addymac
Emerald
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Post by addymac on Jan 24, 2021 12:00:45 GMT -6
loony McBennyThe thing is all the trials and studies just looked at if you became symptomatic and then tested for covid with the vaccine. They didn’t test you if you didnt have symptoms. So they don’t know yet if you can still get it and just have no symptoms. So right now the vaccine essentially makes you an asymptomatic spreader. You will have no symptoms if you’re in the 95% group, so it lessens the load on hospitals but you can still get it and pass it on. That’s why you still need to be super safe, if you care about other people that can’t get the vaccine. If you don’t, then have at it I guess. That is my understanding after a thorough discussion with some doctors and research of the trials. That isn't how vaccines work. Well it’s how this one is working
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
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Post by McBenny on Jan 24, 2021 12:07:12 GMT -6
This isn't what I have been told at all. You get 2 shots to be fully vaccinated. It brings your risk lower of catching it. Nothing about lessening your symptoms. The goal is not lessening symptoms. The goal is less people getting it period. You can still be vaccinated and get it just like flu shot. No one knows if they will or not be that person so you still should practice mask wearing etc. Per the epidemiologists. loony McBennyThe thing is all the trials and studies just looked at if you became symptomatic and then tested for covid with the vaccine. They didn’t test you if you didnt have symptoms. So they don’t know yet if you can still get it and just have no symptoms. So right now the vaccine essentially makes you an asymptomatic spreader. You will have no symptoms if you’re in the 95% group, so it lessens the load on hospitals but you can still get it and pass it on. That’s why you still need to be super safe, if you care about other people that can’t get the vaccine. If you don’t, then have at it I guess. That is my understanding after a thorough discussion with some doctors and research of the trials. yes that part as well. I was just taken aback the less symptoms narrative. The goal is less people getting it and spreading it.
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Post by ironcorgi on Jan 24, 2021 12:11:39 GMT -6
That isn't how vaccines work. Well it’s how this one is working I haven't heard of it making you an asymptomatic spreader. I also haven't heard of it NOT granting immunity. Could you be part of the 5% it doesn't work on, catch covid, and be asymptotic? Yes, but that's a lot of events that would first have to happen. My mom was vaccinated and is awaiting her second dose. Her endocrinologist told her that she would be 60% immune two weeks after the first shot and 90-95% immune after the second shot. She approved her to go back to work at the end of February once immunity takes hold. The vaccine not granting immunity would have been mentioned in the discussion with the doctor because any little thing causes type 1 diabetics to have massive fluctuations in their blood sugar levels, including a virus she catches, but has relatively mild symptoms to. Minor ear infections have caused her to go into DKA and be put in the ICU. www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html
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addymac
Emerald
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Post by addymac on Jan 24, 2021 12:19:25 GMT -6
Well it’s how this one is working I haven't heard of it making you an asymptomatic spreader. I also haven't heard of it NOT granting immunity. Could you be part of the 5% it doesn't work on, catch covid, and be asymptotic? Yes, but that's a lot of events that would first have to happen. My mom was vaccinated and is awaiting her second dose. Her endocrinologist told her that she would be 60% immune two weeks after the first shot and 90-95% immune after the second shot. She approved her to go back to work at the end of February once immunity takes hold. The vaccine not granting immunity would have been mentioned in the discussion with the doctor because any little thing causes type 1 diabetics to have massive fluctuations in their blood sugar levels, including a virus she catches, but has relatively mild symptoms to. Minor ear infections have caused her to go into DKA and be put in the ICU. www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.htmlYou’re not 95% immune from it. You have a 95% chance of being immune to symptoms. Pfizer and Moderna say that about 95% / 94.1% of people who get the vaccine are protected from becoming seriously ill with the virus.
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AmyG
Ruby
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Post by AmyG on Jan 24, 2021 12:26:22 GMT -6
I imagine the vaccine manufacturers have data for how many actually did not get covid after being vaccinated during the trials.
But they arent saying that x% of vaccinated people didn't catch covid after being vaccinated.
They are saying 95% didn't develop symptoms.
Is the data that of the people who got vaccine, also tested positive 95% developed no symptoms?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 12:35:33 GMT -6
I haven't heard of it making you an asymptomatic spreader. I also haven't heard of it NOT granting immunity. Could you be part of the 5% it doesn't work on, catch covid, and be asymptotic? Yes, but that's a lot of events that would first have to happen. My mom was vaccinated and is awaiting her second dose. Her endocrinologist told her that she would be 60% immune two weeks after the first shot and 90-95% immune after the second shot. She approved her to go back to work at the end of February once immunity takes hold. The vaccine not granting immunity would have been mentioned in the discussion with the doctor because any little thing causes type 1 diabetics to have massive fluctuations in their blood sugar levels, including a virus she catches, but has relatively mild symptoms to. Minor ear infections have caused her to go into DKA and be put in the ICU. www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.htmlYou’re not 95% immune from it. You have a 95% chance of being immune to symptoms. Pfizer and Moderna say that about 95% / 94.1% of people who get the vaccine are protected from becoming seriously ill with the virus. Then herd immunity wouldn't even be a factor if we were all walking super spreaders and that's exactly what Dr. Fauci says we are working towards with the vaccine.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 12:39:56 GMT -6
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kmkd
Amethyst
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Post by kmkd on Jan 24, 2021 12:43:26 GMT -6
I haven't heard of it making you an asymptomatic spreader. I also haven't heard of it NOT granting immunity. Could you be part of the 5% it doesn't work on, catch covid, and be asymptotic? Yes, but that's a lot of events that would first have to happen. My mom was vaccinated and is awaiting her second dose. Her endocrinologist told her that she would be 60% immune two weeks after the first shot and 90-95% immune after the second shot. She approved her to go back to work at the end of February once immunity takes hold. The vaccine not granting immunity would have been mentioned in the discussion with the doctor because any little thing causes type 1 diabetics to have massive fluctuations in their blood sugar levels, including a virus she catches, but has relatively mild symptoms to. Minor ear infections have caused her to go into DKA and be put in the ICU. www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.htmlYou’re not 95% immune from it. You have a 95% chance of being immune to symptoms. Pfizer and Moderna say that about 95% / 94.1% of people who get the vaccine are protected from becoming seriously ill with the virus. The Moderna data says that it’s “94.1% effective at preventing lab-confirmed COVID-19 illness.” It’s not just symptoms, they tested them as well.
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cribs
Sapphire
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Post by cribs on Jan 24, 2021 13:13:57 GMT -6
You’re not 95% immune from it. You have a 95% chance of being immune to symptoms. Pfizer and Moderna say that about 95% / 94.1% of people who get the vaccine are protected from becoming seriously ill with the virus. The Moderna data says that it’s “94.1% effective at preventing lab-confirmed COVID-19 illness.” It’s not just symptoms, they tested them as well. I'm in a trial and they are testing us at the second visit without symptoms. We are also to be tested with symptoms. My understanding is that they aren't getting it all but the unknown is while the antibodies are preventing you from getting covid you may still be able to give off the infection.
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thatgolfb
Unicorn
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 24, 2021 14:15:27 GMT -6
loony and addymac have said what I know to be accurate about the covid vaccines. My understanding is that the trials were aimed at measuring safety moreso than prevention of spread. Not that prevention of spread isn’t happening, it’s just that they haven’t specifically studied it yet (although I assume they currently are doing this). So yes the 95% is prevention of symptomatic covid and I should have said that in my post. My understanding is that it does indeed lower severity but not necessarily transmission. So far.
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thatgolfb
Unicorn
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 24, 2021 14:16:22 GMT -6
This isn't what I have been told at all. You get 2 shots to be fully vaccinated. It brings your risk lower of catching it. Nothing about lessening your symptoms. The goal is not lessening symptoms. The goal is less people getting it period. You can still be vaccinated and get it just like flu shot. No one knows if they will or not be that person so you still should practice mask wearing etc. Per the epidemiologists. Your understanding is what I've been told/read/heard as well. This is the first I've been told we're just lessening severity and are continuing to asymptomatic spread 🤔 Yep addymac and loony are correct. This is one reason people with both doses still need to wear masks.
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thatgolfb
Unicorn
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 24, 2021 14:18:39 GMT -6
This says it may protect people around you from getting sick, as well as prevent you from becoming ill. And because we don't know how long immunity lasts and the fact it's not 100% accurate with immunity, you're encouraged to continue to distance and mask. Which is exactly what McBenny and I are saying. 🤔 The operative word in your first sentence is “may.”
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thatgolfb
Unicorn
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 24, 2021 14:26:06 GMT -6
You’re not 95% immune from it. You have a 95% chance of being immune to symptoms. Pfizer and Moderna say that about 95% / 94.1% of people who get the vaccine are protected from becoming seriously ill with the virus. Then herd immunity wouldn't even be a factor if we were all walking super spreaders and that's exactly what Dr. Fauci says we are working towards with the vaccine. And literally no one has said that it is statistically likely that all vaccinated or even most vaccinated people are super spreaders. Hyperbole isn’t helping you here. They just don’t know. One big issue with the studies is that they didn’t reliably test people for covid infections unless they developed symptoms during the trials. So how would we know? We don’t. It’s possible none of those people contracted covid during that time. I wish they had tested. But testing was and still is hard to come by for a lot of people, so they didn’t.
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thatgolfb
Unicorn
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 24, 2021 14:26:50 GMT -6
My gosh at “that’s not how vaccines work.” I know how vaccines work. And how addymac described it is how they *know* this one is working *at this point.*
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kmkd
Amethyst
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Post by kmkd on Jan 24, 2021 14:27:22 GMT -6
loony and addymac have said what I know to be accurate about the covid vaccines. My understanding is that the trials were aimed at measuring safety moreso than prevention of spread. Not that prevention of spread isn’t happening, it’s just that they haven’t specifically studied it yet (although I assume they currently are doing this). So yes the 95% is prevention of symptomatic covid and I should have said that in my post. My understanding is that it does indeed lower severity but not necessarily transmission. So far. Agreed. I think we’re all talking about 2 different things, unless I’m misunderstanding. It does not necessarily lower transmission. It does lower infection by prevention.
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thatgolfb
Unicorn
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 24, 2021 14:31:21 GMT -6
You’re not 95% immune from it. You have a 95% chance of being immune to symptoms. Pfizer and Moderna say that about 95% / 94.1% of people who get the vaccine are protected from becoming seriously ill with the virus. The Moderna data says that it’s “94.1% effective at preventing lab-confirmed COVID-19 illness.” It’s not just symptoms, they tested them as well. Hmm I heard from people in one of the trials that they weren’t regularly testing everyone that was asymptomatic. But maybe it was Pfizer?
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kmkd
Amethyst
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Post by kmkd on Jan 24, 2021 14:33:16 GMT -6
The Moderna data says that it’s “94.1% effective at preventing lab-confirmed COVID-19 illness.” It’s not just symptoms, they tested them as well. Hmm I heard from people in one of the trials that they weren’t regularly testing everyone that was asymptomatic. But maybe it was Pfizer? Of course it won’t let me post my screenshot but it definitely says lab confirmed illness. That’s for Moderna specifically though.
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thatgolfb
Unicorn
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 24, 2021 14:35:10 GMT -6
Hmm I heard from people in one of the trials that they weren’t regularly testing everyone that was asymptomatic. But maybe it was Pfizer? Of course it won’t let me post my screenshot but it definitely says lab confirmed illness. That’s for Moderna specifically though. I believe that it says that, but it’s also possible they weren’t testing everyone regularly, even with that wording. If they were asymptomatic they may not have tested. I don’t know, I’m just being skeptical lol.
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AmyG
Ruby
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Post by AmyG on Jan 24, 2021 14:41:31 GMT -6
Part of the issue is that in none of the studied it was a true test of does the vaccine prevent infection. That would be tested if they gave you the vaccine, and then exposed you to an infectious level of covid virus in a lab setting, and then tested everyone that was exposed to that level of covid, to show that in 95% of the time it did not infect you cause you had the vaccine.
They are wording things very carefully, but that's often confusing
in some of the studies time line, they were started and continued in the wild, in communities where there was limited access to daily/very frequent testing to ensure you were never asymptomatically positive for covid after getting the virus
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 14:56:39 GMT -6
loony and addymac have said what I know to be accurate about the covid vaccines. My understanding is that the trials were aimed at measuring safety moreso than prevention of spread. Not that prevention of spread isn’t happening, it’s just that they haven’t specifically studied it yet (although I assume they currently are doing this). So yes the 95% is prevention of symptomatic covid and I should have said that in my post. My understanding is that it does indeed lower severity but not necessarily transmission. So far. Agreed. I think we’re all talking about 2 different things, unless I’m misunderstanding. It does not necessarily lower transmission. It does lower infection by prevention. This discussion started because someone said they feel guilty going to the gym even though they're vaccinated. And I said they shouldn't feel guilty because they're taking steps to protect themselves and others. And then you went on to say those with vaccines "are essentially spreading covid asymptomatically" and that's what myself and others are disagreeing with you on. It's preventing infection, at a 95% rate. Yes, the person going to the gym could be the 5% but if she also wears her mask, distances and washes her hands, going to thr gym isn't something I'm wagging my finger at anymore once someone is properly vaccinated.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 15:06:42 GMT -6
Then herd immunity wouldn't even be a factor if we were all walking super spreaders and that's exactly what Dr. Fauci says we are working towards with the vaccine. And literally no one has said that it is statistically likely that all vaccinated or even most vaccinated people are super spreaders. Hyperbole isn’t helping you here. They just don’t know. One big issue with the studies is that they didn’t reliably test people for covid infections unless they developed symptoms during the trials. So how would we know? We don’t. It’s possible none of those people contracted covid during that time. I wish they had tested. But testing was and still is hard to come by for a lot of people, so they didn’t. I didn't say super spreaders to be hyperbolic. addymac literally said those with vaccines are just walking around spreading it everywhere.
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kmkd
Amethyst
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Post by kmkd on Jan 24, 2021 15:19:52 GMT -6
Agreed. I think we’re all talking about 2 different things, unless I’m misunderstanding. It does not necessarily lower transmission. It does lower infection by prevention. This discussion started because someone said they feel guilty going to the gym even though they're vaccinated. And I said they shouldn't feel guilty because they're taking steps to protect themselves and others. And then you went on to say those with vaccines "are essentially spreading covid asymptomatically" and that's what myself and others are disagreeing with you on. It's preventing infection, at a 95% rate. Yes, the person going to the gym could be the 5% but if she also wears her mask, distances and washes her hands, going to thr gym isn't something I'm wagging my finger at anymore once someone is properly vaccinated. I didn’t say that.
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kmkd
Amethyst
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Post by kmkd on Jan 24, 2021 15:20:54 GMT -6
loony McBennyThe thing is all the trials and studies just looked at if you became symptomatic and then tested for covid with the vaccine. They didn’t test you if you didnt have symptoms. So they don’t know yet if you can still get it and just have no symptoms. So right now the vaccine essentially makes you an asymptomatic spreader. You will have no symptoms if you’re in the 95% group, so it lessens the load on hospitals but you can still get it and pass it on. That’s why you still need to be super safe, if you care about other people that can’t get the vaccine. If you don’t, then have at it I guess. That is my understanding after a thorough discussion with some doctors and research of the trials. I think the line "the vaccine essentially makes you an asymptomatic spreader" is causing some of the confusion here. It *might*, because we don't know enough yet, but it's not a definite, right? Like, you don't get the vaccine and then instantly become an asymptomatic spreader. I realize this is semantics, and I personally just put a "might" in there and koko'd. But I also get that this is a really emotional topic for people and semantics might matter. Yes, I agree with this. This what I was speaking about.
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thatgolfb
Unicorn
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 24, 2021 15:21:03 GMT -6
And literally no one has said that it is statistically likely that all vaccinated or even most vaccinated people are super spreaders. Hyperbole isn’t helping you here. They just don’t know. One big issue with the studies is that they didn’t reliably test people for covid infections unless they developed symptoms during the trials. So how would we know? We don’t. It’s possible none of those people contracted covid during that time. I wish they had tested. But testing was and still is hard to come by for a lot of people, so they didn’t. I didn't say super spreaders to be hyperbolic. addymac literally said those with vaccines are just walking around spreading it everywhere. I looked back and she said you become an asymptomatic spreader (she never said super spreader or “spreading it everywhere”), but this part is unknown. We don’t know how much people with vaccines still spread it. We have to assume that people can still spread it after getting the vaccine. Hence why going to indoor spaces probably still isn’t the best idea after two doses, especially because you don’t know the vaccination status of everyone else there.
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cribs
Sapphire
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Post by cribs on Jan 24, 2021 15:22:02 GMT -6
I'm wearing a mask forever. So. My face is much warmer these days
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kmkd
Amethyst
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Post by kmkd on Jan 24, 2021 15:24:31 GMT -6
My face is much warmer these days Plus it's easier to hide my "what the fuck is wrong with you" responses. Oh, no, that comes from my eyebrows.
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thatgolfb
Unicorn
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 24, 2021 15:26:23 GMT -6
loony McBennyThe thing is all the trials and studies just looked at if you became symptomatic and then tested for covid with the vaccine. They didn’t test you if you didnt have symptoms. So they don’t know yet if you can still get it and just have no symptoms. So right now the vaccine essentially makes you an asymptomatic spreader. You will have no symptoms if you’re in the 95% group, so it lessens the load on hospitals but you can still get it and pass it on. That’s why you still need to be super safe, if you care about other people that can’t get the vaccine. If you don’t, then have at it I guess. That is my understanding after a thorough discussion with some doctors and research of the trials. I think the line "the vaccine essentially makes you an asymptomatic spreader" is causing some of the confusion here. It *might*, because we don't know enough yet, but it's not a definite, right? Like, you don't get the vaccine and then instantly become an asymptomatic spreader. I realize this is semantics, and I personally just put a "might" in there and koko'd. But I also get that this is a really emotional topic for people and semantics might matter. She did say “essentially” which I took to mean “for all intents and purposes” like you should just assume that’s the case. But I can see how it could be confusing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 15:29:50 GMT -6
This discussion started because someone said they feel guilty going to the gym even though they're vaccinated. And I said they shouldn't feel guilty because they're taking steps to protect themselves and others. And then you went on to say those with vaccines "are essentially spreading covid asymptomatically" and that's what myself and others are disagreeing with you on. It's preventing infection, at a 95% rate. Yes, the person going to the gym could be the 5% but if she also wears her mask, distances and washes her hands, going to thr gym isn't something I'm wagging my finger at anymore once someone is properly vaccinated. I didn’t say that. Oh my goodness I'm sorry. I somehow thought I was quoting addymac. My mistake I'm sorry
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addymac
Emerald
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Post by addymac on Jan 24, 2021 16:00:49 GMT -6
Sorry I just took a nap. Yes I do apologize for my use of “essentially”. I didn’t realize that word was read so differently until thatgolfb wrote how she read it vs how kmkd read it. Golf has since repeated and explained things again so I’ll just go back to napping now. Trust I was so sad when I realized for Pfizer at least, they didn’t test people with no symptoms. And why they said 95% of people who get the vaccine are protected from becoming seriously ill with the virus vs not getting it at all. They just don’t know yet. This unknown is why I can’t hop on a plane to go visit my parents whom I haven’t seen in 13 months. The point of the vaccine ideally would be complete immunity of it so when you come up against the virus it just dies with you. But this immunity is important too- we’ve seen what happens when the hospitals are overrun- aside from not knowing how to treat CV last March, NYC hospitals has no space or staff- if none of the staff gets sick from CV that’s huge. Like if every person in a country got the vaccine and there were 100 people, and only 5 got sick, and let’s say they got the worst symptoms and died, then the virus could effectively be gone. Or it becomes less of a worry. Like the Measles (before the outbreak).
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piratecat
Diamond
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Post by piratecat on Jan 24, 2021 16:31:08 GMT -6
This says it may protect people around you from getting sick, as well as prevent you from becoming ill. And because we don't know how long immunity lasts and the fact it's not 100% accurate with immunity, you're encouraged to continue to distance and mask. Which is exactly what McBenny and I are saying. 🤔 The operative word in your first sentence is “may.” Yea I’ve read/heard they “hope” it will reduce transmission but there’s just not enough data to know for sure. Every health official is saying to continue to wear masks and take precautions even after being vaccinated, at least until we know more.
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