JukEboX
Sapphire
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Post by JukEboX on Oct 11, 2017 11:12:48 GMT -6
miawallace & HilarityEnsued This conversation your having is great and making me think a lot and if my response isn't as eloquent please forgive me as I don't think I have the verbal capacity or understanding to put my thoughts into words all the time. I am a white guy, I do have white privilege; I am part of the problem. I am not going to try to justify my existence or self by saying I work with people from all background or have friends from all backgrounds. I just try and conduct myself respectfully at all times to all I come across and correct injustice when I can. I do find that white people teaching white people about their privilege is something that should be done but you have to pick your time and people to educate. I can definitely say there are people it will effect and who is a lost cause. I have tried this multiple times over the past few years with people I work with you can definitely tell who is open to change who is an old man looking to keep things the same. I will continue on nonetheless. As far as Eminem is concerned, full disclosure I have every album, I am a fan. I am not a fan of a lot of his older lyrics but he has grown A LOT as an artist and as a person. The birth of his daughter(s) has done alot of that and in his albums you can see the progression and change. When he brings an issue to the forefront I find that he gets a lot of coverage because I (And this is probably my white opinion) think he has gained the respect from both communities of whites and POC as fans. He has identified and spoken out about struggle and hardship and brought it into the household of white America. If you remember back in the late 90s and early 2000s many parents got into legal battles with him over his lyrics and his albums. His collaborations with POC artists and their support of him really put stain the fact that many white parents had white kids listening to this kind of music and bringing it into their house. I think because of this bridging he was able to form a movement back against Bush when he brought a lot of his war mongering out. I don't think he is trying to take the opportunity to raise his celebrity as part of a white privilege ploy. I think it just tends to come out that way because there are lots of fans from across the spectrum that rocketed it to the forefront. And since his base is made of millennials who listened to his music since they were kids they were able to pass that down to kids now where is music is still popular and relevant. I think many believe if an issues is big enough where Eminem weighs in that he puts time and thought into his attack lyrics then it is what people will stop and look at. As I stated before he has the power to start a movement of uprising from the young from white to POC. If his album is a scathing in November it maybe a precursor to real change. If not then it is just another Eminem album with a few good songs on it. I am optimistic. Recently I don't like these freestyle formats as they aren't polished and striking as his old music. I respect KAP for his tweet. Eminem doesn't throw support out to do it (like others with white privilege looking for the POC support). He does it because he genuinely sees it as a problem and is frustrated by not enough change happening to fix it. miawallace I really respect what you said about his past and it really made me think. I can also respect you holding a grudge and identifying things in a different view then most of us. I would just have you look at some of his newer work after the Eminem Show and beyond and see if he has changed in anyway that is significant for you. I hope I said these points as well as you did HilarityEnsued . I fear I don't put these things as clearly some times and it gets me in trouble. Feel free to correct me at any time and I will try my best to clarify.
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Post by miawallace on Oct 11, 2017 11:16:56 GMT -6
HilarityEnsued - didn't want to make a tree so I'm tagging. I do see what you are saying. I really do. My h said a lot of stuff you just mentioned this morning. He's a white dude living in America, so sometimes when I say what i say it throws him off because he's not wired like me. Which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. But I can still be critical of all of it. I'm not saying white people need to be preachy to each other or to poc. I'm just saying Eminem has a platform and he isn't saying anything new. And the left is really fast at raving whenever an ally speaks up. But no one ever pauses and thinks of how they come across to poc or black folks. He could have used that time to apologize for saying the N word, for all the things America has letnhim do and get away with simply because he's a white dude. In my dreams and all that. I just expect better. He's used the N word and this doesn't really redeem himself in my eyes. I don't hate him. I just hate the double standards the left give people just because they throw the Donald and the right shade. I'm glad he's speaking out, but I also side eye him.
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mack
Amethyst
Posts: 6,437 Likes: 49,767
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Post by mack on Oct 11, 2017 11:19:15 GMT -6
HilarityEnsued - didn't want to make a tree so I'm tagging. I do see what you are saying. I really do. My h said a lot of stuff you just mentioned this morning. He's a white dude living in America, so sometimes when I say what i say it throws him off because he's not wired like me. Which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. But I can still be critical of all of it. I'm not saying white people need to be preachy to each other or to poc. I'm just saying Eminem has a platform and he isn't saying anything new. And the left is really fast at raving whenever an ally speaks up. But no one ever pauses and thinks of how they come across to poc or black folks. He could have used that time to apologize for saying the N word, for all the things America has letnhim do and get away with simply because he's a white dude. In my dreams and all that. I just expect better. He's used the N word and this doesn't really redeem himself in my eyes. I don't hate him. I just hate the double standards the left give people just because they throw the Donald and the right shade. I'm glad he's speaking out, but I also side eye him. Like people can change. People can see the error of their ways and have their eyes opened up. But I think what you are saying is he has in now way made an effort to acknowledge that. Just even to say "hey I was an asshole, I apologize for comments I made and I see now why they were wrong" etc.
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Post by miawallace on Oct 11, 2017 11:25:58 GMT -6
HilarityEnsued - didn't want to make a tree so I'm tagging. I do see what you are saying. I really do. My h said a lot of stuff you just mentioned this morning. He's a white dude living in America, so sometimes when I say what i say it throws him off because he's not wired like me. Which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. But I can still be critical of all of it. I'm not saying white people need to be preachy to each other or to poc. I'm just saying Eminem has a platform and he isn't saying anything new. And the left is really fast at raving whenever an ally speaks up. But no one ever pauses and thinks of how they come across to poc or black folks. He could have used that time to apologize for saying the N word, for all the things America has letnhim do and get away with simply because he's a white dude. In my dreams and all that. I just expect better. He's used the N word and this doesn't really redeem himself in my eyes. I don't hate him. I just hate the double standards the left give people just because they throw the Donald and the right shade. I'm glad he's speaking out, but I also side eye him. Like people can change. People can see the error of their ways and have their eyes opened up. But I think what you are saying is he has in now way made an effort to acknowledge that. Just even to say "hey I was an asshole, I apologize for comments I made and I see now why they were wrong" etc. I can't speak for his growth because I don't know him. I can speak out on what's out there. I'm not stuck on my views. I just have a default sometimes when it comes to those things. Everyone has the benefit of growth. I'm not speaking on his character. I'm speaking about how the left is really fast to woot woot anyone and anything these days and that alone is frustrating. My default is to always pause and see these things with the color of my own life perspective. I'm a party pooper. I know it. I just can't turn it off as easily.
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mack
Amethyst
Posts: 6,437 Likes: 49,767
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Post by mack on Oct 11, 2017 11:35:38 GMT -6
Like people can change. People can see the error of their ways and have their eyes opened up. But I think what you are saying is he has in now way made an effort to acknowledge that. Just even to say "hey I was an asshole, I apologize for comments I made and I see now why they were wrong" etc. I can't speak for his growth because I don't know him. I can speak out on what's out there. I'm not stuck on my views. I just have a default sometimes when it comes to those things. Everyone has the benefit of growth. I'm not speaking on his character. I'm speaking about how the left is really fast to woot woot anyone and anything these days and that alone is frustrating. My default is to always pause and see these things with the color of my own life perspective. I'm a party pooper. I know it. I just can't turn it off as easily. I don't thin you are being a party pooper at all.
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Oct 11, 2017 11:39:00 GMT -6
Like people can change. People can see the error of their ways and have their eyes opened up. But I think what you are saying is he has in now way made an effort to acknowledge that. Just even to say "hey I was an asshole, I apologize for comments I made and I see now why they were wrong" etc. I can't speak for his growth because I don't know him. I can speak out on what's out there. I'm not stuck on my views. I just have a default sometimes when it comes to those things. Everyone has the benefit of growth. I'm not speaking on his character. I'm speaking about how the left is really fast to woot woot anyone and anything these days and that alone is frustrating. My default is to always pause and see these things with the color of my own life perspective. I'm a party pooper. I know it. I just can't turn it off as easily. I dont think you are a party pooper at all. I think you have a valuable pov that otherwise from mine could go unseen. I dont have your life experience so to hear it from you is beneficial for me and makes ME stop, think and really look at it differently.
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Post by miawallace on Oct 11, 2017 11:42:28 GMT -6
I'm just saying the left needs to take more of a pause these days. We are very quick to applaud people. Which is fine and all. But if we are trying to make a difference, I would like to see the left being more critical of our side too. We can't pick and chose which white dude gets a pass. That's all I'm saying.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 11:44:39 GMT -6
I'm glad he's speaking out, but I also side eye him. This is where I'm at.
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Post by miawallace on Oct 11, 2017 11:53:11 GMT -6
I'm just saying the left needs to take more of a pause these days. We are very quick to applaud people. Which is fine and all. But if we are trying to make a difference, I would like to see the left being more critical of our side too. We can't pick and chose which white dude gets a pass. That's all I'm saying. I'm v v v critical of the left (which is my-ish side). To be honest, a lot of the reason I cannot find myself posting here a lot is because a lot of the issues I have with the left are exemplified here, for me at least, and I don't do a good job articulating what I'm trying to say to counter many of the points made here, so I just sound like a contrary crazy person. I think a lot of people are critical of the left. And I don't think that a liberal saying a single complimentary thing to another liberal is equated to them granting them a full on get-out-of-jail-free card. Like Ellen saying "<3 Eminem" doesn't equal "I fully endorse all Eminem actions from cradle to this day". Which feels a bit like the brush that gets painted at times. It's possible to have discussions about some actions that are in contrast to other actions, and weight both of those actions differently or even equally. Yes. And I do understand what you are saying and agree that a lot of what I'm saying is personal so I don't expect people to fully agree or understand. It's okay though. Just a different perspective. Most of what I'm saying are "in my dream" scenarios. I know they won't happen or even if they do, help the cause. I'm just venting basically because I'm tired of the trump takedowns. I don't think it's helping the cause.
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Post by miawallace on Oct 11, 2017 11:56:19 GMT -6
Maybe we should have saved this for uo Tomorrow. Lol
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Post by shadesofgold on Oct 11, 2017 11:56:48 GMT -6
I just saw Twitter commentary on Eminem and came straight to HIH for context. Thanks, brux. I hear and appreciate a lot of what has been covered above. Problematic people should not earn a free pass just for blasting Trump. And also, any time a celebrity wants to stick their neck out to call him out - and maybe bring along some fans who hadn't been vocal but now would be encouraged to be - by all means, go for it. That said, I have't paid much attention to Eminem in the last decade and didn't even know he was still making music, so...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 12:06:27 GMT -6
I would like to see the left being more critical of our side too. This is sorta on-topic with something I've been seeing re: Harvey Weinstein. I'm not at all impressed with the "well at least our side didn't elect our piece of shit President" sentiment. How about we resist the kneejerk impulse to say "we're not as bad as you" and take comfort in that. Instead how about actually examine what the flying fuck was going on there, how it was enabled, how the story wasn't written earlier, how many people were complicit, etc. The deflection is fucking problematic. There are people like Rob Reiner who I am just really dismayed by.
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mack
Amethyst
Posts: 6,437 Likes: 49,767
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Post by mack on Oct 11, 2017 12:07:01 GMT -6
I knee jerk like anything negative that comes from anyone about Trump. I can't help myself.
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Post by miawallace on Oct 11, 2017 12:07:31 GMT -6
I might stand alone but I'm willing to read anything from anyone that wants to bash trump, I don't think it will ever get old to me. I hate him more than most any human in history. I hate the dude too. Loathe him. I've had dreams of cussing him out. I'm just over it I guess. White dudes getting away with stuff because they have a platform. On both sides.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 12:08:41 GMT -6
I might stand alone but I'm willing to read anything from anyone that wants to bash trump, I don't think it will ever get old to me. I hate him more than most any human in history. same. If someone is dishing it to him, I'm here for it. #petty
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Oct 11, 2017 12:12:24 GMT -6
I'm so hopped up on cold medicine and just woke up sweaty from a four hour nap. So there's that.
Eminem has been problematic to say the least in the past. I don't know why but I was convinced that long ago that his rap was performance art, intended to instigate a response from society. I am a rap fan, but I see his art somewhat like Marilyn Manson and NIN. Offensive but that's kind of the point.
Yes Kendrick Lamar and TI and many others have been out here criticizing trump and beyond.
But isn't part of the problem that there's white silence? Or white sweeping under the rug? No one wants be be a false white savior. I just don't think there's a single person out there who is going to tick all the boxes to be the perfect ally.
I shall now go back to read.
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Post by miawallace on Oct 11, 2017 12:13:47 GMT -6
Hello Politics Board! I'm Hilarity! I cry at Eminem videos, hate Trump and argue about everything! You should hang out here more. Sometimes I come here to read the tweets posted because I don't tweet. They make me laugh and make my day. Sometimes I contribute and try to give a different perspective if I'm up for it
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sterling
Global Moderator
GD
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Post by sterling on Oct 11, 2017 12:15:18 GMT -6
I would like to see the left being more critical of our side too. This is sorta on-topic with something I've been seeing re: Harvey Weinstein. I'm not at all impressed with the "well at least our side didn't elect our piece of shit President" sentiment. How about we resist the kneejerk impulse to say "we're not as bad as you" and take comfort in that. Instead how about actually examine what the flying fuck was going on there, how it was enabled, how the story wasn't written earlier, how many people were complicit, etc. The deflection is fucking problematic. There are people like Rob Reiner who I am just really dismayed by. Lord, yes. Weinstein's a piece of shit. So is Trump. I'm willing to accept equivalency in their piece of shit statuses.
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sterling
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Post by sterling on Oct 11, 2017 12:15:55 GMT -6
Hello Politics Board! I'm Hilarity! I cry at Eminem videos, hate Trump and argue about everything! Welcome. We have booze and cupcakes.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Oct 11, 2017 12:16:45 GMT -6
Hello Politics Board! I'm Hilarity! I cry at Eminem videos, hate Trump and argue about everything! Welcome. We have booze and cupcakes. and the good cold meds?
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sterling
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Post by sterling on Oct 11, 2017 12:17:17 GMT -6
Welcome. We have booze and cupcakes. and the good cold meds? Mostly the booze thing, but sure.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 12:17:51 GMT -6
But isn't part of the problem that there's white silence? Or white sweeping under the rug? No one wants be be a false white savior. I just don't think there's a single person out there who is going to tick all the boxes to be the perfect ally. I don't think there are any perfect people out there. So I'm happy to have people call Trump out. But I just don't subscribe to the enemy of my enemy is my friend necessarily. I have a capacity for many enemies. Lol.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 12:19:31 GMT -6
Also "We the People" is a much better song anyway. I listen to it to pump myself up while reading about reconciliation rules.
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Post by Uncaripswife on Oct 11, 2017 12:22:11 GMT -6
I'm glad every time someone with a public platform drags Trump. He's a monster. I loathe him.
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Post by miawallace on Oct 11, 2017 12:22:40 GMT -6
Hopefully it doesn't sound like I'm white knighting the pendejo. I hate him and love it when he gets trolled and bashed. I don't think there is a perfect ally. I'm just expressing my frustration with the influx of outspoken voices now. TO ME, It feels like too little too late on many things. Where was Eminem before the election? Or even before that? Like i said, this is personal so I view defaults to this. Like it's easy for him to say what's already being said.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Oct 11, 2017 12:23:01 GMT -6
But isn't part of the problem that there's white silence? Or white sweeping under the rug? No one wants be be a false white savior. I just don't think there's a single person out there who is going to tick all the boxes to be the perfect ally. I don't think there are any perfect people out there. So I'm happy to have people call Trump out. But I just don't subscribe to the enemy of my enemy is my friend necessarily. I have a capacity for many enemies. Lol. i like enemies. Eminem has never been an enemy of mine. So I'm sure I view him through rose colored glasses. I think he's a guy with a unique platform. He's also basically a shutin, so it's nice to see him stepping back out into the spotlight to say this shit right here is really fucked up in no uncertain terms.
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sterling
Global Moderator
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Post by sterling on Oct 11, 2017 12:27:16 GMT -6
Also "We the People" is a much better song anyway. I listen to it to pump myself up while reading about reconciliation rules. I do this, but listen to Hamilton. And don't read about reconciliation rules. So just the Hamilton part.
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sterling
Global Moderator
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Post by sterling on Oct 11, 2017 12:29:18 GMT -6
Hopefully it doesn't sound like I'm white knighting the pendejo. I hate him and love it when he gets trolled and bashed. I don't think there is a perfect ally. I'm just expressing my frustration with the influx of outspoken voices now. TO ME, It feels like too little too late on many things. Where was Eminem before the election? Or even before that? Like i said, this is personal so I view defaults to this. Like it's easy for him to say what's already being said. I really need these people to give all their money and voices to democrats in the boring, traditionally less glamorous 2018 midterms. Yes, Trump sucks. And 2018 is step one to mitigating his disaster of a human presidency.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 12:34:05 GMT -6
I don't think there are any perfect people out there. So I'm happy to have people call Trump out. But I just don't subscribe to the enemy of my enemy is my friend necessarily. I have a capacity for many enemies. Lol. i like enemies. Eminem has never been an enemy of mine. So I'm sure I view him through rose colored glasses. I think he's a guy with a unique platform. He's also basically a shutin, so it's nice to see him stepping back out into the spotlight to say this shit right here is really fucked up in no uncertain terms. I was mainly joking about the enemy thing. He's just not on my list of people I admire but that doesn't mean I won't watch him talk shit. It just doesn't wipe the slate clean IMO.
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Post by miawallace on Oct 11, 2017 12:36:15 GMT -6
Hopefully it doesn't sound like I'm white knighting the pendejo. I hate him and love it when he gets trolled and bashed. I don't think there is a perfect ally. I'm just expressing my frustration with the influx of outspoken voices now. TO ME, It feels like too little too late on many things. Where was Eminem before the election? Or even before that? Like i said, this is personal so I view defaults to this. Like it's easy for him to say what's already being said. I really need these people to give all their money and voices to democrats in the boring, traditionally less glamorous 2018 midterms. Yes, Trump sucks. And 2018 is step one to mitigating his disaster of a human presidency. I'm glad he was able to take a break to make a record and rant I guess. But I'm also like where were your rhymy Rhyme rhymes when president Obama was getting called all these racial slurs, or when his birthplace was being questioned. When he kept calling women pigs? I mean, they can easily turn if off or pause their life to make a record but many don't get that life. That's all I'm saying.
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