Insight on Race...Let's discuss

[littlechevy]

www.nbc29.com/story/35465848/albe-co-farm-owner-offers-insight-on-race-in-viral-facebook-post

@dietpepsi posted this on the other site and we never really got a chance to discuss. I'm very close to the area and I see a lot of what this guy discusses.

[littlechevy]

May 25, 2017 14:25:36 GMT -6 @dietpepsi said:

I see this everywhere really. like I said over there, I teach with a girl that has a safety pin as a key chain, marched in the march but then is the source of many microagressions.

What is the safety pin key chain?

[littlechevy]

Also, he has a good point about his area trying to make quick fixes instead of truly addressing the problem. While taking down the Lee statue and the confederate flag are good moves in the right direction, they don't truly address the problem at hand.

[blurnette989]

I live near there and agree it's pervasive everywhere. But especially places with concentrations of well off white liberals. I do agree that the statues will not solve the heart of the problem, they do force some of these conversations to the forefront. Where I am we have a number of Confederate war memorials. Nobody talks about them. NOBODY. The lack of dialogue kills me. Because with dialogue bigger issues could be reached.

But I do agree there are many more issues at play, but I'm not going to begrduge a town taking down these kinds of statues, as long as they aren't also wiping there hands and patting themselves on the back like they just solved race relations in America.

[blurnette989]

May 25, 2017 14:30:25 GMT -6 littlechevy said:

May 25, 2017 14:25:36 GMT -6 @dietpepsi said:

I see this everywhere really. like I said over there, I teach with a girl that has a safety pin as a key chain, marched in the march but then is the source of many microagressions.

What is the safety pin key chain?

It's a symbol started in England in light of anti Muslim rhetoric and violence to indicate a person is "safe". It was adopted by a number of white people after the election to indicate that the person was safe for minorities or immigrants. However, there was a lot of discussion of what that really meant and if it was just a performative symbol to make white people feel better about themselves and assure their own guilt.

Fwiw, I also have a safety pin tattooed to my forearm. For me it's a reminder to always stand up for the disenfranchised.

[Uncaripswife]

This is what I said in the other thread:

I'm struggling to say what I feel about this. I've never been to Charlottesville but I take him at his word that he has experienced racial profiling and segregation there. Frankly, I assume that every POC in the US has experienced that in most (if not all) communities. I have no clue how to solve this problem. I try to be self aware - but I'm sure I'm failing at least part of the time. I know I benefit every day from white privilege. I recognize that racism pervades every social structure in this country and want to root it out. But even my post here is a lot of "me me me" and that seems utterly unhelpful.

[CurlieWhirlie]

Ok so the part about "nervous white women in yoga pants" got me thinking, because on the one hand I believe what he is saying is true a lot of the time, but on the other hand I personally am a white woman and I am often hyper-aware and nervous when I am alone and pass ANY man. I do think there's an element of racial profiling in there somewhere, for me, and I try to really examine it when I notice it, but it's the STRANGE MAN thing that makes me wary. What do you ladies think, does anyone know what I'm talking about?

For the record, I have never called the police on a stranger in my neighborhood, so that's a whole different level of nervousness than what I am describing for myself.

ETA: Someone in the comments brought up Boston as an example of cities like this, and I have to agree -- I moved there for grad school and was SHOCKED at how segregated and barely-beneath-the-surface racist that place is. It's a bastion of progressive politics and liberal universities! 

[daffodilsandcoffee]

CurlieWhirlie The white woman in yoga pants part stood out to me, too. I can see a few different angles to this.

1. "Strange man alert!" I get, because women have to be aware of our surroundings for our safety. I guess it speaks to the level of segregation and institutionalized racicism that more often than not, the black man is the one who sticks out as "strange."


2. There is also probably a lot of racial profiling going on when the police respond to the "scared white woman in yoga pants." We need to protect her, they think, instead of "what is she doing out so late?" They also are probably more apt to respond aggressively when the woman calls about a strange black man, as opposed to the simple drive by policing they might do about a "strange white man".

Overall, I think white women, myself included, need to stop automatically acting on and trusting that gut instinct. Sometimes it means asking ourselves, " why does that guy/person/whatever activate my spidey senses?" Before we react.

[CurlieWhirlie]

May 25, 2017 17:26:14 GMT -6 daffodilsandcoffee said:

CurlieWhirlie The white woman in yoga pants part stood out to me, too. I can see a few different angles to this.

1. "Strange man alert!" I get, because women have to be aware of our surroundings for our safety. I guess it speaks to the level of segregation and institutionalized racicism that more often than not, the black man is the one who sticks out as "strange."


2. There is also probably a lot of racial profiling going on when the police respond to the "scared white woman in yoga pants." We need to protect her, they think, instead of "what is she doing out so late?" They also are probably more apt to respond aggressively when the woman calls about a strange black man, as opposed to the simple drive by policing they might do about a "strange white man".

Overall, I think white women, myself included, need to stop automatically acting on and trusting that gut instinct. Sometimes it means asking ourselves, " why does that guy/person/whatever activate my spidey senses?" Before we react.

Yes, we are on the same page. You said it better than I did.

[ktg]

🍍 🍊 Fineapple 🍍 🍊 I'm often torn between wanting to know what WOC think of something, but then not wanting to once again be asking to be taught how to not be insufferable.

I can't speak for this particular thread but this happens a lot as I try to shut up and listen and learn.

[ktg]

May 27, 2017 11:46:08 GMT -6 🍍 🍊 Fineapple 🍍 🍊 said:

May 27, 2017 11:32:06 GMT -6 ktg said:

🍍 🍊 Fineapple 🍍 🍊 I'm often torn between wanting to know what WOC think of something, but then not wanting to once again be asking to be taught how to not be insufferable.

I can't speak for this particular thread but this happens a lot as I try to shut up and listen and learn.

I'm understand this POV how do you listen? Who are you listening to? The majority of posters here aren't POC unless I'm mistaken.

Listen to the POC already sharing in the article/blog/interview. Not seeking out a personal lesson for myself.

[Uncaripswife]

May 27, 2017 11:17:47 GMT -6 🍍 🍊 Fineapple 🍍 🍊 said:

I'm curious why this wasn't cross posted on the POC board?

I can only speak for myself. I would be hesitant to post on the POC board uninvited. I feel like that space belongs to the POC members of this community and I don't want to bust in there like a bull or the kool aid man. Also, like mentioned up thread, I don't want to be like "teach me, fix my ignorance" because that isn't the responsibility of anyone on that board. On the other hand, I would welcome hearing from POC on this.

[lupineaura]

I hadn't seen this; thanks for sharing.

[CurlieWhirlie]

I understand the worry about being perceived as "busting in" or as white women expecting to be taught, maybe an agreed-upon strategy for cross-posting between politics and POC would work? There is a lot of overlap.

[sterling]

May 28, 2017 11:18:58 GMT -6 🍍 🍊 Fineapple 🍍 🍊 said:

The POC board 7/10 of us are cool with it.

Maybe we just do a quick post over there to ask if anyone is interested in joining the convo, check the link here type of thing? That way we aren't having two threads, nor busting in on the POC board? 

[sterling]

Also before TCF imploded I posted a great article on including POC in urban planning and how that never happens and the catastrophic affects that brings. I'll need to dig it back up.

[sterling]

www.theroot.com/urban-planning-can-t-happen-without-black-people-in-the-1795260130

[Uncaripswife]

May 28, 2017 11:35:43 GMT -6 sterling said:

www.theroot.com/urban-planning-can-t-happen-without-black-people-in-the-1795260130

Should we cross post this one with the POC board?

[Minerva]

May 28, 2017 13:36:20 GMT -6 Uncaripswife said:

May 28, 2017 11:35:43 GMT -6 sterling said:

www.theroot.com/urban-planning-can-t-happen-without-black-people-in-the-1795260130

Should we cross post this one with the POC board?

I would be interested in discussing this with both boards.

[marshian]

Sorry, finally got this site working correctly so catching up on posts. Totally agree with PPs about symbols and words not being enough. As a white woman who truly wants to address the bigger issues of racism, bias, segregation, etc, what can I do which is meaningful? Seriously asking. Things I do and/or plan to do in the future:
1. Truly listen to POC. In person, through books, articles, online, etc and try my hardest to set aside my bias and privilege and understand what they're saying.
2. Not just listen but seek out opportunities to hear from POC on their lives.
3. Support changes in legislation at all levels (local, state, national) which works to end institutional racism and segregation and move toward equality by contacting my legislators and government officials, showing up to rallies/marches in person.
4. Expose my family (especially my children) to the real world in terms of racism and bias, etc, and include them in actions I take.
5. Stand up and speak up whenever anyone makes racist comments in any context. My family, friends, and coworkers already know I won't listen to any of it, even if it's a "joke". (Same for sexist remarks and anything else discriminatory.)

What else should I be doing? Open to all suggestions!

[CurlieWhirlie]

So, should we cross-post this thread on the POC board? Or start a new thread?

[CurlieWhirlie]

May 30, 2017 13:55:18 GMT -6 🍍 🍊 Fineapple 🍍 🍊 said:

May 30, 2017 13:32:45 GMT -6 CurlieWhirlie said:

So, should we cross-post this thread on the POC board? Or start a new thread?

aplacetomeet.freeforums.net/thread/817/talk-insight-on-race?page=1#post-41038

Thank you! 

[ceci]

May 25, 2017 17:00:51 GMT -6 CurlieWhirlie said:

Ok so the part about "nervous white women in yoga pants" got me thinking, because on the one hand I believe what he is saying is true a lot of the time, but on the other hand I personally am a white woman and I am often hyper-aware and nervous when I am alone and pass ANY man. I do think there's an element of racial profiling in there somewhere, for me, and I try to really examine it when I notice it, but it's the STRANGE MAN thing that makes me wary. What do you ladies think, does anyone know what I'm talking about?

For the record, I have never called the police on a stranger in my neighborhood, so that's a whole different level of nervousness than what I am describing for myself.

ETA: Someone in the comments brought up Boston as an example of cities like this, and I have to agree -- I moved there for grad school and was SHOCKED at how segregated and barely-beneath-the-surface racist that place is. It's a bastion of progressive politics and liberal universities! 

Bostonian here.... this is long, sorry. 

Yes, Boston is unbelievably segregated. People of color tend to be sectioned off in a select few neighborhoods. You could go downtown and see only a handful of black folks- who happen to all be in some type of service capacity. It's frustrating. I had a very heated discussion with some high school friends about Michael Che's recent comments. They really had the audacity to argue me that Boston isn't the most racist city. I mean #1, when did there become a rating scale? Most racist versus 29th racist, who the fuck cares. It's racist. #2, when the hell did white people become the authority on deciding what is and what is not racist? I couldn't even finish the discussion because, REALLY? Ultimate hubris. 

The whole bastion of progressive politics and liberal universities......the universities tend to be filled with a whole lotta people who are NOT Bostonians. Many don't stay after they graduate. Or they stay and then live in the seaport district or one of the newly gentrified neighborhoods. So, the inner city communities never see them and they don't see the folks in the community. The political slant..... I hear alot of white folks THINKING that they are progressive. Most of the time it just comes off as patronizing, to be honest with you. Like, "oh we know what's best for you". I used to do infant home care and the other therapists would think of themselves as non-racist and progressive, but it was clear that they viewed everything through a lens of white-ness. The comparison was always in a way that held their standard as the standard to be reached. That is so insulting. 

I work in a predominantly black school, in the hood. There are some white teachers who get it, there are some who are at least trying to get it..... there are some who have no fucking business teaching black children. They would tell you, they are not racist. They are super friendly and caring to me as a colleague. But you should hear the way they speak regarding students: "They act like animals", "These kids are crazy", "These kids don't know how to behave", "You know his mother has 5 other kids?", "His Dad's in jail, you know?" And don't let us go to an event after school, "Can someone walk me to my car, I don't feel safe here", "Is it in a safe area?" 

OMG, earlier this month we went out after work for teacher's appreciation. To a local hood bar. A teacher asked for an escort to her car. That night, two doctors had their throats slashed.....in her neighborhood. Giiiirl, you safer in the hood!

I feel that in the North, there is the feeling of superiority or absolution among some white people, because they are not outwardly calling people names or saying, "what you doin here boy?" But when you say "THESE KIDS" (I fucking hate that), "those people", "that's not supposed to happen in this kind of neighborhood" (Oh sweet baby Jesus, this is the worst)- that's a creation of separation. That's because you really don't see people of color as your equal. You might not want to own us anymore, but you are quite comfortable with you being over here and us being over there. You still see your position and station in life as the standard. Have you ever heard the phrase "Majority Minority"? As in, by the year 20xx, the United States will be majority minority? Come on now. Let's not do that.

So what I have to do know, is call these folks out when I hear this shit. That's my promise to you and to the children and families that I serve. I need to demand that we all talk about families with respect. When I hear the white American perspective purported as the default and to be aspired to, I will push back. It doesn't matter if it's done blindly or with malice. The residual feeling is the same. That person doesn't value me as equal to them. I am equal. Everybody who looks like me is equal. 

I rambled. I'm sorry. Thanks for reading.

[Uncaripswife]

May 31, 2017 12:17:02 GMT -6 ceci said:

May 25, 2017 17:00:51 GMT -6 CurlieWhirlie said:

Ok so the part about "nervous white women in yoga pants" got me thinking, because on the one hand I believe what he is saying is true a lot of the time, but on the other hand I personally am a white woman and I am often hyper-aware and nervous when I am alone and pass ANY man. I do think there's an element of racial profiling in there somewhere, for me, and I try to really examine it when I notice it, but it's the STRANGE MAN thing that makes me wary. What do you ladies think, does anyone know what I'm talking about?

For the record, I have never called the police on a stranger in my neighborhood, so that's a whole different level of nervousness than what I am describing for myself.

ETA: Someone in the comments brought up Boston as an example of cities like this, and I have to agree -- I moved there for grad school and was SHOCKED at how segregated and barely-beneath-the-surface racist that place is. It's a bastion of progressive politics and liberal universities! 

Bostonian here.... this is long, sorry. 

Yes, Boston is unbelievably segregated. People of color tend to be sectioned off in a select few neighborhoods. You could go downtown and see only a handful of black folks- who happen to all be in some type of service capacity. It's frustrating. I had a very heated discussion with some high school friends about Michael Che's recent comments. They really had the audacity to argue me that Boston isn't the most racist city. I mean #1, when did there become a rating scale? Most racist versus 29th racist, who the fuck cares. It's racist. #2, when the hell did white people become the authority on deciding what is and what is not racist? I couldn't even finish the discussion because, REALLY? Ultimate hubris. 

The whole bastion of progressive politics and liberal universities......the universities tend to be filled with a whole lotta people who are NOT Bostonians. Many don't stay after they graduate. Or they stay and then live in the seaport district or one of the newly gentrified neighborhoods. So, the inner city communities never see them and they don't see the folks in the community. The political slant..... I hear alot of white folks THINKING that they are progressive. Most of the time it just comes off as patronizing, to be honest with you. Like, "oh we know what's best for you". I used to do infant home care and the other therapists would think of themselves as non-racist and progressive, but it was clear that they viewed everything through a lens of white-ness. The comparison was always in a way that held their standard as the standard to be reached. That is so insulting. 

I work in a predominantly black school, in the hood. There are some white teachers who get it, there are some who are at least trying to get it..... there are some who have no fucking business teaching black children. They would tell you, they are not racist. They are super friendly and caring to me as a colleague. But you should hear the way they speak regarding students: "They act like animals", "These kids are crazy", "These kids don't know how to behave", "You know his mother has 5 other kids?", "His Dad's in jail, you know?" And don't let us go to an event after school, "Can someone walk me to my car, I don't feel safe here", "Is it in a safe area?" 

OMG, earlier this month we went out after work for teacher's appreciation. To a local hood bar. A teacher asked for an escort to her car. That night, two doctors had their throats slashed.....in her neighborhood. Giiiirl, you safer in the hood!

I feel that in the North, there is the feeling of superiority or absolution among some white people, because they are not outwardly calling people names or saying, "what you doin here boy?" But when you say "THESE KIDS" (I fucking hate that), "those people", "that's not supposed to happen in this kind of neighborhood" (Oh sweet baby Jesus, this is the worst)- that's a creation of separation. That's because you really don't see people of color as your equal. You might not want to own us anymore, but you are quite comfortable with you being over here and us being over there. You still see your position and station in life as the standard. Have you ever heard the phrase "Majority Minority"? As in, by the year 20xx, the United States will be majority minority? Come on now. Let's not do that.

So what I have to do know, is call these folks out when I hear this shit. That's my promise to you and to the children and families that I serve. I need to demand that we all talk about families with respect. When I hear the white American perspective purported as the default and to be aspired to, I will push back. It doesn't matter if it's done blindly or with malice. The residual feeling is the same. That person doesn't value me as equal to them. I am equal. Everybody who looks like me is equal. 

I rambled. I'm sorry. Thanks for reading.

I lived in Boston for many years (both in the city and in suburbs) and I would agree with what you wrote above. Boston is a segregated city.

[adelbert]

I really appreciate what you wrote ceci.

[daometjing]

Thanks for sharing ceci.

I've been having issues with white liberal racism lately. It's always people who denounce conservatives as racist, but never see it in themselves. I think I most commonly see it when I talk about moving. Then people start in with the micro aggressions, and coded language about "good" schools and "good" neighborhoods. They would deny it, but it sure seems like good = white to them.

[athn64]

Someone shared this on my FB. I feel like it needs to go here
www.theroot.com/the-crime-this-time-partying-while-black-and-successfu-1795817170

[joelies]

Jun 7, 2017 13:12:12 GMT -6 athn64 said:

Someone shared this on my FB. I feel like it needs to go here
www.theroot.com/the-crime-this-time-partying-while-black-and-successfu-1795817170

I'm having a hard time coming up with a worthy response. All I can think of is that this should be required reading for everyone who thinks wealth or fame somehow shields people from racism. Or you know, that racism isn't a thing anymore.