvey-weinstein-sarah-polley.html
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athn64
Ruby
Posts: 17,421 Likes: 76,763
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Post by athn64 on Oct 16, 2017 14:20:51 GMT -6
I mean, it doesn't matter what you're wearing. I got catcalled on the side of the road in Italy wearing old jeans, a bright yellow monstrosity of a t-shirt and about an inch of dirt. She definitely has some internalized misogyny going on. But it's very hurtful to the victims to tell them that wearing a certain thing will attract the unwanted attention and that they shouldn't do it.
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Post by shadesofgold on Oct 16, 2017 14:20:57 GMT -6
She has been leaning heavily on this schtick this year. I followed her on FB for like 2 months because I agreed with something she said somewhere, then didn't take long to unfollow her. She does like weekly vlogs that are just about preaching about something she personally feels strongly about, she lays on this "if you don't agree with that, that's great" bit just as a get-out-of-jail-free card, and tries to justify views that shame people - from breastfeeding to monogamy to sexual assault, apparently - as "her feminism." She regularly posted updates that seemed to be for the sole purpose of stirring shit up. I am not one to say that celebrities can't speak on politics/culture/etc, but her angle as self-styled purveyor of righteousness is obnoxious.
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Post by cheshirecat on Oct 16, 2017 14:27:37 GMT -6
Her superiority really is... something. I'm not sure why she felt the need to weigh in on this when she didn't have anything relevant to say.
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