jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Jun 12, 2021 7:50:35 GMT -6
dc2london I’m just catching up here but so sorry about the water leak and mold. I also have a house where we frequently curse the prior owners and get to spend lots of money on repairs that shouldn’t be as bad as they are. Like this week when we had our attic cleaned and reinsulated and the people acted like it was the worst they had ever seen.
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Post by greykitty on Jun 12, 2021 9:55:35 GMT -6
Just curious - conversation on Facebook in my local area about Electric Vehicle ready vs EV capable in new construction, and costs to retrofit in remodeling, etc etc.
For those shopping for housing right now where personal vehicles are a necessity, are you looking for chargers already installed, or how much it would cost to retrofit? And are people setting up reserves to pay for installing chargers in their current housing?
I'm putting aside some money toward this, but don't really know all the nuts and bolts about how it will work in my situation. Then again, I'm driving a 2001 gas engine compact sedan that always passes emission testing, but one of these days will have to get something new and have to figure out what I'll buy.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jun 12, 2021 10:15:19 GMT -6
The coach for the opposing team in my kid’s baseball game today looks like Ted Cruz and I’m suppressing violent thoughts. I’m sure he’s a nice guy.
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mc13
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Post by mc13 on Jun 12, 2021 13:22:08 GMT -6
Just curious - conversation on Facebook in my local area about Electric Vehicle ready vs EV capable in new construction, and costs to retrofit in remodeling, etc etc. For those shopping for housing right now where personal vehicles are a necessity, are you looking for chargers already installed, or how much it would cost to retrofit? And are people setting up reserves to pay for installing chargers in their current housing? I'm putting aside some money toward this, but don't really know all the nuts and bolts about how it will work in my situation. Then again, I'm driving a 2001 gas engine compact sedan that always passes emission testing, but one of these days will have to get something new and have to figure out what I'll buy. We built last summer and had an outlet for future car charger put in the garage. It was not a deal breaker on any of the existing homes to not have one but if I were going to buy a house built in 2020 or later, I’d expect it.
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Post by blurnette989 on Jun 12, 2021 15:54:40 GMT -6
Just curious - conversation on Facebook in my local area about Electric Vehicle ready vs EV capable in new construction, and costs to retrofit in remodeling, etc etc. For those shopping for housing right now where personal vehicles are a necessity, are you looking for chargers already installed, or how much it would cost to retrofit? And are people setting up reserves to pay for installing chargers in their current housing? I'm putting aside some money toward this, but don't really know all the nuts and bolts about how it will work in my situation. Then again, I'm driving a 2001 gas engine compact sedan that always passes emission testing, but one of these days will have to get something new and have to figure out what I'll buy. We built last summer and had an outlet for future car charger put in the garage. It was not a deal breaker on any of the existing homes to not have one but if I were going to buy a house built in 2020 or later, I’d expect it. in Portugal houses built since 2017 are required to have an outlet capable of charging an EV. Apartment buildings must have a certain number per apartments.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Jun 12, 2021 16:25:07 GMT -6
greykitty when we got our EV we had to get an electrician to put in the correct outlet for charging. It was about $500-$700 I think and I’m thrilled with it. I hardly ever pay for charging outside my house as I can just charge at home. And we have solar panels so our energy is very low cost to us. It was annoying at the time to add the outlet but so worth it. And in my neighborhood there are at least 2 EVs every block so it’s a good feature. If we were house hunting now we’d be happy to see a house with it, hit it wouldn’t be a deal breaker or top of our list of features. We would just pay to install one after close. ETA: it’s a 240 v outlet
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Ls2012
Amethyst
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Post by Ls2012 on Jun 12, 2021 17:11:30 GMT -6
greykitty when we got our EV we had to get an electrician to put in the correct outlet for charging. It was about $500-$700 I think and I’m thrilled with it. I hardly ever pay for charging outside my house as I can just charge at home. And we have solar panels so our energy is very low cost to us. It was annoying at the time to add the outlet but so worth it. And in my neighborhood there are at least 2 EVs every block so it’s a good feature. If we were house hunting now we’d be happy to see a house with it, hit it wouldn’t be a deal breaker or top of our list of features. We would just pay to install one after close. ETA: it’s a 240 v outlet Dh and I have talked about getting ev's for awhile (more, recently). His big hang-up that I can't seem to get him past, is the event of a natural disaster. Like, the power is out and we need to leave immediately but can't because there's not enough of a charge on a vehicle. I don't know how to talk him back from that because we don't have solar panels. Hang-up #2 is that there really aren't many charging stations near us or en route to anyone we would drive to. It's frustrating.
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Jun 12, 2021 17:26:47 GMT -6
problem with electric vehicles is we live in a pretty big state, and when we can we drive mostly across it to visit family on the ends of the state, north and south. unless there is a place to charge when we get there, 250 miles of an average charge won't get us there and back. and lots of rural towns without much charging stations. If it's a pay to charge, what's an averge "fill up" cost?
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Jun 12, 2021 17:41:31 GMT -6
greykitty when we got our EV we had to get an electrician to put in the correct outlet for charging. It was about $500-$700 I think and I’m thrilled with it. I hardly ever pay for charging outside my house as I can just charge at home. And we have solar panels so our energy is very low cost to us. It was annoying at the time to add the outlet but so worth it. And in my neighborhood there are at least 2 EVs every block so it’s a good feature. If we were house hunting now we’d be happy to see a house with it, hit it wouldn’t be a deal breaker or top of our list of features. We would just pay to install one after close. ETA: it’s a 240 v outlet Dh and I have talked about getting ev's for awhile (more, recently). His big hang-up that I can't seem to get him past, is the event of a natural disaster. Like, the power is out and we need to leave immediately but can't because there's not enough of a charge on a vehicle. I don't know how to talk him back from that because we don't have solar panels. Hang-up #2 is that there really aren't many charging stations near us or en route to anyone we would drive to. It's frustrating. So it might just be a timing thing for him. There are portable chargers on the market for this scenario - triple A has them for example. But the price point doesn’t make it feasible for a individual consumer right now and the size of one that can do more than charge you for a lift are prohibitive. But like all things energy I would except that will change over time. Battery packs get smaller with additional development and innovation is happening. We do have a second gas car. Just because that’s what we had and it is paid for. I’m not sure if we would go all electric but we might when our gas car dies or we might go back to one car as the pandemic has made it so we drive our EV 98% of the time. We’ve done one longer drive in ours and did have to stop for charging. We made a plan for where to stop and we used a quick charger so it filled up in 25 minutes while we were eating/shopping. It’s definitely more work to plan, but not that much more than a regular road trip. We’ve also opted for our gas car on a couple of 6 hour trips that we didn’t want to bother stopping because due to the time of the day we weren’t going to be eating. So it is a thing but a manageable thing. For us, it’s about the cost of a gas fill up when gas prices are average (which is $3.25-$3.75 in CA) to charge at a fast charger. I’m ok doing that every once in awhile because the rest of my charging is at home. But I would not want to pay that every time.
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Post by blurnette989 on Jun 12, 2021 22:28:48 GMT -6
jaygee you have to pay to charge your EV?
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Post by sherminator on Jun 13, 2021 4:25:51 GMT -6
Someone put a Trump sticker on my car yesterday. At work. As a joke , as Im widely known for my views. Very lightly, easily removable. Still, I was greatly annoyed... what if I hadnt seen it and was driving around like an asshole for a few days?
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Post by blurnette989 on Jun 13, 2021 5:07:12 GMT -6
Someone put a Trump sticker on my car yesterday. At work. As a joke , as Im widely known for my views. Very lightly, easily removable. Still, I was greatly annoyed... what if I hadnt seen it and was driving around like an asshole for a few days? Yeah not funny. Like when MH's uncle donated a large sum of money to the Republican party of Virginia in our name as a "wedding present". It was a large enough sum we got a personalized letter from the president of the VA GOP party at the time. He thought it was hilarious.
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Post by greykitty on Jun 13, 2021 7:26:07 GMT -6
jaygee, AmyG, mc13, Ls2012, thanks for your comments. Similar thoughts came up on the local discussion site, and they're all thoughts I've had myself. I can see home builders, and home buyers, still feeling out the transition phase and what's needed and what's just 'nice to have'. I can see the concerns about the extra costs, and I don't know if all first or second time homebuyers always prioritize costs like EV chargers. People don't always check out the bones of a house thoroughly, which is understandable. I've learned the hard way to get real excited about things like window quality and updated plumbing, for example. Didn't hit the top of my list first time around. I'd like to see EV capable, at least, in new homes. I'm putting aside money to retrofit my garage down the road. I've also wondered about limited range during extreme weather. It can get very cold, or very hot, in my area. I'm sure the technology will improve by leaps and bounds, and I hope the infrastructure can be implemented to encourage more people buying, with easy access and quick charging; even 25 minutes can be a long time. I only have one car - if I had two I'd be more bullish on investing in EV only immediately. I do wonder how everything will work for people who keep vehicles parked on city streets or don't have garage space for all their cars. My suburb has a few chargers at a couple of parks and downtown, but definitely not throughout every parking area. The whole Ford F-150 Lightning investment would seem to me to indicate EV's will be more mainstream reasonably quickly. But I worry about getting 'stuck' too.
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leahcar
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Post by leahcar on Jun 13, 2021 7:31:41 GMT -6
jaygee how much more electricity do you use now? We are considering giving our teenagers our current “commuter car” and buying ourselves an EV. We actually have a 240v outlet in our garage; MH’s welder uses it. He welds only a few times a year though so sharing the outlet should be NBD.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Jun 13, 2021 7:41:06 GMT -6
jaygee you have to pay to charge your EV? Public charging stations have a fee. I think in the early days there were free options and Tesla chargers used to be free 😭 (I missed out on that). But no longer. Like there are charging stations at my work but they cost. There are various companies and the prices range. The perk is you get the parking included so in certain situations where parking is tough it is helpful. But the etiquette is to only stay while you are actively charging at some so it’s not like all day parking. I mean I get it - they have to set up the infrastructure etc and they pass that along to consumers. But also one of my main motivations was to save money on gas so I really go out of my way to never pay for charging. I’m lucky because I can charge at home but if I couldn’t it probably would have swayed me away from getting an EV to be honest. I know a lot of new construction housing here requires EV charging. What I don’t know is if the apartment complexes offer free charging as part of rent. We had charging in our last apartment complex as it was brand new but I didn’t have an EV so I don’t know if it cost.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Jun 13, 2021 7:44:05 GMT -6
jaygee how much more electricity do you use now? We are considering giving our teenagers our current “commuter car” and buying ourselves an EV. We actually have a 240v outlet in our garage; MH’s welder uses it. He welds only a few times a year though so sharing the outlet should be NBD. Let me ask H about that to see if he has an estimate. We did the solar panels prior to getting the EV and I know we planned for it in the solar panels. So they took our current energy usage and then tacked some on for our future car.
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Post by enchanted on Jun 13, 2021 7:49:09 GMT -6
sherminator That's not a joke. That's being an ass. Even if they had put a sticker for someone you liked, it's still not cool to mess with someone's property that way.
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Post by blurnette989 on Jun 13, 2021 8:39:20 GMT -6
jaygee you have to pay to charge your EV? Public charging stations have a fee. I think in the early days there were free options and Tesla chargers used to be free 😭 (I missed out on that). But no longer. Like there are charging stations at my work but they cost. There are various companies and the prices range. The perk is you get the parking included so in certain situations where parking is tough it is helpful. But the etiquette is to only stay while you are actively charging at some so it’s not like all day parking. I mean I get it - they have to set up the infrastructure etc and they pass that along to consumers. But also one of my main motivations was to save money on gas so I really go out of my way to never pay for charging. I’m lucky because I can charge at home but if I couldn’t it probably would have swayed me away from getting an EV to be honest. I know a lot of new construction housing here requires EV charging. What I don’t know is if the apartment complexes offer free charging as part of rent. We had charging in our last apartment complex as it was brand new but I didn’t have an EV so I don’t know if it cost. I guess i figured it wouldn't be free wvwrywhere- but that yes the government would step in and provide free charging. Like they don't have to pass it on the consumers. That's an American mentality. My grocery store has four free spots for wv charging. Encourages more people to shop there. The next town over of 15,000 has 6 free apots. The government is currently setting up fast charging stations at all rest stops. Like if a government wants to encourage people to change behaviors, yes they actually do have to invest. Shit lady, the campground i just stayed at in a national park had a regular and a Tesla ev charging station and I saw someone using the Tesla one.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jun 13, 2021 9:45:06 GMT -6
Public charging stations have a fee. I think in the early days there were free options and Tesla chargers used to be free 😭 (I missed out on that). But no longer. Like there are charging stations at my work but they cost. There are various companies and the prices range. The perk is you get the parking included so in certain situations where parking is tough it is helpful. But the etiquette is to only stay while you are actively charging at some so it’s not like all day parking. I mean I get it - they have to set up the infrastructure etc and they pass that along to consumers. But also one of my main motivations was to save money on gas so I really go out of my way to never pay for charging. I’m lucky because I can charge at home but if I couldn’t it probably would have swayed me away from getting an EV to be honest. I know a lot of new construction housing here requires EV charging. What I don’t know is if the apartment complexes offer free charging as part of rent. We had charging in our last apartment complex as it was brand new but I didn’t have an EV so I don’t know if it cost. I guess i figured it wouldn't be free wvwrywhere- but that yes the government would step in and provide free charging. Like they don't have to pass it on the consumers. That's an American mentality. My grocery store has four free spots for wv charging. Encourages more people to shop there. The next town over of 15,000 has 6 free apots. The government is currently setting up fast charging stations at all rest stops. Like if a government wants to encourage people to change behaviors, yes they actually do have to invest. Shit lady, the campground i just stayed at in a national park had a regular and a Tesla ev charging station and I saw someone using the Tesla one. Yup. Very American mentality around it. There are some government incentives but I would argue they aren’t as accessible as they should/could be. Federal tax credits upon purchase. I leased so I don’t get that. My county has a program and I think we got around $800 back from that - which is great. There are also some commuter benefits here like access to the HOV lanes even when driving solo. But EVs are popular enough here that they now only allow the sticker for certain vehicles and you only get one 3 year sticker for the life of your car. Which is annoying. EV only parking is popping up a lot of places. I have to admit I like that for a crowded mall situation. Before I had an EV I assumed the charging was free. I was pretty surprised to find out it wasn’t. But, yeah, there is little to no encouragement to take EVs to the masses here. Which is a bummer.
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adelbert
Amethyst
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Post by adelbert on Jun 13, 2021 9:46:23 GMT -6
Public charging stations have a fee. I think in the early days there were free options and Tesla chargers used to be free 😭 (I missed out on that). But no longer. Like there are charging stations at my work but they cost. There are various companies and the prices range. The perk is you get the parking included so in certain situations where parking is tough it is helpful. But the etiquette is to only stay while you are actively charging at some so it’s not like all day parking. I mean I get it - they have to set up the infrastructure etc and they pass that along to consumers. But also one of my main motivations was to save money on gas so I really go out of my way to never pay for charging. I’m lucky because I can charge at home but if I couldn’t it probably would have swayed me away from getting an EV to be honest. I know a lot of new construction housing here requires EV charging. What I don’t know is if the apartment complexes offer free charging as part of rent. We had charging in our last apartment complex as it was brand new but I didn’t have an EV so I don’t know if it cost. I guess i figured it wouldn't be free wvwrywhere- but that yes the government would step in and provide free charging. Like they don't have to pass it on the consumers. That's an American mentality. My grocery store has four free spots for wv charging. Encourages more people to shop there. The next town over of 15,000 has 6 free apots. The government is currently setting up fast charging stations at all rest stops. Like if a government wants to encourage people to change behaviors, yes they actually do have to invest. Shit lady, the campground i just stayed at in a national park had a regular and a Tesla ev charging station and I saw someone using the Tesla one. What a neat thing that Portugal offers that! Germany is pushing electric cars like crazy but you still have to pay to charge them at public places. Depending on where you charge them you'll be paying similar to local electricity prices or up to double that. But of course you'll still be paying way less than you pay for diesel or gas here.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Jun 13, 2021 9:46:24 GMT -6
I should add that I know EVs are not problem free with regards to the environment and not the end all be all. But as of right now they are the most accessible option for an individual consumer to go gas free so I do think they should be encouraged.
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origami
Amethyst
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Post by origami on Jun 13, 2021 10:16:30 GMT -6
I'm glad to see this discussion as im curious about EV infrastructure. I got a hybrid a couple months ago and love it as I am saving on gas by only filling once a month and just recently realized the parking perks in a lot of places include hybrid vehicles.
I hope in the next decade or so EVs have longer range and are more ubiquitous. Then I'd be happy to switch. Except we have no garage and no easy electric access from our driveway.
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Jun 13, 2021 11:15:01 GMT -6
How they make the batteries for ev has to change. The chinese do a lot of damage to their country to dig up the lithium and other metals needed to get these things. I think eventually we will run out of those rare earth metals.
Then we burn a lot of fossil fuels to move those metals around to make the batteries and get the batteries to the car manufacturers.
And of course the batteries are charged by electricity and most of our electricity in tge us comes from fossil fuels.
If all gas burning cars are replaced with ev, we still will cause a carbon footprint from the increased need for electricity in the power grid and burn even more fossil fuels.
We have to invent a better battery, because solar power is also stored in those type of batteries.
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adelbert
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Post by adelbert on Jun 13, 2021 12:01:59 GMT -6
I totally agree AmyG. I think the push has to be an overall reduction of consumption *and* improving the technology. But I think no matter what vehicles powered by fossil fuels are dying out (and most manufacturers have finally realized that) so the technology is going to be improving at a much faster rate. I would love to see more car sharing in the States and electric ride sharing taxis. Both things are pretty popular here and I've found them to be really easy to use. We went down to one car about 2 years ago and because of car sharing and electric ride sharing taxis I actually haven't missed having a second car at all. Of course this is really a city solution as you wouldn't have enough vehicles in sparsely populated areas but there are a lot of cities in the U.S. where I think they would work well. ETA: Just read that Sharenow (one of our bigger car sharing networks) left the U.S. in 2020 and said one of the biggest issues is that the necessary infrastructure to support new technology like electric cars was really lacking. I'm hoping 5 years from now that's not the case anymore.
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Post by blurnette989 on Jun 13, 2021 12:26:20 GMT -6
How they make the batteries for ev has to change. The chinese do a lot of damage to their country to dig up the lithium and other metals needed to get these things. I think eventually we will run out of those rare earth metals. Then we burn a lot of fossil fuels to move those metals around to make the batteries and get the batteries to the car manufacturers. And of course the batteries are charged by electricity and most of our electricity in tge us comes from fossil fuels. If all gas burning cars are replaced with ev, we still will cause a carbon footprint from the increased need for electricity in the power grid and burn even more fossil fuels. We have to invent a better battery, because solar power is also stored in those type of batteries. . I also think the lack of investment in infrastructure also doesn't incentivise manufacturers to actually improve the technology. I do agree we have to improve battery production substantially, and I think like adelbert we will start seeing it as markets grow.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Jun 13, 2021 12:36:25 GMT -6
How they make the batteries for ev has to change. The chinese do a lot of damage to their country to dig up the lithium and other metals needed to get these things. I think eventually we will run out of those rare earth metals. Then we burn a lot of fossil fuels to move those metals around to make the batteries and get the batteries to the car manufacturers. And of course the batteries are charged by electricity and most of our electricity in tge us comes from fossil fuels. If all gas burning cars are replaced with ev, we still will cause a carbon footprint from the increased need for electricity in the power grid and burn even more fossil fuels. We have to invent a better battery, because solar power is also stored in those type of batteries. I agree with the batteries but on the power, we have such an opportunity that we are missing with solar. Especially out west. Almost every new parking lot here is required to have solar panels but I don’t see that when I go outside the Bay Area or up to southern Oregon which has just as much sun as we do these days.
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origami
Amethyst
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Post by origami on Jun 13, 2021 12:54:44 GMT -6
How they make the batteries for ev has to change. The chinese do a lot of damage to their country to dig up the lithium and other metals needed to get these things. I think eventually we will run out of those rare earth metals. Then we burn a lot of fossil fuels to move those metals around to make the batteries and get the batteries to the car manufacturers. And of course the batteries are charged by electricity and most of our electricity in tge us comes from fossil fuels. If all gas burning cars are replaced with ev, we still will cause a carbon footprint from the increased need for electricity in the power grid and burn even more fossil fuels. We have to invent a better battery, because solar power is also stored in those type of batteries. I agree with the batteries but on the power, we have such an opportunity that we are missing with solar. Especially out west. Almost every new parking lot here is required to have solar panels but I don’t see that when I go outside the Bay Area or up to southern Oregon which has just as much sun as we do these days. I do foresee green energy getting more bipartisan buy in in the PNW. It's where the money is going and in my experience growing up here, caring deeply about the environment and the future of it is a non partisan issue. Even though oregon state elected GOP have been doing that carbon tax walkout the last few years, I do see green moving forward. Its like the timber industry. Our forested lands were really suffering 30 years ago but that paradigm has shifted significantly in my lifetime as the timber industry realized if they over forested it would hurt them in the long run. Solar and wind are taking off here like never before which gives me some hope. The fires of the last few years have really spooked a lot of hold outs that we need to pay attention to our climate.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Jun 13, 2021 13:05:54 GMT -6
I agree with the batteries but on the power, we have such an opportunity that we are missing with solar. Especially out west. Almost every new parking lot here is required to have solar panels but I don’t see that when I go outside the Bay Area or up to southern Oregon which has just as much sun as we do these days. I do foresee green energy getting more bipartisan buy in in the PNW. It's where the money is going and in my experience growing up here, caring deeply about the environment and the future of it is a non partisan issue. Even though oregon state elected GOP have been doing that carbon tax walkout the last few years, I do see green moving forward. Its like the timber industry. Our forested lands were really suffering 30 years ago but that paradigm has shifted significantly in my lifetime as the timber industry realized if they over forested it would hurt them in the long run. Solar and wind are taking off here like never before which gives me some hope. The fires of the last few years have really spooked a lot of hold outs that we need to pay attention to our climate. I’m hoping when they rebuild in the Phoenix area after the fire last year they focus on solar. But it’s such an economically challenged area it’s hard to make change.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jun 13, 2021 16:03:52 GMT -6
On another topic - I started listening to a new podcast that people might be interested in. It’s called On Our Watch and it’s a look at how police investigate themselves. It’s based in CA because there was a law passed in 2018 releasing police records that gave reporters a treasure trove to comb through. There are only three episodes so far but they were very interesting. Lots of TW for rape, assault, gun violence so be careful.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 18:28:51 GMT -6
I just got home from the bathhouse for the first time in, you know, pre-pandemic times. It’s reduced capacity and mask required every except actually in the pool. I felt very safe but also just weird being unmasked around strangers.
Back at the beginning of the lockdown I had bought a 10-visit pass to support them (I love this place) so I’m going to go monthly until I run out. Hopefully I’ll get more used to being around people and can relax more. In any case it was nice to get out of the house all by myself.
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